Author Topic: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.  (Read 803 times)

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Offline OfTheCross

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Quote
While the Civil War tweet is getting more attention, the Schiff tweet may be a bigger deal. The president accusing a member of Congress of treason for something they said on the House or Senate floor is unconstitutional. "Trump's tweet is by itself arguably impeachable," suggested political science professor Jacob Levy

His lies were made in perhaps the most blatant and sinister manner ever seen in the great Chamber. He wrote down and read terrible things, then said it was from the mouth of the President of the United States. I want Schiff questioned at the highest level for Fraud & Treason…..

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) September 29, 2019

The relevant part of the U.S. Constitution is known as the speech and debate clause. It says:

For any Speech or Debate in either House, [members of Congress] shall not be questioned in any other Place.

reason

The speech and debate clause
If a well-regulated militia be the most natural defense of a free country, it ought certainly to be under the regulation and at the disposal of that body which is constituted the guardian of the national security.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2019, 02:34:44 pm »
It's a tweet, calm down.   The President hasn't issued an order or attempted to censure Schiff in violation of the speech and debate clause.   It's just a tweet, an expression of the President's palpable and understandable disgust.

As for his civil war tweet,  maybe it's time. 
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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2019, 02:38:10 pm »
Let's at least post the whole sentence

They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2019, 02:44:59 pm »
The speech and debate clause

So, how is exercising one's First Amendment rights a violation of speech and debate clause?  @OfTheCross

Online catfish1957

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2019, 03:08:42 pm »
Everyone here knows I am not a Trump enthusiast, but the level of vitriol the dims have exhibited since Day 1 toward this POTUS begs for retribution.  Just sayin'

It's a 2 way street mofos. 
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2019, 03:19:13 pm »
Everyone here knows I am not a Trump enthusiast, but the level of vitriol the dims have exhibited since Day 1 toward this POTUS begs for retribution.  Just sayin'

It's a 2 way street mofos.

I'm no particular fan of the President either.  But there comes a time to circle the wagons.    Ironically,  if the Dems had shut up about impeachment,  they'd likely be in a position to nominate a perceived "moderate" (Biden) who could garner the "normalcy" vote.   Instead,  they'll not only galvanize Republicans to back the President they'll also likely nominate a socialist that will turn off independents.   
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2019, 03:21:03 pm »
I'm no particular fan of the President either.  But there comes a time to circle the wagons.    Ironically,  if the Dems had shut up about impeachment,  they'd likely be in a position to nominate a perceived "moderate" (Biden) who could garner the "normalcy" vote.   Instead,  they'll not only galvanize Republicans to back the President they'll also likely nominate a socialist that will turn off independents.

This is interesting.  If both you and @catfish1957 are talking this way, I wonder if there is an even wider acceptance of the situation and willingness to be galvanized?

Online catfish1957

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2019, 03:27:56 pm »
This is interesting.  If both you and @catfish1957 are talking this way, I wonder if there is an even wider acceptance of the situation and willingness to be galvanized?

Here is the best way I can put it. 

With a Sanders, Warren, or Harris on the dim ticket?

The saying "This is the most important election of our lifetime" is tired old cliche.

Except in this instance it would be the God's honest Gospel

OTOH, if someone like Zell Miller or Scoop Jackson ran aginst Trump.....   It would the first time in my life I would ever vote for a democrat, when had a choice.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 03:29:49 pm by catfish1957 »
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2019, 03:30:54 pm »
Here is the best way I can put it. 

With a Sanders, Warren, or Harris on the dim ticket?

The saying "This is the most important election of our lifetime" is tired old cliche.

Except in this instance it would be the God's honest Gospel

OTOH, if someone like Zell Miller or Scoop Jackson ran aginst Trump.....   It would the first time in my life I would ever vote for a democrat, when had a choice.

Not to worry about being put in that position because a Miller or Jackson would never get anywhere near the nomination now.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2019, 04:18:53 pm »
It must be a brand new week....
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline austingirl

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2019, 04:21:10 pm »
Not to worry about being put in that position because a Miller or Jackson would never get anywhere near the nomination now.

If JFK were running as a democrat today, he would be canceled in a heartbeat.
Principles matter. Words matter.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2019, 05:35:14 pm »
If JFK were running as a democrat today, he would be canceled in a heartbeat.

JFK would not be a democrat today.

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No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2019, 06:23:08 pm »



@corbe

Did that Williamson chick hack your TBR account? :tongue2:
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online corbe

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2019, 06:31:53 pm »
   I guess so @Cyber Liberty I did a job this morning for an older woman that had crystals all over her beautiful Lake front home so she could prepare and read Astrological charts on an old Win 7 Laptop I sold her years ago (no longer supported on her huge, new Apple PC) and YES she was as pretty as Marianne Williamson (for her age). She's also a very talented artist with cleavage she's proud of.  I only charged her $60.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2019, 06:44:39 pm »
The Dems have been calling Trump a traitor, etc. on and off the floor of Congress for over two and a half years. When did Trump lose his 1st Amendment freedom of speech?
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Online libertybele

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2019, 07:41:18 pm »
The Dems have been calling Trump a traitor, etc. on and off the floor of Congress for over two and a half years. When did Trump lose his 1st Amendment freedom of speech?

When Hillary lost the election.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline OfTheCross

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2019, 07:51:52 am »
So, how is exercising one's First Amendment rights a violation of speech and debate clause?  @OfTheCross

I'd have to refer you to the article posted in the OP for an explanation.

I know you can't yell "fire!" in a crowded theater...maybe as President, you can't say certain things in public
If a well-regulated militia be the most natural defense of a free country, it ought certainly to be under the regulation and at the disposal of that body which is constituted the guardian of the national security.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2019, 11:05:01 am »
I know you can't yell "fire!" in a crowded theater...maybe as President, you can't say certain things in public 

What about as Speaker of the House ... are there any certain things she can't say in public?  Or as an elected Representative ... any certain things they can't say in public? 

What about "journalists" and "reporters" .... any limitations on them?



Offline OfTheCross

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2019, 12:04:22 pm »
What about as Speaker of the House ... are there any certain things she can't say in public?  Or as an elected Representative ... any certain things they can't say in public? 

What about "journalists" and "reporters" .... any limitations on them?

Well, as far as journalists and reporters, I believe Libel law cover them.

As far as congressmen and women, I don't know. I'd have to read Constitution again, but I don't think there's anything in there. Maybe there might be a Congressional rule against it.

Do you know?
If a well-regulated militia be the most natural defense of a free country, it ought certainly to be under the regulation and at the disposal of that body which is constituted the guardian of the national security.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2019, 12:16:51 pm »
As far as congressmen and women, I don't know. I'd have to read Constitution again, but I don't think there's anything in there. Maybe there might be a Congressional rule against it.

Do you know? 

Here's what I know:  You're pushing a double standard.  The President, as President, can't say certain things, but the Speaker, as Speaker, ... well, there's nothing in the Constitution about it so she's free to say whatever she wants. 




Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2019, 12:34:36 pm »
I'd have to refer you to the article posted in the OP for an explanation.

I know you can't yell "fire!" in a crowded theater...maybe as President, you can't say certain things in public

Well, sir, maybe some things need to be said.

This "impeachment inquiry" has been initiated by the say-so of the Speaker, not a vote of the entire House as was done with Presidents Clinton, Nixon and Johnson.

The minority was given the right to subpoena witnesses in the Clinton impeachment,  whereas here the rights of the minority are being trampled.   Here's what Georgia Rep.  Doug Collins said the other day:

Quote
"Vigourous debate and formal votes are part of our democracy.  When one party silences the other by gaveling down debate, denying subpoena power, and refusing to hold votes, they are hiding from accountability to the electorate.  It's more than partisan - it's antidemocratic.  . . .

Until now, only the full House could trigger impeachment proceedings.  By denying that vote,  [Pelosi] is laying the ground for perpetual impeachment proceeding - and transforming the most severe constitutional power into an irreverent messaging tool." 

Well the people need to send a message of their own,  by any means at their disposal.   And as for "civil war fractures",  listen to Gerald Nadler himself, about a year ago in an interview with Roll Call:

Quote
  If you're serious about removing a president from office, what you're really doing is overturning the results of the last election.  You don't want a situation where you tear this country apart, and for the next 30 years half the country's saying "we won the election, you stole it". 

Well, that's right,  Mr. Nadler, you don't want that.   But now you do.  Now you want to steal it.    Over sixty million Americans elected this President, and you would deny their sovereignty.   How is that any less of a fracture than what triggered the Civil War?   
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 12:37:10 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline OfTheCross

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2019, 12:37:03 pm »
Here's what I know:  You're pushing a double standard.  The President, as President, can't say certain things, but the Speaker, as Speaker, ... well, there's nothing in the Constitution about it so she's free to say whatever she wants.

So, am I pushing a double standard or is the Constitution? We'll see how it plays out. The attorney in the OP thinks there may be something there.
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Offline XenaLee

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2019, 01:32:13 pm »
The speech and debate clause

Yeah....well.... the main problem with this "clause" is....

the Democrats haven't been engaged in "legislative work" for over three years now.   All they have been engaged in is attempting to overturn a legally elected president.  They've been focused only on harassing and hounding Trump to the detriment of the entire nation.   Obstruction and resistance has been their only priority.   They have taken their role as America's "enemy within" to a whole new level.

And speaking of "legislative work".....let's not forget... that under Obama, the "legislative work" they engaged in was to, in effect, ram the worst and most anti-constitutional piece of crap legislation in the history of this nation down the throats of Americans, against the will of the majority of Americans and with not a single Republican supporting it.   And they had the balls to call that crap legislation the "Affordable Care Act"... when it was anything BUT affordable for average Americans, which is ironic since even they and their staffers were conveniently made "exempt" due to that unaffordability.   They are fascist, anti-America radical leftists that care NOTHING about the average American voter and they are proving that every day in every way.  Eff Democrats!
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Trump's Civil War Tweet Is Bad. This Other Tweet May Be Unconstitutional.
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2019, 01:51:04 pm »
So, am I pushing a double standard or is the Constitution? We'll see how it plays out. The attorney in the OP thinks there may be something there.

It's not in the Constitution.