Author Topic: No-No-No! Your Rights Come From Government, Not God  (Read 409 times)

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Online Elderberry

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No-No-No! Your Rights Come From Government, Not God
« on: March 08, 2021, 02:33:36 am »
The Post & Email by Ron Ewart 3/7/2021

No-No-No! Your Rights Come From Government, Not God

“It is remarkable how easily children and grown-ups adapt to living in a dictatorship, organized by lunatics.”  — A. N. Wilson, an English writer and newspaper columnist

“Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty.”  — Plato (428 to 348 BCE) 2,500 years ago

Sure!  We know you have been told otherwise. You thought you were free because your rights are natural rights, a gift from the Almighty.  Those rights aren’t derived from the power of government.   That would be contrary to all of the utterances of philosophers since Plato and Aristotle.

But just because a bunch of well-heeled white men set up a framework of government a couple of hundred years ago that established individual rights doesn’t change the fact that for the last 100+ years or so you have been hoodwinked, conned and lied to about where your rights were derived.  Perhaps it was just all a dream with no substance to back up the false claim that somehow you are actually free of the yoke of government because God granted you certain unalienable rights.  What is the real truth?

The fact is, government owns you lock, stock and barrel and you can’t do one darn thing about it, short of going to war.  You are an indentured slave but you just don’t know it.  In 245 years that framework of freedom designed by some pretty bright white men has been so bastardized by socialist Democrats (Progressives) as to be essentially unrecognizable.  It was a joke anyhow, wasn’t it, really?

More: https://www.thepostemail.com/2021/03/07/no-no-no-your-rights-come-from-government-not-god/

Offline Hoodat

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Re: No-No-No! Your Rights Come From Government, Not God
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2021, 02:40:22 am »
We have been endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights . . .

Even atheist Ayn Rand gets it.

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."
-Ayn Rand-
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Sled Dog

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Re: No-No-No! Your Rights Come From Government, Not God
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2021, 05:46:42 am »
The problem is, of course, is that rights aren't things and they don't exist.

What used to be considered "rights" were ACTIONS proscribed from the government that infringe on ACTIONS and/or PROPERTY of the people.

Rights can't "come from God" where there is not only no agreement on what "god" is, or who, but there's no evidence that this God Guy actually exists at all.

It's better to recognize that, because rights aren't material things, they don't actually exist.

So...people don't have a right to practice their religion.  More importantly, other people don't have a right to interfere with how people practice their religion, unless said practice harms other people or their property...so no, human sacrifice is not a valid thing.

People don't have a right to keep and bear arms...no matter what the Constitution calls it...who the heck is that weird person telling  people they can't own guns?  Who gave him the right to boss them around like that?

What to know what else aren't "rights"?

People don't have a right to "health care", health care costs money and the one thing normal people agree about "rights" is that they are free to exercise, but people certainly have the freedom to seek whatever health care they want...so long as they themselves have the funds to pay for it.   Weirdly, the Rodent concept of "rights" has evolved away from the liberal ideal of limiting government power to the Rodent ideal of making government all-powerful and limiting freedom.

Don't need a god guy to give people something they already had, the power to recognize that other people aren't supposed to have power over them, do we?

« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 05:52:52 am by Sled Dog »
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: No-No-No! Your Rights Come From Government, Not God
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2021, 06:43:34 am »
The problem is, of course, is that rights aren't things and they don't exist.

What used to be considered "rights" were ACTIONS proscribed from the government that infringe on ACTIONS and/or PROPERTY of the people.


Ahh... So things like love and honor and mercy don't exist either... After all, they are not 'things' either.


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Don't need a god guy to give people something they already had, the power to recognize that other people aren't supposed to have power over them, do we?

Then you are left with nothing more than the French 'Rights of Man' - The veritable anchor of socialism... Careful what you wish for. What Man endows, Man can take away.

What Yah endows requires an higher court than any man can attend or influence.

That is a mighty difference... And one you are in dire error in not understanding.

Offline Sled Dog

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Re: No-No-No! Your Rights Come From Government, Not God
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2021, 07:12:19 am »
Ahh... So things like love and honor and mercy don't exist either... After all, they are not 'things' either.

Here's an idea:

Love is an EMOTION.
Honor is an expression of human BEHAVIOR.
Mercy is an expression of human BEHAVIOR.

Therefore, since emotions and human behaviors exist, those feelings and actions can be said to exist.

A "right" is a flawed concept that cannot be defined.   I'll leave it to the student to learn the concept of "definition".  But since people cannot agree on it's definition, how can it be said to exist?   Define "unicorn".   Do they have to poop rainbows, or is that only idea a certain set of people hold them to? If we got everyone to agree that unicorns poo Skittles, would they then achieve objective reality?

No.  Because unicorns don't exist.  They are a figment of imagination.

Rights don't exist. One person's right is another person's "weapon of war". They are a figment of human imagination, convenient shorthand for discussion.   It's easier to tell the ignorant and unsophisticated that they have a "right" to healthcare...they're too stupid to understand the nuances of meaning.

Shall we talk about the "right to life"?   How'd that work for the people who didn't get a seat on the Titanic's lifeboats?

It's a CONCEPT.   It's easier in the human psyche, which is focused on material possessions and emotional links, to talk about the "right" of the child to live and how evil it is for the child's mother to murder it.   It's a convenient mental shorthand.

Rights are "inalienable" only insofar as the authors of the Declaration meant that governments were not supposed to intrude.   That it is immoral for governments to do so.

There's no enforcement mechanisms.  "Rights" get violated every day.  Hey!  How about our "right" to free and fair elections?  How's that one holding up?  How's the government record on protecting that one?




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Then you are left with nothing more than the French 'Rights of Man' - The veritable anchor of socialism... Careful what you wish for. What Man endows, Man can take away.

What Yah endows requires an higher court than any man can attend or influence.

That is a mighty difference... And one you are in dire error in not understanding.

Who endows?   If you're going to enter into a debate claiming someone gave someone else something, not only are you then facing the obligation to show that the something given actually exists, but you might be called on to demonstrate that the giver is as real as the gift.

MY method doesn't require any magic tricks or superstitions.  People don't have rights.  That means they don't have the moral authority to command how others live their lives.  They don't have the right to tell someone to shut up, to stop praying to their Someone Else, to not associate with "those" people, to stop bugging their government, to not buy guns, to not do this, that or the other whatever thing it is the would be tyrants don't want done.

People not only have the freedom to say "no", they have to freedom to refuse to obey orders.   

And if you're going to then claim that groups make the laws, and that rights are not the product of laws...as your assumption that "rights" are the "gift" of some magical being, you're absolutely right.   Since rights do not exist, they are granted neither by groups nor gods. 

This whole argument about the origin of rights vanishes when the proper perspective is achieved.

Since rights don't exist, the most pressing question the oppressed class can ask, "what gives you the right to...?" acquires new meaning.  No one gave the oppressor the right to do ...? because they simply don't have that right at all.

So, rather than engaging a Rodent in a futile argument about whatever right of yours he's violating, take the easy course and tell them to piss off because they don't have the right to give you orders.

The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: No-No-No! Your Rights Come From Government, Not God
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2021, 07:26:47 am »
Here's an idea:

Love is an EMOTION.

No... Love is far more than a mere emotion. The greatest thing of ALL is love.

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Honor is an expression of human BEHAVIOR.

No. Honor is the result of human behavior.

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Mercy is an expression of human BEHAVIOR.

No, Mercy is the result of human behavior.

.. Each can be an action in a short term. But the truth of it is life long - One is not merciful over a single act. Nor does honor remain because of a single act - Though it certainly can be lost that way... And love is not found in a bordello, or the back seat of a '57 Chevy... Love is found across lifetimes.

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Therefore, since emotions and human behaviors exist, those feelings and actions can be said to exist.

So there is no room for  noble heart... There is no room for reason. there is no room for higher thought at all. Well, I reject that outright. You find room for the physical, and for the emotional - but no room for mind and spirit... That is a narrow view.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

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A "right" is a flawed concept that cannot be defined.   

All the things that matter in life are hard to define. That does not make them flawed.


Offline Sled Dog

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Re: No-No-No! Your Rights Come From Government, Not God
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2021, 07:38:35 am »
No... Love is far more than a mere emotion. The greatest thing of ALL is love.

No. Honor is the result of human behavior.

No, Mercy is the result of human behavior.

Wrong and wrong.

You're conflating motivation with results.

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.. Each can be an action in a short term. But the truth of it is life long - One is not merciful over a single act. Nor does honor remain because of a single act - Though it certainly can be lost that way... And love is not found in a bordello, or the back seat of a '57 Chevy... Love is found across lifetimes.

Actually, the two examples are always expression of transient emotions.   No one is honorable for his entire life.   Welcome to human reality.   And people can only be "merciful" if they possess the power to cause harm, and refrain.   But if they NEVER exercise the power to cause harm...when do they get the opportunity to demonstrate mercy?

People who wander the battlefield ministering to the wounded and dying aren't displaying mercy, unless they participated in the carnage in the first place.

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So there is no room for  noble heart... There is no room for reason. there is no room for higher thought at all. Well, I reject that outright. You find room for the physical, and for the emotional - but no room for mind and spirit... That is a narrow view.

No room for reason?

You actually said that?

Amazing.

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

My name isn't Horry.   

I'm a husky.

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All the things that matter in life are hard to define. That does not make them flawed.

Boy, you sure wander away from the point.

To get back to the main point...rights do not exist.   That means they are not flawed, they are not "difficult to define".  That means they're not real and there are better conceptual models to pursue that clarifies issues in a more satisfactory manner.

Do you still adhere to the Theory of Phlogiston?   Just checking.
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: No-No-No! Your Rights Come From Government, Not God
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2021, 07:54:25 am »
Rights exist regardless of you or any other human trying to remove them, singly or in concert.

Just as a child, unschooled in philosophy or religion knows when they have been wronged, when something is unfair.

To deny those Rights (which are God-given) is to deny God, Himself, but also to deny the seminal concept from which follow all of the decent precepts of our form of Government and Constitution--the very essence of Americanism.

If you deny those exist, you deny the most fundamental concepts which led to the founding of this Federation, and any legitimacy therefor.

As for God, well you don't have to know who He is. But someday He'll tell you in no uncertain terms.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

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Re: No-No-No! Your Rights Come From Government, Not God
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2021, 07:58:12 am »
Wrong and wrong.

You're conflating motivation with results.


No, I am not. It cannot be truly said that a man is honorable except as an epithet. It is not a mere motivation. It is a state of mind.

Love can look cruel - A man raises his son up with hard knuckles and little mercy - But he loves him more than his own life. Far, far more than an emotion. The barren withered hands of an old woman - spent across a lifetime, incapable of holding anything anymore. But she holds in those hands the love of three, mabye four generations that she has raised up right. In that her honor dwells.

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Actually, the two examples are always expression of transient emotions.   No one is honorable for his entire life.   Welcome to human reality.   And people can only be "merciful" if they possess the power to cause harm, and refrain.   But if they NEVER exercise the power to cause harm...when do they get the opportunity to demonstrate mercy?


I would not say transient as much as I would a sum-total. And that is where you lose me. Surely there is the transient act - But that is not what it is defined by.


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People who wander the battlefield ministering to the wounded and dying aren't displaying mercy, unless they participated in the carnage in the first place.



Now you are just confusing things. Administering aid is more of a charity. Giving quarter as a noble act alone is mercy.

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No room for reason?

You actually said that?

Amazing.


Of course I did. Many things you discount cannot be found without reason... Higher thought.

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My name isn't Horry.   

I'm a husky.

Boy, you sure wander away from the point.

WTF are you goin on about?

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To get back to the main point...rights do not exist.   That means they are not flawed, they are not "difficult to define".  That means they're not real and there are better conceptual models to pursue that clarifies issues in a more satisfactory manner.

Oh but they are defined... Among them are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness... THOSE are the things that are hard to define. That they are rights is not. Nor is the concept of 'rights' flawed. They certainly DO exist.

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Do you still adhere to the Theory of Phlogiston?   Just checking.

Ahh... So 'outdated'... Relying upon the hubris of modernity...

Offline Hoodat

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Re: No-No-No! Your Rights Come From Government, Not God
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2021, 02:05:36 pm »
Here's an idea:

Love is an EMOTION.

Uh, no.  Here is how some first century lawyer put it:

Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.  Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.  For we know in part and we prophesy in part.  But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.  When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.  For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

Faith, hope, and love have substance that far transcends emotion.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: No-No-No! Your Rights Come From Government, Not God
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2021, 02:31:54 pm »
Rights exist regardless of you or any other human trying to remove them, singly or in concert.

As for God, well you don't have to know who He is. But someday He'll tell you in no uncertain terms.
Even the devil acknowledges God.

And He has already told them where to go.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington