Author Topic: Vindman said White House transcript of Ukraine call omitted key material: report (Read 1296 times)

Absalom · « **Reply #25 on:** October 30, 2019, 04:31:15 pm »

Quote from: Once-Ler on October 30, 2019, 06:10:57 am

Because he was on the call

-------------------------
Fair enough.
Therefore a question about the intention of Trump.
Since he must have been aware that his call was being heard by others,
would he deliberately have said anything that would trigger legal trouble?

Bigun · « **Reply #26 on:** October 30, 2019, 05:03:22 pm »

Quote

Vindman - who overseas European affairs at the National Security Council, has come under fire after the New York Times reported that he's has been advising Ukrainian officials on how to deal with Rudy Giuliani.

"While Colonel Vindmanâ€™s concerns were shared by a number of other officials, some of whom have already testified, he was in a unique position. Because he emigrated from Ukraine along with his family when he was a child and is fluent in Ukrainian and Russian, Ukrainian officials sought advice from him about how to deal with Mr. Giuliani, though they typically communicated in English." -NYT

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/white-house-ukraine-expert-says-he-tried-correct-voice-recognition-generated-transcript

I seriously doubt that advising Ukranian officials about how to deal with any American is within the scope of Colonel Vindman's job description.

skeeter · « **Reply #27 on:** October 30, 2019, 05:12:06 pm »

Quote from: Bigun on October 30, 2019, 05:03:22 pm

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/white-house-ukraine-expert-says-he-tried-correct-voice-recognition-generated-transcript

I seriously doubt that advising Ukranian officials about how to deal with any American is within the scope of Colonel Vindiman's job description.

Is Vindiman claiming Trump violated any law or is somehow lying about the call? Or does he just disagree with what he heard?

Bigun · « **Reply #28 on:** October 30, 2019, 05:17:33 pm »

Quote from: skeeter on October 30, 2019, 05:12:06 pm

Is Vindiman claiming Trump violated any law or is somehow lying about the call? Or does he just disagree with what he heard?

As best I can tell, he seems to think he heard something not contained in the official transcript. I doubt that very much particularly in view of the fact that he was apparently advising Ukrainian officials on how to "deal with" Rudy Giuliani.

OfTheCross · « **Reply #29 on:** October 30, 2019, 05:26:49 pm »

Quote from: truth_seeker on October 30, 2019, 05:24:31 am

Was the LTC asked to produce his own contemporaneous writings, regarding his attempts to failure to restore the original media, or whatever it was suppsedly?

The GOP should be able to ask this active duty service menber, who directed his efforts? Who were his immediate superiors, and what was he tasked with doing?

Let's look at the "chain of command," insofar as it may be entirely possible he was following unlawful orders?

Who else listened at the same time?

Apparently President Trump was conducting his own foreign policy, at odds with the preferances of the permanent administrative state.

The GOP representatives in the room can ask whatever they'd like.

They've been there the entire time

Absalom · « **Reply #30 on:** October 30, 2019, 06:01:30 pm »

Repeating an assertion made earlier and more than once.
Trump has made many errors in judgement as POTUS which are
explained since he is not a politician, a fair enough retort.
Yet, a wiser man would never allow bureaucratic types, like Vindiman,
who infest DC, free access in the WH to come an go as they please.
The Trump fan club assigns all blame for the impeachment conspiracy
to D's and the media, again fair enough.
Yet al-Baghdadi is dead because of WH silence.
Had silence been imposed on Vindiman and the rest of that posse, by
closing the front door, this impeachment fandango would have ended long ago.

EdJames · « **Reply #31 on:** October 30, 2019, 06:25:16 pm »

Quote from: Absalom on October 30, 2019, 06:01:30 pm

Repeating an assertion made earlier and more than once.
Trump has made many errors in judgement as POTUS which are
explained since he is not a politician, a fair enough retort.
Yet, a wiser man would never allow bureaucratic types, like Vindiman,
who infest DC, free access in the WH to come an go as they please.
The Trump fan club assigns all blame for the impeachment conspiracy
on D's and the media, again fair enough.
Yet al-Baghdadi is dead because of WH silence.
Had silence been imposed on Vindiman and the rest of that posse, by
closing the front door, the impeachment fandango would have ended long ago.

Errr...
The Executive Office of the President has close to 2,000 full-time employees.
The vast majority of which were in place prior to Trump... along with their
virtual lifelong job protections in the form of SES or civil service rules.
It is highly likely that Trump had no idea that Vindman even existed...
And since his original choice for NSC Director was setup and forced out the
door within 10 days, the parade of actors foisted upon him since certainly has done
nothing to protect his interests.... perhaps Mr. O'Brien will handle things differently....

Bigun · « **Reply #32 on:** October 30, 2019, 06:28:08 pm »

Quote from: EdJames on October 30, 2019, 06:25:16 pm

Errr...
The Executive Office of the President has close to 2,000 full-time employees.
The vast majority of which were in place prior to Trump... along with their
virtual lifelong job protections in the form of SES or civil service rules.
It is highly likely that Trump had no idea that Vindman even existed...
And since his original choice for NSC Director was setup and forced out the
door within 10 days, the parade of actors foisted upon him since certainly has done
nothing to protect his interests.... perhaps Mr. O'Brien will handle things differently....

Don't confuse people with facts @EdJames.

Wingnut · « **Reply #33 on:** October 30, 2019, 07:15:19 pm »

Quote from: OfTheCross on October 30, 2019, 05:26:49 pm

The GOP representatives in the room can ask whatever they'd like.

They've been there the entire time

What planet have you been visiting. The DU orbiting uranus.

mystery-ak · « **Reply #34 on:** October 30, 2019, 07:33:46 pm »

Quote from: skeeter on October 30, 2019, 05:12:06 pm

Is Vindiman claiming Trump violated any law or is somehow lying about the call? Or does he just disagree with what he heard?

I know there is a transcript but is there a recording of the call?...Vindiman claims the transcript was edited..

Absalom · « **Reply #35 on:** October 30, 2019, 07:34:36 pm »

Quote from: EdJames on October 30, 2019, 06:25:16 pm

Errr...
The Executive Office of the President has close to 2,000 full-time employees.
The vast majority of which were in place prior to Trump... along with their
virtual lifelong job protections in the form of SES or civil service rules.
It is highly likely that Trump had no idea that Vindman even existed...
And since his original choice for NSC Director was setup and forced out the
door within 10 days, the parade of actors foisted upon him since certainly has done
nothing to protect his interests.... perhaps Mr. O'Brien will handle things differently....

------------------------
Respectfully, a demurral and a repetition of Machiavelli's wisdom.
It is infinitely more important the leader be feared rather than loved!!!
Trump is not feared, even for a moment, which is why he is used and abused.
Great leaders apply confrontation and unsmiling words to frighten, by inducing
trepidation metastasizing into agitation then alarm and finally fear.
Posters chronically bitch and moan about the abyss in DC and wonder why???
It's real simple. The Bureaucracy has its luxurious home shielded from reality.
Seek confrontation by transferring/terminating the bureaucrats and when they
react say unsmilingly to their face. "And you will do what???"
We have not had serious leadership in this nation for at least a century.
Moreover, repeating the same behavior endlessly while expecting a different
result is the very definition of psychosis.
Change begins w/the self.

austingirl · « **Reply #36 on:** October 30, 2019, 07:38:17 pm »

Quote from: EdJames on October 30, 2019, 06:25:16 pm

Errr...
The Executive Office of the President has close to 2,000 full-time employees.
The vast majority of which were in place prior to Trump... along with their
virtual lifelong job protections in the form of SES or civil service rules.
It is highly likely that Trump had no idea that Vindman even existed...
And since his original choice for NSC Director was setup and forced out the
door within 10 days, the parade of actors foisted upon him since certainly has done
nothing to protect his interests.... perhaps Mr. O'Brien will handle things differently....

austingirl · « **Reply #37 on:** October 30, 2019, 07:45:43 pm »

Quote from: mystery-ak on October 30, 2019, 07:33:46 pm

I know there is a transcript but is there a recording of the call?...Vindiman claims the transcript was edited..

There is no recording to my understanding. Several people were on the call. How many agree with Vindiman?

Bigun · « **Reply #38 on:** October 30, 2019, 07:55:55 pm »

U.S. Code Â§â€¯888 Art. 88 Contempt toward officials

Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Homeland Security...
...or the Governor or legislature of any State, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

U.S. Code Â§â€¯794.Gathering or delivering defense information to aid foreign government:

Whoever, with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign nation, communicates, delivers, or transmits, or attempts to communicate, deliver, or transmit, to any foreign government, or to any faction or party or military or naval force within a foreign country, whether recognized or unrecognized by the United States, or to any representative, officer, agent, employee, subject, or citizen thereof, either directly or indirectly, any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, note, instrument, appliance, or information relating to the national defense, shall be punished by death or by imprisonment for any term of years or for life.

aligncare · « **Reply #39 on:** October 30, 2019, 08:03:34 pm »

Quote from: OfTheCross on October 30, 2019, 05:26:49 pm

The GOP representatives in the room can ask whatever they'd like.

They've been there the entire time

Not true when committee chair Adam Schiff instructed a witness not to answer a question posed by a sitting republican (canâ€™t recall which member).

mystery-ak · « **Reply #40 on:** October 30, 2019, 08:15:21 pm »

Quote

U.S. Code Â§â€¯888 Art. 88 Contempt toward officials

Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Homeland Security...
...or the Governor or legislature of any State, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

My hubby keeps reminding me of that

Vindman was not disobeying an order he thought was a crime...he was voicing his opinion against the CinC on foreign policy......big difference

LegalAmerican · « **Reply #41 on:** October 30, 2019, 08:30:03 pm »

Quote from: Once-Ler on October 30, 2019, 05:58:59 am

https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2019/10/Vindmanstatementfinal.pdf
Vidman's opening statement

Opening Statement of Lieutenant Colonel Alexander S. Vindman
Before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, the House
Committee on Foreign Affairs, and the House Committee on Oversight and Reform
/snipped
Conclusion

The United States and Ukraine are and must remain strategic partners, working
together to realize the shared vision of a stable, prosperous, and democratic
Ukraine that is integrated into the Euro-Atlantic community. Our partnership is
rooted in the idea that free citizens should be able to exercise their democratic
rights, choose their own destiny, and live in peace.

It has been a great honor to serve the American people and a privilege to work in
the White House and on the National Security Council. I hope to continue to serve
and advance Americaâ€™s national security interests.

Thank you again for your consideration, and now I would be happy to answer your
questions.

I stopped reading after the first few paragraphs. All the honeyed words. What is his point in 'testifying' to some words?
I don't think, he is very honorable. He is undermining our, my, president. To what purpose? Not, for we the people.
I posted the words of Biden & some video. Then President TRUMP has the law on his side to ask about corruption by Ukraine with 1998 law put in by Clinton. This is misleading the public. What is HIS AGENDA?

EdJames · « **Reply #42 on:** October 30, 2019, 08:31:58 pm »

Quote from: Absalom on October 30, 2019, 07:34:36 pm

------------------------
Respectfully, a demurral and a repetition of Machiavelli's wisdom.
It is infinitely more important the leader be feared rather than loved!!!
Trump is not feared, even for a moment, which is why he is used and abused.
Great leaders apply confrontation and unsmiling words to frighten, by inducing
trepidation metastasizing into agitation then alarm and finally fear.
Posters chronically bitch and moan about the abyss in DC and wonder why???
It's real simple. The Bureaucracy has its luxurious home shielded from reality.
Seek confrontation by transferring/terminating the bureaucrats and when they
react say unsmilingly to their face. "And you will do what???"
We have not had serious leadership in this nation for at least a century.
Moreover, repeating the same behavior endlessly while expecting a different
result is the very definition of psychosis.
Change begins w/the self.

Almost 500 years have passed since those days.... Witness Trump, threatened
with obstruction of justice charges for seeking the resignation of those "serving"
at his pleasure.... review the SES gripe on their fiefdoms where they function
as feudal lords... 500 years has brought much change.... not all for the better....

LegalAmerican · « **Reply #43 on:** October 30, 2019, 08:37:03 pm »

Quote from: mystery-ak on October 30, 2019, 08:15:21 pm

My hubby keeps reminding me of that

Vindman was not disobeying an order he thought was a crime...he was voicing his opinion against the CinC on foreign policy......big difference

Below;
----------------

In 1998 Bill Clinton Sent to the senate for approval A treaty Negotiated With the Ukraine As well as others on sharing criminal activity information. Criminal information sharing treaty. This treaty Obligates countries That have knowledge Of corruption Taken place In our country Are others That affect both countries.Therefore the conversation in question is approved by treaties between our country others IE the Ukraine By this treaty any U.S. president can share and/or request information on topics of criminal activity.

Found links1. Treaty with Russia on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal

...https://www.congress.gov/treaty-documen ... ument-textThe Treaty covers mutual legal assistance in criminal matters. In recent years, similar bilateral treaties have entered into force with a number of countries. This Treaty contains many provisions similar to those in the other treaties and all of the essential provisions sought by the United States.

2. INCSR 1998: Belize - 1997-2001.state.govhttps://1997-2001.state.gov/global/narc ... elize.htmlIn August 1998 a new government was elected and took power. The new administration is committed to launching a rigorous campaign against drugs and other criminal activity. Work is underway with the new government to sign an overflight amendment to the existing shiprider agreement and to establish an international asset-sharing program.

3. Did You Know Thereâ€™s a Treaty Between the USA ...dcwhispers.com/doh-did-you-know-theres-a-treaty-between-the-usa-ukraine-regarding...Sep 25, 2019 Â· The Treaty is one of a series of modern mutual legal assistance treaties being negotiated by the United States in order to counter criminal activities more effectively. The Treaty should be an effective tool to assist in the prosecution of a wide variety of crimes, including drug trafficking offenses. The Treaty is self-executing.4.

Crim 401 Contemporary Issues of Crime Flashcards | Quizlethttps://quizlet.com/159021974/crim-401- ... lash-cardsStart studying Crim 401 Contemporary Issues of Crime. Learn vocabulary, terms, and more with flashcards, games, and other study tools. ... The European agency charged with facilitating the sharing of information among EU countries regarding crimes and criminals in the European Union ... The criminal activity linked to computers that occurs when ...

LegalAmerican · « **Reply #44 on:** October 30, 2019, 08:41:39 pm »

Quote from: Free Vulcan on October 30, 2019, 06:18:19 am

Michael Flynn is also a decorated vet.

Yes, excellent point. I don't think Vindman is doing something honorable and I believe he is a democrat. An article said he is jewish, and his family ran from soviet Russia/ Ukraine to USA .
I would say he is a democrat.

LegalAmerican · « **Reply #45 on:** October 30, 2019, 08:46:19 pm »

Glenn
---------------------------

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

LegalAmerican · « **Reply #46 on:** October 30, 2019, 09:28:55 pm »

Quote from: Bigun on October 30, 2019, 05:03:22 pm

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/white-house-ukraine-expert-says-he-tried-correct-voice-recognition-generated-transcript

I seriously doubt that advising Ukranian officials about how to deal with any American is within the scope of Colonel Vindiman's job description.

I say, he is democrat. Yes it makes a difference. Vindman may be hiding something about HIMSELF!

Sighlass · « **Reply #47 on:** October 30, 2019, 09:30:07 pm »

Quote from: LegalAmerican on October 30, 2019, 08:46:19 pm

Glenn (w/video link)
---------------------------

It is hard to keep up, are Trump supporters now claiming Glenn Beck back as a reliable source or not? Or is it an on again off again relationship?

LegalAmerican · « **Reply #48 on:** October 30, 2019, 09:43:12 pm »

Quote from: mystery-ak on October 30, 2019, 07:33:46 pm

I know there is a transcript but is there a recording of the call?...Vindiman claims the transcript was edited..

President did nothing wrong. President has the LAW on his side. I posted it. 1998 law put in by Clinton, gives president RIGHT TO ASK ABOUT CORRUPTION. Vindman thinks, president can't ask Ukraine about corruption. Can we find out, if Vindman is a democrat?
-----------------------------------

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

LegalAmerican · « **Reply #49 on:** October 30, 2019, 09:49:49 pm »

Quote from: Sighlass on October 30, 2019, 09:30:07 pm

It is hard to keep up, are Trump supporters now claiming Glenn Beck back as a reliable source or not? Or is it an on again off again relationship?

Glenn says he has seen the error of his ways, and has come to support TRUMP. Glenn was a NEVER TRUMPER. I still don't totally trust him, and he still puts in some zingers against president, but if you listen, you have to discern the truth from the chaff. He has put some things together that are true. So you are saying once, something goes AGAINST a policy, person, they HAVE TO CONTINUE? They can't change their mind with NEW INFORMATION? It isn''t a partisan issue. It is about finding truth, where ever it may come from. One has to discern. No knee jerk, sos. I can discern.

P.S. Are you listening to Glenn? Good for you!