Author Topic: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk  (Read 8435 times)

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Online roamer_1

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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #175 on: May 25, 2021, 09:31:21 pm »
But the governor refuses to leave.  He kicks the legislature out of the Capitol and runs the State as he sees fit.  And no one in the State has the moxie to challenge him.  Each election year, he holds dummy elections, but at the last minute overrules the results and puts his own choices in.

How many elections would the other States have to put up with this tyrant influencing Presidential elections before a court decided another State's protest against this egregiously unconstitutional action deserved judiciary review?

Like in kind to the weight mega-cities hold over the states they are in, holding the rest of their state hostage... for decades now. Shall we impose a federal court decision to remediate that condition?

Or is it a matter of passive acquiescence where all we can do is pray those folks pull their heads outta their asses and take their states back?

I think you know the answer - Except your scenario was purposefully absurd, and my answer is IRL.
go figger.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #176 on: May 25, 2021, 09:31:28 pm »
So Texas gets to rub their noses in it and fix it for them...

That ain't what the Constitution says, and thank God for that!

Your selective application of the Constitution is noted.

Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #177 on: May 25, 2021, 09:37:03 pm »
Who decides which states have violated the Constitution and on what grounds?

It seems if a state cannot gets electoral votes in order under seal of its governor, Congress doesn't have to count that state's electoral votes unless both houses of Congress can agree to do so.

If the governor of Arizona certified its electors' votes under seal, those votes are to be counted by both houses of Congress.  That's it.  Game Over.  Time to suck up the loss and start getting ready for 2022 and 2024.

If the alleged Arizona "audit" by CyberNinjas finds hanging chads, its too late.  Congress counted the certified electors' vote from each and every state.  There is no legal prescription or precedent for a subsequent recount or disqualification.

The events of January 6th were the attempts of private citizens to disrupt, if not interfere, if not prevent Congress' count of states' certified electors' votes to create a window of uncertainty, fear, or doubt to reach a means and an end that is undetermined.

It's up to the state of Arizona to decide what to do with the alleged "audit's" supposed "findings".

Texas Republicans can cry in their beers for the next four years just as Massachusetts Democrats had to do after the 2000 and 2016 elections.

Game Over.  Someone needs to win and someone else needs to lose.  Onto 2022.  May the side with the most gin'd up lawyers win.
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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #179 on: May 25, 2021, 09:37:49 pm »

You people who love the fact that the election was stolen to put Biden in the White House in violation of the Constitution make the silliest damn arguments.

The Constitution grants to the state legislatures the SOLE AUTHORITY to define the rules for selecting their electors.

It does not say that the legislatures are the only body with standing to sue the other states if the other states cheat.

In fact, the filing of federal lawsuits on behalf of the state is a function of the state's executive authority.   

But, you need all the silliness you can come up with to pretend the election wasn't stolen.

I didn't say that. Try to pay attention.

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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #180 on: May 25, 2021, 09:49:38 pm »
In case all y'all forgot, the topic of this thread is "Election Audits," and we strayed from that pages ago!

Please get back to the original topic!
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Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #181 on: May 25, 2021, 09:58:07 pm »
Whoa! whoa! whoa!

What about the election George W. Bush stole in 2000 and the election Donald Trump stole in 2016?

That's makes the score for successful steals, 2-1 in favor of Republicans.

Microaggression!  Reparations!  Shennannigans!  I've been aggrieved and am entitled to nothing!

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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #182 on: May 25, 2021, 10:07:11 pm »
No... Enumerate it. In what things does the state hold general sovereignty - Not beholden to anyone... Or does state sovereignty exist at all?

The limits to the actions of Congress are defined in Article I, Section 8, among other places.  Relevant to this discussion is the requirement that ONLY state LEGISLATURES have the authority to define how the state selects it's electors.

When non-legislative bodies in one state violate their state laws and choose elections in violation of the Constitution, every other state has standing to sue.

This isn't complicated.
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline Sled Dog

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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #183 on: May 25, 2021, 10:09:27 pm »
https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/explaining-how-congress-settles-electoral-college-disputes

https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/blog/the-constitution-and-contested-presidential-elections

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-12

As a consequence of the disputed election of 1870, Congress enacted a statute providing that if the vote of a state is not certified by the governor under seal, it shall not be counted unless both Houses of Congress concur.

... to this layman, it seems that if a state legislature cannot resolve the selection of electors and have that result certified under seal by that state's governor, both houses of Congress must concur to accept disputed electors.

... state legislature decides how electors are chosen
... electors are chosen by means prescribed by state legislature
.... (? state legislature nullifies popular vote to select electors ?)
... governor certifies states' electors under seal
... (? state governor does not certify state's electors' vote under seal ?)
... Congress counts electors' votes
... (? disputed elector votes not certified by governor under seal need concurrece of both houses of Congress to be counted ?)

If Texas had issues with Arizona's electors, it seems it could have been argued before both houses of Congress if the governor of Arizona had failed to certify the votes under seal.

What a mess ... hey Dick Wolf, time for Law & Order: Electoral College

Uh....no.

When one state has a legal dispute with another state, the proper venue for that dispute is the Supreme Court.

And the issue at hand in 2020 was that the governors of the states were validating invalid electors.
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline Sled Dog

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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #184 on: May 25, 2021, 10:11:04 pm »
Whoa! whoa! whoa!

What about the election George W. Bush stole in 2000 and the election Donald Trump stole in 2016?

That's makes the score for successful steals, 2-1 in favor of Republicans.

Microaggression!  Reparations!  Shennannigans!  I've been aggrieved and am entitled to nothing!



Funny that.

GW Bush won the state of Floriduh by the very strange act of getting more votes than Albore.

The theft was attempted by the Rodents.

And failed.

No subsequent count of the ballots in Floriduh ever gave Albore the plurality of the votes.   Thank you Ralphie.

And, of course, only idiots, liars and traitors believe that Hillary won that election in 2016.   And really those three classes pretty much have equal membership.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2021, 10:12:21 pm by Sled Dog »
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #185 on: May 25, 2021, 10:12:59 pm »
I didn't say that. Try to pay attention.

You don't need to say what is obvious to everyone who's honest.
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #186 on: May 25, 2021, 10:14:16 pm »
I never saw any verifiable, documented, proof accepted into evidence in a court of law regarding JFK's assassination.  But I am pretty damn confident that Lee Harvey Oswald shot him.
If you think about the mechanics of that, it was some skilled shooting: Down from 6 floors up, moving target, rapid fire with a bolt action rifle (under 3 seconds per shot), 2 of three shots hit the intended target the size of a dinner plate. While the vehicle was moving away from the Book Depository, reducing the shift in a moving target, the Carcano was not a particularly flat shooting rifle, making the movement relevant to targeting as well.
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Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #187 on: May 25, 2021, 10:14:32 pm »
Those advocating for audits need manage the media narrative to get their points across to people not watching Fox News and OAN.

What constitutes a valid voter?
- What disqualifies a voter?
What constitutes a valid ballot?
- What disqualifies a ballot?
What makes a cast ballot a valid, counted vote?
- What disqualifies a vote from being counted?
How is the validity of the voter, ballot, vote, and vote count determined and verified?
- How are descrepancies aggrieved, adjudicated, and addressed?

Elections are conducted by the government.  If citizens don't trust the government's or government officials' conduct of the election process, to whom do they petition for redress or appeal?  How are government agencies and agents held to account for compliance with existing election laws?

These are valid questions that require a mutually agreeable arbitration framework before election day or before absentee ballots are sent out.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #188 on: May 25, 2021, 10:20:54 pm »
Quote
Quote from: Hoodat on Today at 05:08:00 PM

The vote of Electors also cross state lines.

no, it does not.

Yes, it does. 

All states and their voters are entitled to a presidential election in which the votes from each of the states are counted only if the ballots are cast and counted in a manner that complies with the pre-existing laws of each state. Any fraud within one state denied citizens in all states due process and equal protection.  This denial of constitutionally protected rights grows exponentially with each additional state whose electors are appointed through fraud.

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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #189 on: May 25, 2021, 10:23:27 pm »
Whoa! whoa! whoa!

What about the election George W. Bush stole in 2000

For some strange reason, that election case had standing.  Not sure what has changed between then and 2020.

btw, that case lost 7-2 in that the different recount procedures put in place for each location violated equal protection of Amendment XIV.  Kind of like the same argument made in 2020 where legislatively enacted counting procedures were not followed by every county, but that some counties changed their rules which affected the outcome.  It isn't equal when Cherokee County follows State law in setting up drop box locations while Fulton County makes up new rules.  And likewise Cherokee County rejects mail in ballots without signatures (as the law dictates) while Fulton County counts theirs.
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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #190 on: May 25, 2021, 10:24:39 pm »
Who decides which states have violated the Constitution and on what grounds?

It seems if a state cannot gets electoral votes in order under seal of its governor, Congress doesn't have to count that state's electoral votes unless both houses of Congress can agree to do so.

If the governor of Arizona certified its electors' votes under seal, those votes are to be counted by both houses of Congress.  That's it.  Game Over.  Time to suck up the loss and start getting ready for 2022 and 2024.

If the alleged Arizona "audit" by CyberNinjas finds hanging chads, its too late.  Congress counted the certified electors' vote from each and every state.  There is no legal prescription or precedent for a subsequent recount or disqualification.

The events of January 6th were the attempts of private citizens to disrupt, if not interfere, if not prevent Congress' count of states' certified electors' votes to create a window of uncertainty, fear, or doubt to reach a means and an end that is undetermined.

It's up to the state of Arizona to decide what to do with the alleged "audit's" supposed "findings".

Texas Republicans can cry in their beers for the next four years just as Massachusetts Democrats had to do after the 2000 and 2016 elections.

Game Over.  Someone needs to win and someone else needs to lose.  Onto 2022.  May the side with the most gin'd up lawyers win.
The results will not be changed, it is the future conduct of elections which remains in question.
The U.S. Constitution clearly states that it is up to the State Legislatures to make the rules: no one else.

Get back to that, and strip the authority to move goalposts from the minor officials and make it explicit (as if it wasn't clear enough to begin with).

As for crying in their beers, the Democrats may not have been happy, but they really lost.

We will all be crying in our beverages (should we be able to afford them) in this instance because we all are subject to the insanity of this administration. BTW, in case you didn't notice, Texas may have filed suit, but there were over 20 other States who signed on also. Mine was one of them.
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #191 on: May 25, 2021, 10:32:23 pm »
Georgia conducted (3) audits recounts of its 2020 Presidential election.  Not everyone agrees with the findings and conclusions.  But Georgia put that election in the books. with the outcome.

Audits are valuable tools for measuring and improving the voting process.

What is not valuable is the uncertainty, doubt, and fear that has resulted from a poorly managed Arizona vote audit.  Actually, they are only auditing the votes from Maricopa County, not the whole state of Arizona.

The optics are that some sore losers are snipe hunting for a lost cache of misplaced Trump votes  that will somehow change the outcome of an election that's already been decided, though dissatisfactorily.

Is there an official web page that I can reference?  Otherwise, I'm ingesting whatever tripe the liberal lamestream media serves on its news channels.  And right now, the alleged Arizona audit of Maricopa County votes looks like a nut show in search of an asylum.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2021, 10:48:48 pm by DefiantMassRINO »
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #192 on: May 25, 2021, 10:40:30 pm »
Georgia conducted (3) audits of its 2020 Presidential election.  Not everyone agrees with the findings and conclusions.  But Georgia put that election in the books.

Audits are valuable tools for measuring and improving the voting process.

Didn't GA perform a recount  --- which is vastly different from an audit?

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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #193 on: May 25, 2021, 10:41:25 pm »
Georgia conducted (3) audits of its 2020 Presidential election.

Uh, no.  Georgia conducted zero audits of its 2020 Presidential election.
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Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #194 on: May 25, 2021, 11:02:05 pm »
Republicans distrust the Maricopa County election process.
Democrats distrust the auditor of the Maricopa County election process.

Whom would both sides trust to conduct an impartial audit of the election processes in each and every state after each election?  This seems like it's going to need to become standard practice after elections.

Otherwise state and national political parties are going to be challenging the legitimacy of each and every states' electors in state courts, the US Supreme Court, the Congress, and the press after every election.

The only winners are the lawyers who get to bill more hours.
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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #195 on: May 25, 2021, 11:10:49 pm »
Uh, no.  Georgia conducted zero audits of its 2020 Presidential election.

What they are doing now is not a legitimate audit, either.
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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #196 on: May 25, 2021, 11:14:45 pm »
Republicans distrust the Maricopa County election process.
Democrats distrust the auditor of the Maricopa County election process.

Whom would both sides trust to conduct an impartial audit of the election processes in each and every state after each election?  This seems like it's going to need to become standard practice after elections.

Otherwise state and national political parties are going to be challenging the legitimacy of each and every states' electors in state courts, the US Supreme Court, the Congress, and the press after every election.

The only winners are the lawyers who get to bill more hours.

I have a novel idea!!

Let's wait and see what the Maricopa Audit turns before we attack it like Democrats!  This criticism is silly  stupid.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #197 on: May 25, 2021, 11:27:33 pm »
Georgia conducted (3) audits recounts of its 2020 Presidential election.  Not everyone agrees with the findings and conclusions.  But Georgia put that election in the books. with the outcome.

Audits are valuable tools for measuring and improving the voting process.

What is not valuable is the uncertainty, doubt, and fear that has resulted from a poorly managed Arizona vote audit.  Actually, they are only auditing the votes from Maricopa County, not the whole state of Arizona.

The optics are that some sore losers are snipe hunting for a lost cache of misplaced Trump votes  that will somehow change the outcome of an election that's already been decided, though dissatisfactorily.

Is there an official web page that I can reference?  Otherwise, I'm ingesting whatever tripe the liberal lamestream media serves on its news channels.  And right now, the alleged Arizona audit of Maricopa County votes looks like a nut show in search of an asylum.
Misplaced Trump votes are not so much the issue as "extra" Biden votes.

In the states which halted counting, large numbers of ballots with highly improbable concentrations of Biden votes were applied en bloc after counting had supposedly been suspended for the night. In each case, these votes had a material effect on the outcome of the election in those respective states, with an effect on the outcome of a national election. None of those States followed rules which originated as Constitutionally prescribed, and altering those rules, as well as apparent addition of votes which caused the number of total votes to exceed the number of qualified voters, and that affects us all, as the electoral votes resulting from those counts swayed the election.
There is no back and forth, all these irregularities benefited only one candidate, and massively so, with the effect that we all live under an administration which was not elected in a manner prescribed in the US Constitution.

This isn't rocket surgery. The SCOTUS is the court of original jurisdiction in matters between the States, and failed to address the issue, leaving no form of judicial relief.

As for Maricopa county looking like a nutshow in the MSM, that is their full intent. THey cn present anything any way they want. The MSM are masters of optics and editing and lie with a straight face and full gravitas, because their job is no longer to report what is going on, but to convince you of their spin on the issue.  Try the Epoch Times for more factual reporting.

Of course the COunty is up at arms, what besides indignation do liberals throw at their accusers? And if an audit is being conducted, the purpose isn't to PROVE there was fraud, but to expose whether or not that may have been present, and, if present, the extent and mechanisms of any fraud exposed.

If you don't know the problem, you can't fix it.

Personally, I am fairly convinced that the folks in Maricopa county are not only well aware of the "problem", but see it as a feature, not a bug, because the outcome generated conforms to their politically desired result.

That anyone would threaten the use of an illicit ability to change the results of an election will be met with hostility and ridicule and resistance rather than calm and quiet compliance in the examination of results is a given. It is obvious that Maricopa County believes that an impartial audit will prove at least some irregularity in the conduct of the election, and all that remains for the Left is to attack the audit itself, a standard the MSM will wave with vigour.

If there is the sincere belief that nothing was done wrong, then the audit should be welcomed, and an impartial audit would prove that nothing was wrong and end speculation.
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

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C S Lewis

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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #198 on: May 25, 2021, 11:28:51 pm »
What they are doing now is not a legitimate audit, either.
Correct. Mere images of mail in ballots may not reliably disclose ballots which had no folds in the paper.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Why Are Democrats So Afraid of Election Audits? By Charlie Kirk
« Reply #199 on: May 25, 2021, 11:50:04 pm »
Yes, it does. 

All states and their voters are entitled to a presidential election in which the votes from each of the states are counted only if the ballots are cast and counted in a manner that complies with the pre-existing laws of each state. Any fraud within one state denied citizens in all states due process and equal protection.  This denial of constitutionally protected rights grows exponentially with each additional state whose electors are appointed through fraud.

Nonsense.