Author Topic: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?  (Read 6114 times)

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Offline SZonian

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What a week. Rough for all Californians. Exhausting for the firefighters on the front lines. Heart-shattering for those who lost homes and loved ones. But a special “Truman Show” kind of hell for the cadre of men and women who’ve not just watched California burn, fire ax in hand, for the past two or three or five decades, but who’ve also fully understood the fire policy that created the landscape that is now up in flames.

“What’s it like?” Tim Ingalsbee repeated back to me, wearily, when I asked him what it was like to watch California this past week. In 1980, Ingalsbee started working as a wildland firefighter. In 1995, he earned a doctorate in environmental sociology. And in 2005, frustrated by the huge gap between what he was learning about fire management and seeing on the fire line, he started Firefighters United for Safety, Ethics, and Ecology. Since then FUSEE has been lobbying Congress, and trying to educate anybody who will listen, about the misguided fire policy that is leading to the megafires we are seeing today.

So what’s it like? “It’s just … well … it’s horrible. Horrible to see this happening when the science is so clear and has been clear for years. I suffer from Cassandra syndrome,” Ingalsbee said. “Every year I warn people: Disaster’s coming. We got to change. And no one listens. And then it happens.”

[excerpted]

https://www.propublica.org/article/they-know-how-to-prevent-megafires-why-wont-anybody-listen?utm_source=pocket-newtab
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Online roamer_1

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2020, 11:32:28 am »
A pretty good article, but it doesn't go far enough... Prescribed burns, sure, but forest management, and grassland management is just as important. It is an entire ecology - Without the logging sales, there are no crews, and no machinery, and no roads for firebreaks and access. Without grazing pressure and haying, weeds out pace the grasses and can grow well into 10 feet high... All cracklin brown by the dog days of summer.

Even wildlife and ag husbandry get into the deal - The buckbrush all along this creek out back is ground pruned by the deer... There is literally not a single thing near the ground within the reach of a deer on it's back legs... So there is no dry fuels within 4 ft of the canopy... A fire could conceivably pass right under that brush and never light it up at all. Goats do the same. Heck, throw some hogs at a tangled mess of brushland, come back in a week or two, and it will all be gone. All of it.

And of course, mechanical removal wherever density calls for it. mow it down. Prune it up. park it out. Not only will it be far harder to catch fire, it will be far easier to control and put out.

This is purely bunny-hugger nonsense preaching to let it go wild. Especially in populated areas. but everywhere else too. The options are to manage it or watch it burn. That's really the only two choices.

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2020, 06:55:59 pm »
I think it's because they don't like any of the proposed solutions.  Some Capitalists might make a buck.
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Offline bigheadfred

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2020, 07:07:57 pm »
For years they have gone around and railed out (and burned) huge swaths of sagebrush and planted things like crested wheatgrass.

Other flora suffered. Fauna disappearing.

Guess what they are planting now?

Sagebrush.

I don't know if it is the law, but logging/timber companies tend to plant back more trees than they kill.
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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2020, 07:22:23 pm »
...
I don't know if it is the law, but logging/timber companies tend to plant back more trees than they kill.

They tend their lands like orchards.

The basic problem is that over a period of something like 5 decades, the Enviros have been given the ability to prevent common sense land management. Until the Enviros - in NGOs and in government - are hamstrung and rooted out, all states will be plagued by them in some way and degree. In CA it's forest manglement and wildfires. In other states it's declaring a man-made pond a "navigable waterway of the United States". Etc., etc., etc. ......
I am not and never have been a leftist.

If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2020, 07:48:22 pm »
They tend their lands like orchards.

The basic problem is that over a period of something like 5 decades, the Enviros have been given the ability to prevent common sense land management. Until the Enviros - in NGOs and in government - are hamstrung and rooted out, all states will be plagued by them in some way and degree. In CA it's forest manglement and wildfires. In other states it's declaring a man-made pond a "navigable waterway of the United States". Etc., etc., etc. ......

I know all about it.

The federal government owns 61.65 percent of Idaho's total land, 32,635,835 acres out of 52,933,120 total acres. Idaho ranked sixth in the nation in federal land ownership.


There has been a problem here of people owning a piece of ground accessible through another piece of property. Someone will  buy the first piece and block access to the other. Happened to one uncle. He won in court. Happened to some other people we know. Both pieces bordered BLM ground. My other uncle took his D6 Cat and made a road up to the back property. BLM guy showed up and asked what my uncle thought he was doing. My uncle said any GDed I want to. Road is still there.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2020, 08:27:06 pm »
Like I said, Capitalists might make a buck, and we can't have that.  It's far more important than stupid shit like Flora and Fauna.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2020, 08:53:30 pm »
A pretty good article, but it doesn't go far enough... Prescribed burns, sure, but forest management, and grassland management is just as important. It is an entire ecology - Without the logging sales, there are no crews, and no machinery, and no roads for firebreaks and access. Without grazing pressure and haying, weeds out pace the grasses and can grow well into 10 feet high... All cracklin brown by the dog days of summer.

Even wildlife and ag husbandry get into the deal - The buckbrush all along this creek out back is ground pruned by the deer... There is literally not a single thing near the ground within the reach of a deer on it's back legs... So there is no dry fuels within 4 ft of the canopy... A fire could conceivably pass right under that brush and never light it up at all. Goats do the same. Heck, throw some hogs at a tangled mess of brushland, come back in a week or two, and it will all be gone. All of it.

And of course, mechanical removal wherever density calls for it. mow it down. Prune it up. park it out. Not only will it be far harder to catch fire, it will be far easier to control and put out.

This is purely bunny-hugger nonsense preaching to let it go wild. Especially in populated areas. but everywhere else too. The options are to manage it or watch it burn. That's really the only two choices.
While the so called environmentalists rage at clear cutting, while those newly planted trees are growing there is habitat diversity from the cut areas growing up in grasses, and birds like Spotted Owls (among a host of others) live along those forest margins, eating from the meadows, hunting in the meadows, and nesting in the trees. The very cries of biodiversity are muted by the howls for preservation, and the critters suffer. It takes diverse environmental niches to support a diverse fauna.

BTW, someone might burn that beetle killed wood in a fire place (the horror! :terror:, the CARBON! ***hair on fire) or worse yet, use it to make something....Or fire killed timber. So much timber is rotting on the hoof because of environmental proscriptions now, it isn't funny, adding to fuel load instead of being utilized. A really, really, big part of sustainable resources is that you use those resources, not let them go to waste to the eventual detriment of the ecosystem.

But someone hit that nail on the head. Instead of collecting $xx a month and handing out t-shirts, someone might actually make money utilizing resources! That's anathema to the Communist collective.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 09:01:31 pm by Smokin Joe »
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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2020, 08:58:23 pm »
Like I said, Capitalists might make a buck, and we can't have that.  It's far more important than stupid shit like Flora and Fauna.

Its as simple as the average California resident goes ape shit over cutting down a tree. You cannot clear trees back from where you want to build a home without massive fines.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2020, 09:01:16 pm »
Because the enviro-whackos are in charge of the climate.
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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2020, 09:03:40 pm »
Its as simple as the average California resident goes ape shit over cutting down a tree. You cannot clear trees back from where you want to build a home without massive fines.

They, in particular, don't want timber companies harvesting the deadwood.  They might make a buck, and that must NOT be permitted!!  Better to bankrupt timber companies than let them do what comes naturally to clear the underbrush.

Heaven forbid somebody might make a buck.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2020, 09:03:48 pm »
Because the enviro-whackos are in charge of the climate.
No, they aren't any more in charge of the climate than I could own a moon crater for a home site, although the latter is an eventual possibility. They are exerting power over people and resources they themselves will never use. It is the ultimate Dog in the Manger gig.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2020, 09:05:48 pm »
They, in particular, don't want timber companies harvesting the deadwood.  They might make a buck, and that must NOT be permitted!!  Better to bankrupt timber companies than let them do what comes naturally to clear the underbrush.

Heaven forbid somebody might make a buck.
They don't want private entities cutting firewood, because, well, they'd rather burn it in the wild and smoke out people in States far away (Yes, even in North Dakota we had a few days of unreal haze from smoke from California wildfires). So they pollute our air rather than their own (and then bitch about fraccing). Typical Leftists.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2020, 09:06:38 pm »
They don't want private entities cutting firewood, because, well, they'd rather burn it in the wild and smoke out people in States far away (Yes, even in North Dakota we had a few days of unreal haze from smoke from California wildfires). So they pollute our air rather than their own. Typical Leftists.

They feel good about themselves, and that's the important thing.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2020, 09:10:13 pm »
They feel good about themselves, and that's the important thing.
Let the bloody wankers do what wankers do to feel good and leave the rest of the world out of it. They won't even have to drive/fly in to virtue signal, and the rest of the planet can have a life.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2020, 09:21:57 pm »
Let the bloody wankers do what wankers do to feel good and leave the rest of the world out of it. They won't even have to drive/fly in to virtue signal, and the rest of the planet can have a life.

If you let them do what they want there would be rioting in the streets with no fear of retribution...
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2020, 09:23:10 pm »
I

If you let them do what they want there would be rioting in the streets with no fear of retribution...
Only in San Francisco. I meant 'wankers' when I said 'wankers'. Maybe they could have their mass debate online...
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2020, 09:25:44 pm »
They don't want private entities cutting firewood, because, well, they'd rather burn it in the wild and smoke out people in States far away (Yes, even in North Dakota we had a few days of unreal haze from smoke from California wildfires). So they pollute our air rather than their own (and then bitch about fraccing). Typical Leftists.

How about the federal government fine California for the massive air pollution they cause? It is preventable.

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2020, 09:27:44 pm »
Only in San Francisco. I meant 'wankers' when I said 'wankers'. Maybe they could have their mass debate online...

Oh. You meant wankers.

Mass debate online. Isn't that twitter?
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2020, 09:29:01 pm »
How about the federal government fine California for the massive air pollution they cause? It is preventable.

The same National government that decided it's OK to wipe out the last of the California Condors is going to decide whether California should be fined.  How do you think that's going to go?
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline bigheadfred

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2020, 09:31:47 pm »
The same National government that decided it's OK to wipe out the last of the California Condors is going to decide whether California should be fined.  How do you think that's going to go?

Tough ?

Up in smoke.

Shot down in flames.

  :shrug:
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2020, 09:40:37 pm »
Oh. You meant wankers.

Mass debate online. Isn't that twitter?
Yep! and fecebook, when they aren't scrubbed.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2020, 12:25:24 pm »
A pretty good article, but it doesn't go far enough... Prescribed burns, sure, but forest management, and grassland management is just as important. It is an entire ecology - Without the logging sales, there are no crews, and no machinery, and no roads for firebreaks and access. Without grazing pressure and haying, weeds out pace the grasses and can grow well into 10 feet high... All cracklin brown by the dog days of summer.

Even wildlife and ag husbandry get into the deal - The buckbrush all along this creek out back is ground pruned by the deer... There is literally not a single thing near the ground within the reach of a deer on it's back legs... So there is no dry fuels within 4 ft of the canopy... A fire could conceivably pass right under that brush and never light it up at all. Goats do the same. Heck, throw some hogs at a tangled mess of brushland, come back in a week or two, and it will all be gone. All of it.

And of course, mechanical removal wherever density calls for it. mow it down. Prune it up. park it out. Not only will it be far harder to catch fire, it will be far easier to control and put out.

This is purely bunny-hugger nonsense preaching to let it go wild. Especially in populated areas. but everywhere else too. The options are to manage it or watch it burn. That's really the only two choices.

@roamer_1

Let's not forget controlled burns of brush and grass. The envio-whackos won't allowed controlled burns for "environmental reasons",but if you keep it burned,it doesn't grow and become a 20 foot wall of fire. The ONLY way to do this is to do it every year.
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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2020, 12:27:59 pm »
I know all about it.

The federal government owns

@bigheadfred

You misspelled "Feral".
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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2020, 12:31:10 pm »
Like I said, Capitalists might make a buck, and we can't have that. 

@Cyber Liberty

Not true. SELECTED capitalists,as in those with the "right" political connections who have given "gifts" to the "right politicians" make plenty of money.
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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2020, 12:44:09 pm »
@roamer_1

Let's not forget controlled burns of brush and grass. The envio-whackos won't allowed controlled burns for "environmental reasons",but if you keep it burned,it doesn't grow and become a 20 foot wall of fire. The ONLY way to do this is to do it every year.

That's right... We burn the ditches every year. It ain't the grass so much as the bachelor buttons, king thistle, milkweed, and kinnykinik. All that stuff is burned off in the spring so it won't add to the trouble in the fall.

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2020, 12:50:30 pm »
@Cyber Liberty

Not true. SELECTED capitalists,as in those with the "right" political connections who have given "gifts" to the "right politicians" make plenty of money.

Apparently there aren't any logging and timber companies on that list.  The Environmental wackos managed to put them out of business, and the forest service access roads have gone fallow so it's difficult to log, were it permitted.  Which it isn't. 

It's not an issue of who gets graft, because nobody's allowed to touch the deadwood.  They might make a buck at it.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2020, 12:55:30 pm »

This is purely bunny-hugger nonsense preaching to let it go wild. Especially in populated areas. but everywhere else too. The options are to manage it or watch it burn. That's really the only two choices.

There's a reason why they are called 'wild' fires.
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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2020, 12:59:12 pm »
Apparently there aren't any logging and timber companies on that list.  The Environmental wackos managed to put them out of business, and the forest service access roads have gone fallow so it's difficult to log, were it permitted.  Which it isn't. 

It's not an issue of who gets graft, because nobody's allowed to touch the deadwood.  They might make a buck at it.

@Cyber Liberty

You missed the unstated overall point,which is the globalists don't give a damn if all the forest burns away because in "Future World",where THEY are the Masters of the Universe,we will not need much timber because the population will have been "cut back to a reasonable level",and they will all live in cement buildings close to work.

Like in the old USSR,the ONLY people who will be allowed to live outside the designated work cities will be a few trappers,a few forest rangers,and the elites in management will of course,have their body guards,aides,house staff,etc,etc,etc.

Lumbering is a blue-collar "red neck" business,and rednecks are too independent to be allowed to live in the Murika of the future. Only cogs in the machine will be allowed to live.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2020, 01:14:12 pm »
@Cyber Liberty

You missed the unstated overall point,which is the globalists don't give a damn if all the forest burns away because in "Future World",where THEY are the Masters of the Universe,we will not need much timber because the population will have been "cut back to a reasonable level",and they will all live in cement buildings close to work.

Like in the old USSR,the ONLY people who will be allowed to live outside the designated work cities will be a few trappers,a few forest rangers,and the elites in management will of course,have their body guards,aides,house staff,etc,etc,etc.

Lumbering is a blue-collar "red neck" business,and rednecks are too independent to be allowed to live in the Murika of the future. Only cogs in the machine will be allowed to live.

I didn't miss that point, I just wasn't making it.   :shrug:
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Online DB

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2020, 01:42:55 pm »
California has set up government so that the city dwellers set rural policy.

The city dwellers set the rules on how farmers farm, ranchers ranch and the forests are managed.

All determined by people who have no clue on how their food arrives at their table or how nature works outside their local park.

And this is the result.

Online roamer_1

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2020, 01:45:56 pm »
California has set up government so that the city dwellers set rural policy.

The city dwellers set the rules on how farmers farm, ranchers ranch and the forests are managed.

All determined by people who have no clue on how their food arrives at their table or how nature works outside their local park.

And this is the result.

*FACTS*

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2020, 02:20:27 pm »
California has set up government so that the city dwellers set rural policy.

The city dwellers set the rules on how farmers farm, ranchers ranch and the forests are managed.

All determined by people who have no clue on how their food arrives at their table or how nature works outside their local park.

And this is the result.

How is CA's governance significantly different from other states? Other states' governors are not elected on a statewide one-person-one vote basis? Other states' legislative districts are not sized based on the basis of district population?

I agree that it is unjust that city-dwellers who are ignorant of agriculture can oppress and exploit farming/mining/rural regions of their state ( @Cyber Liberty ). I just disagree that California or "blue states" are uniquely constituted in a way that enables this.
I am not and never have been a leftist.

If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2020, 02:35:06 pm »
How is CA's governance significantly different from other states? Other states' governors are not elected on a statewide one-person-one vote basis? Other states' legislative districts are not sized based on the basis of district population?

I agree that it is unjust that city-dwellers who are ignorant of agriculture can oppress and exploit farming/mining/rural regions of their state ( @Cyber Liberty ). I just disagree that California or "blue states" are uniquely constituted in a way that enables this.

I would not say it's unique, but a matter of degrees.  The state of California has an unusually high population all around, and that means enough legislative districts are concentrated in the cities to create one party dominance.  What makes California almost unique is the "Jungle Primaries" where both candidates in the General Election could be Democrats.  Louisiana has them too. 

I would guess the Rats did that to California the day they got a veto-proof majority in the Assembly.
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Offline EdinVA

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2020, 02:38:59 pm »
To many college educated idiots making decisions the rest of us have to live with.

 Our legislators, at every level, are passing laws they do not read, do not understand and have no interest in other than the money and votes that follow.

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2020, 02:42:29 pm »
How is CA's governance significantly different from other states? Other states' governors are not elected on a statewide one-person-one vote basis? Other states' legislative districts are not sized based on the basis of district population?

I agree that it is unjust that city-dwellers who are ignorant of agriculture can oppress and exploit farming/mining/rural regions of their state ( @Cyber Liberty ). I just disagree that California or "blue states" are uniquely constituted in a way that enables this.

The legislature punts putting items on the ballot that they should be handling. What other state legislates via the popular vote how big a chicken coop has to be, how big a pig pen has to be, how many cattle are allowed on an acre of land, etc? They've been setting the rules via people that have no clue how any of that works. It is all based on the emotions of city dwellers. It is exceedingly stupid way to run a state. It makes California farmers and ranchers less competitive relative to those outside the state that aren't constrained by those rules.

Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2020, 04:24:22 pm »
Because the enviro-whackos are in charge of the climate.

DEWS...were used...again.  There are some video's out there, proving that. 

Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2020, 04:25:14 pm »
To many college educated idiots making decisions the rest of us have to live with.

 Our legislators, at every level, are passing laws they do not read, do not understand and have no interest in other than the money and votes that follow.

 :thumbsup:

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2020, 04:30:41 pm »
DEWS...were used...again.  There are some video's out there, proving that.

Hokey-tooter.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2020, 06:59:01 pm »
@roamer_1

Let's not forget controlled burns of brush and grass. The envio-whackos won't allowed controlled burns for "environmental reasons",but if you keep it burned,it doesn't grow and become a 20 foot wall of fire. The ONLY way to do this is to do it every year.
Burning off the dead stuff allows for new growth, too. I would wager the critters would rather eat new grass than that dead dry stuff that's been there for years, otherwise, they'd have eaten it.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline skeeter

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2020, 07:05:24 pm »
How is CA's governance significantly different from other states? Other states' governors are not elected on a statewide one-person-one vote basis? Other states' legislative districts are not sized based on the basis of district population?

I agree that it is unjust that city-dwellers who are ignorant of agriculture can oppress and exploit farming/mining/rural regions of their state ( @Cyber Liberty ). I just disagree that California or "blue states" are uniquely constituted in a way that enables this.

BTW speaking of fires, it is damn near dark as night here in Santa Cruz right now, 4 pm. Never seen anything like it.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2020, 07:05:52 pm »
The legislature punts putting items on the ballot that they should be handling. What other state legislates via the popular vote how big a chicken coop has to be, how big a pig pen has to be, how many cattle are allowed on an acre of land, etc? They've been setting the rules via people that have no clue how any of that works. It is all based on the emotions of city dwellers. It is exceedingly stupid way to run a state. It makes California farmers and ranchers less competitive relative to those outside the state that aren't constrained by those rules.
Absolutely right. The decisions should be made by people who have knowledge of the field and who will act in their interest. Ecowhackos are trying to maintain a static preservation of natural dynamic systems, something doomed to failure anyway. As for all this BS about "sustainability", farmers I have known are often working land that has been in or accumulated by generations in their families, and their interest aside from making a living is to preserve the means of production (the land and its fertility). Methods used and knowledge of the land itself (not in general,but that specific tract) have been handed down and improved on by those succeeding generations, or someone will get a shot at that when the operation fails. Those methods are similar over a broad area, perhaps, but are also unique to the varied characteristics of the land they are used on.
A one-size-fits-all requirement can only be administered successfully in the broadest sense, not down to minute specifics, or it will cause serious problems in food production, because one size does not fit all.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2020, 07:11:45 pm »
BTW speaking of fires, it is damn near dark as night here in Santa Cruz right now, 4 pm. Never seen anything like it.

We got it easy this year... a couple hazy days where you could smell the smoke... But nothing really... A couple years ago we were socked in for the entire month of august, so thick I couldn't even see the mountain I live next to. I could see my neighbor's house, in the haze, but the one's across the creek and across the road were gone. For a month.

And that is our new normal for at least a decade... After the logging and mills were shut off the decade before. Now the woods all around are so thick and brushy and full of blow downs and dead snags that it is all just a matter of time. So it will continue.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2020, 07:12:21 pm »
Apparently there aren't any logging and timber companies on that list.  The Environmental wackos managed to put them out of business, and the forest service access roads have gone fallow so it's difficult to log, were it permitted.  Which it isn't. 

It's not an issue of who gets graft, because nobody's allowed to touch the deadwood.  They might make a buck at it.
What the ecowhackos don't get is that even a tree has a use-by date. You either utilize that 'renewable resource' or it goes to waste. Funny how they want "efficiency" in the use of refined resources, but don't get that there is efficient use of sustainable (pardon the obligatory buzzword) natural resources.

As for the lack of water I keep hearing about, there is none. Seventy percent of the planet is covered with the stuff, it only has to  have the salts and other contaminants removed.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2020, 07:32:53 pm »
What the ecowhackos don't get is that even a tree has a use-by date. You either utilize that 'renewable resource' or it goes to waste. Funny how they want "efficiency" in the use of refined resources, but don't get that there is efficient use of sustainable (pardon the obligatory buzzword) natural resources.

Fact. I have walked through what they want... There are pockets of forest where no loggers go because it is too rugged, and where no fire can go because the trees are mature. Nothing grows under them.

But it is a fantasy to think that is the norm. Fire is part of the natural ecology. Nine times out of ten, if you leave that forest be, it will burn down in the next 20 years. That's just how it works. And I can prove it to you on millions of acres where logging has never been. Those ain't ancient trees so big around you;ll only get one butt on a logging truck. Most of em ain't 100 years old, heck most ain't 50. Even though Man ain't there, the cycle is always the same. It grows, becomes too dense, and a lightning strike sets a fire and burns it all down. Over and over, same ol song.

The problem comes where rural meets wilderness. Where forest meets town. Now you have investments on the land. you can't just let the thing burn though or a whole lot of damage will be done. Thankfully, you also have the logging industry that can mimic those fires in a more controlled fashion. Either parking vast tracts through selective cutting to produce larger more valuable trees, or by clear cutting and replanting whole tracts. This is what has kept those bad fires far away from human habitation.

The environmental whack jobs fail to see that reality, and now want natural forest right at the towns door. What they fail to understand is what happens, like what is happening to CA. You are inviting that fire to burn down everything. You are creating conditions that cannot be controlled. and suffering ensues.

Offline skeeter

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2020, 07:36:17 pm »
We got it easy this year... a couple hazy days where you could smell the smoke... But nothing really... A couple years ago we were socked in for the entire month of august, so thick I couldn't even see the mountain I live next to. I could see my neighbor's house, in the haze, but the one's across the creek and across the road were gone. For a month.

And that is our new normal for at least a decade... After the logging and mills were shut off the decade before. Now the woods all around are so thick and brushy and full of blow downs and dead snags that it is all just a matter of time. So it will continue.

Haze is one thing. This is dark. Cars had headlights on at 2 pm. Right now it is dusk, I mean 8:30 pm dusk, even though the sun should still be shining. Its really weird.

Online roamer_1

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2020, 07:38:01 pm »
Haze is one thing. This is dark. Cars had headlights on at 2 pm. Right now it is dusk, I mean 8:30 pm dusk, even though the sun should still be shining. Its really weird.


I know all about it. That's just about our every August.

Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #48 on: September 09, 2020, 07:46:33 pm »
Most of the men, know about DEWS. 



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« Last Edit: September 09, 2020, 07:48:45 pm by LegalAmerican »

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Re: They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?
« Reply #49 on: September 09, 2020, 08:21:52 pm »
Most of the men, know about DEWS. 

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I will NOT comply.
 
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