Author Topic: Ukraine 2  (Read 101679 times)

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Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #725 on: May 21, 2022, 08:30:47 pm »

Giant Artillery Opens Fire As Russia Goes On The Attack In Donbas
David Axe, Forbes Staff - 8h ago

Fighting has sharply escalated in eastern Ukraine’s Donbas region. Both sides are bringing in more and heavier artillery, adding to the carnage.

But it’s the Russians who have the biggest guns and mortars—and who are most willing to shoot indiscriminately. “In the coming weeks, Russia is likely to continue to rely heavily on massed artillery strikes as it attempts to regain momentum in its advance in the Donbas,” the U.K. Defence Ministry warned on Tuesday.

The Russian army for weeks has been trying to position forces for an operation it realistically can complete. Earlier in the war, the Kremlin’s aims were maximalist—capture Kyiv, advance across the Donbas and also cut off Ukraine from the Black Sea. But after the Russian army suffered heavy casualties in the abortive assault on Kyiv, Russian leaders pivoted.

Pulling its forces back from Kyiv and Ukraine’s second city Kharkiv, Russian leadership focused its efforts on Donbas. And not all of Donbas, but rather one small city: Severodonetsk, which anchors a pocket of Ukrainian forces south of Russian-occupied Izium and north of the town of Popasna.

more
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/giant-artillery-opens-fire-as-russia-goes-on-the-attack-in-donbas/ar-AAXyvrt?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b27a198bbc7045778e399c1e6ed9e6e5
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #726 on: May 21, 2022, 08:50:04 pm »
I am GUESSING that fighter-bombers from both sides are not being utilized to take out the artillery?

Don't really remember seeing much reporting about air strikes.
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Offline DB

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #727 on: May 21, 2022, 09:38:05 pm »
"Indiscriminate" artillery isn't very effective at taking out enemy soldiers/weapons. It is essentially a terror weapon against civilians. If Ukraine can acquire and hit their targets, they'll take out the Russian soldiers/weapons in far greater numbers.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #728 on: May 21, 2022, 10:55:50 pm »
"Indiscriminate" artillery isn't very effective at taking out enemy soldiers/weapons. It is essentially a terror weapon against civilians. If Ukraine can acquire and hit their targets, they'll take out the Russian soldiers/weapons in far greater numbers.
Counter-battery radar...(drones!)
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #729 on: May 21, 2022, 11:09:03 pm »
"Indiscriminate" artillery isn't very effective at taking out enemy soldiers/weapons. It is essentially a terror weapon against civilians. If Ukraine can acquire and hit their targets, they'll take out the Russian soldiers/weapons in far greater numbers.

@DB

That is HorseHillary squared. Never been under artillery fire,have you?

Or even watched many war movies from any war from the Revolutionary War to the last war?

Artillery fire is NOT accurate fire like rifle fire,but it doesn't have to be because when the shell hits and explodes,it sends out shrapnel to shred anyone within range.

The modern  155mm and 175mm arty pieces are a LOT more accurate than the old "smooth bore cannon" balls were,and a hell of a lot more deadly.

You might as well try to claim that bombing isn't effective. Try telling that to someone who has been bombed,or has never been inserted into a target hit by arty fire or bombers to do a "BDA" (Bomb Damage Assessment").

Granted,even the mightly 175's don't do the damage the 500 lb B-52 bombs make,but it is still pretty damn impressive,as well as scary. Sometimes enemy soldiers even die from concussion created by a nearby blast.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2022, 11:13:36 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline DB

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #730 on: May 21, 2022, 11:49:22 pm »
@DB

That is HorseHillary squared. Never been under artillery fire,have you?

Or even watched many war movies from any war from the Revolutionary War to the last war?

Artillery fire is NOT accurate fire like rifle fire,but it doesn't have to be because when the shell hits and explodes,it sends out shrapnel to shred anyone within range.

The modern  155mm and 175mm arty pieces are a LOT more accurate than the old "smooth bore cannon" balls were,and a hell of a lot more deadly.

You might as well try to claim that bombing isn't effective. Try telling that to someone who has been bombed,or has never been inserted into a target hit by arty fire or bombers to do a "BDA" (Bomb Damage Assessment").

Granted,even the mightly 175's don't do the damage the 500 lb B-52 bombs make,but it is still pretty damn impressive,as well as scary. Sometimes enemy soldiers even die from concussion created by a nearby blast.

The subject was "Indiscriminate" artillery fire. From 20 miles away if you are not real close you miss the enemy. That isn't to say you can't level a town. But the odds of hitting enemy weapons is thin. Ukraine on the other hand is using highly accurate weapons that can take those positions out, if their location is known, due to being highly accurate.

Offline Elderberry

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #731 on: May 21, 2022, 11:59:02 pm »
Putin complains about barrage of cyberattacks

https://www.navytimes.com/flashpoints/2022/05/20/putin-complains-about-barrage-of-cyberattacks/

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MOSCOW — Russian President Vladimir Putin says his country has faced a barrage of cyberattacks from the West amid the invasion of Ukraine but has successfully fended them off.

Speaking Friday to members of Russia’s Security Council, Putin noted that “the challenges in this area have become even more pressing, serious and extensive.”

He charged that “an outright aggression has been unleashed against Russia, a war has been waged in the information space.”

Putin added that “the cyber-aggression against us, the same as the attack on Russia by sanctions in general, has failed.”

More at link.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #732 on: May 22, 2022, 12:06:45 am »
If they have failed,what is he bitching about?

Is "Putin" a Russian word that means "Biden" in English?
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #733 on: May 22, 2022, 12:12:38 am »
Putin's leadership is unraveling as he takes regular breaks for medical treatment and is constantly surrounded by doctors, says British ex-spy

https://www.businessinsider.com/putin-constantly-surrounded-by-doctors-kremlin-in-chaos-former-spy-2022-5

Quote
•   Putin has to break from meetings to take medical treatment continually, said one former spy.

•   Christopher Steele told British talk radio station LBC of "increasing disarray in the Kremlin."

•   Steele's comments follow weeks of rumors about the Russian president's health.

President Vladimir Putin's grip on power is fading, and he has to take regular breaks for medical treatment, according to former British spy Christopher Steele.

"Our understanding is that there's increasing disarray in the Kremlin and chaos," Steele said in an interview with British talk radio station LBC on Wednesday.

Steele is a former MI6 operative who worked for many years in Russia, including heading up the spy agency's Russia desk for three years.

He told LBC: "There's no clear political leadership coming from Putin, who is increasingly ill, and in military terms, the structures of command and so on are not functioning as they should."

He did not cite his sources but said he was "fairly confident" of his claims. Putin's top spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov, has repeatedly denied any issues.

More at link.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #734 on: May 22, 2022, 12:33:03 am »
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[Putin] charged that “an outright aggression has been unleashed against Russia, a war has been waged in the information space.”

Outright aggression against Russia?  lol

Maybe if Russia withdrew all of its troops from Ukraine, then they could complain about outright aggression.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #735 on: May 22, 2022, 12:39:56 am »
"Indiscriminate" artillery isn't very effective at taking out enemy soldiers/weapons. It is essentially a terror weapon against civilians. If Ukraine can acquire and hit their targets, they'll take out the Russian soldiers/weapons in far greater numbers.

What Russia lacks in accuracy, it makes up for in numbers.  And by "indiscriminate", it means Russia is willing to shell anything.

If the current battle is reduced to a war of attrition through artillery, Russia has the advantage because they are destroying Ukrainian infrastructure while not losing Russian infrastructure.  At some point, Ukraine is going to have to take the offensive.  And that will require large units of armor, infantry, and mechanized infantry.  Izyum and Kherson are two objectives that Ukraine needs to capture.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Offline DB

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #736 on: May 22, 2022, 12:57:04 am »
Putin complains about barrage of cyberattacks

https://www.navytimes.com/flashpoints/2022/05/20/putin-complains-about-barrage-of-cyberattacks/

When this whole thing started there were many threats of Russian cyberattacks. Many here were afraid of the threats. It was all hot air. The Russians bit off more than they can chew...

Offline DB

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #737 on: May 22, 2022, 12:58:32 am »
What Russia lacks in accuracy, it makes up for in numbers.  And by "indiscriminate", it means Russia is willing to shell anything.

If the current battle is reduced to a war of attrition through artillery, Russia has the advantage because they are destroying Ukrainian infrastructure while not losing Russian infrastructure.  At some point, Ukraine is going to have to take the offensive.  And that will require large units of armor, infantry, and mechanized infantry.  Izyum and Kherson are two objectives that Ukraine needs to capture.

But with accuracy many of those can be taken out over time. It is likely that numerous countries are providing satellite intel providing high accuracy locations of where these Russian weapons are.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #738 on: May 22, 2022, 01:04:09 am »
Russians have turned to a devastatingly random tactic in the Donbas - and they're still on the march

Alex Crawford  |  21 May 2022  |  22:03, UK

Carpet bombing is indiscriminate - devastatingly destructive and utterly random.


But if you're an advancing army, it's a deadly and effective tactic, and it's being used mercilessly against the townspeople of Soledar.

The town in eastern Ukraine's Donbas has seen its topography alter dramatically in the last 72 hours as the Russians intensify their assault on the region.

There are now craters and huge pitted holes in the town's parks and high streets, and outside multiple apartment blocks.

Offices, shops, the main administration centre, the sanatorium and residential homes have all been left holed and gutted.

And the whole time we are in the town, there's a constant rumble of war: grad rockets (Russian weapons) going out, grad rockets coming in.  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-russians-have-turned-to-a-devastatingly-random-tactic-in-the-donbas-and-theyre-still-on-the-march-12618536
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"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline DB

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #739 on: May 22, 2022, 01:27:14 am »
Russians have turned to a devastatingly random tactic in the Donbas - and they're still on the march

Alex Crawford  |  21 May 2022  |  22:03, UK

Carpet bombing is indiscriminate - devastatingly destructive and utterly random.


But if you're an advancing army, it's a deadly and effective tactic, and it's being used mercilessly against the townspeople of Soledar.

The town in eastern Ukraine's Donbas has seen its topography alter dramatically in the last 72 hours as the Russians intensify their assault on the region.

There are now craters and huge pitted holes in the town's parks and high streets, and outside multiple apartment blocks.

Offices, shops, the main administration centre, the sanatorium and residential homes have all been left holed and gutted.

And the whole time we are in the town, there's a constant rumble of war: grad rockets (Russian weapons) going out, grad rockets coming in.  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-russians-have-turned-to-a-devastatingly-random-tactic-in-the-donbas-and-theyre-still-on-the-march-12618536

So that's what "liberation" looks like Donbas...

Offline bilo

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #740 on: May 22, 2022, 02:04:38 am »
Good guys - Ukraine
Bad  guys  - Russia

It should become apparent once one checks the veracity of the claims that have been coming from Russia for the past ten years.  Take the "Azov Battalion" narrative, for example.  A militia unit was founded as a response to a 2014  Russian invasion, and was led by a political extremist.  By the end of that year, that leader was expelled, entering the field of politics instead.  The "Azov Battalion" was then incorporated into the Ukrainian National Guard, being given the new designation of "Azov Regiment". Under the new authority of the Ukrainian Military, the unit ceased being a political militia.

Yet Russian propaganda has continued for eight years, painting a false narrative on its current status and designation.  That same false Russian propaganda has littered these boards for the past three months.   And no matter how many times that propaganda is exposed and discredited for the lies they are, it keeps getting posted.

Hope that helps.

I think most Ukrainians revere the members of this regiment that held out against overwhelming odds for 3 months.
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Offline bilo

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #741 on: May 22, 2022, 02:13:18 am »
Putin ally says the Ukraine war is a REHEARSAL for a bigger conflict between Russia and NATO and a 'learning experience'

By DAVID AVERRE FOR MAILONLINE
20 May 2022

A Russian political science professor has claimed the war in Ukraine could simply be a 'rehearsal' for a bigger conflict, allowing Russia's military to test and compare its firepower with that of NATO.

Alexei Fenenko, an associate professor at Moscow State University's school of world politics and a research fellow at the Institute of International Security Studies, made the incredible claim yesterday during a talk show on Kremlin-controlled TV channel Russia One.

'I think the war in Ukraine... is a rehearsal for a possible larger conflict in the future. We are testing our weapons against those of NATO, we will find out how much stronger our weapons are than theirs,' the professor declared.

'It could be a good learning experience for future conflicts,' he added, before talk show host Olga Skabeyeva interjected: 'It's a scary experiment.'

The outlandish statement is the latest example of the Kremlin's attempts to control the narrative surrounding its invasion of Ukraine, in which Putin's forces have suffered huge losses and are coming under counter-attacks along the eastern front in the Kharkiv, Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10837679/Putin-ally-says-Ukraine-war-REHEARSAL-bigger-conflict-Russia-NATO.html

We should redouble our efforts to train and supply the Ukrainian military. They have been heroic in defense of their country. Also, we should be concerned because Russia's incompetence has made it clear that in a conventional war with NATO Russia would be beaten badly and the last resort for them would be to escalate by using nuclear weapons. IOW, we really need to stop Russia in Ukraine.
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Offline bilo

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #742 on: May 22, 2022, 02:22:32 am »
Since little or none of the latest $40 gazillion Congress has gifted Ukraine will go for the stated purpose of helping Ukraine, maybe the money should be managed by Samaritan's Purse, who actually spend money as advertised.
Quote
Franklin Graham
@Franklin_Graham
.@SamaritansPurse has airlifted 101 metric tons of medical supplies to Ukraine since the conflict began. Continue to pray for those our teams and medical staff are helping in Jesus’ Name.

9:37 AM · May 21, 2022

Thanks for posting this. It makes me feel great for donating to Samaritan's Purse.
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Offline bilo

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #743 on: May 22, 2022, 02:28:54 am »
Putin's leadership is unraveling as he takes regular breaks for medical treatment and is constantly surrounded by doctors, says British ex-spy

https://www.businessinsider.com/putin-constantly-surrounded-by-doctors-kremlin-in-chaos-former-spy-2022-5

As much as I would love to hear that this is true, I wouldn't believe anything coming out of Christopher Steeles mouth.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #744 on: May 22, 2022, 02:53:43 am »
I think most Ukrainians revere the members of this regiment that held out against overwhelming odds for 3 months.

A national guard regiment.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #745 on: May 22, 2022, 07:27:11 am »
@DB

That is HorseHillary squared. Never been under artillery fire,have you?

Or even watched many war movies from any war from the Revolutionary War to the last war?

Artillery fire is NOT accurate fire like rifle fire,but it doesn't have to be because when the shell hits and explodes,it sends out shrapnel to shred anyone within range.

The modern  155mm and 175mm arty pieces are a LOT more accurate than the old "smooth bore cannon" balls were,and a hell of a lot more deadly.

You might as well try to claim that bombing isn't effective. Try telling that to someone who has been bombed,or has never been inserted into a target hit by arty fire or bombers to do a "BDA" (Bomb Damage Assessment").

Granted,even the mightly 175's don't do the damage the 500 lb B-52 bombs make,but it is still pretty damn impressive,as well as scary. Sometimes enemy soldiers even die from concussion created by a nearby blast.
This might be a game changer as far as artillery goes, and the Canadians are giving the Ukrainians some.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFIxzlj2ObY
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline mountaineer

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #746 on: May 22, 2022, 12:26:28 pm »
Ian Miles Cheong
@stillgray
Zelensky now says diplomacy with Russia is the only solution. The loss of Mariupol and the the decimation of Azov was a gamechanger. A complete 180 on his previous position. He previously said nothing less than a Ukrainian victory would end the conflict.
7:58 AM · May 22, 2022
Quote
Zelensky: Only diplomacy can end Ukraine war
May 21, 2022
BBC

The war in Ukraine can only be resolved through "diplomacy", President Volodymyr Zelensky has said.

Speaking on national TV, he suggested his country could be victorious against Russia on the battlefield. However, he added that the war could only come to a conclusive halt "at the negotiating table".

Meanwhile, heavy fighting is taking place in and around Severodonetsk, as Russian forces step up efforts to seize the whole of the Luhansk region. The end of fighting in the southern port city of Mariupol has freed up Russian troops for redeployment elsewhere and allowed them to intensify their onslaught in the east. ...
More at BBC
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #747 on: May 22, 2022, 12:56:08 pm »
Certainly. You have consistently sided with the Communists in this, or perhaps just against Ukraine

I side with neither @Smokin Joe   As I have repeated ad nauseam, I find no good guys in this fight; innocents, yes, good guys, no.  This is an ongoing civil war/border conflict that the Western powers have orchestrated, managed and turned into a battle to the last Ukrainian and we still don't know why.  But, what we do know is the very last thing this sh*tshow is about is "freedom".

Quote
frequently citing the false dichotomy that because the Ukrainians are not Communist, and in fact a small minority of the Ukrainian army (one unit) have claimed or been claimed to be Nazis, that all are Nazis.

I never said or implied this, Joe.  I have, however, citied the nazi history of the Azov Battalion and how the world has known this for decades, including our own Congress.  I have also tried to discuss how Kiev unleased this battalion on the Eastern separatist region to terrorize, maim, murder and destroy the region for the past eight years.

One can certainly defend the Azov Battalion's involvement as an alliance similar to the Western Alliance with the Soviets in WWII.  But, to deny the history of the battalion and its role in the on-going attacks in the Dunbas region for eight years is rewritiing history  ---- and to do this with such vehemence is inexplicable.

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Another common theme is that because the career Russian puppets before Zelenskyy were corrupt and in bed with the Biden Family, that somehow means a person who was rich when he took office without having previously held any political position must be corrupt, too.(Which would make as much sense as saying because Obama was corrupt, Trump (also a rich guy and first time office holder) must be corrupt, too.)

Ukraine's Burisma, Hunter Biden; Ukraine's biolabs, Hunter Biden.  $1 billion dollars to change the prosecutor investigating Burmisa, Joe Biden.

10% to the big guy. 

On December 10, 2019, Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee announced they would levy two articles of impeachment, designated H. Res. 755: (1) abuse of power, and (2) obstruction of Congress, in its investigation of the President's conduct regarding Ukraine.

Ukraine was the vehicle driven to remove a sitting US President from office ----- after three years investigating Russia! Russia! Russia! hit the ground like a safe falling from a 20 story building.   And here we are two short years later, with the same big guy now sitting at the helm, shoulder deep in a never-ending border conflict five thousand miles away writing blank checks to Ukraine, calling for the assassination of the Russian leader and helping the EU expand and fundmentally change NATO from a defensive alliance to an offensive one ---- with the US paying the lion's share of the bill.

And you fail to see even the possibiity of a connection between Russia/Ukrainegte and our current actions.  Words fail me, Joe. 

Quote
The bottom line is that we have no boots on the ground in Ukraine, provide no air cover, and that the Ukrainians are fighting for their right to self-determination.... 

The bottom line is this is not our fight.   We owe Ukraine no weapons, no training, no money.  This is for the European Union to handle and solve to its satisfaction.

Two hundred and forty-six years ago we declared our independence from Europe.  Hopefully, sooner rather than later,  we'll mean it.



« Last Edit: May 22, 2022, 02:22:50 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #748 on: May 22, 2022, 02:17:43 pm »
Suspicious fire breaks out at Russian aerospace institute that develops fighter jets and rockets in latest blaze to hit the country amid fears of Ukrainian saboteur campaign

By WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
21 May 2022

Firefighters were today battling a blaze at a major Russian aerospace institute.

The blaze with thick black smoke was at the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute in Zhukovsky, a facility involved in research on Russian warplanes.

The inferno seen on videos is the latest at strategic Russian sites during the war with Ukraine with suspicions that some may be sabotage.

The fire began at a power substation supplying the institute, 43 miles southeast of Moscow, which has been crucial to the development of aircraft such as the Su-27, MiG-29, and MiG-31 fighters as well as various rockets.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10839953/Suspicious-fire-breaks-Russian-aerospace-institute-develops-fighter-jets-rockets.html

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #749 on: May 22, 2022, 04:32:14 pm »
'Putin will be gone by 2023': Ex MI6 chief Sir Richard Dearlove says the Russian president will be sent to a sanatorium to receive medical treatment amid claims he is losing his grip on power due to his ailing health

By MAILONLINE REPORTER
22 May 2022

Warmongering Russian president Vladimir Putin will be shipped off to a sanatorium by the end of the year, a former MI6 chief predicts. With persistent rumors of serious ill health for the Russian strongman, one method of 'moving things on' without need for a violent coup would be to place him in a long term hospital for the incurably unwell, suggested Richard Dearlove.

The various Russian systems of governance over the centuries have always been autocratic and have never been designed with transitions of power in mind. But now, with Russia facing military humiliation and economic catastrophe, and led by a leader who is rumored to be afflicted with a variety of life-threatening diseases, thoughts are turning inwardly in the Kremlin as to how to replace the man in power.

These are the thoughts of Dearlove, who was speaking on the One Decision podcast which he co-hosts. 'I think he'll be gone by 2023 - but probably into the sanatorium, from which he will not emerge as the leader of Russia.' 'I'm not saying he won't emerge from the sanatorium, but he won't emerge as the leader of Russia any longer. 'That's a way to sort of move things on without a coup,' he concluded. Pictured: File photo of a hospital.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/galleries/article-10842533/Ex-MI6-chief-says-Putin-sent-sanatorium.html