Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion

[skeeter]

People should stop and realize that organized medicine is just as highly political as any other segment of society—and it leans decidedly to the left.

Remember that Obama expanded bureaucratic agencies—including CDC—by many factors. His holdovers are buried deep and have personal agendas, as we witnessed with the intelligence community, whose operatives seemed not to care one bit the harm the were causing to national security by spreading lies and misinformation about Trump and Russia.

National security or public health, subterfuge in either area can result in American deaths just the same.

Of course the medical community is focused on this pandemic. Epidemiology, healthcare, etc  is their world. Thank goodness.

Its up to us to take what they tell us together with all other related information.

Right now its ALL their input, unleavened with perspective.

[Bigun]

Great post @Bigun

93% of the cases worldwide are mild. Too bad that critical thinking has gone by the wayside. There ae no cases in my area. I'm living my life as usual, going to the gym, to the vet. As a registered nurse, I have full faith in my ability to minimize my risk. The panic is far worse than the virus and is causing damage to the economy from which many will never recover. Then everyone will turn to the almighty and all-powerful national government.

I am almost 72 years old @austingirl and have refused to alter my routine on iota over this and will not! My daughter is a trama certified RN and my wife spent her entire lifetime in healthcare. We do what we reasonably can to avoid getting sick but I'll be damned if I let a virus rule my life!

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Happens to people ALL the time and we don't shut the economy down over it! What makes this different?

I blame that Trump fella who declared it a National Emergency and keeps getting on the TV talking about it.

[TomSea]

I'm not going to let these guys off the hook.



It started somewhere, I know that.

It might not be natural, I don't know that.

Have your views, others have theirs as well.

Just remember, if one is smug about this, "ha ha, look at these others", consider this as well.

[Idiot]

I blame that Trump fella who declared it a National Emergency and keeps getting on the TV talking about it.

Don't ask me why I clicked on your post because I have you on ignore....  Can't you just let it go...  Can you imagine the weight on the President's shoulders right now.  Cut the guy some slack.  He needs our prayers not our ridicule. 

[musiclady]

Dammit RiV, stop making sense. This is twice this week we have agreed... What are ppl gonna think?

Well, I don't agree with either of you.

I know that the AMA is far left leaning, but I'm going to repeat that the people I am citing are physicians and nurses and health care executives who are friends and acquaintances who are very conservative people who are taking this seriously.

There is no panic in my soul.  I am not defending panic.  But I AM accepting wisdom from people who know.

This is NOT just "the flu."

And it's pretty obvious that if people don't gather in large groups the spread of the virus will SLOW.

THAT is the goal.  Not to make it go away, but to slow it so that medical resources are available for everyone who NEEDS them.

This is what did NOT happen in Italy and because of measures taken will most likely be true in America.

Now....... would it be possible for this thread to be actually about updates on COVID-19 not mockery.

(And no, RIV, I am not personally offended by the mockers.  I just want this thread to be about information and not stupid gifs of lemmings...... which NONE of us is).

[skeeter]

I am almost 72 years old @austingirl and have refused to alter my routine on iota over this and will not! My daughter is a trama certified RN and my wife spent her entire lifetime in healthcare. We do what we reasonably can to avoid getting sick but I'll be damned if I let a virus rule my life!

I wouldn't let it rule mine, either, but my county has made the decision for me, @Bigun. 'Shelter in place', no restaurants, no bars, no shows, no 'unnecessary' walks, 'essential' businesses only etc for three weeks.

Run in circles scream and shout.

[catfish1957]

I am almost 72 years old @austingirl and have refused to alter my routine on iota over this and will not! My daughter is a trama certified RN and my wife spent her entire lifetime in healthcare. We do what we reasonably can to avoid getting sick but I'll be damned if I let a virus rule my life!

At our age....   Can you put a price tag on basically losing 6 months of enjoyable life?

I am a well, responsible self quarantining,  >60 y.o.  (age risk).  But I tell ya.....   If it becomes evident that this was overblown?  I don't think you will see the level of anger that has been seen in many years.

[DB]

Don't ask me why I clicked on your post because I have you on ignore....  Can't you just let it go...  Can you imagine the weight on the President's shoulders right now.  Cut the guy some slack.  He needs our prayers not our ridicule.

It was coming no matter what he did. Hopefully he is better informed by the people around him than the rest of us. There was going to be major destruction in its wake period. The only question is what is the path of least destruction and what is the balance between people living and dying verses economic concerns.

I will say China places far less value on human life than we do. And they ended up taking action that caused major economic damage to themselves in spite of that. Food for thought.

[DB]

I wouldn't let it rule mine, either, but my county has made the decision for me, @Bigun. 'Shelter in place', no restaurants, no bars, no shows, no 'unnecessary' walks, 'essential' businesses only etc for three weeks.

Run in circles scream and shout.

You're in California... So far that hasn't happened in AZ next door.

[musiclady]

At our age....   Can you put a price tag on basically losing 6 months of enjoyable life?

I am a well, responsible self quarantining,  >60 y.o.  (age risk).  But I tell ya.....   If it becomes evident that this was overblown?  I don't think you will see the level of anger that has been seen in many years.

The problem is that we won't ever know if it was "overblown" because if the social restrictions actually work (as they will for sure, at least in part), then there will be no future crisis because it will have been averted by those social restrictions.

IOW, if the minimizing of large group contact and protection of the elderly in nursing homes and hospitals works, the deaths will be minimized, and we'll never know for sure that it worked.

Except that it most likely did.....

[catfish1957]

, no 'unnecessary' walks,

Are you kidding?  Even if you are 100's of feet away from others?  Sounds more like "Maritial Law" than "Shelter in Place"

[skeeter]

Are you kidding?  Even if you are 100's of feet away from others?  Sounds more like "Maritial Law" than "Shelter in Place"

Verbatim from the announcement. This 'crisis' looks different from where I sit.

[Bigun]

Are you kidding?  Even if you are 100's of feet away from others?  Sounds more like "Maritial Law" than "Shelter in Place"

They are pushing the envelope to see just how much they can get away with.

[TomSea]

Well, I don't agree with either of you.

I know that the AMA is far left leaning, but I'm going to repeat that the people I am citing are physicians and nurses and health care executives who are friends and acquaintances who are very conservative people who are taking this seriously.

There is no panic in my soul.  I am not defending panic.  But I AM accepting wisdom from people who know.

This is NOT just "the flu."

And it's pretty obvious that if people don't gather in large groups the spread of the virus will SLOW.

THAT is the goal.  Not to make it go away, but to slow it so that medical resources are available for everyone who NEEDS them.

This is what did NOT happen in Italy and because of measures taken will most likely be true in America.

Now....... would it be possible for this thread to be actually about updates on COVID-19 not mockery.

(And no, RIV, I am not personally offended by the mockers.  I just want this thread to be about information and not stupid gifs of lemmings...... which NONE of us is).

Good post and again,  some rant at the gubmint', I'm a bad a__ libertairian, independent and just mocking and laughing at others.

Yeah, there's a gubmint that has a lot of responsibility, possibly hiding it, that's the gubmint I'm outraged about.  Spreading it to a whole lot of the world, things Senator Tom Cotton is talking about.

Different strokes for different folks.

But don't think anyone's position is more enlightened, more knowledgeable than others.

[roamer_1]

At our age....   Can you put a price tag on basically losing 6 months of enjoyable life?

Well that ain't EXACTLY right. Fishin season is comin on... And down there by you there's bullfrog giggin, and many other such enjoyable passtimes.

Maybe with all this free time, all y'all can finally get a handle on them wild pigs...
That'd be fun.

I am hoping to go out and sit in a blind this weekend with a buddy of mine, goin after coyotes that are messin with his calves, or will be soon... I can go coyote hunting and trapping for a long, long time without getting bored.
 

[DB]

Verbatim from the announcement. This 'crisis' looks different from where I sit.

California has endless restrictions on all sorts of things. The people there are being slow boiled... Guns, ammo, what bathroom to use, if you can asked if they've been convicted of bank robber before you hire them to work at your bank, permits to change your water heater, being expelled from school, you name it...

[catfish1957]

Verbatim from the announcement. This 'crisis' looks different from where I sit.

Hang in there man.  If i didn't have acreage to enjoy and roam around in, I would go bat shit crazy. 

Hope the Gubmit has a plan for all the upcoming Cabin Fever events.

[Cyber Liberty]

True.  i used to find it pretty easily at Walgreens, but it has appeared that general public has caught on the home made hand sanitizer gig.

That's partly it.  Also, 91% IPA is flammable.  Alcohol fires are really dangerous because the flames tend to be invisible.

[DB]

The problem is that we won't ever know if it was "overblown" because if the social restrictions actually work (as they will for sure, at least in part), then there will be no future crisis because it will have been averted by those social restrictions.

IOW, if the minimizing of large group contact and protection of the elderly in nursing homes and hospitals works, the deaths will be minimized, and we'll never know for sure that it worked.

Except that it most likely did.....

We should have a pretty good idea if it works or not simply by comparing results with other countries assuming those other countries that don't take these actions truthfully report the results. China and Iran for example, who knows what the truth is.

[Cyber Liberty]

You're in California... So far that hasn't happened in AZ next door.

We have to drive to California today.  Fortunately it's Needles, so it's not like jumping into the deep end. 

[Bigun]

That's partly it.  Also, 91% IPA is flammable.  Alcohol fires are really dangerous because the flames tend to be invisible.

Just go to the liquor store and buy a liter of Everclear.   

[roamer_1]

The problem is that we won't ever know if it was "overblown" because if the social restrictions actually work (as they will for sure, at least in part), then there will be no future crisis because it will have been averted by those social restrictions.

IOW, if the minimizing of large group contact and protection of the elderly in nursing homes and hospitals works, the deaths will be minimized, and we'll never know for sure that it worked.

Except that it most likely did.....

That is also not true.The numbers they are using are inflated on their face.
Garbage in, garbage out.

...So when the hundreds of thousands or millions of deaths do not occur, the reason will be because the virus ran it's course (just like the flu) and petered out, as it predictably will.

[skeeter]

Hang in there man.  If i didn't have acreage to enjoy and roam around in, I would go bat shit crazy. 

Hope the Gubmit has a plan for all the upcoming Cabin Fever events.

Wife and I are stuck in a 600 sq ft 'beach cottage' while we wait for our new house to close escrow, which was suppose to happen next week. 'Cept there's a chance the recorders office will close today as well. 

[Bigun]

That is also not true.The numbers they are using are inflated on their face.
Garbage in, garbage out.

...So when the hundreds of thousands or millions of deaths do not occur, the reason will be because the virus ran it's course (just like the flu) and petered out, as it predictably will.

Dr. Fauci’s Mysterious Math – The Quantifying Today Reflects Where We Were A Week Ago – Today Cannot Be Quantified Until Next Week…

[DB]

That is also not true.The numbers they are using are inflated on their face.
Garbage in, garbage out.

...So when the hundreds of thousands or millions of deaths do not occur, the reason will be because the virus ran it's course (just like the flu) and petered out, as it predictably will.

How many deaths are enough?

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Don't ask me why I clicked on your post because I have you on ignore....

  To confirm what you already decided about me. 

Can't you just let it go...

You decide to put me on ignore.  You angrily post an announcement to me and the forum.  You sneak a peek.  You post that to me and the forum, and then you ask "Can't you just let it go?"  You'll notice I don't have to ask you that. 

Can you imagine the weight on the President's shoulders right now.

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/virus-missteps-trump-declares-i-don-t-take-responsibility-all-n1160236 Tell me all about it. 

Cut the guy some slack.  He needs our prayers not our ridicule.

He needs to resign.  He is not fit to lead.

[Cyber Liberty]

Just go to the liquor store and buy a liter of Everclear.   

I got one when we stocked the Castle Bar.   

[GrouchoTex]

At our age....   Can you put a price tag on basically losing 6 months of enjoyable life?

I am a well, responsible self quarantining,  >60 y.o.  (age risk).  But I tell ya.....   If it becomes evident that this was overblown?  I don't think you will see the level of anger that has been seen in many years.

I don't know how it can be measured.

[Right_in_Virginia]

That is also not true.The numbers they are using are inflated on their face.
Garbage in, garbage out.

...So when the hundreds of thousands or millions of deaths do not occur, the reason will be because the virus ran it's course (just like the flu) and petered out, as it predictably will.

Are you actually on the beach @skeeter

[skeeter]

That is also not true.The numbers they are using are inflated on their face.
Garbage in, garbage out.

...So when the hundreds of thousands or millions of deaths do not occur, the reason will be because the virus ran it's course (just like the flu) and petered out, as it predictably will.

I'm reading a translated interview with Dr Zhong Nanshan, who discovered SARs in 2003 - he says SARs was far worse in terms of mortality, and since Coronavirus was determined to be similar the reaction to Coronavirus in China was over the top.

However, he says that due to oxygen therapies, etc developed in response to SARs this virus was resolved with a relatively low body count. For what its worth.

[Lando Lincoln]

Well, I don't know what it is and what it isn't but I sure can't change what is happening.  Sound like surrender?  It isn't.  I have a couple hundred people who work under me.  Many, if not most (maybe all), are fearful.  I am trying to provide leadership and the only way I know is to be present, be visible.  As for me personally, I am 66 years old with a slightly compromised respiratory system yet I am still here, tending the "herd" as I always do.  I'm keeping them away from the cliff. 

[Cyber Liberty]

Dr. Fauci’s Mysterious Math – The Quantifying Today Reflects Where We Were A Week Ago – Today Cannot Be Quantified Until Next Week…

I saw that Presser yesterday, and Fauci's remark still has my head spinning.

[Bigun]

How many deaths are enough?

For everyone who dies ten will be bankrupted if we continue this idiocy!

[musiclady]

That is also not true.The numbers they are using are inflated on their face.
Garbage in, garbage out.

...So when the hundreds of thousands or millions of deaths do not occur, the reason will be because the virus ran it's course (just like the flu) and petered out, as it predictably will.

You are citing extremist’s numbers, not factual data about the numbers of people who have died.

If less people are exposed, less people will become sick.

Yes, the virus will peter out.  Yes, this will all pass.

And the economy will recover from these short term measures taken.

American ingenuity and resourcefulness are not dead.

Perhaps we will come out of this a stronger nation, and perhaps the Church in America will revive because its people realize what’s really important.....

[aligncare]

Again, we have to ask ourselves, why now? We had outbreaks before, some far deadlier, with nothing near this response. But, what’s different today?

If the word “November election” didn’t spring immediately to mind, you maybe suffering a touch of white coat syndrome and not not using your head. In politics there are no coincidences. Keep in mind our media is nearly one hundred percent political Left. Without the DNC having to lift a finger, their will is done.

[Bigun]

Well, I don't know what it is and what it isn't but I sure can't change what is happening.  Sound like surrender?  It isn't.  I have a couple hundred people who work under me.  Many, if not most (maybe all), are fearful.  I am trying to provide leadership and the only way I know is to be present, be visible.  As for me personally, I am 66 years old with a slightly compromised respiratory system yet I am still here, tending the "herd" as I always do.  I'm keeping them away from the cliff.

 

[roamer_1]

How many deaths are enough?

Doesn't matter. Those deaths are already preordained.

I know that sounds awful, but we are speaking statistically.
And facts don't care about your feelings.

[DB]

For everyone who dies ten will be bankrupted if we continue this idiocy!

That wasn't an answer.

[skeeter]

Are you actually on the beach @skeeter

We're a couple of blocks off the beach in a place called Seabright, around the corner from Santa Cruz's Boardwalk. Nice place now but the beach traffic here in the warmer months is horrific.

[Bigun]

Again, we have to ask ourselves, why now? We had outbreaks before, some far deadlier, with nothing near this response. But, what’s different today?

If the word “November election” didn’t spring immediately to mind, you maybe suffering a touch of white coat syndrome and not not using your head. In politics there are no coincidences. Keep in mind our media is nearly one hundred percent political Left. Without the DNC having to lift a finger, their will is done.

  Well said @aligncare

[musiclady]

For everyone who dies ten will be bankrupted if we continue this idiocy!

You are an incredibly reactionary pessimist if you believe that.

[DB]

Doesn't matter. Those deaths are already preordained.

I know that sounds awful, but we are speaking statistically.
And facts don't care about your feelings.

What?

We're all going to die. Period. So just let nature run its course unabated then is what your saying... Sucks to be you if you die because others couldn't be bothered.

[thackney]

We should have a pretty good idea if it works or not simply by comparing results with other countries assuming those other countries that don't take these actions truthfully report the results. China and Iran for example, who knows what the truth is.

Look to Italy for the overwhelming of the medical capability in a modern society.  They do not have the capacity to treat all that need it already.

Italy hit by 368 new coronavirus deaths, hospitals in crisis
https://www.euractiv.com/section/coronavirus/news/italy-hit-by-368-new-coronavirus-deaths-hospitals-in-crisis/

taly on Sunday (15 March) reported a one-day record death toll and leaders warned of a bed and artificial respirator shortage in the European epicentre of the coronavirus pandemic.

Official data showed the number of fatalities shooting up by 368 to 1,809 — more than half of all the cases recorded outside China....

[TomSea]

Republican congressman calls on Trump to make China forgive US debt over coronavirus crisis
by Emma Colton  | March 17, 2020 10:07 AM

Rep. Jim Banks thinks China needs to pay the United States for the spread of the coronavirus.

The Indiana Republican told Fox News’s Tucker Carlson Monday night that the U.S. needs to hold China accountable for the crisis the coronavirus has caused stateside, which could including making the communist country forgive a chunk of America's debt.

Carlson said during the segment: “The coronavirus is a Chinese virus, no matter what they are telling you. It originated in China and was able to spread to the rest of the world because the Chinese government hid the truth of what was happening early in the outbreak from the rest of the world. They lied about it, and that caused the terrible consequences we are watching now. You can blame China for that.”

Read more at:   https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/republican-congressman-calls-on-trump-to-make-china-forgive-us-debt-over-coronavirus-crisis

 

Good to see someone go after the culpable party, what a joke, some conspiracy that the US government is doing this to control the population.

[Bigun]

That wasn't an answer.

OK! Try this one on! We are ALL going to die! Every last one of us and there is not one thing we can do to prevent it! 

[Hoodat]

For everyone who dies ten will be bankrupted if we continue this idiocy!

More like 500.

[Cyber Liberty]

He needs to resign.  He is not fit to lead.

Yeah...no.  It's not going to happen, and is likely to be reelected despite all his shortcomings (and there are plenty).  Resigning under fire is not something I would expect Donald Trump to do.  It's not rational to expect he would.

[Bigun]

More like 500.

You are more than likely right @Hoodat

[Right_in_Virginia]

I saw that Presser yesterday, and Fauci's remark still has my head spinning.

When Fauci speaks I'm reminded of this character from the original Independence Day .... 

Perhaps it's time to return Fauci to the back room ... without WIFI.