Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion

[Free Vulcan]

I'd recommend everyone read this:

WSJ: Lessons From Italy’s Hospital Meltdown. ‘Every Day You Lose, the Contagion Gets Worse.’

https://www.wsj.com/articles/every-day-you-lose-the-contagion-gets-worse-lessons-from-italys-hospital-meltdown-11584455470

Italy's and Iran's mortality numbers are not good at all.

[catfish1957]

Over-reaction does indeed kill people, especially those with scientifically-proven medical emergencies that cannot be treated as resources are diverted to covering a virus that has scientifically been found to have less chances of killing you.

My best estimate is also that over-reaction has wiped our $5-10 T in the past week in country's wealth.  (some blame goes to the Oil war).

This is a serious matter, but sadly "bat shit crazy" has replaced "common sense" on a massive scale.

[roamer_1]

My best estimate is also that over-reaction has wiped our $5-10 T in the past week in country's wealth.  (some blame goes to the Oil war).

This is a serious matter, but sadly "bat shit crazy" has replaced "common sense" on a massive scale.

Ain't no sense in sayin it... Nobody's listening.
 

But you're right all the same.

[TomSea]

US Chamber of Commerce opposing proposal to encourage domestic medical manufacturing.

Marco Rubio
@marcorubio
I believe in capitalism 100% because the market always reaches the most efficient outcome.

BUT in those instances when the most efficient outcome is in conflict with our security,like making all our medicine in #China,we have to act.

Tom Cotton
@SenTomCotton
·
18h
Providing cash to small businesses now is the surest tool we have to prevent a prolonged economic downturn.

My plan increases the cap on small-business disaster loans from $2 million to $20 million and grants low-interest loans to businesses immediately.

Marco Rubio
@marcorubio
·
1h
Those arguing that @potus
 & GOP has abandoned their commitment to free market principles in favor of “bailouts” are missing a key point.

#COVID19 is a national emergency and government edicts have prohibited significant sectors of the free market economy from operating.

Tom Cotton
@SenTomCotton
·
21h
We don't have to reinvent the wheel to get cash into the hands of American workers who need it.

We should leverage existing systems—like unemployment insurance—to provide direct assistance to families across the country.

[Gefn]

Normally I wouldn’t bother posting this here because it’s kinda local. I decided to post when I saw who the author and photographer is.

Thomas E. Franklin is Assistant Professor in Multiplatform Journalism at Montclair State University. With 30 years' experience in the newspaper business, he is perhaps best known for his iconic flag-raising photograph taken at Ground Zero on 9/11.

Pictures say a thousand words.

https://www.njspotlight.com/2020/03/freeze-frame-a-day-in-the-life-of-new-jersey-amid-the-pandemic/

[skeeter]

US Chamber of Commerce opposing proposal to encourage domestic medical manufacturing.

These bast*rds need to be completely stripped of any influence. They are our enemy.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

This video is all over twitter.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f4J07tGTo0

The Bulwark has created there own video of President Trump's distortions and minimizing of danger.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfPk1HIBLfM

You probably don't need to watch it as these are the same clips the democrats will be running wall to wall in their election ads this fall.

[thackney]

Italy's and Iran's mortality numbers are not good at all.

I do not trust numbers out of Iran.  I suspect it is far more widely infected than reported.

But Italy is very concerning.  For a few days, they have been selecting who gets the next available ventilator based upon age, likelihood of survival, etc.

[catfish1957]

These bast*rds need to be completely stripped of any influence. They are our enemy.

Didn't realize it, but the Chamber of Commerce has been the largest lobby in U.S. at least the past 15 consecutive years.  It could be more, but that is as far back data that I could find.

Of course they are funded by larger retail, who do not want to lose market share to upstarts.

[skeeter]

Didn't realize it, but the Chamber of Commerce has been the largest lobby in U.S. at least the past 15 consecutive years.  It could be more, but that is as far back data that I could find.

Of course they are funded by larger retail, who do not want to lose market shares to upstarts.

Any body whose sole interest is the bottom line should not be allowed to dictate American economic and, basically, foreign policy.

[GrouchoTex]

Not to sound like I am wearing a tin foil hat, but...............


......was Operation Jade Helm a prelude to this?

Did the FedGov know this was coming as far back as 2016?

[Bigun]

There must be some obscure reference in that @Bigun , but I do not know what it is... 

But yeah... If there is schnapps, there will not be me. 

@roamer_1

My old Army buddy (Dave Throlson now deceased) is from Devils Lake. 54 years ago, his family pretty much owned the place and farmed 37 sections in the area.  I was up there back then and there was a group of old men who, in the winter, spent their days sitting by the wood or coal-burning stove in the back of the feed store drinking peppermint schnapps and playing pinochle to pass the time. God help you if you got in a game and played the wrong card! They made a lasting impression on me. Crotchety bunch of old Swedes and Germans with a ton of wisdom. I'm sure they are all gone now.
 

[Bigun]

These bast*rds need to be completely stripped of any influence. They are our enemy.

 

[FeelNoPain]

The Bulwark has created there own video of President Trump's distortions and minimizing of danger.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfPk1HIBLfM

You probably don't need to watch it as these are the same clips the democrats will be running wall to wall in their election ads this fall.

 Keep 'em coming!
 

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

My old Army buddy (Dave Throlson now deceased) is from Devils Lake. 54 years ago, his family pretty much owned the place and farmed 37 sections in the area.  I was up there back then and there was a group of old men who, in the winter, spent their days sitting by the wood or coal-burning stove in the back of the feed store drinking peppermint schnapps and playing pinochle to pass the time. God help you if you got in a game and played the wrong card! They made a lasting impression on me. Crotchety bunch of old Swedes and Germans with a ton of wisdom. I'm sure they are all gone now.

@Bigun
 

I have seen many similar,  and good on ya...
My favorite would be an ol general store with a pot bellied stove and an actual cracker barrel...
The duffers played cribbage on the porch in the summer, and moved it inside by the stove in the winter. But no shnapps. Mostly sweet tea, but if someone had it, a nip of the corn would not go wanting.
 

[skeeter]

Keep 'em coming!

Absolutely. No better way to build membership on a right leaning news forum than to post rat campaign ads.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Not to sound like I am wearing a tin foil hat, but...............


......was Operation Jade Helm a prelude to this?

Did the FedGov know this was coming as far back as 2016?

If you just tin foil the whole house you don't need a hat. 

Operation Jade Helm    I had forgotten about that.

[FeelNoPain]

Absolutely. No better way to build membership on a right leaning news forum than to post rat campaign ads.

My bad.
What I meant to write was "Fake News." "Democrat Hoax." "Trump-never-said-that-and-if-he-said-it-that's-not-what-he-meant."
No one should expect the President of the United States to own his words or be judicious in his statements. That is an unrealistic standard.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Absolutely. No better way to build membership on a right leaning news forum than to post rat campaign ads.

Charlie Sykes and Bill Kristol of the Bulwark were republicans not that long ago.  I doubt they will vote for a democrat more than once this election.  The great news is a lot of the clips where President Trump denies the danger and distorts the figures are from Fox 

[jmyrlefuller]

Local health facilities where I live are anticipating the peak to be in three weeks.
https://www.facebook.com/MayorMcDonald2020/posts/147795390043580

(Keep in mind this is an area that has no confirmed cases yet, though a handful are in self-isolation as a precaution. Apparently they are optimistic these lockdown/shutdown measures are working.)

[skeeter]

My bad.
What I meant to write was "Fake News." "Democrat Hoax." "Trump-never-said-that-and-if-he-said-it-that's-not-what-he-meant."
No one should expect the President of the United States to own his words or be judicious in his statements. That is an unrealistic standard.

You're right. Bill Kristol would never take Trump out of context. Lets get our 'facts' from him.

[FeelNoPain]

You're right. Bill Kristol would never take Trump out of context. Lets get our 'facts' from him.

 "Trump-never-said-that-and-if-he-said-it-that's-not-what-he-meant."

[Hoodat]

Good source of info:  https://ncov2019.live/

[Hoodat]

Recovered-to-Deceased ratio:

Worldwide:  10.02 
China:          21.50


Cases-to-recoveries ratio:

Worldwide:  2.48
China:          1.16

[Hoodat]

86% of people with coronavirus are walking around undetected, study says

Jackie Salo     |     March 17, 2020     |     10:15am

“Stealth” coronavirus cases are fueling the pandemic, with a staggering 86% of people infected walking around undetected, a new study says.

Six of every seven cases – 86% — were not reported in China before travel restrictions were implemented, driving the spread of the virus, according to a study Monday in the journal Science.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/17/86-of-people-with-coronavirus-are-walking-around-undetected-study-says/


Two things to take away from this.  First, for every known case based on symptoms (and subsequent testing), there are six other cases of infection without symptoms.  Which means that in a country without widespread testing (such as the US), the number of infected is much larger than reported (as is the probability of transmission).  But on the flip side, it means that the death rate is far lower than is being reported.

In areas that are performing more testing (e.g. Hong Kong, Germany, etc.), reported fatality rates should be much lower.

[Bigun]

we could have just dealt with this by realizing that some percent of people are going to die from it.... maybe 1-2% of people that come down with it.... like we do with every other illness that comes along, and have always done..... but for some reason we have decided that we are going to completely destroy the US and global economies over this.... pull out all of the stops to try to prevent those deaths, even if we sink into a global depression that will be almost impossible to pull out of...... and many more deaths.... orders of magnitude more..... are going to end up dying....

From my twitter feed and the guy is right as rain!  The left is pulling out ALL the stops to prevent the re-election of Donald J. Trump.

[DB]

Over-reaction does indeed kill people, especially those with scientifically-proven medical emergencies that cannot be treated as resources are diverted to covering a virus that has scientifically been found to have less chances of killing you.

This was posted above: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/every-day-you-lose-the-contagion-gets-worse-lessons-from-italys-hospital-meltdown/ar-BB11kAn0?li=AAgfIYZ

[GrouchoTex]

If you just tin foil the whole house you don't need a hat. 

Operation Jade Helm    I had forgotten about that.

I'm gonna tin-foil the whole damned neighborhood!
LOL

Actually, the year was 2015 when Operation Jade Helm was ran.

[skeeter]

From my twitter feed and the guy is right as rain!  The left is pulling out ALL the stops to prevent the re-election of Donald J. Trump.

Of course they are. We should stop accommodating them but I guess the ball is rolling now and cannot be stopped.

It may be he comes out of this in even better political shape but the damage done by our overreaction will take years to repair.

[mountaineer]

China: Avigan effective in tackling coronavirus
Tuesday, March 17, 9:14

China's government researchers say they have found the Japanese-developed anti-flu drug Avigan effective in treating patients infected with the new coronavirus and will promote its use.

Zhang Xinmin, director of the National Center for Biotechnology Development, named the drug at a news conference in Beijing on Tuesday.

He said the drug was found to be effective in clinical trials by two medical organizations in the country. He said the medicine worked for coronavirus-related symptoms including pneumonia and had no obvious side effects.  ...  More at NHK

[IsailedawayfromFR]

This was posted above: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/every-day-you-lose-the-contagion-gets-worse-lessons-from-italys-hospital-meltdown/ar-BB11kAn0?li=AAgfIYZ

Italy has a history of having worse health issues in situations like this.

Investigating the impact of influenza on excess mortality in all ages in Italy during recent seasons (2013/14–2016/17 seasons)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971219303285

[Hoodat]

China: Avigan effective in tackling coronavirus
Tuesday, March 17, 9:14

China's government researchers say they have found the Japanese-developed anti-flu drug Avigan effective in treating patients infected with the new coronavirus and will promote its use.

Zhang Xinmin, director of the National Center for Biotechnology Development, named the drug at a news conference in Beijing on Tuesday.

He said the drug was found to be effective in clinical trials by two medical organizations in the country. He said the medicine worked for coronavirus-related symptoms including pneumonia and had no obvious side effects.  ...  More at NHK

Did they actually tell their people that the drug was from Japan?

[Cyber Liberty]

Of course they are. We should stop accommodating them but I guess the ball is rolling now and cannot be stopped.

It may be he comes out of this in even better political shape but the damage done by our overreaction will take years to repair.

I think the Rat Press response of trying to cast Trump in the worst possible light by ginning up a hoax is like grabbing a Chance Card in Monopoly.  It's just as likely to backfire as it is to profit from this. 

[DB]

I think the Rat Press response of trying to cast Trump in the worst possible light by ginning up a hoax is like grabbing a Chance Card in Monopoly.  It's just as likely to backfire as it is to profit from this.

I think you are right. Much like the impeachment charade only with peoples well being/lives.

[TomSea]

I do not trust numbers out of Iran.  I suspect it is far more widely infected than reported.

But Italy is very concerning.  For a few days, they have been selecting who gets the next available ventilator based upon age, likelihood of survival, etc.

No reason too, you are absolutely correct but at the same time, I believe there was a story yesterday where an Iranian official did say millions could be infected.

Local health facilities where I live are anticipating the peak to be in three weeks.
https://www.facebook.com/MayorMcDonald2020/posts/147795390043580

(Keep in mind this is an area that has no confirmed cases yet, though a handful are in self-isolation as a precaution. Apparently they are optimistic these lockdown/shutdown measures are working.)

Governor Cuomo last night indeed said "peak" could be in about 45 days, okay, 45 days, 21 days.... Cuomo also praised Trump, that's up the thread a bit....

[Formerly Once-Ler]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/aggressive-testing-helps-italian-town-cut-new-coronavirus-cases-to-zero-1.4205354#.XnGiL82svgI.twitter

Aggressive testing helps Italian town cut new coronavirus cases to zero

An infection control experiment that was rolled out in a small Italian community at the start of Europe’s coronavirus crisis has stopped all new infections in the town that was at the centre of the country’s outbreak.

Through testing and retesting of all 3,300 inhabitants of the town of Vò, near Venice, regardless of whether they were exhibiting symptoms, and rigorous quarantining of their contacts once infection was confirmed, health authorities have been able to completely stop the spread of the illness there.

More at link

[TomSea]

I'm repeating, Governor Cuomo, most figures in authority are saying Trump is doing well.

In these instances,  I hope people can see that as compared to some "pundit", a pundit is not going to generally be of much more help or importance than if one of us say something.

Bill Kristol says this? Yes, and what else would he say, his record is known.  That's the thing, it will be much different if say, you hear Mark Levin questioning it or something.

Rand Paul, probably already reported, somehow, held up the vote last night about something.

Also, Dana Bash said Trump is doing well, and again, those are pundits or reporters views, far from being something of great import just like the Bulwark and Bill Kristol.

[skeeter]

I think the Rat Press response of trying to cast Trump in the worst possible light by ginning up a hoax is like grabbing a Chance Card in Monopoly.  It's just as likely to backfire as it is to profit from this.

At this point they really are preaching to the choir - the only ones listening are those who want to hear what they're spreading.
I suppose this is good news.

But I wonder how easy it'll be for us to recover from the insanity they've ginned up.

[Cyber Liberty]

Yesterday we had to go to the Social Security office in Needles, CA to drop off some forms.  There was a sign on the door, indicating the office is closed to the public effective yesterday morning, but people were there behind the locked doors.  I called the number on the door and explained we had an appointment, and we're up against an important deadline. 

A fellow came out to the car to accept the forms!  He was just glad we had everything filled out (I had gotten the forms online) and we just needed to hand them in.

[TomSea]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/aggressive-testing-helps-italian-town-cut-new-coronavirus-cases-to-zero-1.4205354#.XnGiL82svgI.twitter

Aggressive testing helps Italian town cut new coronavirus cases to zero

An infection control experiment that was rolled out in a small Italian community at the start of Europe’s coronavirus crisis has stopped all new infections in the town that was at the centre of the country’s outbreak.

Through testing and retesting of all 3,300 inhabitants of the town of Vò, near Venice, regardless of whether they were exhibiting symptoms, and rigorous quarantining of their contacts once infection was confirmed, health authorities have been able to completely stop the spread of the illness there.

More at link

Okay, I don't know Italy's layout but this appears to be "Northern Italy" again. It is interesting that the problems in Italy are largely said to be that one area and hopefully, not the whole country.

Good article, someone mentioned something about the Herd in this matter, I don't know if they used the term this article does, "Herd Immunity" but there is some interesting comment on that.

Rather than extensive testing, countries including the UK and the Netherlands had been pursuing a “herd immunity” strategy, which involved allowing more people to catch the virus and develop immunity to it, as a way of building up resistance in the community, though these policies are changing as the crisis intensifies.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/aggressive-testing-helps-italian-town-cut-new-coronavirus-cases-to-zero-1.4205354#.XnGiL82svgI.twitter

So, we can all read the article on that part as well, for those interested.   

Oh, yes, also as a separate thread, the '86%' article was posted I believe in World News, it was mentioned, there or in this forum.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Bill Kristol would never take Trump out of context.

Thank you for your reply @skeeter I wouldn't say that but the video is of Trump saying his words, and I find it harder than you do to blame Kristol for remembering Trump's words and inaction...even when Trump doesn't remember...and especially in light of President Trump now claiming he thought it was a Pandemic all along, and was waiting for us dummys to figure it out.  He even specifically denied it was a pandemic...' cause he's joke-ster. 

I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic. All you had to do was look at other countries...no, I've always viewed it as very serious.

[Cyber Liberty]

President Trump did not close all the restaurants and casinos across the river from me.  The Governor of NV did that. 

[mountaineer]

You know what would be great? If the posts on this thread had more to do with the virus, news about the virus, possible cures for the virus, precautions against the virus, the latest statistics on the virus ... than "orange man bad, me don't like him."

[DB]

President Trump did not close all the restaurants and casinos across the river from me.  The Governor of NV did that.

The Gov of CA is now talking martial law... I don't know why...

[skeeter]

Thank you for your reply @skeeter I wouldn't say that but the video is of Trump saying his words, and I find it harder than you do to blame Kristol for remembering Trump's words and inaction...even when Trump doesn't remember...and especially in light of President Trump now claiming he thought it was a Pandemic all along, and was waiting for us dummys to figure it out.  He even specifically denied it was a pandemic...' cause he's joke-ster. 

Thank you for providing this edifying info @Once-Ler.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Thank you for providing this edifying info @Once-Ler.

My pleasure.   

[Hoodat]

The Gov of CA is now talking martial law... I don't know why...

It is the secret fantasy of every Democrat.

[Lando Lincoln]

@roamer_1

My old Army buddy (Dave Throlson now deceased) is from Devils Lake. 54 years ago, his family pretty much owned the place and farmed 37 sections in the area.  I was up there back then and there was a group of old men who, in the winter, spent their days sitting by the wood or coal-burning stove in the back of the feed store drinking peppermint schnapps and playing pinochle to pass the time. God help you if you got in a game and played the wrong card! They made a lasting impression on me. Crotchety bunch of old Swedes and Germans with a ton of wisdom. I'm sure they are all gone now.

The kind of wisdom and common sense you describe is so rare these days.  I know the Devil's Lake, ND area well.  It remains a bastion of self-reliance and help-a-neighbor-in-need, salt of the earth place.  Most in "civil" society would fail to recognize it, even mock it.  I'm grateful I know it as do my sons. 

[Formerly Once-Ler]

President Trump did not close all the restaurants and casinos across the river from me.  The Governor of NV did that.

@Cyber Liberty
Sounds like a Governor who cares about the people in the state more than tourism dollars right now.  Good to see your Governor is respecting President Trump's excellent 15 day guidelines.  You must be proud of him or her.

[Bigun]

The kind of wisdom and common sense you describe is so rare these days.  I know the Devil's Lake, ND area well.  It remains a bastion of self-reliance and help-a-neighbor-in-need, salt of the earth place.  Most in "civil" society would fail to recognize it, even mock it.  I'm grateful I know it as do my sons.

@Lando Lincoln that is good to know. You like are acquainted with a few people named Throlson in that case.