Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2

[TomSea]

It had better be time to start posting articles from Newsbusters.org and other sources, as they try to blame this on the Prez. In the end, though, of course, I want the truth, however it falls.

CBS: Trump 'Acted too Late,' Left Us 'Unprepared,' and 'Costing Lives'
Nicholas C. Fondacaro is a News Analyst for the Media Research Center

Despite the fact President Trump banned flights from China from entering the U.S. back in January (a move praised by Dr. Anthony Fauci as crucial to the fight against the coronavirus), the CBS Evening News and White House correspondent Weijia Jiang spent a portion of Wednesday’s program pushing suggestions the administration had acted too slowly and it was costing American lives.

The assault against the President was vicious. “That change in policy comes amid criticism of the administration by governors nationwide over a lack of desperately needed medical supplies,” anchor Norah O’Donnell declared. Playing off of O’Donnell, Jiang discounted reassurances from the President that the supplies were on the way. “He says the country is preparing for the worst as questions continue to mount over whether he acted too late,” she chided.

Jiang also knocked Vice President Mike Pence for having reminded people that early CDC projections showed America with a low risk of a widespread outbreak. Now, they latch onto projections that show 100-240,000 Americans possibly dying. She followed up by touting liberal governors who were looking to China and praising the communists:

Read more at: https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/nicholas-fondacaro/2020/04/01/cbs-trump-acted-too-late-left-us-unprepared-and-costing-lives

Looks like we or at least, some of us may have to defend all of this.

This is more analysis, not sure if this is a straightup editorial, gray area.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

The spending is unnecessary.

I understand you think there is a deep state conspiracy of the President, the unanimous Congress, the state Governors, our American intelligence institutions, and the media to destroy America.  I won't be able to talk you out of it, but I do miss the old days when I could forget everything and just unconditionally hate on President Trump. When we hit the first 100k could you please use this avatar?



Perhaps I could re-live that purity of anger vicariously through you. 

[roamer_1]

Bingo!

You can buy em books... They won't hear you.

[txradioguy]

I understand you think there is a deep state conspiracy of the President, the unanimous Congress, the state Governors, our American intelligence institutions, and the media to destroy America.  I won't be able to talk you out of it, but I do miss the old days when I could forget everything and just unconditionally hate on President Trump. When we hit the first 100k could you please use this avatar?



Perhaps I could re-live that purity of anger vicariously through you.

None of the above actually. I’m just explaining the reality of the situation and the unhealthy (for the country) nature of politics and politicians.

[DB]

Not really. quasi-quarantine is not really quarantine. As can readily be shown in the city centers where this thing is exploding. At the personal level it may help - if housebound with adequate supply, you are basically not exposed. But that is not true in the aggregate. All of this is basically useless.

It is "exploding" because there's a 1 to 2 week delay from exposure to symptoms. New York locked down about 11 days ago. But you already know this.

Having millions get sick at nearly the same time would be a disaster for our hospitals. It would also be a disaster for everyone else that needs emergency care for any number of other medical conditions that occur in that same time window. You also already know this too.

We both know that it is likely most people will end up getting this. Either over a short period of time or spread out over more time. More people live with it spread over more time. More people go bankrupt spreading it over more time. Somewhere there's a balance in there. I don't claim to know where that balance is.

There is no magic solution that will stop the destruction. Hopefully we will find the path that keeps it nearer the lower bounds.

We're going to have to wait to see what actually happens to know if the choices made were prudent or not. Especially when compared to the outcomes of other countries that make different choices.

[roamer_1]

It is "exploding" because there's a 1 to 2 week delay from exposure to symptoms. New York locked down about 11 days ago. But you already know this.

Well, sorta... There is up to 2 weeks (and maybe even more). Symptoms can show up in as little as three to five days. But your point is taken - the 'carrier' phase is the problem, even as it is in every virus.

Having millions get sick at nearly the same time would be a disaster for our hospitals. It would also be a disaster for everyone else that needs emergency care for any number of other medical conditions that occur in that same time window. You also already know this too.

Right... As is happening even now in every hot spot. So where's the 'flattening'? And again, this is a logistics argument, not a medical one, and one would have been better to rely on logistics experts rather than the health system. As I have said before, the lockdown has created the static assets and the empty pipeline for resources in all areas.

We both know that it is likely most people will end up getting this. Either over a short period of time or spread out over more time. More people live with it spread over more time. More people go bankrupt spreading it over more time. Somewhere there's a balance in there. I don't claim to know where that balance is.

A false dilemma created by turning off the spigots. Causing mass bankruptcy was never necessary and is in fact counterproductive, with little to show for it - health systems in hotspots are overwhelmed anyway. in but days. So it has done nothing.

There is no magic solution that will stop the destruction. Hopefully we will find the path that keeps it nearer the lower bounds.

There WAS a magic bullet - Relying on superior medical systems and a matchless logistical capability. but instead, we shut all that off, just like every other idiot government on the planet. FEAR.

We're going to have to wait to see what actually happens to know if the choices made were prudent or not. Especially when compared to the outcomes of other countries that make different choices.

No, there will be nothing different to compare to, and what could have been cannot be known. But the outcome it would have had can be assessed.

In the mean time, all the fear-mongers and scare-mongers are adjusting the expectations downward, so that in the end, they are somewhere close to what it was all the way along. Just like what happens in polling.

Suckers. Chicken friggin Little.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

It is "exploding" because there's a 1 to 2 week delay from exposure to symptoms. New York locked down about 11 days ago. But you already know this.

Having millions get sick at nearly the same time would be a disaster for our hospitals. It would also be a disaster for everyone else that needs emergency care for any number of other medical conditions that occur in that same time window. You also already know this too.

We both know that it is likely most people will end up getting this. Either over a short period of time or spread out over more time. More people live with it spread over more time. More people go bankrupt spreading it over more time. Somewhere there's a balance in there. I don't claim to know where that balance is.

There is no magic solution that will stop the destruction. Hopefully we will find the path that keeps it nearer the lower bounds.

We're going to have to wait to see what actually happens to know if the choices made were prudent or not. Especially when compared to the outcomes of other countries that make different choices.

YOU'RE SPREADING PANIC!!!  YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM!!!   

Just kidding.  Agreed and good post @DB

[Smokin Joe]

Read somewhere today that states like New York aren't differentiating between people who died because of the Chinese Virus and those that tested positive but died from other ailments.

THIS is why people rightfully don't trust the numbers and the comparisons to 9/11 and the panic inducing "potential for 200K deaths" that even Fox News is running with now.

For starters, 9/11 was a one-off, one time, one day event. It wasn't contagious although people suffered injuries from recovery and rescue efforts that still cost those who responded their health and vigour, and have cost many their lives well after the event.


A disease is something different.
(Notice, AIDS isn't compared to 9/11.)
This virus is only partly contracted through behaviour, that behaviour encouraged by some of the experts where the virus is now worst. 

It's apples to oranges, though to compare 9/11 to COVID-19.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

For starters, 9/11 was a one-off, one time, one day event. It wasn't contagious although people suffered injuries from recovery and rescue efforts that still cost those who responded their health and vigour, and have cost many their lives well after the event.


A disease is something different.
(Notice, AIDS isn't compared to 9/11.)
This virus is only partly contracted through behaviour, that behaviour encouraged by some of the experts where the virus is now worst. 

It's apples to oranges, though to compare 9/11 to COVID-19.

I looks to me like we will be losing a 9/11 daily, in just a few more day to a week.

[Smokin Joe]

I looks to me like we will be losing a 9/11 daily, in just a few more day to a week.

Maybe we can collapse some tall buildings, knock down walls at the Pentagon, and make craters in Pennsylvania with COVID-19, too?

Funny, how with all the shit I was given for comparing this bug with other causes of death, it's okay for other people to trot out 9/11, but then maybe this is an act of international terrorism, too.

Or is it that the media (and assorted detractors) are trying to associate the horror we all felt at the acts of international terrorists in 2001 with a president who didn't have anything to do with either event, except to use the power of his office to try to slow this one down?

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Maybe we can collapse some tall buildings, knock down walls at the Pentagon, and make craters in Pennsylvania with COVID-19, too?

Funny, how with all the shit I was given for comparing this bug with other causes of death, it's okay for other people to trot out 9/11, but then maybe this is an act of international terrorism, too.

Or is it that the media (and assorted detractors) are trying to associate the horror we all felt at the acts of international terrorists in 2001 with a president who didn't have anything to do with either event, except to use the power of his office to try to slow this one down?

I'm so sorry this is happening to you @Smokin Joe .

The horror is 5,000 dead and 1,000 fatalities yesterday.  I clearly don't give a crap about the money, or pointing fingers of blame.  My comment is 9/11=3,000 horrific deaths, and we are trending toward 3,000 deaths a day.  You need not read anything more into my comment.

[txradioguy]

For starters, 9/11 was a one-off, one time, one day event. It wasn't contagious although people suffered injuries from recovery and rescue efforts that still cost those who responded their health and vigour, and have cost many their lives well after the event.


A disease is something different.
(Notice, AIDS isn't compared to 9/11.)
This virus is only partly contracted through behaviour, that behaviour encouraged by some of the experts where the virus is now worst. 

It's apples to oranges, though to compare 9/11 to COVID-19.

QFT

[txradioguy]

I'm so sorry this is happening to you @Smokin Joe .

The horror is 5,000 dead and 1,000 fatalities yesterday.  I clearly don't give a crap about the money, or pointing fingers of blame.  My comment is 9/11=3,000 horrific deaths, and we are trending toward 3,000 deaths a day.  You need not read anything more into my comment.

So you’re admitting China used this disease as a bio terror weapon and as such a terrorist attack on the world?

Because that’s the only way a comparison to 9/11 is even relevant.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

So you’re admitting China used this disease as a bio terror weapon and as such a terrorist attack on the world?

Because that’s the only way a comparison to 9/11 is even relevant.

9/11=3,000 horrific deaths, and we are trending toward 3,000 deaths a day.  You need not read anything more into my comment.

[txradioguy]

9/11=3,000 horrific deaths, and we are trending toward 3,000 deaths a day.  You need not read anything more into my comment.

Yes or no. Is this a terror attack by the Chinese on the rest of the world?

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Yes or no. Is this a terror attack by the Chinese on the rest of the world?

I don't know.  It's a question worth asking when the dying subsides and Congress can reconvene.  That would also be a good time to revisit who else besides China is to blame.

[Smokin Joe]

9/11=3,000 horrific deaths, and we are trending toward 3,000 deaths a day.  You need not read anything more into my comment.

Well, has it passed the 2362 abortions/day (Guttmacher Institute figure), but no one whinged about that, the real leading cause of death in the US. Hard to get much more horrific than shredded and chemically poisoned babies, but they do, they sell the parts. Anyway, that would be number one, ahead of Heart Disease and Cancer but those are ranked first and second because no one apparently counts dead babies.
The 2362 are pretty much preventable. But funding for that outfit (Planned murderhood Parenthood) is likely in either this or some succeeding stimulus package, even though the run was on toilet paper not condoms.

It is sad that any obviously intelligent person should lower themselves to passive aggressive bullshit to throw poo at the POTUS in hard times, but apparently, it happens.

[catfish1957]

I don't know.  It's a question worth asking when the dying subsides and Congress can reconvene.  That would also be a good time to revisit who else besides China is to blame.

Here are my thinking processes on this thus far.

(1) There is a lot of anecdotal stuff out there that this was an engineered bio-weapon, some plausible, some tinfoil.
(2) No 100% irrefuable proof yet though of (1)
(3) The Chicoms through prior actions have established of pattern of where they can't be trusted, or ever should be.
(4) I think there is a near zero chance that they did it on purpose.  No reason to unleash this on their own, citizens, the entire world, and not expect retribution from the rest of the world.  Not even the arrogant Chicom leaders would want to risk a world tribunal that would in a sense would be a trial mass murder.  Wild guess is that the probability of the likelyhood of this being an intentional bio-weapon is 10% at best
(5) OTOH, I'd also venture that there is a 40-50% chance that this is a bio-weapon that accidentaly breached containment.  Coincidence that ground zero was near their bio-research center in Wuhan?  Hmmmmmmm
(6) Lastly, and also at 40-50% chance is that this an Animal-Human transmission.  There is widespread acceptance that the Chinese also intitiated the SARS epidemic via their taste for exotic cuisine.  This shit has got to stop.  It is just a matter of time that a disease with the communicability of COVID-19, and the lethality of Ebola is realized.

[musiclady]

No they are doing what Italy did and amping all deaths into the "died from Chinese Virus" category whether it was a heart attack or COPD or whatever that killed them.

Let's say you have the virus..you're asymptomatic and yet you get hit by a bus crossing the street.  Should your death be lumped into the "death by coronavirus" stats for that day/month/year?

That is what's happening in NY right now.

No it's not.  You seriously need to quit buying into the media/Progressive panic hype being spread these days.

How are you and a few others going to feel about your hand wringing "sky is falling" mindset when this tops out at less deaths in the U.S. than H1N1 or the amount of deaths we experience in just a normal flu season?

Will you come back and admit you bought into the hype?

I don't think the sky is falling, and I haven't even listened to the media hype.

I know that's an easy accusation to make when you feel the need to accuse rather than discuss, but it's not the truth.  But I do understand why you feel the need to make it.

I have only discussed here, the reality...... the medical reality....... of what is happening.  I am listening to enough people I know in the field of medicine (and I know a lot, personally), who happen to be political conservatives and trustworthy people to know that we are dealing with a different animal here, and that social distancing is required to slow down the spread and allow the hospitals to prepare for what's to come.

FYI, one of my sources is a politically conservative, US Navy doctor (just came back from 3 years stationed in Okinawa).  He is a personal friend, who is an Orthopedic Surgeon, now manning a medical triage tent to determine if patients may have COVID-19

His words??  This is serious.  PLEASE STAY HOME.

He's not an alarmist.  He's not leftist media.  He's not a Trump hater.  He's not an emotional type.

But he IS medically educated beyond what he reads on the Internet...... which I'm guessing isn't the case with you.

So I will continue to believe, without any form of panic, the experts in the medical field, and not be swayed by people who don't really know what they're talking about.

Sorry about rejecting your insults, @txradioguy .  But of all the many people I know personally without any leftist agenda, I will trust the experts and not you.

btw, if this turns out to be not as bad as the worst cases scenarios (which, of course, it will), it will be because so many Americans actually took the advice of the experts, stayed home and slowed the spread, saving them from a very nasty death.

[jmyrlefuller]

FDA gives okay to Roswell Park and UB to test COVID-19 treatment
https://www.wivb.com/health/coronavirus/fda-gives-okay-to-roswell-park-and-ub-to-test-covid-19-treatment/

"... a new treatment for patients diagnosed with COVID-19. This is part of a national study using the anti-inflammatory agent “sarilumab.”"

(This is one I haven't heard about, and hasn't received as much attention as the chloroquine derivatives or remdesivir, so I'm not sure how effective this will be.)

[mountaineer]

University of Pittsburgh reports successful COVID-19 vaccine trial
    By ERIC POOLE Herald Assistant Editor | News 23 min ago

PITTSBURGH – Researchers at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine report initial success in animal trials for a vaccine to neutralize the virus that causes COVID-19.

During tests in mice, the vaccine was shown to produce antibodies specific to SARS-CoV-2, known as the novel coronavirus. University researchers said the mice responded with antibodies sufficient to neutralize the virus.

The researchers released their findings today in a paper published in EBioMedicine, published by The Lancet, a leading British medical journal.

The authors said they are now in the process of seeking investigatory new drug approval from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration with expectation of beginning human clinical trial within the next few months.  ...  More

[musiclady]

University of Pittsburgh reports successful COVID-19 vaccine trial
    By ERIC POOLE Herald Assistant Editor | News 23 min ago

PITTSBURGH – Researchers at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine report initial success in animal trials for a vaccine to neutralize the virus that causes COVID-19.

During tests in mice, the vaccine was shown to produce antibodies specific to SARS-CoV-2, known as the novel coronavirus. University researchers said the mice responded with antibodies sufficient to neutralize the virus.

The researchers released their findings today in a paper published in EBioMedicine, published by The Lancet, a leading British medical journal.

The authors said they are now in the process of seeking investigatory new drug approval from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration with expectation of beginning human clinical trial within the next few months.  ...  More

Praise the Lord for American ingenuity and medical initiative.  This is very good news!  Hopefully the FDA, with some heavy-duty prodding by the Trump administration, will cut the bureaucracy and get this moving.

[libertybele]

FDA gives okay to Roswell Park and UB to test COVID-19 treatment
https://www.wivb.com/health/coronavirus/fda-gives-okay-to-roswell-park-and-ub-to-test-covid-19-treatment/

"... a new treatment for patients diagnosed with COVID-19. This is part of a national study using the anti-inflammatory agent “sarilumab.”"

(This is one I haven't heard about, and hasn't received as much attention as the chloroquine derivatives or remdesivir, so I'm not sure how effective this will be.)

It is my understanding that the virus turns the immune system in the body against itself  that is why the drug for AIDS is being tested and used; it also causes inflammation in the lungs which is why this drug is being considered.  Most viruses and diseases that we contract cause some sort of inflammation in the body.

Sarilumab is a human monoclonal antibody against the interleukin-6 receptor. Regeneron Pharmaceuticals and Sanofi developed the drug for the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis, for which it received US FDA approval on 22 May 2017

ttps://www.healio.com/rheumatology/rheumatoid-arthritis/news/online/{1957db6e-f7a2-4e5d-939e-d4b5964b2dd3}/sarilumab-enters-clinical-trial-for-covid-19-spotlighting-key-role-for-il-6

[txradioguy]

I don't think the sky is falling, and I haven't even listened to the media hype.

I know that's an easy accusation to make when you feel the need to accuse rather than discuss, but it's not the truth.  But I do understand why you feel the need to make it.

I have only discussed here, the reality...... the medical reality....... of what is happening.  I am listening to enough people I know in the field of medicine (and I know a lot, personally), who happen to be political conservatives and trustworthy people to know that we are dealing with a different animal here, and that social distancing is required to slow down the spread and allow the hospitals to prepare for what's to come.

FYI, one of my sources is a politically conservative, US Navy doctor (just came back from 3 years stationed in Okinawa).  He is a personal friend, who is an Orthopedic Surgeon, now manning a medical triage tent to determine if patients may have COVID-19

His words??  This is serious.  PLEASE STAY HOME.

He's not an alarmist.  He's not leftist media.  He's not a Trump hater.  He's not an emotional type.

But he IS medically educated beyond what he reads on the Internet...... which I'm guessing isn't the case with you.

So I will continue to believe, without any form of panic, the experts in the medical field, and not be swayed by people who don't really know what they're talking about.

Sorry about rejecting your insults, @txradioguy .  But of all the many people I know personally without any leftist agenda, I will trust the experts and not you.

btw, if this turns out to be not as bad as the worst cases scenarios (which, of course, it will), it will be because so many Americans actually took the advice of the experts, stayed home and slowed the spread, saving them from a very nasty death.

If this is so bad and is gone kill so many people..why don't we do this same kind of nation wide panic attack for the Flu?

Why wasn't there this kind of forced incarnation in our own homes in 2009? (H1N1)

There's a purposeful crowd psychology going on here to cause people to act like they are right now.

And it's really sad to see otherwise intelligent and logical people falling for it.

[libertybele]

I don't think the sky is falling, and I haven't even listened to the media hype.

I know that's an easy accusation to make when you feel the need to accuse rather than discuss, but it's not the truth.  But I do understand why you feel the need to make it.

I have only discussed here, the reality...... the medical reality....... of what is happening.  I am listening to enough people I know in the field of medicine (and I know a lot, personally), who happen to be political conservatives and trustworthy people to know that we are dealing with a different animal here, and that social distancing is required to slow down the spread and allow the hospitals to prepare for what's to come.

FYI, one of my sources is a politically conservative, US Navy doctor (just came back from 3 years stationed in Okinawa).  He is a personal friend, who is an Orthopedic Surgeon, now manning a medical triage tent to determine if patients may have COVID-19

His words??  This is serious.  PLEASE STAY HOME.

He's not an alarmist.  He's not leftist media.  He's not a Trump hater.  He's not an emotional type.

But he IS medically educated beyond what he reads on the Internet...... which I'm guessing isn't the case with you.

So I will continue to believe, without any form of panic, the experts in the medical field, and not be swayed by people who don't really know what they're talking about.

Sorry about rejecting your insults, @txradioguy .  But of all the many people I know personally without any leftist agenda, I will trust the experts and not you.

btw, if this turns out to be not as bad as the worst cases scenarios (which, of course, it will), it will be because so many Americans actually took the advice of the experts, stayed home and slowed the spread, saving them from a very nasty death.

Doctors in this area are gearing up and most are only seeing patients that present with emergency health issues; otherwise they are cancelling appointments.  There should be absolutely no question that the fatality rate in those over 60 is higher and even higher if they have underlying conditions.  There is just no disputing that.  My husband's doctor told him to stay home.  He's heeding his words.  I also have used this doctor as well and I have nothing but high praise for him -- if he says to stay home; I'm staying put.

As for what has caused this viral spread in the U.S. and the intent of this spread, is indeed questionable and very concerning - just my opinion.

[txradioguy]

Doctors in this area are gearing up and most are only seeing patients that present with emergency health issues; otherwise they are cancelling appointments.  There should be absolutely no question that the fatality rate in those over 60 is higher and even higher if they have underlying conditions.  There is just no disputing that.  My husband's doctor told him to stay home.  He's heeding his words.  I also have used this doctor as well and I have nothing but high praise for him -- if he says to stay home; I'm staying put.

As for what has caused this viral spread in the U.S. and the intent of this spread, is indeed questionable and very concerning - just my opinion.

If this is such a national natural disaster why are there stories in the papers in the last few days talking about healthcare workers being laid off across the country?

[musiclady]

If this is so bad and is gone kill so many people..why don't we do this same kind of nation wide panic attack for the Flu?

Why wasn't there this kind of forced incarnation in our own homes in 2009? (H1N1)

There's a purposeful crowd psychology going on here to cause people to act like they are right now.

And it's really sad to see otherwise intelligent and logical people falling for it.

Otherwise intelligent and logical??  LOL! 

Logical thoughts........ perhaps the reason that H1N1 didn't cause a stir was because the hapless, useless, dangerous Barack Obama was in the WH.  Perhaps if we had some leadership in the WH then, the numbers of deaths from H1N1 would have been far lower.  Perhaps the voices saying it was serious then were drowned out by the protective leftist media?  Perhaps?? 

It's clear you didn't read the words I said, giving credence to the self-isolation and the very real need to slow the spread to give our hospitals time and researchers time to develop treatments and a vaccine (which is being done right now).  It's clear you prefer your conspiracy theory to the advice of thousands of medical/healthcare experts who have clearly articulated that this is a different kind of virus from the flu...

I don't.

And if you've read any of my posts on any other subject, you will KNOW that I am not susceptible to any form of groupthink, nor sway from the media.  I'm not just usually intelligent and logical.  I'm being intelligent and logical now.

So cut the personal insults and stick to the subject.

Stay well, my friend. 

This is real.

[libertybele]

If this is so bad and is gone kill so many people..why don't we do this same kind of nation wide panic attack for the Flu?

Why wasn't there this kind of forced incarnation in our own homes in 2009? (H1N1)

There's a purposeful crowd psychology going on here to cause people to act like they are right now.

And it's really sad to see otherwise intelligent and logical people falling for it.

This isn't the flu. This is more contagious, spreads far more rapidly, and the mortality rate for those that become infected is higher.  In my county, we have reached 245 cases with 10 deaths.  That's a 4% mortality rate v. 2% for the flu. 

Not everyone who gets the flu needs to be hospitalized; I am only looking at hospitalization rates for COVID-19 in my county and the rate of hospitalization is 20%.  The duration for those that recover from this virus is a month to 45 days; much longer than the flu.

In addition to these numbers the concern is having the hospital beds, ventilators, medicine, and other medical equipment necessary to assist those needing treatment as the numbers of cases and hospitalizations increases.  Added to that, there isn't the trained medical personnel needed.  There's been a shortage of doctors and nurses for years.  Doctors trained in pulmonology, endocrinology and cardiology are especially needed and properly trained respiratory therapists.  You can increase production on medical supplies, but there is no way to increase production of medical doctors, specialists and medical personnel.

The severity of the virus is real.  The severity of the "intent" of this virus is real and concerning.

Equally concerning is I also see and agree that there could be a purposeful crowd psychology going on here to cause people to act like they are right now; when we in FL are told to stay home, yet they are letting in 200+ foreigners who will be getting medical care that they need, something is up. When we still have open borders and Mexico's cases are rising, something is up.  IF they begin to start treating the Hispanics from various different populations coming across our borders and we are made to stay home -- something is drastically wrong.  RESIST!

Meanwhile trillions will be spent on infrastructure-- possibly now they will build that superhighway connecting Mexico, the U.S. and Canada ... meanwhile we are told to stay at home.  Are they going to use American labor??  Governor DeSanis even stated, now would be a perfect time to repairs roads and bridges while everyone is off the roads.  Americans, that is.

[DB]

If this is such a national natural disaster why are there stories in the papers in the last few days talking about healthcare workers being laid off across the country?

You read the article. Because all the elective treatments have been postponed to keep people out of the hospitals that don't need to be there right now. So all the doctors and nurses that have specialties in specific areas that are not related to this virus fight have no paying patients.

[txradioguy]

You read the article. Because all the elective treatments have been postponed to keep people out of the hospitals that don't need to be there right now. So all the doctors and nurses that have specialties in specific areas that are not related to this virus fight have no paying patients.

Speciality doctors have the kind of basic medical knowledge that could be applied in triage or ER scenarios to relieve the stress we're hearing about on those on the "front lines" at hospitals across the country.

They weren't sending home speciality doctors and nurses on the tragedy everyone likes to compare this "pandemic" to...9/11. 

So why do it now if this is the "biggest crisis the country has faced since WW II"?

[musiclady]

In addition to these numbers the concern is having the hospital beds, ventilators, medicine, and other medical equipment necessary to assist those needing treatment as the numbers of cases and hospitalizations increases.  Added to that, there isn't the trained medical personnel needed.  There's been a shortage of doctors and nurses for years.  Doctors trained in pulmonology, endocrinology and cardiology are especially needed and properly trained respiratory therapists.  You can increase production on medical supplies, but there is no way to increase production of medical doctors, specialists and medical personnel.

This is part of what makes this particular virus different from any flu in the past.

The chance of spread is significantly higher, and the number of patients in ICU is already taxing many hospitals in areas where there have been "clusters" of cases. ..... especially those where fast spread in nursing homes has occurred, and comorbidities are greater.

The most alarm I have observed in this is from those on the front lines.......the doctors and nurses who are treating patients, and who don't have adequate PPE's.  If we lose them, we lose protection and treatment for the rest of us.

And from my observation over decades, Dr.s and nurses are some of the bravest, least easily swayed by panic people in the world.  And their pleading for the public to stay home is something we should all be paying attention to.

We can all discuss online the why and how of this disease, but it behooves us to listen to the people who know what's going on at the front when it comes to how we are living our lives right now.

[Idiot]

I'm not sure if others have done this but....

I'm self employed and filed for unemployment, and filed for at least a $10,000 loan from the small business administration.  I'd recommend you all do this if it's applicable.

I had mixed emotions about doing this, but justified by figuring that I'd be paying for it anyway. 

[musiclady]

You read the article. Because all the elective treatments have been postponed to keep people out of the hospitals that don't need to be there right now. So all the doctors and nurses that have specialties in specific areas that are not related to this virus fight have no paying patients.

Many of them are just being transferred to other areas...... such as surgeons not doing elective surgeries who are training as ER nurses. And the Navy orthopedic surgeon I talked about above who is now in a triage tent who may not be working in his specialty, but has definitely not been laid off.

There are also people being sent home to rest so that when things get worse, there will be a more rested workforce as the cases in ICU's increase.

[Cyber Liberty]

[Bigun]

If this is such a national natural disaster why are there stories in the papers in the last few days talking about healthcare workers being laid off across the country?

@txradioguy

My daughter is a Trauma certified RN currently working for a 500+ bed hospital here in Texas.  Current occupancy at that hospital is 60 patients.  She isn't laid off yet (been there a long time and is the charge nurse in here area) but she thinks it's coming any day.

[txradioguy]

@txradioguy

My daughter is a Trauma certified RN currently working for a 500+ bed hospital here in Texas.  Current occupancy at that hospital is 60 patients.  She isn't laid off yet (been there a long time and is the charge nurse in here area) but she thinks it's coming any day.

I'll keep my fingers crossed they don't lay her off.

[musiclady]

The entire point of information, education and preparation is to avoid panic.

Equating the dissemination of accurate information with hysteria, is, well, pretty much being hysterical. 

[txradioguy]

@Cyber Liberty excellent advice...if only people would listen.

[Bigun]

This isn't the flu. This is more contagious, spreads far more rapidly, and the mortality rate for those that become infected is higher.  In my county, we have reached 245 cases with 10 deaths.  That's a 4% mortality rate v. 2% for the flu. 

Not everyone who gets the flu needs to be hospitalized; I am only looking at hospitalization rates for COVID-19 in my county and the rate of hospitalization is 20%.  The duration for those that recover from this virus is a month to 45 days; much longer than the flu.

In addition to these numbers the concern is having the hospital beds, ventilators, medicine, and other medical equipment necessary to assist those needing treatment as the numbers of cases and hospitalizations increases.  Added to that, there isn't the trained medical personnel needed.  There's been a shortage of doctors and nurses for years.  Doctors trained in pulmonology, endocrinology and cardiology are especially needed and properly trained respiratory therapists.  You can increase production on medical supplies, but there is no way to increase production of medical doctors, specialists and medical personnel.

The severity of the virus is real.  The severity of the "intent" of this virus is real and concerning.

Equally concerning is I also see and agree that there could be a purposeful crowd psychology going on here to cause people to act like they are right now; when we in FL are told to stay home, yet they are letting in 200+ foreigners who will be getting medical care that they need, something is up. When we still have open borders and Mexico's cases are rising, something is up.  IF they begin to start treating the Hispanics from various different populations coming across our borders and we are made to stay home -- something is drastically wrong.  RESIST!

Meanwhile trillions will be spent on infrastructure-- possibly now they will build that superhighway connecting Mexico, the U.S. and Canada ... meanwhile we are told to stay at home.  Are they going to use American labor??  Governor DeSanis even stated, now would be a perfect time to repairs roads and bridges while everyone is off the roads.  Americans, that is.

@libertybele

Is every death in your county caused by CCP Flu now like NY or are normal causes still in play there?

[Bigun]

I'll keep my fingers crossed they don't lay her off.

Thanks!

[musiclady]

@Cyber Liberty excellent advice...if only people would listen.

The only people I see who appear to be in a state of panic are those who are screaming in denial.

Again.......... the dissemination of information, education and facts does not in any way, shape or form equal panic, nor hysteria.

Perhaps if a few of you calm down, you'll begin to understand that.   Maybe the few of you who are afraid should start your own thread, and stay away from the calm informational one going on here.

Just a suggestion to help ease your fears.......

[Bigun]

A long time physician friend of mine responded to my tweet about my daughter's hospital thusly:

"Hospitals are on lockdown. No elective cases and trying to keep patients out at all costs. Why you say?  Well, the fact is that when the first COVID 19 patients show up the hospital ventilation systems are likely to be contaminated."

Wonder if that might have anything to do with what is going on in Italy, Spain, and N.Y. ?  Asking for a friend.

[aligncare]

 

[Formerly Once-Ler]

The only people I see who appear to be in a state of panic are those who are screaming in denial.

Again.......... the dissemination of information, education and facts does not in any way, shape or form equal panic, nor hysteria.

Perhaps if a few of you calm down, you'll begin to understand that.   Maybe the few of you who are afraid should start your own thread, and stay away from the calm informational one going on here.

Just a suggestion to help ease your fears.......

Great posts @musiclady I don't know that I can add anything but to agree that we are all scared, and it's very hard to have a rational response in that state.  Don't take it personally when others tell you not to have your own opinion.  It takes a long time to break old habits, and some of will fight it until the death toll become too hard to ignore.  Take solace that while our government is imperfect, none of us wants more death, and our government is listening.

[txradioguy]

The only people I see who appear to be in a state of panic are those who are screaming in denial.

Again.......... the dissemination of information, education and facts does not in any way, shape or form equal panic, nor hysteria.

Perhaps if a few of you calm down, you'll begin to understand that.   Maybe the few of you who are afraid should start your own thread, and stay away from the calm informational one going on here.

Just a suggestion to help ease your fears.......

I have no fear.  I'm not out mass buying anything.  I'm not buying into the myth of 200K dead and "we haven't hit peak yet".  I'm not screaming from the rooftops that we "NEED TO STAY INSIDE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!"

I'm not the one buying into the media induced hype/panic.

But thanks for your attempt at projection on this.

[mountaineer]

This thread on twitter is worth reading:

Sean Davis   @seanmdav

The IMHE model for the Wuhan coronavirus that the White House is relying on is garbage. It is using NY/NJ data and applying it to the rest of the U.S.
It predicted that over 121,000 Americans would be hospitalized yesterday over the coronavirus. The actual number? 31,142.
12:00 PM · Apr 2, 2020·Twitter Web App

Let's look at some state data. The IMHE model predicted that 1,716 people in Texas would have been hospitalized yesterday due to the Wuhan coronavirus. The actual number of hospitalized Texans? 196 people.

In Georgia, the IMHE model predicted that as of yesterday, 2,777 peole would have been hospitalized due to the Wuhan coronavirus. The actual number of people hospitalized in Georgia? 952.

In Virginia, the IMHE model predicted that 607 Virginians would have been hospitalized as of yesterday due to the Wuhan coronavirus. The actual number? 305.    ...

... All projection data can be found here: https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections.
All historical hospitalization data can be found here: https://covidtracking.com/data/.

If we're going to shut down the entire nation's economy to "flatten the curve" based on the projections of a single model, it shouldn't be too much to ask that the model approximate reality when it comes to hospitalizations.   ...

https://twitter.com/seanmdav/status/1245742822512381954

[Formerly Once-Ler]

If this is such a national natural disaster why are there stories in the papers in the last few days talking about healthcare workers being laid off across the country?

Fake News

[Bigun]

Fake News

Are you calling what my own daughter told me directly "Fake News" @Once-Ler ?

[mountaineer]

Ezra Levant @ezralevant

1. This is New York City's list of deaths from Coronavirus as of this morning. It's 1,397.
18 of those are people who died ONLY of the virus. The rest died of the virus and something else. Or perhaps they died of something else, but also had the virus.
https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/imm/covid-19-daily-data-summary-deaths.pdf
2:39 PM · Apr 2, 2020

2. That doesn't lessen the tragedy or the public health urgency of fighting the virus. But it suggests we can have a different approach to people who are at a low risk versus people who are at a high risk.
Protect people with underlying conditions. Let the rest go to work.

3. Perhaps the most striking fact from New York City's stats is that of age. Only one person under 18 has died (and he had an underlying condition. Yet our schools are closed.

4. Only 61 people under the age of 45 have died, and all but 5 had underlying conditions. According to this chart, under 45's are 61% of the NYC population. https://baruch.cuny.edu/nycdata/population-geography/age_distribution.htm
But under 45s are only 5% of the deaths.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Are you calling what my own daughter told me directly "Fake News" @Once-Ler ?

No.  Thankfully she is in an area that isn't a hot spot (yet), and our President's 15 day guideline has reduced the number of car accidents and gun shot wounds there.