Trump on Seattle: ‘If We Have to Go in, We’re Going to Go in’

[libertybele]

Well, what have we here? A wide ranging discussion. Ooh, my favorite.

Thee hundred thirty million people and only two (effective) parties. That’s it—two; we’re a two-party country. That means if we want to change direction, we gotta either find a third party that can compete and win (not likely), or form broad coalitions within the republican party.

Democrats got that covered. Imposing strict party discipline they virtually own big city governments, and managed to elect socialists and near socialists across large segments of the country.

To change the party’s direction republicans should impose party discipline and work within the primary system, re @Mesaclone ’s 80/20 point. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your perspective, individualism is strong in the republican base so broad coalitions that have common agreement on ultimate goals have to dominate the party if we ever hope to reclaim our republican (capital R) government.

We gotta fight fire with fire and impose strong party discipline; starting at the top with leadership.

When was the last time a 3rd party won?  Or if there was even a time when a 3rd party won?  The GOP remains splintered because some are trying to change the direction of the party or swing the party back in the direction of conservatism.

Yes, we need to fight fire with fire, but it seems that the majority of our politicians are unwilling to do so.

[Chosen Daughter]

IMO, it will be the first day of very bad weather (for demonstrating)

This way there will be a minimum of casualties.

Nope, you should have seen it this last week. It dumped like there was a huge bucket being poured out of the sky.  Yesterday I went shopping and I couldn't even hardly see on the freeway.

[skeeter]

Well, what have we here? A wide ranging discussion. Ooh, my favorite.

Thee hundred thirty million people and only two (effective) parties. That’s it—two; we’re a two-party country. That means if we want to change direction, we gotta either find a third party that can compete and win (not likely), or form broad coalitions within the republican party.

Democrats got that covered. Imposing strict party discipline they virtually own big city governments, and managed to elect socialists and near socialists across large segments of the country.

To change the party’s direction republicans should impose party discipline and work within the primary system, re @Mesaclone ’s 80/20 point. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your perspective, individualism is strong in the republican base so broad coalitions that have common agreement on ultimate goals have to dominate the party if we ever hope to reclaim our republican (capital R) government.

We gotta fight fire with fire and impose strong party discipline; starting at the top with leadership.

This makes more sense than anything I've seen here in a coon's age.

Thanks for summing it up so nicely.

I would love to see Mitch & McCarthy kick some ass whenever a Mulkowski or Romney stand in front of a microphone & run off at the mouth while trying to get a little love from the rat media. Promise a primary challenge, or cut a committee assignment, or SOMETHING.

[Cyber Liberty]

When its like an Apocalyptic movie playing out on local news isn't soon enough for some real leadership?  Talking about defunding police.  Total anarchy?

I agree this is past peaceful protest.  This is total anarchy.  Putting all citizens in danger.

And when the Rat Governors demonstrate they can only bravely order hair-dressers and gym owners around, but not violent rioters because they are cowards, then it will be time.  Governors like Washington's Inslee try to buy themselves time by refusing to admit something has happened, but it's not working.

[libertybele]

When its like an Apocalyptic movie playing out on local news isn't soon enough for some real leadership?  Talking about defunding police.  Total anarchy?

I agree this is past peaceful protest.  This is total anarchy.  Putting all citizens in danger.

Total anarchy isn't here yet, but certainly my fear that that scenario could evolve very rapidly if there is no push back.  Perhaps it will get to the point where the GOP governors will defend law enforcement and the DEMS won't .... then I'd say maybe Trump has some valid reason to wait ... people will hopefully finally see for themselves what the DEM party is all about.  Then it gets back to strictly a political move rather than saving our Republic from destruction.

[Cyber Liberty]

When was the last time a 3rd party won?  Or if there was even a time when a 3rd party won?  The GOP remains splintered because some are trying to change the direction of the party or swing the party back in the direction of conservatism.

Yes, we need to fight fire with fire, but it seems that the majority of our politicians are unwilling to do so.

Yes, there was a time when a 3rd Party won, it was the Republicans who deposed the Whigs, and it's for the same reason the GOP has trouble with 3rd parties.  The Whigs could not bring themselves to stand against slavery so they half-assed their opposition to it, in the same manner that the 21st Century GOP half-asses our goals.

[libertybele]

Yes, there was a time when a 3rd Party won, it was the Republicans who deposed the Whigs, and it's for the same reason the GOP has trouble with 3rd parties.  The Whigs could not bring themselves to stand against slavery so they half-assed their opposition to it, in the same manner that the 21st Century GOP half-asses our goals.

 

[Chosen Daughter]

An Answer to Roamer's earlier post.

@DCPatriot
No, Conservatism works all the time. And always will. It is not idealist to adhere to what works. To adhere to and advocate for Truth.What you see as truth, is very different from what others see as truth...the reality is, there are roughly 340 million versions of what is "truth" within the nation. Who's truth prevails? We can't even agree amongst conservatives and amongst Christians on a single definition of truth...so rest assured, YOUR truth is of no more value than anyone elses. The answer, of course, is that we must use reason and empathy and a democratic process to reach a functional compromise. On this site, we are conservatives...despite your personal claim that only you and those in complete agreement with you fit that description. But the mark of civilization...and an absolute requirement for a functional Republc is the ability to compromise, and since at least half the country has a different version of the "truth" than we do, compromise is also "what works"...in fact, it is the ONLY thing that works short of assuming dictatorial powers.

Foremost, your concatenation of Conservatism and Republicanism is false. Either you are Conservative or you are not. Republicans have nothing to do wit it, having broken the charter made with Conservatives lately through Reagan. Despite your protestations, the Republican party IS the only politically functional repository of conservatism in the United States. Your being part of one rather small sliver of that conservative coalition within the party does not change this fact. If conservatives cannot disagree amongst themselves whilst coming together to win national elections, than the cause of conservatism is doomed...by those who claim their pure version alone is acceptable. Narrow minded stupidity that ensures defeat...that's the hallmark of the NeverTrumpists.

And again, pragmatism has nothing to do with it, Either you adhere to what works, or you do not. Your argument being 'We can't do what works because it won't work'... Which is hilariously circular... And advocates doing what doesn't work instead...  You misstate the argument...deliberately I think. The argument is that we follow the Reagan doctrine of attaining the most conservative legislation possible within a democratic process...if we can get an 80% conservative bill we take it...while fools who demand purity will damn such a bill because its 20% moderate or progressive. You forget, that we do not get to dictate policy...nor does the President...here in the real world we must operate within the realm of what is actually possible. Purity tests equal political surrender and defeat...which is why so few of us agree with your approach to politics, leadership and the Presidency.

I won't go up against the education system - The education system Republicans let grow and even fed when they should have risen in opposition (with the Conservatives). Too big to kill now... But your thinking is collective and only sees collective answers... The answer I have is like to my kind - Pull YOUR kids out of the education system and teach them yourself... Liberty has responsibility. Then at least your own are not part of the problem. I cannot change them all, but I can change my own.
The one thing that you should stand up against, that we should all stand up against...you determine its best to simply accept surrender. Let me help you out...home schooling will never be enough to counter the Progressive monopoly on education. That must be faced and fought....and yes its a fight that will last generations...and can never be "ceded" to the Left. Changing your "own" is just another type of surrender, because if we can't persuade our fellow citizens of the rightness of our cause...our cause is lost. So what you are advocating is...again...defeat and surrender.

So no, Standing on what's right and true is not just the right thing to do... It is the only thing to do.Sounds very pure and simple. In fact, all of us are standing for what we perceive as right and true...no less than yourself. We are as "true" of conservatives as are you, and unless all of us within that broader understanding of conservatism...not your narrow self approving version...can work in concert to fight progressivism...well...we will lose this country. Those too pure to work in this way will be at fault...that's not an accusation as much as it is a simple statement of what is.

All of that just to call those who don't go along purist?  Lengthy post just so you could blame others for what Trump is doing to himself.  Trump is not and has never been Conservative. He was a Democrat until 2012.  He said he was going to have a different party.  A workers party.  His party is Trump party of populism.  He doesn't say a word he doesn't think will give him votes and its risky business trying to please everyone.

Compromise is where we are today.  Anarchy.

[Chosen Daughter]

Total anarchy isn't here yet, but certainly my fear that that scenario could evolve very rapidly if there is no push back.  Perhaps it will get to the point where the GOP governors will defend law enforcement and the DEMS won't .... then I'd say maybe Trump has some valid reason to wait ... people will hopefully finally see for themselves what the DEM party is all about.  Then it gets back to strictly a political move rather than saving our Republic from destruction.

Problem being that Republicans are going along with the pandering.  You saw the Tucker video.  Even VP Pence is pandering.

[Mesaclone]

All of that just to call those who don't go along purist?  Lengthy post just so you could blame others for what Trump is doing to himself.  Trump is not and has never been Conservative. He was a Democrat until 2012.  He said he was going to have a different party.  A workers party.  His party is Trump party of populism.  He doesn't say a word he doesn't think will give him votes and its risky business trying to please everyone.

Compromise is where we are today.  Anarchy.

He has governed as a rock ribbed conservative on the vast majority of issues. You doubting his sincerity in doing so is irrelevant...as are the tweets and off the wall statements he makes. All that matters is action...he dramatically cut taxes, he IS building the wall (albeit slowly), he IS rebuilding our military strength, he IS reducing regulation and setting business free to launch the stock markets and reduce unemployment (despite the derailment of Coronavirus), he IS nominating a tremendous number of conservative justices to the courts including two Supremes, he IS fighting the Left at every step...which is why they are becoming, almost literally, insane.

Why the hell do you think the Left despises the man...why are they frantic to the point of madness to get rid of him? Let me give you a clue...its not because he's a liberal furthering their liberal agenda. Open your eyes for god's sake...we all KNOW the man is imperfect...but he fights the Left with all his heart and soul and fights for the conservative cause EVERY GODDAMM DAY...while folks like you undermine our conservative coalition and provide daily aid and comfort to the Left by relentlessly attacking him.

What is so MADDENING is that you can't see that you're defeating your own belief system...because either Trump wins this battle and passes the torch to the next conservative leader in this fight, or the Left wins and we see the end of our Republic. There's no in between...no getting rid of Trump and bringing in the kind of Religio-Conservative anti-Trumpist bloviator to defeat the next Lib President. There is no second chance...no reboot...if we lose this election. If the Left wins THIS fight, we get 25 million new Dem voters...100% mail in ballots and instant registration...state suppression of conservative speech at levels that will make today's college campus safe spaces look like the Continental congress.

The fight is now and its too late to look to alternatives to lead us in that fight...for good or ill we win this battle with Trump or we lose the country...forever. You can sit and bitch on the sidelines and pretend your sooooooo ethical in voting for some 3rd party nincompoop who has zero chance...or you can get in the goddamm fight with the rest of us conservatives. My guess...you lack the courage to fight, the discernment to see that its now or never, the humility to join your "impure" fellow conservatives, and the wisdom to see that any coalition must...well...coalesce... when threatened with extinction.

I don't hate NT'rs, I pity them...as Jesus said "they know not what they do". You are lifting the Left to a victory that will be end of the American Republic...and that is not melodrama...if Biden wins, you will not recognize this nation in 2028.

[Chosen Daughter]

He has governed as a rock ribbed conservative on the vast majority of issues. You doubting his sincerity in doing so is irrelevant...as are the tweets and off the wall statements he makes. All that matters is action...he dramatically cut taxes, he IS building the wall (albeit slowly), he IS rebuilding our military strength, he IS reducing regulation and setting business free to launch the stock markets and reduce unemployment (despite the derailment of Coronavirus), he IS nominating a tremendous number of conservative justices to the courts including two Supremes, he IS fighting the Left at every step...which is why they are becoming, almost literally, insane.

Why the hell do you think the Left despises the man...why are they frantic to the point of madness to get rid of him? Let me give you a clue...its not because he's a liberal furthering their liberal agenda. Open your eyes for god's sake...we all KNOW the man is imperfect...but he fights the Left with all his heart and soul and fights for the conservative cause EVERY GODDAMM DAY...while folks like you undermine our conservative coalition and provide daily aid and comfort to the Left by relentlessly attacking him.

What is so MADDENING is that you can't see that you're defeating your own belief system...because either Trump wins this battle and passes the torch to the next conservative leader in this fight, or the Left wins and we see the end of our Republic. There's no in between...no getting rid of Trump and bringing in the kind of Religio-Conservative anti-Trumpist bloviator to defeat the next Lib President. There is no second chance...no reboot...if we lose this election. If the Left wins THIS fight, we get 25 million new Dem voters...100% mail in ballots and instant registration...state suppression of conservative speech at levels that will make today's college campus safe spaces look like the Continental congress.

The fight is now and its too late to look to alternatives to lead us in that fight...for good or ill we win this battle with Trump or we lose the country...forever. You can sit and bitch on the sidelines and pretend your sooooooo ethical in voting for some 3rd party nincompoop who has zero chance...or you can get in the goddamm fight with the rest of us conservatives. My guess...you lack the courage to fight, the discernment to see that its now or never, the humility to join your "impure" fellow conservatives, and the wisdom to see that any coalition must...well...coalesce... when threatened with extinction.

I don't hate NT'rs, I pity them...as Jesus said "they know not what they do". You are lifting the Left to a victory that will be end of the American Republic...and that is not melodrama...if Biden wins, you will not recognize this nation in 2028.

Look around now.  Seems pretty unrecognizable to me.  I am not lifting Biden to victory Trump is doing that all on his own.

Right now I just read that Trump and Biden are within 1 point in Texas.  Texas!


Justice Brett Kavanaugh Confirms Fears Conservatives Had About Him

By Jeff Reynolds Apr 27, 2020 3:41 PM EST

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/jeff-reynolds/2020/04/27/justice-brett-kavanaugh-confirms-fears-conservatives-had-about-him-n386027

[libertybele]

Problem being that Republicans are going along with the pandering.  You saw the Tucker video.  Even VP Pence is pandering.

I didn't see the video.  I don't know of any Republican governors who have gone along with the defunding of police.  As for Pence, not much more that I can say about him then I've thought he's been a poor choice for VP.  Though he has always found a way to play defense for his boss and that's a positive.

[Cyber Liberty]

Look around now.  Seems pretty unrecognizable to me.  I am not lifting Biden to victory Trump is doing that all on his own.

Right now I just read that Trump and Biden are within 1 point in Texas.  Texas!


Justice Brett Kavanaugh Confirms Fears Conservatives Had About Him

By Jeff Reynolds Apr 27, 2020 3:41 PM EST

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/jeff-reynolds/2020/04/27/justice-brett-kavanaugh-confirms-fears-conservatives-had-about-him-n386027

The topic is not Bret Kavanaugh, nor your disappointment with Trump over appointing him. 

[libertybele]

What is so MADDENING is that you can't see that you're defeating your own belief system...because either Trump wins this battle and passes the torch to the next conservative leader in this fight, or the Left wins and we see the end of our Republic. There's no in between...no getting rid of Trump and bringing in the kind of Religio-Conservative anti-Trumpist bloviator to defeat the next Lib President. There is no second chance...no reboot...if we lose this election. If the Left wins THIS fight, we get 25 million new Dem voters...100% mail in ballots and instant registration...state suppression of conservative speech at levels that will make today's college campus safe spaces look like the Continental congress.

Very well stated.  Trump so far has taken this country in a more positive direction than Bush Sr., Clinton, Bush Jr. and Obama.  I have reservations about him and always have, but he has backbone and has displayed tremendous patriotism.  Right now I believe he is standing between us and socialism and hopefully he will continue to stay on that course.

With Trump I see a glimmer of hope for this Republic, with Biden, there is no hope.  None.  Zero.  Zilch.

[catfish1957]

Justice Brett Kavanaugh Confirms Fears Conservatives Had About Him

I didn't bother to read the article, but considering what the left tried to do to him in his hearings, I have a problem thinking he'd start siding with them.  He should be on a vendetta.

[libertybele]

Look around now.  Seems pretty unrecognizable to me.  I am not lifting Biden to victory Trump is doing that all on his own.

Right now I just read that Trump and Biden are within 1 point in Texas.  Texas!


Justice Brett Kavanaugh Confirms Fears Conservatives Had About Him

By Jeff Reynolds Apr 27, 2020 3:41 PM EST

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/jeff-reynolds/2020/04/27/justice-brett-kavanaugh-confirms-fears-conservatives-had-about-him-n386027

We don't recognize this country because the left is out of control and they are doing everything to ensure that Trump is not re-elected. Why do you think that is?  Do you think if they thought that he would play their games that they would even bother?   He IS the resistance to their agenda. 

Yes, I have reservations about Trump.  I also recognize that he is taking us in a more positive direction.

As for polls, they have proven to be unreliable the past several election cycles and are as biased as the MSM.  As for TX, the demographics have changed dramatically so much so that the Hispanics are nearing becoming the majority and many will be eligible to vote this election... same goes for Florida.  It really has nothing to do with the popularity of Trump among conservatives or independents.

[Cyber Liberty]

I didn't bother to read the article, but considering what the left tried to do to him in his hearings, I have a problem thinking he'd start siding with them.  He should be on a vendetta.

Not unlike Clarence Thomas.

[Absalom]

All talk, no action.  Didn't he say he was going to send in the military a week or so ago if cities couldn't get the anarchy under control?  Maybe if he had, Seattle wouldn't be occupied.

-------------------------------
Applewood, you're a voice in the wilderness, as Trump has been all mouth since a toddler.
Seattle, N. Korea, Venezuela, Spending; name the issue and his behavior and results match.
And his Fan Club is in full support w/every allowance/excuse/justification imaginable.
Seattle represents an insurrection that is seething in the bowels of our urban areas.
Be it the Paris Bastille in July, 1789 or St. Petersburg in Feb 1917; the result was
transformation and upheaval; and it always will be, as Napoleon and Kerensky well understood.
A wise man insisted it was far better the Ruler be feared rather than loved.
Ask yourself whether Louis 16th, Nicholas Romanov or Trump were/are feared???




 

[Cyber Liberty]

-------------------------------
Applewood, you're a voice in the wilderness, as Trump has been all mouth since a toddler.
Seattle, N. Korea, Venezuela, Spending; name the issue and his behavior and results match.
And his Fan Club is in full support w/every allowance/excuse/justification imaginable.
Seattle represents an insurrection that is seething in the bowels of our urban areas.
Be it the Paris Bastille in July, 1789 or St. Petersburg in Feb 1917; the result was
transformation and upheaval; and it always will be, as Napoleon and Kerensky well understood.
A wise man insisted it was far better the Ruler be feared rather than loved.
Ask yourself whether Louis 16th, Nicholas Romanov or Trump were/are feared???

So I can put you down in the "Trump's bad because he didn't act like a Dictator" camp?

[Applewood]

-------------------------------
Applewood, you're a voice in the wilderness, as Trump has been all mouth since a toddler.
Seattle, N. Korea, Venezuela, Spending; name the issue and his behavior and results match.
And his Fan Club is in full support w/every allowance/excuse/justification imaginable.
Seattle represents an insurrection that is seething in the bowels of our urban areas.
Be it the Paris Bastille in July, 1789 or St. Petersburg in Feb 1917; the result was
transformation and upheaval; and it always will be, as Napoleon and Kerensky well understood.
A wise man insisted it was far better the Ruler be feared rather than loved.
Ask yourself whether Louis 16th, Nicholas Romanov or Trump were/are feared???

@Absalom

Thank you for your well-reasoned response.

I keep asking what Trump is waiting for?  The terrorists are occupying Seattle.  They have threatened to occupy other cities.  But Trump supporters say he has to wait.  Wait for what?  Till other cities are taken over? 

He does this way too often.  Look at all his campaign promises that have gone unfulfilled.  Oh, his fans say, he was hamstrung by the so-called Deep State.  It was congress'  fault; it was the Dems' fault; it was his own party's fault, blah, blah, blah. 

I mentioned Trump said he was severing our ties with the WHO.  Hasn't done that yet.  When is he going to do it?  Whose fault is it that he hasn't?  There is always a scapegoat for his inactions and his failures.

Now we have anarchists taking over the country. I'm told Trump has to wait to see what the states and locals will do where this is happening.  Uh...looks to me like the states and locals are on the side of the anarchists.  They aren't doing jack.  So what is he waiting for?  What is his excuse?

So he makes these promises to get tough.  When he fails to do so, people (other than his loyal fans) realize he is a paper tiger.  They don't fear him because they know he won't do anything but whine, complain and blame others for his failure to act. 

As Eli Wallach's character said here, if you have to shoot, shoot.  Don't talk.


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[Absalom]

So I can put you down in the "Trump's bad because he didn't act like a Dictator" camp?

-------------------
Cyber, I suspect that you're a lot smarter than you usually sound.
You know that neither I nor any reasonable person wants Trump to assume the role of Lenin.
Put simply, when issurection simmers, talk encourages more while action produces less.

[Cyber Liberty]

-------------------
Cyber, I suspect that you're a lot smarter than you usually sound.
You know that neither I nor any reasonable person wants Trump to assume the role of Lenin.
Put simply, when issurection simmers, talk encourages more while action produces less.

I'm pretty sure about me, not so sure about you. Doesn't matter.

[Smokin Joe]

   To Whom It May Concern:

   @libertybele was only briefly a Member of our little TBR TDS Matters club and that was way back when it was considered Kewl to be in our club.  She was expelled for non payment of dues, most the rest of our Members have been banned due to the tremendous pressure from our resident Trumpers.  Today we are only a figment of their vivid imagination.

Yeah, when the nether trumpets start blowing about conservative "Never Trumpers", discussion is over. Preordained misconceptions of individuals take over and nothing is heard from there, nor can past demonstrations of support for selected actions of the POTUS be remembered. No skin color can elicit such ardent prejudice. Meh.

If we could get away from the crap, maybe we could have an intelligent discussion again.

[Cyber Liberty]

Yeah, when the nether trumpets start blowing about conservative "Never Trumpers", discussion is over. Preordained misconceptions of individuals take over and nothing is heard from there, nor can past demonstrations of support for selected actions of the POTUS be remembered. No skin color can elicit such ardent prejudice. Meh.

If we could get away from the crap, maybe we could have an intelligent discussion again.

I am pessimistic.

[Smokin Joe]

-------------------------------
Applewood, you're a voice in the wilderness, as Trump has been all mouth since a toddler.
Seattle, N. Korea, Venezuela, Spending; name the issue and his behavior and results match.
And his Fan Club is in full support w/every allowance/excuse/justification imaginable.
Seattle represents an insurrection that is seething in the bowels of our urban areas.
Be it the Paris Bastille in July, 1789 or St. Petersburg in Feb 1917; the result was
transformation and upheaval; and it always will be, as Napoleon and Kerensky well understood.
A wise man insisted it was far better the Ruler be feared rather than loved.
Ask yourself whether Louis 16th, Nicholas Romanov or Trump were/are feared???

Yeah, jump right in, **** it! Nuke Seattle! That will show them!
That'll teach all those alphabet protesters!


Oh, wait, that won't fly here. This isn't the 1960s, and calling out the National Guard or Federal Troops is, like, so mid-century.

Unless and until the people cry for the intervention (with lethal force if necessary) in Seattle or anywhere else in this country, it's better to gather intel and wait.
Haste will net a few, to the vociferous protests of the left, wall to wall, floor to ceiling, 24/7 howling across the cable bands about the Diktator Trump, right up till the election, with such ardent repetition that even those who wanted law and order reestablished will think they have been wronged.

Or, sit back, wait, study the networks, and take the whole bloody mess down. October surprises can go either way.