Texas Supreme Court grants Paxton request to extend halt on Harris County ballot application mailout

[Elderberry]

Houston Chronicle by  Jasper Scherer Sep. 15, 2020

Texas Supreme Court grants Paxton request to extend halt on Harris County ballot application mailout

The Texas Supreme Court on Tuesday blocked Harris County from sending mail ballot applications to all registered voters in the county, granting Attorney General Ken Paxton’s request hours earlier for the high court to step in before a different order halting the mailout was set to expire.

Paxton, a Republican, has argued that Harris County Clerk Chris Hollins’ plan to send applications to each of the county’s 2.4 million registered voters would confuse voters and lead to potential fraud. A state district judge rejected that argument Friday, and Paxton swiftly appealed to Texas’ 14th Court of Appeals.

The appellate court denied Paxton’s request for an order blocking the mailout, deciding instead to speed up the trial by ordering Hollins and Paxton to submit arguments by Wednesday afternoon. Under an agreement between the state and county offices, Hollins was barred from sending out mail ballot applications until 11:59 p.m. Wednesday.

Paxton, who noted that the appeals court “offered no assurance” it would issue a ruling by then, argued in a court filing Tuesday afternoon that the Texas Supreme Court should prevent Hollins from sending out applications once the clock strikes midnight Thursday morning. The court granted Paxton’s request, ordering Hollins not to send unsolicited applications “until further order of this court.”

More: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Texas-Supreme-Court-grants-Paxton-request-to-15569723.php

[Free Vulcan]

If I have one big beef with GOP dominated state govts, it's that why the hell don't haven't you passed laws to improve election security in your state?

Mailing out ballots without requests should be statutorily illegal to begin with. Let them challenge it in the courts. That won't happen if the laws aren't on the books in the first place.

That's just for starters. Same logic for verified chain-of-custody. There should be no 'found ballots' allowed election night, and all voted ballots should be certified every step of the way from the polling place to the election officials office with defined procedures.

How hard is this?

[Bigun]

If I have one big beef with GOP dominated state govts, it's that why the hell don't haven't you passed laws to improve election security in your state?

Mailing out ballots without requests should be statutorily illegal to begin with. Let them challenge it in the courts. That won't happen if the laws aren't on the books in the first place.

That's just for starters. Same logic for verified chain-of-custody. There should be no 'found ballots' allowed election night, and all voted ballots should be certified every step of the way from the polling place to the election officials office with defined procedures.

How hard is this?

@Free Vulcan

Texas law regarding the requesting of mail ballots is crystal clear and nowhere does it allow anyone to send out mail ballots in a wholesale manner.  These urban democrats are just pushing the envelope to see just how much they will be allowed to get away with.

[Free Vulcan]

@Free Vulcan

Texas law regarding the requesting of mail ballots is crystal clear and nowhere does it allow anyone to send out mail ballots in a wholesale manner.  These urban democrats are just pushing the envelope to see just how much they will be allowed to get away with.

Good. The article made it sound like there's no law regulating that. It should be illegal everywhere.

[XenaLee]

Good. The article made it sound like there's no law regulating that. It should be illegal everywhere.

Since when has the left ever cared about what's illegal when fulfilling their goals?

[Free Vulcan]

Since when has the left ever cared about what's illegal when fulfilling their goals?

I'm talking about GOP dominated states. If they haven't closed the loopholes in their voting system, then they are negligent, and shooting themselves in the foot.

[Bigun]

Since when has the left ever cared about what's illegal when fulfilling their goals?

 

[XenaLee]

I'm talking about GOP dominated states. If they haven't closed the loopholes in their voting system, then they are negligent, and shooting themselves in the foot.

So am I.   Even if there are no loopholes, the left will do what they do to cheat a win. 

[Bigun]

So am I.   Even if there are no loopholes, the left will do what they do to cheat a win.

  They have proven time and again that they are willing to push the envelope to the max!

[Free Vulcan]

So am I.   Even if there are no loopholes, the left will do what they do to cheat a win.

True, but in the age of computers, there's no excuse for 'hey, we just found this box of ballots in the hallway in some random building' three days after the election.

Chain-of-custody should be documented air tight every step of the way in handling the ballots. The tech is there because businesses have been doing it for decades.

It's just like a bad employee. If you document everything, it's far easier to make their firing stick in court when they inevitably sue.

The Dems will try and cheat, you just make it as hard from them to do it as possible.

[XenaLee]

True, but in the age of computers, there's no excuse for 'hey, we just found this box of ballots in the hallway in some random building' three days after the election.

Chain-of-custody should be documented air tight every step of the way in handling the ballots. The tech is there because businesses have been doing it for decades.

It's just like a bad employee. If you document everything, it's far easier to make their firing stick in court when they inevitably sue.

The Dems will try and cheat, you just make it as hard from them to do it as possible.

And I think that, here in Texas, we do that.   But keep in mind that these leftists have been infiltrating our systems of government, at every level, for decades.  They're embedded now.   It's getting to the point of being ....like needing to burn down the house due to termite infestation. 

[Free Vulcan]

And I think that, here in Texas, we do that.   But keep in mind that these leftists have been infiltrating our systems of government, at every level, for decades.  They're embedded now.   It's getting to the point of being ....like needing to burn down the house due to termite infestation.

True, but the state govt has the power to dictate election procedure to the smallest detail. Identify the loopholes and weak points and close them.

I've worked in alot of factories. Every step is scanned and documented, someone has to sign off. Any that aren't, are red flagged real time.

Finished pallets are tagged, everything is under camera. Any movement of the product must be matched source to destination. And so on.

We got the tech to do this, it's just most states don't have the will.

I'm not pointing the finger at Texas, but simply saying that after ever general election, any GOP dominated state needs to review and close the loopholes the Dems exploit in the next legislative session.

Make it a permanent process of improvement and creating transparency, make it top #1 priority, and be relentless. Do a reverse Cloward-Piven. That's how you beat them.

[XenaLee]

True, but the state govt has the power to dictate election procedure to the smallest detail. Identify the loopholes and weak points and close them.

I've worked in alot of factories. Every step is scanned and documented, someone has to sign off. Any that aren't, are red flagged real time.

Finished pallets are tagged, everything is under camera. Any movement of the product must be matched source to destination. And so on.

We got the tech to do this, it's just most states don't have the will.

I'm not pointing the finger at Texas, but simply saying that after ever general election, any GOP dominated state needs to review and close the loopholes the Dems exploit in the next legislative session.

Make it a permanent process of improvement and creating transparency, make it top #1 priority, and be relentless. Do a reverse Cloward-Piven. That's how you beat them.

Well, we've been doing a pretty good job so far in beating them here in Texas.   But I'm a realist (vs. pessimist).   I know full well that it's only a matter of time before the leftists manage to enact laws that give multitudes of illegals the right to vote in our elections via amnesty.   It's probably already happening to some degree thanks to the drivers license voter registration BS.   What I'm saying is... I'm not sure that, short of an all out civil war, we're going to be able to stop the left.   Especially since so many GOPers seem to have either lost their nads, or never had them to lose. 

[WarmPotato]

I get the feeling 2020 will be a shitshow

[XenaLee]

I get the feeling 2020 will be a shitshow

[Victoria33]

If I have one big beef with GOP dominated state govts, it's that why the hell don't haven't you passed laws to improve election security in your state?  Mailing out ballots without requests should be statutorily illegal to begin with. Let them challenge it in the courts. That won't happen if the laws aren't on the books in the first place.  That's just for starters. Same logic for verified chain-of-custody. There should be no 'found ballots' allowed election night, and all voted ballots should be certified every step of the way from the polling place to the election officials office with defined procedures.  How hard is this?

@Free Vulcan
@Cyber Liberty
@mystery-ak
@libertybele 

Texas already has those laws.  This county clerk can't/or won't, read.
In past years, I gave a workshop to the Harris County Republican officers (maybe 30 of them) how to evaluate mail-in ballots.  Included in this workshop is how to evaluate mail ballots from nursing homes/retirement homes.  If you know how to evaluate them, you get rid of those ballots nursing home workers filled out for those voters.  When I finished teaching that particular thing, they all got up and started cheering.  One man hugged me.

After I left with the Republican State officer who took me there, she told me she had not told me about a man there who did not want me there.  He told her he knew all about election law and she was wasting time to bring me there.  Well, he was the man who hugged me.

The Texas Election Code is perfectly plain how to evaluate mail ballots, giving step by step instructions.  Evidently, no one reads that.

When Texas had (and has) a presidential election year, on election day, I was on my computer on a closed Texas Republican webpage.  All our election judges had access to that page and if they had trouble, they wrote what was wrong and it came to my computer and to a Republican lawyer.  I would write them, telling them what to do to fix their problem.  I had food/water at my computer and only left my computer for bathroom stop until polls closed that evening. 

All one has to do to know about your elections, is to buy the Election Code Book of your state.  Do that and you will have the answers to your questions for your state.  I really mean that, please do it to educate yourself about your own elections in your state.

More: If all of you would buy your state's election law book, we would have numerous states' election code books.  When there is a question, the person from that state, could look that up in their law book and tell us what that state's law is about that subject.  No more guessing - the truth in the law book.

[Free Vulcan]

Well, we've been doing a pretty good job so far in beating them here in Texas.   But I'm a realist (vs. pessimist).   I know full well that it's only a matter of time before the leftists manage to enact laws that give multitudes of illegals the right to vote in our elections via amnesty.   It's probably already happening to some degree thanks to the drivers license voter registration BS.   What I'm saying is... I'm not sure that, short of an all out civil war, we're going to be able to stop the left.   Especially since so many GOPers seem to have either lost their nads, or never had them to lose.

HAVA and particularly the motor voter aspect are one of the biggest blocks to election security and unfortunately that's federal. There are countermeasures but unfortunately alot of GOP dominated states don't take them or even challenge the law in court.

That's where the relentlessness kicks in. TX sounds like they are ahead of the other states, but the GOP as a whole needs to really up the game, and think out of the box, because the Dems never sit still.

[Free Vulcan]

@Free Vulcan
@Cyber Liberty
@mystery-ak
@libertybele 

Texas already has those laws.  This county clerk can't/or won't, read.
In past years, I gave a workshop to the Harris County Republican officers (maybe 30 of them) how to evaluate mail-in ballots.  Included in this workshop is how to evaluate mail ballots from nursing homes/retirement homes.  If you know how to evaluate them, you get rid of those ballots nursing home workers filled out for those voters.  When I finished teaching that particular thing, they all got up and started cheering.  One man hugged me.

After I left with the Republican State officer who took me there, she told me she had not told me about a man there who did not want me there.  He told her he knew all about election law and she was wasting time to bring me there.  Well, he was the man who hugged me.

The Texas Election Code is perfectly plain how to evaluate mail ballots, giving step by step instructions.  Evidently, no one reads that.

When Texas had (and has) a presidential election year, on election day, I was on my computer on a closed Texas Republican webpage.  All our election judges had access to that page and if they had trouble, they wrote what was wrong and it came to my computer and to a Republican lawyer.  I would write them, telling them what to do to fix their problem.  I had food/water at my computer and only left my computer for bathroom stop until polls closed that evening. 

All one has to do to know about your elections, is to buy the Election Code Book of your state.  Do that and you will have the answers to your questions for your state.  I really mean that, please do it to educate yourself about your own elections in your state.

More: If all of you would buy your state's election law book, we would have numerous states' election code books.  When there is a question, the person from that state, could look that up in their law book and tell us what that state's law is about that subject.  No more guessing - the truth in the law book.

If that's the case, then it's the same problem as gun control - enforce the laws on the books.

And provide the money to hire the manpower to stop it at it's source. Such as in nursing homes. No ballot should even make it to the election office in the first place unless completely supervised by both a Rep and Dem team plus state officials every step of the way. Family and nursing home workers both should have no hand in the process.

We have the same damn problem in Iowa, and it drives me nuts.

[Victoria33]

@Free Vulcan
@Cyber Liberty
@mystery-ak
@libertybele

Remember, each county/parish has their election.  Trump or Biden do not hold the election - your county does.

Sometimes you can find your state's election code book on Amazon, and that price will be less money than an election code book from your state government which may charge a large price for that book, the same book on Amazon.  Check both places before buying.

[XenaLee]

HAVA and particularly the motor voter aspect are one of the biggest blocks to election security and unfortunately that's federal. There are countermeasures but unfortunately alot of GOP dominated states don't take them or even challenge the law in court.

That's where the relentlessness kicks in. TX sounds like they are ahead of the other states, but the GOP as a whole needs to really up the game, and think out of the box, because the Dems never sit still.

I agree.

[Victoria33]

If that's the case, then it's the same problem as gun control - enforce the laws on the books.  And provide the money to hire the manpower to stop it at it's source. Such as in nursing homes. No ballot should even make it to the election office in the first place unless completely supervised by both a Rep and Dem team plus state officials every step of the way. Family and nursing home workers both should have no hand in the process.
We have the same damn problem in Iowa, and it drives me nuts.

It is the Early Voting Ballot Board in every county of Texas who checks every mail ballot - that board is made up of an equal number of Democrats and Republicans.  The Judge is of the party of the governor of Texas.  Due to that, I was always the Judge in our county (for 10 years until I moved from there) as we always had a Republican Governor.

In nursing/retirement homes, a worker there can only help ONE person, plus the worker helping that person must print his/her name, write it, and put his/her address there.  If that person does not do all of the above, the ballot is rejected.

[Free Vulcan]

It is the Early Voting Ballot Board in every county of Texas who checks every mail ballot - that board is made up of an equal number of Democrats and Republicans.  The Judge is of the party of the party of the governor of Texas.  Due to that, I was always the Judge in our county (for 10 years until I moved from there) as we always had a Republican Governor.

And that's a good thing, but I'm talking about a physical, on-site presence to make sure procedures are being followed to the letter, for example the above mentioned nursing homes.

We have some of that in Iowa, but it does not go far enough. There are still to many holes in the system that need to be plugged.

The biggest problem is the state doesn't provide enough money for that. It's should be #1 priority, even if you have to quadruple the budget and move money from somewhere else to do it.

I'm all for limited spending, but things that important need adequately funded.

[Victoria33]

@Free Vulcan

Please buy the Election Code Book of Iowa.

[Free Vulcan]

@Free Vulcan

Please buy the Election Code Book of Iowa.

I already know it. After 20 years of politics and running political campaigns as well as a fairly high level GOP official, trust me on that.

That's why I'm frustrated. It does not go far enough.

[XenaLee]

I already know it. After 20 years of politics and running political campaigns as well as a fairly high level GOP official, trust me on that.

That's why I'm frustrated. It does not go far enough.

You can bet that thanks to the Covid scare, there will be even less poll watchers this election.   It sucks, but reality often does.

[Cyber Liberty]

@Free Vulcan
@Cyber Liberty
@mystery-ak
@libertybele

Remember, each county/parish has their election.  Trump or Biden do not hold the election - your county does.

Sometimes you can find your state's election code book on Amazon, and that price will be less money than an election code book from your state government which may charge a large price for that book, the same book on Amazon.  Check both places before buying.

@Victoria33

I was fortunate that one of the first friends we made when we moved here is the County Recorder.  She's generous with her time, coming to the GOP HQ to train us on Voter Registration.  We man tables at local merchants several times a week signing people up. 

[Victoria33]

@Free Vulcan

You said, "HAVA and particularly the motor voter aspect are one of the biggest blocks to election security and unfortunately that's federal."
___________________-
HAVA is "Help America Vote Act".  This law came about after the Florida election mess in 2000.  It was and is, good law.  Keeping a list of voters before that law, was left up to each county/parish.  This law gave the voter list integrity to the Secretary of State, Elections Division, of every state.  That division checks every person who fills out an application to be a voter.  They have access to checks a county does not have the power to do, such as arrest/crime records, birth records, death certificates, passports, present address, etc.  If the applicant, based on the records, is qualified to be voter, the name is sent to the county to place the person on the voter list.  There are too many laws in HAVA to speak to them here, but if you have questions about some of it, let me know.  I was heavy into politics, the law part, when HAVA went into effect.  I was in the middle of that change with the Republican Party and the State Director of Elections under the Secretary of State.

Motor Voter:
Most people do not know how this works.  If a person has a reason to be at a Texas Department of Motor Vehicles, one can do paperwork to apply to be a voter.  That Department cannot put that name on the voter list.  They transfer that information to the Secretary of State, Elections Division, and they check the name as described in the above paragraph and if the person "passes", the name is sent to the Voter Registrar of that county to add the name to the county voter list.
_______________-
I said to everyone, buy a copy of your state's election code. 
You said, "I already know it. After 20 years of politics and running political campaigns as well as a fairly high level GOP official, trust me on that."

You need that law book; trust me on that.      You know parts, but I believe you need the book for the details.  My law book is 622 pages and I would have to use it if I was teaching it again and I have used it when writing about it on TBR.  I am tempted to buy Iowa's for you. 

Thank you for this conversation.   

Now, I will start again to read my copy of "Rage" by Bob Woodward, however, if you write me again, I will stop reading and come back here.  "Rage" is 452 pages, font size easy to read.  My Bob knows Tillerson (both oil business same company) and there are 17 pages of Tillerson and Woodward talking which starts on page 6.  That part is really interesting.  Tillerson was/is a fairly close friend of Putin (did not know that) and that is mainly why Trump wanted Tillerson.  Tillerson quotes Putin about US presidents.

[Victoria33]

@Victoria33

I was fortunate that one of the first friends we made when we moved here is the County Recorder.  She's generous with her time, coming to the GOP HQ to train us on Voter Registration.  We man tables at local merchants several times a week signing people up.

@Cyber Liberty

I was in charge of signing up voters for a Republican Women's group and told them to go to gun shows, be close to the entrance and sign up voters which, at the gun show, would be mainly Republicans.   

[Elderberry]

I couple of days ago we received a phone call from someone asking if I'd received my mail in ballot request. My wife told them that I, as always, intend to vote in person. And now yesterday I received the mail in ballot request. It stated that I was eligible as I'm over 65, but still, I didn't request the dang thing. I'm in Harris County.

[Free Vulcan]

@Free Vulcan

You said, "HAVA and particularly the motor voter aspect are one of the biggest blocks to election security and unfortunately that's federal."
___________________-
HAVA is "Help America Vote Act".  This law came about after the Florida election mess in 2000.  It was and is, good law.  Keeping a list of voters before that law, was left up to each county/parish.  This law gave the voter list integrity to the Secretary of State, Elections Division, of every state.  That division checks every person who fills out an application to be a voter.  They have access to checks a county does not have the power to do, such as arrest/crime records, birth records, death certificates, passports, present address, etc.  If the applicant, based on the records, is qualified to be voter, the name is sent to the county to place the person on the voter list.  There are too many laws in HAVA to speak to them here, but if you have questions about some of it, let me know.  I was heavy into politics, the law part, when HAVA went into effect.  I was in the middle of that change with the Republican Party and the State Director of Elections under the Secretary of State.

Motor Voter:
Most people do not know how this works.  If a person has a reason to be at a Texas Department of Motor Vehicles, one can do paperwork to apply to be a voter.  That Department cannot put that name on the voter list.  They transfer that information to the Secretary of State, Elections Division, and they check the name as described in the above paragraph and if the person "passes", the name is sent to the Voter Registrar of that county to add the name to the county voter list.
_______________-
I said to everyone, buy a copy of your state's election code. 
You said, "I already know it. After 20 years of politics and running political campaigns as well as a fairly high level GOP official, trust me on that."

You need that law book; trust me on that.      You know parts, but I believe you need the book for the details.  My law book is 622 pages and I would have to use it if I was teaching it again and I have used it when writing about it on TBR.  I am tempted to buy Iowa's for you. 

Thank you for this conversation.   

Now, I will start again to read my copy of "Rage" by Bob Woodward, however, if you write me again, I will stop reading and come back here.  "Rage" is 452 pages, font size easy to read.  My Bob knows Tillerson (both oil business same company) and there are 17 pages of Tillerson and Woodward talking which starts on page 6.  That part is really interesting.  Tillerson was/is a fairly close friend of Putin (did not know that) and that is mainly why Trump wanted Tillerson.  Tillerson quotes Putin about US presidents.

What I'm talking about here is not per se a matter of law, it's a matter of procedure and logistics.

In Iowa, we have the county auditor election manual which guides the auditor's office, who administers elections in Iowa, on how to do things.

It is of course expressed within the election laws, but is more specific as to procedure, and controlled at the executive level.

That is where the GOP needs to focus, if the laws are written such as to prevent fraud. More of an execution thing than a law thing, by not allowing anyone involved in the process any leeway to slide in fraudulent votes into the system.

That is too often where the GOP and GOP dominated govt drops the ball.

[Victoria33]

I couple of days ago we received a phone call from someone asking if I'd received my mail in ballot request. My wife told them that I, as always, intend to vote in person. And now yesterday I received the mail in ballot request. It stated that I was eligible as I'm over 65, but still, I didn't request the dang thing. I'm in Harris County.

Candidates and the state Republican Party can send applications out to people old enough to vote by mail.

[Cyber Liberty]

@Cyber Liberty

I was in charge of signing up voters for a Republican Women's group and told them to go to gun shows, be close to the entrance and sign up voters which, at the gun show, would be mainly Republicans.   

Good idea!  We have a show this weekend.