GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers

[Sled Dog]

Yep! Basic laws of behaviour, like laws of nature, don't go away.
The same things that work and have worked in cultures and societies which practiced them will continue to work.
It is those which do not, no matter who practices them, which cannot endure.
Every civilization which has been in defiance of that has failed or is in the process of failing.
And it does not matter who does or doesn't do that, any more than desire can overcome the law of gravity.

And every civilization that has tried to hew to this idea has also failed or is failing.

You can't make any kind of comparison like you did because...

....every civilization is an organic thing that comes into existence, grows, flourishes, then dies.

This appears to be a law of human society that cannot be opposed, unlike gravity.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Yeah... Stolen slogans really prove the point. 

You just don't get it.  For some unknown reason you refuse to understand that conservatism is not a group of lofty, intractable principles that only a chosen few comprehend and fight for @roamer_1  You insist it is something so special, so separate, so unique that only a handful grasp its magnificence.

For a large swath of American citizens, cutting across every region, every economic bracket, every color, every creed  "conservatism" is intrinsic because it is the essence of the American spirit.  We don't need some smartass political preacher man telling us what it is, how we're bleeping it up or how we should respond to it.

When it comes to politics, conservatism is like porn; Americans know it when they see it.

"Make America Great Again" is conservatism.  Donald Trump further distilled it to its essence:  "America First".   "Make America Great Again" IS a slogan.  "America First" is courageous --- and from the gut.

For all you principled conservative preacher men out there who keep insisting Donald Trump had no principles --- stop talking long enough to understand that Donald Trump was the single most principled conservative ever to grace the Oval Office. Everything, bleeping everything this man did promoted and strengthened America First, from: freedom of speech to freedom of religion to freedom of economic security; fair trade deals, secure sovereign borders, the right to life, peace through strength, to we worship God not government and America will never be a socialist nation.  THESE are conservative principles.

Had Ronald Reagan followed Donald Trump into the Oval Office you know damn well he would have left untouched:  Trump's EOs and international agreements on immigration, NATO's fair share, the end of the Paris Accords, the end of the Iran Deal, the Abraham Accords, the Kosovo-Serbia economic agreement, a defunded Planned Parenthood, a rebuilt military, our energy independence, financial support for colleges with freedom of speech policies, medical right to try, the tax plan, the removal of regulations, the China strategy, and his belief that Americans built this country, in spite of their government; and they own it, not the swamp.

Had Ronald Reagan followed Donald Trump into the Oval Office he would have known he had awfully large shoes to fill.

[Sled Dog]

Just catching up, Bigun.  Of all the treasonous acts committed, the SC turning tail was the most heart wrenching.  We know that many departments are comped, but to have one of three branches do this is horrid.  So, so disappointing.

Ummm.....sorry that I have to ask, but the judicial branch betrayed the Constitution, aye.

The Congress betrayed the Constitution the same way.

And the executive branch, in the form of Pence refusing to question the integrity of the electors, also failed.

Which of the three branches did not violate the Constitution regarding Trump's electoral win last year?

[roamer_1]

Oh.

Since NOTHING that Reagan did survived, I guess he was nothing, too, right?

You mean, like the modern Conservative movement?
You mean like the Southern Strategy?
You mean like tricke-down Economics?
You mean like the Fall of the Soviet Union, and 'Tear Down This Wall?'
You mean the modern Pro-Life Movement?

You mean stuff like that?
Yeah.

Trump was making America great again.   The disgusting RINO Principled Conservative traitors hated the idea and fought him every step of the way.   They wanted Jeb! to give Hillary the please clap, or something like that.

That's just it: NO, HE WASN'T. He was governing by edict, and doomed to fail, because EOs don't count. Y'all think I am diggin on him in that, but I really ain't. It's just a bare fact. A four year long house of cards. No strength. no longevity. Just a raucus fart and a whole lot of giggling.

It takes LAW to change things. And as I said upthread, it takes a machine to write the law. Y'all ludicrously assumed that installing your prince meant that everyone would just step and fetch. That was never going to happen.

[Cyber Liberty]

That, and stop, just stop calling the perfidious louts "RINOs".

They are, in essence, the GOP. (Sorry, @Cyber Liberty, I know you are personally trying to change that, and there are other exceptions, but that is where the power lies.)

It is Conservatives who are the real Republicans in Name Only, because there is no other banner for conservatives to run under without being shoved completely off to the side in the false dichotomy of the "Two-Party System".

It is the "GOP Leaders" like McConnell, McStain, Romney, Ryan, Boehner, Bushes, and so forth who have managed to pull aside the football, time after time, who have managed to fall just short enough that the Democrats have managed to keep most of the ground they gained, if not add to it during "Republican" moments of power.

But Conservative?? 

Only in apparent comparison to the ever Leftist-sliding Democrat (now openly Socialist/Communist) Party, is the GOP "conservative", with that tenuous position of moral relativity ever giving ground to the SJWs and special interest groups EXCEPT those who support traditional (family) values and the Right to Life.

There are always enough of those cretins in Congress (and elsewhere) to abandon principle in favor of "bi-partisanship" to scuttle any attempt to gain conservative ground, and often to make sure the eventual agenda of those who advance ever toward totalitarianism and away from our Constitutional Republic is satisfied, in even the smallest yet ground breaking ways.

(For instance, for those who think the SCOTUS would readily rule against requiring a "vaccine" to exercise your Civil Rights, think again. The precedent is already established that you can be "taxed" for not buying health insurance. While less personally and biologically invasive than modifying your cellular chemistry with mRNA, it is not a far step that you could be penalized for not subjecting yourself to medical experimentation on a massive scale, be that penalty pecuniary or a loss of essential Civil Rights, "for the public good"--the latter phrase, one which has been stretched like taffy beyond sane limits, is much like the interstate commerce clause.)

It is these little bricks, the decisions, the failures of investigations to actually accomplish anything or hold any to account, the nibbles at the Bill of Rights, that in summation form the all too solid foundations in statute and precedent which will be used as the basis for the growing megastate, the totalitarian Global Order, and those who are supposed to be representing US are in the thick of it, representing (with rare exception) only themselves and the monied interests which ultimately they see as putting them in power, not the voters who gave that anointing a rubber stamp. And now, now with the absence of howling, shrieking and absolute hell-raising protest of the latest and most egregious election fraud/theft, the die is cast, and the voices of the voters don't mean one whit because the elections can be manipulated at will, the polls reported as whatever the made to order point spread will be (+/- 4 points) in the captive media, and all else censored by omission or deplatforming.

If that doesn't work, the powers that be have the option of (literally) coming after any or all of us for "domestic terrorism": because their goon squads can create an incident, anywhere, anytime, call 1-800 rent a riot "mostly peaceful protest".

Frankly, I'm with @roamer_1. In the past 4 years, the GOP failed to remove Obamacare. Failed to cut the budget, failed to produce a budget, went 20 trillion further in debt, and failed to codify measures which would ensure continued and increased border security. Walls are nice where they are, but you have to close the frigging gate. (It's like the switch was turned back on, here come the Obama caravans of "kids" again, likely headed to or already part of some human trafficking scheme.) What happened with Epstein/Maxwell's information? So much information and so many opportunities gone down the Memory Hole of "investigation".

Was it put in a digital Rolodex so the usual suspects have convenient sources of entertainment (Those are someone's kids, damn it!), What about the Burisma scandal? and Riots, real ones not some faux "insurrection" that did not even have a rope. A real "armed insurrection" wouldn't have to scrounge up fire extinguishers to not actually hit police over the head with (no video, in the Capitol!, of anyone being hit with one--or it would have been all over the news). Somehow, over 200 people ended up with charges against them for visiting the Capitol, and more are coming, but cities across America were burned (or protesters faced down by citizens with firearms in plain view to keep the peace) and where are the charges? Against a 17 year old who defended his own life? Against Homeowners defending themselves, their home, their neighbors from people who had torn down a metal gate to trespass as a mob? Against police who could not have killed the guy who was dying of a Fentanyl overdose, and not against those who have looted, burned, and murdered their way through the year leading up to the election.

Where in the Hell has the GOP been through all this? Whining impotently in the corner.

It isn't about Trump, one way or the other, really, it is that the GOP's utter failure to make anything but an EO policy, and even the allegedly conservative Justices added to the SCOTUS turned tail and hid under the nearest lawbook when the issue (seems pretty damned clear to me) of a primary jurisdiction case regarding election procedures in an national election, a question of violating (prima facie!) the Constitution arose, in an epic and historic display of the continued nonfeasance that has become the hallmark of the Party.

I have a hard time seeing what it is I am supposed to be fighting for when the Party which is supposed to be fighting for me appears to be fighting against me and the Constitution it is sworn to uphold. This is why the GOP lost control of the House, despite any boost it got from the POTUS, and excused as a typical midterm loss of seats. That has been the failure that keeps on failing.

IF we don't stand on principle...

IF we fail to make a hard line, carved in stone, not scratched in sand, we can expect conservatism, the Constitution, and the Republic to fall, and leading that charge against it will be some of the GOP, voted for to keep the greater evils from having the pole position in the vanguard.

A pretty good post (as usual), with the exception of my task likely being futile... 

[Sled Dog]

The Tump movement was a caricature, all the way along. It LOOKED like the TEA party, but had no political depth at all. It is no accident that most of the new TEA party people got sucked out into the ether through Tumpys whirring  revolving administration door... Zinke, the only one I worked for was one of them. Dept of Interior, fine. But ZERO promises kept. And that ain't from Zinke. He'd do if he could.

The DEEP STATE boogeyman turned out to be MurderTurtle. Who'da thunk it. Well, other than me... And probably you... And a few others.

I am not disheartened. I expected this end.  I seen it coming the whole way along. But all that TEA Party mechanism is still there - Still in place. All that is needed is to pick that back up and continue. Getting that through Populists fool heads is the problem.

Hmmmph.

And who did the TEA Party elect?  Besides a couple of cranks?

What did they accomplish?

Why did they not accomplish ANYTHING.

They must have been pointless non-conservative people.

Oh.

Because they were infiltrated by both Rodents in their RINO disguise, they were destroyed as an effective political unit.  so they're okay because they became "Principled".   

The Rodents couldn't infiltrate Trump, Trump was one man.    And thus all the real TEA Party people supported and support Trump.

You guys just hate America.

[Sled Dog]

@Smokin Joe


Which would have been nothing more than a fart in a hurricane. A "political pose for the mindless goobers". He can veto,and congress can override the veto,while screaming the whole time about how "the Presidents treasonous veto is starving the wimmins and the chillruns to death as well as making the wurld mo dangerous fo murikans!

It would be like a Christmas gift to the left,weaken his presidency,and not gain him or the Republic,one single damn positive thing.

This is about winning,not posing.

NO President can get away with that unless they have partisan control over Congress,or at least a tie,as well as a compliant media.

The sad,sad truth is that today the media is the most powerful branch of goobermint,and they are nothing less than a tool of the internationalists.

If Reagan had thought his veto of bills could have been politically effective, he would have done so.

Same for Trump.

There's a reason the Framers put all those specific limits on the power of Congress and little on the power of the Executive.  Congress has almost all of the power in the first place.  Still does.

Which is why it's disgusting when things like Boehner and RINO Ryan and McConnel come to lead those branches and do exactly what the Rodents do.

[Sled Dog]

@Bigun

NONE of that matters. Not ONE single bit.

The ONLY things that are important are "Bad Orange Man is a Billionaire,and I hate him for it!

We iz da wurld.......,we iz de peons,..........,hoping to hang all the rich peep-pulls........."

Well, what really bugged the Rodents is "Orangeman Isn't Drunken Harridan".

[txradioguy]

If Reagan had thought his veto of bills could have been politically effective, he would have done so.

Remind me how many times Reagan shut the government down to get what he wanted?

You clearly haven't studied Reagan or his Presidency.

[Bigun]

Well, what really bugged the Swamp denizens is that "Orangeman" was threatening their playground!

Fixed it for you @Sled Dog

[Sled Dog]

There are more Conservatives OUTSIDE the Republican party than in it. Been that way for a long time. Look it up.

Sure, I registered in the LP after the RINOs threw the impeachment of the Rapist Humidor Abuser.

I'm the most conservative person YOU know.

I became disgusted by how the LP was the biker slut of the Rodents.   Whenever they wanted to grab an election by dishonest means, they would pimp out an LP clown to split the GOP vote.   That's how the scum-bucket McAulliffe took the Virginia governorship.

So when Trump was elected, I re-registered as GOP.

If there's a conservative somewhere and they didn't vote for Trump, they're not conservatives.  They're useless.  They have Principles and no honor.

[Sled Dog]

Fixed it for you @Sled Dog

Wasn't broken.

You let me use my imagery my way and if other people are too stupid to figure it out, they can either ask me or suffer in Principled Silence.

[skeeter]

You just don't get it.  For some unknown reason you refuse to understand that conservatism is not a group of lofty, intractable principles that only a chosen few comprehend and fight for @roamer_1  You insist it is something so special, so separate, so unique that only a handful grasp its magnificence.

For a large swath of American citizens, cutting across every region, every economic bracket, every color, every creed  "conservatism" is intrinsic because it is the essence of the American spirit.  We don't need some smartass political preacher man telling us what it is, how we're bleeping it up or how we should respond to it.

When it comes to politics conservatism is like porn; Americans know it when they see it.

"Make America Great Again" is conservatism.  Donald Trump further distilled it to its essence:  "America First".   "Make America Great Again" IS a slogan.  "America First" is courageous --- and from the gut.

For all you principled conservative preacher men out there who keep insisting Donald Trump had no principles --- stop talking long enough to understand that Donald Trump was the single most principled conservative ever to grace the Oval Office. Everything, bleeping everything this man did promoted and strengthened America First, from: freedom of speech to freedom of religion to freedom of economic security; fair trade deals, secure sovereign borders, the right to life, peace through strength, to we worship God not government and America will never be a socialist nation.  THESE are conservative principles.

Had Ronald Reagan followed Donald Trump into the Oval Office you know damn well he would have left untouched:  Trump's EOs and international agreements on immigration, NATO's fair share, the end of the Paris Accords, the end of the Iran Deal, the Abraham Accords, the Kosovo-Serbia economic agreement, a defunded Planned Parenthood, a rebuilt military, our energy independence, financial support for colleges with freedom of speech policies, medical right to try, the tax plan, the removal of regulations, the China strategy, and his belief that Americans built this country, in spite of their government; and they own it, not the swamp.

Had Ronald Reagan followed Donald Trump into the Oval Office he would have known he had awfully large shoes to fill.

‘nuff said.

[Sled Dog]

Remind me how many times Reagan shut the government down to get what he wanted?

You clearly haven't studied Reagan or his Presidency.

Actually, there were a few temporary shutdowns, just like in every president since.    The Rodents only started making a big deal about "shutdowns" when the Illegal Alien From Kenya was having hissy fits and had near total control of the media.

Study the Reagan era some more.

https://www.history.com/news/ronald-reagan-government-shutdown-reasons

[roamer_1]

You just don't get it.  For some unknown reason you refuse to understand that conservatism is not a group of lofty, intractable principles that only a chosen few comprehend and fight for @roamer_1  You insist it is something so special, so separate, so unique that only a handful grasp its magnificence.

For a large swath of American citizens, cutting across every region, every economic bracket, every color, every creed  "conservatism" is intrinsic because it is the essence of the American spirit.  We don't need some smartass political preacher man telling us what it is, how we're bleeping it up or how we should respond to it.

When it comes to politics conservatism is like porn; Americans know it when they see it.

"Make America Great Again" is conservatism.  Donald Trump further distilled it to its essence:  "America First".   "Make America Great Again" IS a slogan.  "America First" is courageous --- and from the gut.

For all you principled conservative preacher men out there who keep insisting Donald Trump had no principles --- stop talking long enough to understand that Donald Trump was the single most principled conservative ever to grace the Oval Office. Everything, bleeping everything this man did promoted and strengthened America First, from: freedom of speech to freedom of religion to freedom of economic security; fair trade deals, secure sovereign borders, the right to life, peace through strength, to we worship God not government and America will never be a socialist nation.  THESE are conservative principles.

Had Ronald Reagan followed Donald Trump into the Oval Office you know damn well he would have left untouched:  Trump's EOs and international agreements on immigration, NATO's fair share, the end of the Paris Accords, the end of the Iran Deal, the Abraham Accords, the Kosovo-Serbia economic agreement, a defunded Planned Parenthood, a rebuilt military, financial support for colleges with freedom of speech policies, medical right to try, the tax plan, the removal of regulations, the China strategy, and his belief that Americans built this country, in spite of their government; and they own it, not the swamp.

Had Ronald Reagan followed Donald Trump into the Oval Office he would have known he had awfully large shoes to fill.

In reply, rather than fighting even more, I would invite you to take a sabbatical and pick up three authors and actually read them. Locke, Kirk, and Burke. - That is not the whole of it, by any means, But it IS enough to allow you to understand the things you are feigning to understand.

There is not a Conservative I have ever met that is not conversant with at least ONE of them, and I dare to say that the most Conservative on this board have gladly read them all.

You continue to try to make Conservatism malleable, so that it will fit into your worldview.

It is not, any more than the Bible is. Sure and you can take any philosophy and bend it to your will - Interpretation by eisegesis will only get you so far. But it will not give you truth.

Conservatism is a way of life. Conservatism as it touches politics attempts to remove obstacles of government from imposing upon that way of life. That is not what y'all are doing.

So before you accuse me of being high-minded and unknowing, perhaps it would be a good idea to know what it is you are talking about.

jussayin.

[Bigun]

Wasn't broken.

Yes! it was!

You let me use my imagery my way and if other people are too stupid to figure it out, they can either ask me or suffer in Principled Silence.

I will point out errors where they occur. Always have and always will.  TRUMP was a threat to business as usual in Washington and was going to be gotten rid of no matter what it took to do it.  There is only one party inside the beltway and that is the ""how do we fleece the sheep today" party!

[txradioguy]

Actually, there were a few temporary shutdowns, just like in every president since.    The Rodents only started making a big deal about "shutdowns" when the Illegal Alien From Kenya was having hissy fits and had near total control of the media.

Study the Reagan era some more.

https://www.history.com/news/ronald-reagan-government-shutdown-reasons

I studied the man and followed the news in real time during his Presidency. And before that his challenge to Ford in 1976. I don’t need a skewed account from an MSM owned website to tell me what I saw and read about with my own two eyes. 

[roamer_1]

A pretty good post (as usual), with the exception of my task likely being futile... 

Oh I dunno... I would vote for you in a minute... And that's saying something.   

[Cyber Liberty]

Oh I dunno... I would vote for you in a minute... And that's saying something.   

 

[roamer_1]

Hmmmph.

And who did the TEA Party elect?  Besides a couple of cranks?

What did they accomplish?

Why did they not accomplish ANYTHING.

So... record breaking overturning of county and state houses and governorships was no accomplishment? It's the biggest Conservative victory since the 94 Congress. And every new Conservative currently in Congress (or at least to my knowledge) came in on that wave.

Because they were infiltrated by both Rodents in their RINO disguise, they were destroyed as an effective political unit.  so they're okay because they became "Principled".   

To be expected - There's bad apples in every bunch. Still FAR more Conservatives ascended with the TEA Party than on any other machine since Reagan (though arguably maybe the 94 Congress would compare)

The Rodents couldn't infiltrate Trump, Trump was one man.

And there's your problem. One man can't do sh*t. And didn't. Messianic expectations are bullcrap.

[roamer_1]

I'm the most conservative person YOU know.

 
I guess to be fair I should say, that remains to be seen. All I have seen so far is slavering rabid Tumpism.

If there's a conservative somewhere and they didn't vote for Trump, they're not conservatives.  They're useless.  They have Principles and no honor.

That is just absurdity. Conservatives vote according to principles, holding those principles sacrosanct. It is little wonder than many, many did not endorse your prince. I know no one IRL who voted for Tumpy. My entire inner circle sat it out. Didn't see bumperstickers, nor yard signs. Never seen a maga hat in my life. And i am in a reliably Conservative county deep in rural Montana.

There is no honor in supporting messianic populism. If that is what you base honor on, then I wonder if you knpw what it means.

[sneakypete]

Oh.

Since NOTHING that Reagan did survived, I guess he was nothing, too, right?

@Sled Dog

Just to be clear to those whose minds are closed,NOTHING other than the US Constitution is supposed to be carved in stone in America. The idea was to have the maximum amount of personal freedoms,while maintaining a legal code that defends the rights of the defenseless.

If WE allow this to mean we lose all our freedoms to a dominant left because WE,THE PEOPLE,failed in our duty to protect them.

Neither we nor anyone else can have it both ways. We are either a free people,or we are slaves to the state. Free people change bad laws and enact new laws that protect and enhance our freedoms. Slaves and trolls to the state want the state to have all the power so they,being the parasites they are,can share that power.

Trump was making America great again. 

Yes,he was,and the truth is he had made more moves to return America to a free nation than any President in my lifetime.

 

The disgusting RINO Principled Conservative traitors hated the idea and fought him every step of the way.   

That's because they rely on the corruption to butter their own bread,and don't give a damn about anyone else OR the future of our nation. It's all about "Me,me,ME,DAMMIT!" to them.

 

[Right_in_Virginia]

In reply, rather than fighting even more, I would invite you to take a sabbatical and pick up three authors and actually read them. Locke, Kirk, and Burke. - That is not the whole of it, by any means, But it IS enough to allow you to understand the things you are feigning to understand.

There is not a Conservative I have ever met that is not conversant with at least ONE of them, and I dare to say that the most Conservative on this board have gladly read them all.

Conservatism in politics is like porn @roamer_1 and Americans know it when they see it --- it is intrinsic to a successful life.

Sorry, it's just not as special and complicated as you want it to be.  But, you and your pals can keep the book club going, we'll win the elections and the right to govern.  This is, after all, the goal of politics.   

[Right_in_Virginia]

‘nuff said.

Thanks @skeeter   

[roamer_1]

Conservatism in politics is like porn @roamer_1 and Americans know it when they see it --- it is intrinsic to a successful life.

Sorry, it's just not as special and complicated as you want it to be.  But, you and your pals can keep the book club going, we'll win the elections and the right to govern.  This is, after all, the goal of politics.   

Like I said.