Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2

[txradioguy]

Doctors in this area are gearing up and most are only seeing patients that present with emergency health issues; otherwise they are cancelling appointments.  There should be absolutely no question that the fatality rate in those over 60 is higher and even higher if they have underlying conditions.  There is just no disputing that.  My husband's doctor told him to stay home.  He's heeding his words.  I also have used this doctor as well and I have nothing but high praise for him -- if he says to stay home; I'm staying put.

As for what has caused this viral spread in the U.S. and the intent of this spread, is indeed questionable and very concerning - just my opinion.

If this is such a national natural disaster why are there stories in the papers in the last few days talking about healthcare workers being laid off across the country?

[musiclady]

If this is so bad and is gone kill so many people..why don't we do this same kind of nation wide panic attack for the Flu?

Why wasn't there this kind of forced incarnation in our own homes in 2009? (H1N1)

There's a purposeful crowd psychology going on here to cause people to act like they are right now.

And it's really sad to see otherwise intelligent and logical people falling for it.

Otherwise intelligent and logical??  LOL! 

Logical thoughts........ perhaps the reason that H1N1 didn't cause a stir was because the hapless, useless, dangerous Barack Obama was in the WH.  Perhaps if we had some leadership in the WH then, the numbers of deaths from H1N1 would have been far lower.  Perhaps the voices saying it was serious then were drowned out by the protective leftist media?  Perhaps?? 

It's clear you didn't read the words I said, giving credence to the self-isolation and the very real need to slow the spread to give our hospitals time and researchers time to develop treatments and a vaccine (which is being done right now).  It's clear you prefer your conspiracy theory to the advice of thousands of medical/healthcare experts who have clearly articulated that this is a different kind of virus from the flu...

I don't.

And if you've read any of my posts on any other subject, you will KNOW that I am not susceptible to any form of groupthink, nor sway from the media.  I'm not just usually intelligent and logical.  I'm being intelligent and logical now.

So cut the personal insults and stick to the subject.

Stay well, my friend. 

This is real.

[libertybele]

If this is so bad and is gone kill so many people..why don't we do this same kind of nation wide panic attack for the Flu?

Why wasn't there this kind of forced incarnation in our own homes in 2009? (H1N1)

There's a purposeful crowd psychology going on here to cause people to act like they are right now.

And it's really sad to see otherwise intelligent and logical people falling for it.

This isn't the flu. This is more contagious, spreads far more rapidly, and the mortality rate for those that become infected is higher.  In my county, we have reached 245 cases with 10 deaths.  That's a 4% mortality rate v. 2% for the flu. 

Not everyone who gets the flu needs to be hospitalized; I am only looking at hospitalization rates for COVID-19 in my county and the rate of hospitalization is 20%.  The duration for those that recover from this virus is a month to 45 days; much longer than the flu.

In addition to these numbers the concern is having the hospital beds, ventilators, medicine, and other medical equipment necessary to assist those needing treatment as the numbers of cases and hospitalizations increases.  Added to that, there isn't the trained medical personnel needed.  There's been a shortage of doctors and nurses for years.  Doctors trained in pulmonology, endocrinology and cardiology are especially needed and properly trained respiratory therapists.  You can increase production on medical supplies, but there is no way to increase production of medical doctors, specialists and medical personnel.

The severity of the virus is real.  The severity of the "intent" of this virus is real and concerning.

Equally concerning is I also see and agree that there could be a purposeful crowd psychology going on here to cause people to act like they are right now; when we in FL are told to stay home, yet they are letting in 200+ foreigners who will be getting medical care that they need, something is up. When we still have open borders and Mexico's cases are rising, something is up.  IF they begin to start treating the Hispanics from various different populations coming across our borders and we are made to stay home -- something is drastically wrong.  RESIST!

Meanwhile trillions will be spent on infrastructure-- possibly now they will build that superhighway connecting Mexico, the U.S. and Canada ... meanwhile we are told to stay at home.  Are they going to use American labor??  Governor DeSanis even stated, now would be a perfect time to repairs roads and bridges while everyone is off the roads.  Americans, that is.

[DB]

If this is such a national natural disaster why are there stories in the papers in the last few days talking about healthcare workers being laid off across the country?

You read the article. Because all the elective treatments have been postponed to keep people out of the hospitals that don't need to be there right now. So all the doctors and nurses that have specialties in specific areas that are not related to this virus fight have no paying patients.

[txradioguy]

You read the article. Because all the elective treatments have been postponed to keep people out of the hospitals that don't need to be there right now. So all the doctors and nurses that have specialties in specific areas that are not related to this virus fight have no paying patients.

Speciality doctors have the kind of basic medical knowledge that could be applied in triage or ER scenarios to relieve the stress we're hearing about on those on the "front lines" at hospitals across the country.

They weren't sending home speciality doctors and nurses on the tragedy everyone likes to compare this "pandemic" to...9/11. 

So why do it now if this is the "biggest crisis the country has faced since WW II"?

[musiclady]

In addition to these numbers the concern is having the hospital beds, ventilators, medicine, and other medical equipment necessary to assist those needing treatment as the numbers of cases and hospitalizations increases.  Added to that, there isn't the trained medical personnel needed.  There's been a shortage of doctors and nurses for years.  Doctors trained in pulmonology, endocrinology and cardiology are especially needed and properly trained respiratory therapists.  You can increase production on medical supplies, but there is no way to increase production of medical doctors, specialists and medical personnel.

This is part of what makes this particular virus different from any flu in the past.

The chance of spread is significantly higher, and the number of patients in ICU is already taxing many hospitals in areas where there have been "clusters" of cases. ..... especially those where fast spread in nursing homes has occurred, and comorbidities are greater.

The most alarm I have observed in this is from those on the front lines.......the doctors and nurses who are treating patients, and who don't have adequate PPE's.  If we lose them, we lose protection and treatment for the rest of us.

And from my observation over decades, Dr.s and nurses are some of the bravest, least easily swayed by panic people in the world.  And their pleading for the public to stay home is something we should all be paying attention to.

We can all discuss online the why and how of this disease, but it behooves us to listen to the people who know what's going on at the front when it comes to how we are living our lives right now.

[Idiot]

I'm not sure if others have done this but....

I'm self employed and filed for unemployment, and filed for at least a $10,000 loan from the small business administration.  I'd recommend you all do this if it's applicable.

I had mixed emotions about doing this, but justified by figuring that I'd be paying for it anyway. 

[musiclady]

You read the article. Because all the elective treatments have been postponed to keep people out of the hospitals that don't need to be there right now. So all the doctors and nurses that have specialties in specific areas that are not related to this virus fight have no paying patients.

Many of them are just being transferred to other areas...... such as surgeons not doing elective surgeries who are training as ER nurses. And the Navy orthopedic surgeon I talked about above who is now in a triage tent who may not be working in his specialty, but has definitely not been laid off.

There are also people being sent home to rest so that when things get worse, there will be a more rested workforce as the cases in ICU's increase.

[Cyber Liberty]

[Bigun]

If this is such a national natural disaster why are there stories in the papers in the last few days talking about healthcare workers being laid off across the country?

@txradioguy

My daughter is a Trauma certified RN currently working for a 500+ bed hospital here in Texas.  Current occupancy at that hospital is 60 patients.  She isn't laid off yet (been there a long time and is the charge nurse in here area) but she thinks it's coming any day.

[txradioguy]

@txradioguy

My daughter is a Trauma certified RN currently working for a 500+ bed hospital here in Texas.  Current occupancy at that hospital is 60 patients.  She isn't laid off yet (been there a long time and is the charge nurse in here area) but she thinks it's coming any day.

I'll keep my fingers crossed they don't lay her off.

[musiclady]

The entire point of information, education and preparation is to avoid panic.

Equating the dissemination of accurate information with hysteria, is, well, pretty much being hysterical. 

[txradioguy]

@Cyber Liberty excellent advice...if only people would listen.

[Bigun]

This isn't the flu. This is more contagious, spreads far more rapidly, and the mortality rate for those that become infected is higher.  In my county, we have reached 245 cases with 10 deaths.  That's a 4% mortality rate v. 2% for the flu. 

Not everyone who gets the flu needs to be hospitalized; I am only looking at hospitalization rates for COVID-19 in my county and the rate of hospitalization is 20%.  The duration for those that recover from this virus is a month to 45 days; much longer than the flu.

In addition to these numbers the concern is having the hospital beds, ventilators, medicine, and other medical equipment necessary to assist those needing treatment as the numbers of cases and hospitalizations increases.  Added to that, there isn't the trained medical personnel needed.  There's been a shortage of doctors and nurses for years.  Doctors trained in pulmonology, endocrinology and cardiology are especially needed and properly trained respiratory therapists.  You can increase production on medical supplies, but there is no way to increase production of medical doctors, specialists and medical personnel.

The severity of the virus is real.  The severity of the "intent" of this virus is real and concerning.

Equally concerning is I also see and agree that there could be a purposeful crowd psychology going on here to cause people to act like they are right now; when we in FL are told to stay home, yet they are letting in 200+ foreigners who will be getting medical care that they need, something is up. When we still have open borders and Mexico's cases are rising, something is up.  IF they begin to start treating the Hispanics from various different populations coming across our borders and we are made to stay home -- something is drastically wrong.  RESIST!

Meanwhile trillions will be spent on infrastructure-- possibly now they will build that superhighway connecting Mexico, the U.S. and Canada ... meanwhile we are told to stay at home.  Are they going to use American labor??  Governor DeSanis even stated, now would be a perfect time to repairs roads and bridges while everyone is off the roads.  Americans, that is.

@libertybele

Is every death in your county caused by CCP Flu now like NY or are normal causes still in play there?

[Bigun]

I'll keep my fingers crossed they don't lay her off.

Thanks!

[musiclady]

@Cyber Liberty excellent advice...if only people would listen.

The only people I see who appear to be in a state of panic are those who are screaming in denial.

Again.......... the dissemination of information, education and facts does not in any way, shape or form equal panic, nor hysteria.

Perhaps if a few of you calm down, you'll begin to understand that.   Maybe the few of you who are afraid should start your own thread, and stay away from the calm informational one going on here.

Just a suggestion to help ease your fears.......

[Bigun]

A long time physician friend of mine responded to my tweet about my daughter's hospital thusly:

"Hospitals are on lockdown. No elective cases and trying to keep patients out at all costs. Why you say?  Well, the fact is that when the first COVID 19 patients show up the hospital ventilation systems are likely to be contaminated."

Wonder if that might have anything to do with what is going on in Italy, Spain, and N.Y. ?  Asking for a friend.

[aligncare]

 

[Formerly Once-Ler]

The only people I see who appear to be in a state of panic are those who are screaming in denial.

Again.......... the dissemination of information, education and facts does not in any way, shape or form equal panic, nor hysteria.

Perhaps if a few of you calm down, you'll begin to understand that.   Maybe the few of you who are afraid should start your own thread, and stay away from the calm informational one going on here.

Just a suggestion to help ease your fears.......

Great posts @musiclady I don't know that I can add anything but to agree that we are all scared, and it's very hard to have a rational response in that state.  Don't take it personally when others tell you not to have your own opinion.  It takes a long time to break old habits, and some of will fight it until the death toll become too hard to ignore.  Take solace that while our government is imperfect, none of us wants more death, and our government is listening.

[txradioguy]

The only people I see who appear to be in a state of panic are those who are screaming in denial.

Again.......... the dissemination of information, education and facts does not in any way, shape or form equal panic, nor hysteria.

Perhaps if a few of you calm down, you'll begin to understand that.   Maybe the few of you who are afraid should start your own thread, and stay away from the calm informational one going on here.

Just a suggestion to help ease your fears.......

I have no fear.  I'm not out mass buying anything.  I'm not buying into the myth of 200K dead and "we haven't hit peak yet".  I'm not screaming from the rooftops that we "NEED TO STAY INSIDE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!"

I'm not the one buying into the media induced hype/panic.

But thanks for your attempt at projection on this.

[mountaineer]

This thread on twitter is worth reading:

Sean Davis   @seanmdav

The IMHE model for the Wuhan coronavirus that the White House is relying on is garbage. It is using NY/NJ data and applying it to the rest of the U.S.
It predicted that over 121,000 Americans would be hospitalized yesterday over the coronavirus. The actual number? 31,142.
12:00 PM · Apr 2, 2020·Twitter Web App

Let's look at some state data. The IMHE model predicted that 1,716 people in Texas would have been hospitalized yesterday due to the Wuhan coronavirus. The actual number of hospitalized Texans? 196 people.

In Georgia, the IMHE model predicted that as of yesterday, 2,777 peole would have been hospitalized due to the Wuhan coronavirus. The actual number of people hospitalized in Georgia? 952.

In Virginia, the IMHE model predicted that 607 Virginians would have been hospitalized as of yesterday due to the Wuhan coronavirus. The actual number? 305.    ...

... All projection data can be found here: https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections.
All historical hospitalization data can be found here: https://covidtracking.com/data/.

If we're going to shut down the entire nation's economy to "flatten the curve" based on the projections of a single model, it shouldn't be too much to ask that the model approximate reality when it comes to hospitalizations.   ...

https://twitter.com/seanmdav/status/1245742822512381954

[Formerly Once-Ler]

If this is such a national natural disaster why are there stories in the papers in the last few days talking about healthcare workers being laid off across the country?

Fake News

[Bigun]

Fake News

Are you calling what my own daughter told me directly "Fake News" @Once-Ler ?

[mountaineer]

Ezra Levant @ezralevant

1. This is New York City's list of deaths from Coronavirus as of this morning. It's 1,397.
18 of those are people who died ONLY of the virus. The rest died of the virus and something else. Or perhaps they died of something else, but also had the virus.
https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/imm/covid-19-daily-data-summary-deaths.pdf
2:39 PM · Apr 2, 2020

2. That doesn't lessen the tragedy or the public health urgency of fighting the virus. But it suggests we can have a different approach to people who are at a low risk versus people who are at a high risk.
Protect people with underlying conditions. Let the rest go to work.

3. Perhaps the most striking fact from New York City's stats is that of age. Only one person under 18 has died (and he had an underlying condition. Yet our schools are closed.

4. Only 61 people under the age of 45 have died, and all but 5 had underlying conditions. According to this chart, under 45's are 61% of the NYC population. https://baruch.cuny.edu/nycdata/population-geography/age_distribution.htm
But under 45s are only 5% of the deaths.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Are you calling what my own daughter told me directly "Fake News" @Once-Ler ?

No.  Thankfully she is in an area that isn't a hot spot (yet), and our President's 15 day guideline has reduced the number of car accidents and gun shot wounds there.