Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion

[Bigun]

thebradfordfile™‏
@thebradfordfile

Obama, Bush, and Clinton gave China our jobs, our manufacturing, our wealth, our prosperity, and our safety.

Trump ran for president on getting it all back.

He is getting a second term to finish the job.

8:03 PM - 16 Mar 2020

https://twitter.com/thebradfordfile/stat...749194300219394

[Lando Lincoln]

@Bigun

When I was a boy, a neighbor of my grandparents had sheep. Somehow, the sheep managed to circle a farm building and were just following the butt of the one in front of ‘em. Crazy to see.

[catfish1957]

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

Great analogy....Herd mentality, and adding a  touch of lemming action, .....you totally nailed it.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

But since you seem to want to put this off on Trump, the DOW today is up 17% since Trump took office.  For someone who chooses to put it all on the President, a little praise is in order, don't you think?

@Hoodat

Update from 3 days ago.

February 12 the stock market closed at an all-time record high of 29,551.42
Yesterday it closed at 20,188.52.

That's a 31.7% drop in just over a month, and less than 500 points more than it was at 19,732 when Trump was inaugurated.  The DOW today is up 2.3% since Trump took office.  How much praise does 2.3% over 3 years deserve?

[Bigun]

@Hoodat

Update from 3 days ago.

February 12 the stock market closed at an all-time record high of 29,551.42
Yesterday it closed at 20,188.52.

That's a 31.7% drop in just over a month, and less than 500 points more than it was at 19,732 when Trump was inaugurated.  The DOW today is up 2.3% since Trump took office.  How much praise does 2.3% over 3 years deserve?

See the video I posted above.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.   So the president misspoke.   Should have said anyone that "needs" a test (ie that is already showing symptoms) can get a test. 

But I'm not sick and even if I get sick, I won't "need" a test.  I will self-quarantine anyway.

Stay healthy @XenaLee

[XenaLee]

Stay healthy @XenaLee

I plan to.....

God willing.   

[Formerly Once-Ler]

thebradfordfile™‏ @thebradfordfile

Obama, Bush, and Clinton gave China our jobs, our manufacturing, our wealth, our prosperity, and our safety.

Trump ran for president on getting it all back.

He is getting a second term to finish the job.
8:03 PM - 16 Mar 2020

https://twitter.com/thebradfordfile/stat...749194300219394

Great Coronavirus update @Bigun

[musiclady]

Not for Biden.  He wants it to proceed so he can win one more and become the presumptive nominee without the bother of Bernie.

The primary is still on....... just delayed, and well before the convention.

Actually...... Ohio's primary in the past has always been in May, so this delay puts it closer to the time we usually vote.

Biden will win Ohio in June..... he needn't worry. 

[musiclady]

@Bigun

When I was a boy, a neighbor of my grandparents had sheep. Somehow, the sheep managed to circle a farm building and were just following the butt of the one in front of ‘em. Crazy to see.

I kinda think the sheep/lemming thing ignores the science, medical knowledge and wisdom involved in the decisions being made for the public safety.

It's fine for people to get online and make fun of the millions of rational folks who are "social distancing" (not saying you are doing that Lando, but others clearly are), but in reality it is the measures being taken by many states that will slow the progress of this very aggressive disease that NO one wants to get.

Not even the mockers on this forum.......

[roamer_1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDQw21ntR64#

It is a particular love of mine to watch herding dogs work. 

[musiclady]

Great Coronavirus update @Bigun

Seriously....   

Let's keep this thread about the disease and stop the mockery of those of us who are taking it seriously as a medically documented threat to our health.

[Bigun]

Seriously....   

Let's keep this thread about the disease and stop the mockery of those of us who are taking it seriously as a medically documented threat to our health.

Yep!  Let's keep on allowing the destruction of our economy over what amounts to very little!

[catfish1957]

Yep!  Let's keep on allowing the destruction of our economy over what amounts to very little!

Thanks, you saved me a (not very nice) post.

11 Trillion dollars just doesn't buy what it used to does it?

[Lando Lincoln]

Not even the mockers on this forum.......

I’m not one of them.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Seriously....   

Let's keep this thread about the disease and stop the mockery of those of us who are taking it seriously as a medically documented threat to our health.

See the video I posted above.

[roamer_1]

[...] but in reality it is the measures being taken by many states that will slow the progress of this very aggressive disease that NO one wants to get.

No, it won't. We have never controlled a virus in the wild. Never.

Sure, folks that are particularly susceptible should get out of the way of it... Try the best you can. And at the individual level, that can be effective. But not within the general populace.

I hadn't been to town in over a month, having direct contact with no one but immediate family...

But my risk factor quadrupled yesterday, going into town to get supplies. All it takes is one infected person coughing on a cereal box, and I'm it.

And even over the course of 2 to 4 months, as the virus becomes apparent in my area (which it certainly will) I will have to go to town at least two more times, and those visits will be an order of magnitude higher in risk respectively.

And that doesn't count the sub classes which will remain out on the street, and remain active regardless of infection. It will not stop neighborhood kids getting together to play. Or being shuttled between households to be watched while mamma goes to town.

You will not stop it. nor 'slow it down'.

[roamer_1]

Thanks, you saved me a (not very nice) post.

11 Trillion dollars just doesn't buy what it used to does it?

Ain't it something?

[Bigun]

I’m not one of them.

I am!  We have truly become a nation of SHEEP!

[musiclady]

I’m not one of them.

I know that!

Again............ I have many friends in healthcare, physicians, nurses, hospital executives, and they are ALL taking this seriously.

People who mock the informed, thoughtful decisions of people who actually understand disease and how it spreads are just plain ignorant.

You, sir, are not.

[musiclady]

No, it won't. We have never controlled a virus in the wild. Never.

Sure, folks that are particularly susceptible should get out of the way of it... Try the best you can. And at the individual level, that can be effective. But not within the general populace.

I hadn't been to town in over a month, having direct contact with no one but immediate family...

But my risk factor quadrupled yesterday, going into town to get supplies. All it takes is one infected person coughing on a cereal box, and I'm it.

And even over the course of 2 to 4 months, as the virus becomes apparent in my area (which it certainly will) I will have to go to town at least two more times, and those visits will be an order of magnitude higher in risk respectively.

And that doesn't count the sub classes which will remain out on the street, and remain active regardless of infection. It will not stop neighborhood kids getting together to play. Or being shuttled between households to be watched while mamma goes to town.

You will not stop it. nor 'slow it down'.

I love ya, man, but I'm taking the word of thousands of medical experts and scientists over you.

We agree on many things....... most things, in fact........ but not on this one.

People who are in the field with nothing to gain by hysteria are making decisions to protect the public from a health disaster.

You know that I am not in any way......... in ANY way........... a "sheeple."  But I am educated and I trust those who are medically educated.

Not someone who posts a hundred    on a post to make fun of people who are trying to protect their families and communities.

[libertybele]

Seriously....   

Let's keep this thread about the disease and stop the mockery of those of us who are taking it seriously as a medically documented threat to our health.

I agree.  The data coming in suggests the elderly with existing health conditions stay at home and avoid crowds as much as possible. There are reports now coming in of a 5 year old testing positive and a newborn; the severity of symptoms are unknown and testing kits are now available for kids.  So those cases may increase.

We just don't know.  What has worked in other countries is social distancing; though 'herd immunity' is logical. 

As far as the economy -- yes the stock market was moving upward, the economy was growing, unemployment was the lowest in history, etc.  Could this virus have been bio-engineered to stagnate and harm our economy orchestrated by the Chinese or the liberals, or socialists?  We just don't know.

I opt to be cautious and to prepare for lockdown.  This will undeniably have a negative impact on most of us.  That we do know.  We also know that the liberals and DEMS are jumping for joy, hoping that this is what will finally take Trump down.

IMHO no ridicule should be aimed at those that elect to be cautious.  As a country we need to come together ... Trump is leading this country on this based on the data and information that he has been given and what he's observed. Tough decisions have to be made.  He's Trump.  He'll be criticized regardless of what he does; damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

[skeeter]

No, it won't. We have never controlled a virus in the wild. Never.

Sure, folks that are particularly susceptible should get out of the way of it... Try the best you can. And at the individual level, that can be effective. But not within the general populace.

I hadn't been to town in over a month, having direct contact with no one but immediate family...

But my risk factor quadrupled yesterday, going into town to get supplies. All it takes is one infected person coughing on a cereal box, and I'm it.

And even over the course of 2 to 4 months, as the virus becomes apparent in my area (which it certainly will) I will have to go to town at least two more times, and those visits will be an order of magnitude higher in risk respectively.

And that doesn't count the sub classes which will remain out on the street, and remain active regardless of infection. It will not stop neighborhood kids getting together to play. Or being shuttled between households to be watched while mamma goes to town.

You will not stop it. nor 'slow it down'.

I hope everyone is ready for this whole reaction to become an annual thing. Because if we accept the reasons offered for crashing the stock market, trashing the economy & forcing 'shelter in place' etc today there will be no justification not to do the same damn thing the next time another flu virus comes down the pike.

[roamer_1]

People who are in the field with nothing to gain by hysteria are making decisions to protect the public from a health disaster.

I would suggest you reexamine that 'nothing to gain' part, especially as it interfaces government.

This is no different than flu with regard to any success in stopping it. And those vaunted minds in ivory towers have never stopped the flu.

[Bigun]

I love ya, man, but I'm taking the word of thousands of medical experts and scientists over you.

We agree on many things....... most things, in fact........ but not on this one.

People who are in the field with nothing to gain by hysteria are making decisions to protect the public from a health disaster.

You know that I am not in any way......... in ANY way........... a "sheeple."  But I am educated and I trust those who are medically educated.

Not someone who posts a hundred    on a post to make fun of people who are trying to protect their families and communities.

More 

  BS! 

[Bigun]

I hope everyone is ready for this whole reaction to become an annual thing. Because if we accept the reasons offered for crashing the stock market, trashing the economy & forcing 'shelter in place' etc today there will be no justification not to do the same damn thing the next time another virus comes down the pike.

 

[roamer_1]

I hope everyone is ready for this whole reaction to become an annual thing. Because if we accept the reasons offered for crashing the stock market, trashing the economy & forcing 'shelter in place' etc today there will be no justification not to do the same damn thing the next time another flu virus comes down the pike.

That's exactly right.

[jmyrlefuller]

I hope everyone is ready for this whole reaction to become an annual thing. Because if we accept the reasons offered for crashing the stock market, trashing the economy & forcing 'shelter in place' etc today there will be no justification not to do the same damn thing the next time another virus comes down the pike.

On the contrary—when this is over, we as a society need to put safeguards in place to ensure that this never happens again. If a virus can cause this kind of chaos infecting only 0.1% of the population, what kind of chaos is going to result when a real threat arises?

[musiclady]

I would suggest you reexamine that 'nothing to gain' part, especially as it interfaces government.

This is no different than flu with regard to any success in stopping it. And those vaunted minds in ivory towers have never stopped the flu.

I know that the government is a villain, but the medical professionals I am referring to literally have NOTHING to gain (other than saving hospital resources and keeping people safe).

One thing that I do understand, based on medical/healthcare knowledge and wisdom is that is indeed different than the flu.

Again....... always suspicious of government does not mean covering your eyes about the very real healthcare situation we are in.

Not a sheeple.  Never a sheeple.  Not a lemming.  Never a lemming.

Just informed.

[catfish1957]

On the contrary—when this is over, we as a society need to put safeguards in place to ensure that this never happens again. If a virus can cause this kind of chaos infecting only 0.1% of the population, what kind of chaos is going to result when a real threat arises?

Very true.  That 0.1% to date has wiped out $11T in market cap (wealth) in just two weeks.  And basically has disrupted the life every person in this country. 

Allowing our infrastructure to get this vunerable is criminal IMO.  We better damn well have proper contingency plans in place after this.

[Neverdul]

I don't think the intent of any of this is to stop the virus, but rather to slow its spread so the hospital system can keep up. Unfortunately, modern medicine being what it is, we don't have an abundance of hospital beds in this country (and most likely in western Europe as well.)

It is interesting that the western response to the crisis is to shut down the economy rather than do what's been done in the past - build temporary capacity to address acute illness. We all remember pictures from the Spanish flu epidemic of patients being housed in tent cities. Of course, back then it wasn't swiftly understood that large gatherings, like the infamous Philly war bond parade, were spreading the virus like wildfire.

I wonder whether a happy medium would have worked better. Like where we were a week ago, closing sporting events, parades, concerts and similar large gatherings, but not shutting down all "non-essential businesses" as Philadelphia has now done. The latter will grievously harm the economy, especially small businesses and the millions they employ, and will require economic triage of the budget-busting variety. I fear that we were in the sweet spot between caution and overreaction about a week ago, and now have crossed the line where the economic casualties may well eclipse the human ones.

Hopefully as COVID-19 victims recover we will begin to be able to roll out antibody serums in the next few weeks that can address acute infections and help get us to the place where we can doff the economic noose around our necks.

Actually, not quite true.

It was understood, perhaps not by the average Joe, but certainly by doctors and health officials that large gatherings could spread influenza. Krusen was warned by other health officials to cancel the parade and ignored them.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/philadelphia-threw-wwi-parade-gave-thousands-onlookers-flu-180970372/

A political appointee, Krusen publicly denied that influenza was a threat, saying with assurance that the few military deaths were “old-fashioned influenza or grip.” He promised a campaign against coughing, spitting and sneezing, well aware that two days before the scheduled parade, the nation’s monthly draft call-up had been cancelled because army camps, including nearby Camp Dix in New Jersey and Camp Meade in Maryland, were overwhelmed by a conflagration of virulent influenza. Philadelphia’s parade poured gasoline on the flames.

Krusen’s decision to let the parade go on was based on two fears. He believed that a quarantine might cause a general panic. In fact, when city officials did close down public gatherings, the skeptical Philadelphia Inquirer chided the decision. “Talk of cheerful things instead of disease,” urged the Inquirer on October 5. “The authorities seem to be going daft. What are they trying to do, scare everybody to death?”

After his initial failure to prevent the epidemic from exploding, Wilmer Krusen had attempted to address the crisis, largely in vain. He asked the U.S. army to stop drafting local doctors, appropriated funds to hire more medical workers, mobilized the sanitation department to clean the city, and perhaps most important, clear bodies from the street. It was too little too late. On a single October day, 759 people died in the city and more than 12,000 Philadelphians would die in a matter of weeks.

[Idiot]

Yep!  Let's keep on allowing the destruction of our economy over what amounts to very little!

It amounts to little unless YOU are the one who gets it and are fighting for your life.....just saying....

[Bigun]

Kevin Stone (a friend on FB) has HIS head screwed on very straight!

 Â·
Let's get real. So far, only about 1 person in 50,000 on the planet has been infected with Covid-19. Not dead, just infected. The US has one of the lower infection rates at <1 in 200,000. Again, verified infection, not deaths. And even if the actual infection rate is underreported by a factor of 100, that means that the infected would still amount to a scant 0.05%. As someone who has contracted really bad diseases (adenovirus caught in China in 2007, confirmed West Nile in 2003 from a mosquito bite in Dallas), I get that you can catch nasty stuff even with a lower infection rate than that projected for Covid-19. But I survived and am fine with the fact that I got the illnesses rather than shutting the economy down to everyone's detriment.

We are killing our nation, shutting down everything and losing production that cannot be recovered, with a death toll in this country amounting to 1 in 8,000,000. Again, let that sink in. We are losing our minds over a death toll a full month into a so-called "pandemic" (more like dem-panic) that is up there with the number of fatalities caused by wild pigs. This is a PANIC. Get a grip on yourself and get back to work or whatever it is that you normally do. I'm going to the store in hopes of being able to find the few items I need on the shelves rather than moldering in some hoarder's basement.

[skeeter]

Very true.  That 0.1% to date has wiped out $11T in market cap (wealth) in just two weeks.  And basically has disrupted the life every person in this country. 

Suffering among seniors as the stock market tanks due to the panic is unquantifiable.

I feel like a financial genius for putting my mother's Roth IRA in a cash account 6 months ago.

[Bigun]

It amounts to little unless YOU are the one who gets it and are fighting for your life.....just saying....

Happens to people ALL the time and we don't shut the economy down over it! What makes this different?

[TomSea]

Tom Hanks, wife, released from hospital.

Kentucky Derby postponed, I believe postponed and not cancelled.

-----------------

Those dismissing the virus, I think just do not have the information.... I'm not knocking them,  I don't want to see the US cremating bodies because there are so many deaths (and remember, those bodies are dangerous to handle so, they got to do that),  I don't want to see hotels or other facilities taken control of to make room for those needing help, I don't want to see hazmat suits on my street,  the list goes on.

Yeah, and if one gets sick, even young people, you are using more nurses, more doctors, they need to help those in most dire need, not those who get sick because they take this lightly.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Again............ I have many friends in healthcare, physicians, nurses, hospital executives, and they are ALL taking this seriously.

People who mock the informed, thoughtful decisions of people who actually understand disease and how it spreads are just plain ignorant.

Where was the panic over 36 million flu illnesses, 370,000 hospitalizations and 22,000 deaths from the flu just in the US and just to Mar 7, 2020???  (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm)  Didn't any of your friends take this seriously?

Briefers should be able to ask what's driving this unprecedented 24/7 drumbeat over the Wuhan flu virus without fear of personally threatening or offending you.

Take whatever precautions you deem prudent @musiclady  ... but please don't stop others from trying to extinguish the panic even if you embrace it; and please don't stop people from asking questions about this "crisis" even if you will not.

[Idiot]

Happens to people ALL the time and we don't shut the economy down over it! What makes this different?

Personally....  I have a 90 yr old mom that I look after.  If she gets it she's done.  I take this virus VERY seriously....
I pray to the Good Lord that we are all over reacting. 

I will apologize to all if in a few weeks this all blows over.....

[roamer_1]

We are killing our nation, shutting down everything and losing production that cannot be recovered, with a death toll in this country amounting to 1 in 8,000,000. Again, let that sink in. We are losing our minds over a death toll a full month into a so-called "pandemic" (more like dem-panic) that is up there with the number of fatalities caused by wild pigs. This is a PANIC. Get a grip on yourself and get back to work or whatever it is that you normally do. I'm going to the store in hopes of being able to find the few items I need on the shelves rather than moldering in some hoarder's basement.

 

Except the 'hoarder' thing. This is the prepper's time to shine. THEY WERE RIGHT.

[Bigun]

Where was the panic over 36 million flu illnesses, 370,000 hospitalizations and 22,000 deaths from the flu just in the US and just to Mar 7, 2020???  (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm)  Didn't any of your friends take this seriously?

Briefers should be able to ask what's driving this unprecedented 24/7 drumbeat over the Wuhan flu virus without fear of personally threatening or offending you.

Take whatever precautions you deem prudent @musiclady  ... but please don't stop others from trying to extinguish the panic even if you embrace it; and please don't stop people from asking questions about this "crisis" even if you will not.

 

[roamer_1]

Where was the panic over 36 million flu illnesses, 370,000 hospitalizations and 22,000 deaths from the flu just in the US and just to Mar 7, 2020???  (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm)  Didn't any of your friends take this seriously?

Briefers should be able to ask what's driving this unprecedented 24/7 drumbeat over the Wuhan flu virus without fear of personally threatening or offending you.

Dammit RiV, stop making sense. This is twice this week we have agreed... What are ppl gonna think?

[aligncare]

I would suggest you reexamine that 'nothing to gain' part, especially as it interfaces government.

This is no different than flu with regard to any success in stopping it. And those vaunted minds in ivory towers have never stopped the flu.

People should stop and realize that organized medicine is just as highly political as any other segment of society—and it leans decidedly to the left.

Remember that Obama expanded bureaucratic agencies—including CDC—by many factors. His holdovers are buried deep and have personal agendas, as we witnessed with the intelligence community, whose operatives seemed not to care one bit the harm the were causing to national security by spreading lies and misinformation about Trump and Russia.

National security or public health, subterfuge in either area can result in American deaths just the same.

[EdinVA]

Personally....  I have a 90 yr old mom that I look after.  If she gets it she's done.  I take this virus VERY seriously....
I pray to the Good Lord that we are all over reacting.

You are right... My dad is 89 and my mom is 88 and other than running errands to keep them out of harms way, there is not much I can do.
I also have an 11 year old grandson living with me and his school is closed and needs entertainment so if I let this get me down the it has an impact on him so I gotta stay up beat...

[TomSea]

I don't think the intent of any of this is to stop the virus, but rather to slow its spread so the hospital system can keep up.

Exactly, well, this first line is right on the mark, imho.

It doesn't take much research to see, even if people are saying some age groups are much less affected, they are still taking up precious resources should they get sick.

Odds are some person here will get it, it just seems the chances are so.

[Bigun]

Personally....  I have a 90 yr old mom that I look after.  If she gets it she's done.  I take this virus VERY seriously....
I pray to the Good Lord that we are all over reacting. 

I will apologize to all if in a few weeks this all blows over.....

I'm very sorry that you find yourself in that situation @mrpotatohead and you don't need to apologize for anything.  I do however stand by everything I've said here previously!

[roamer_1]

People should stop and realize that organized medicine is just as highly political as any other segment of society—and it leans decidedly to the left.

[...]

National security or public health, subterfuge in either area can result in American deaths just the same.

That's right

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Failing  Michigan Governor must work harder and be much more proactive. We are pushing her to get the job done. I stand with Michigan!
8:27 AM · Mar 17, 2020

Pretty bold words from the President who finally admitted Covid-19 wasn't under control yesterday.

[austingirl]

Kevin Stone (a friend on FB) has HIS head screwed on very straight!

 Â·
Let's get real. So far, only about 1 person in 50,000 on the planet has been infected with Covid-19. Not dead, just infected. The US has one of the lower infection rates at <1 in 200,000. Again, verified infection, not deaths. And even if the actual infection rate is underreported by a factor of 100, that means that the infected would still amount to a scant 0.05%. As someone who has contracted really bad diseases (adenovirus caught in China in 2007, confirmed West Nile in 2003 from a mosquito bite in Dallas), I get that you can catch nasty stuff even with a lower infection rate than that projected for Covid-19. But I survived and am fine with the fact that I got the illnesses rather than shutting the economy down to everyone's detriment.

We are killing our nation, shutting down everything and losing production that cannot be recovered, with a death toll in this country amounting to 1 in 8,000,000. Again, let that sink in. We are losing our minds over a death toll a full month into a so-called "pandemic" (more like dem-panic) that is up there with the number of fatalities caused by wild pigs. This is a PANIC. Get a grip on yourself and get back to work or whatever it is that you normally do. I'm going to the store in hopes of being able to find the few items I need on the shelves rather than moldering in some hoarder's basement.

Great post @Bigun

93% of the cases worldwide are mild. Too bad that critical thinking has gone by the wayside. There ae no cases in my area. I'm living my life as usual, going to the gym, to the vet. As a registered nurse, I have full faith in my ability to minimize my risk. The panic is far worse than the virus and is causing damage to the economy from which many will never recover. Then everyone will turn to the almighty and all-powerful national government.

[TomSea]

Wuhan flu:

Yes, Coronavirus Is Worse Than the Flu
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/yes-coronavirus-is-worse-than-the-flu/

Deadlier than most strains of the flu, would kill many more, is much more contagious. That part's pretty easy.

Also, note, while some are suspicious of the US government,

Maybe, it's not for sure, but maybe, the government that is being left off the hook are the CHICOMS.

So, this preachiness, The Government is doing this and that, doesn't phase me at all.   The Chinese skate on this, while Chinese in numbers, try to come across our southern border, border patrol men are more at risk, etc. etc. etc.

Believe what  you want,  everyone has rationales.

Young people may not die, they still use precious resources, nurses, doctors, beds, defibrillators or respirators, again, etc. etc.

[Idiot]

I go to a rather large church.  Numerous doctors that also attend are parroting what the CDC is saying.  These are knowledgeable individuals, some of who I know personally who are very very concerned about what's coming.  I've never seen them like this.  If the people in the know are freaked out over this then...……….