Trump cancels secret meeting with Taliban leaders, Afghan president after attack[updated]

[TomSea]

Afghan Government Praises Trump Suspension of U.S.-Taliban Negotiations
https://www.wsj.com/articles/afghan-government-praises-trump-suspension-of-u-s-taliban-negotiations-11567956075

Klobuchar blasts Trump's handling of canceled Taliban talks: 'Treating foreign policy like some kind of game show'
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/klobuchar-blasts-trumps-taliban-handling

Okay, Klobuchar's view might be grandstanding but some are saying similar...

But I think the WSJ article is probably correct, Afghan Govt. praises the decision (repeating), something of this nature.

And the Taliban has spoken saying "More Americans will die".

So, indeed, a quandary.

[Fishrrman]

TomSea wrote:
"Folks, the whole peace deal is cancelled per the BBC..."

"Peace deal" ???

There was never going to BE "a peace deal" between the taliban and the U.S. backed Afghan leaders, any more than there can ever be a peace deal between the "palestinians" and Israel.

Any "deal" the taliban "signed" would be [to them] nothing more than a "hudna".
Look that up, if you don't know what it means.

[TomSea]

Chris Wallace Grills Pompeo On Taliban Invite: 'Who Thought It Was A Good Idea?'
[HuffPost]  Hayley Miller     HuffPost8 September 2019
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/chris-wallace-mike-pompeo-taliban-174014785.html

Pompeo:  "Killed over a thousand Taliban in the last 10 days". Wow.

It's huffpo but off of the yahoo feed which isn't too bad.  The fox news video excerpt is at link.

[TomSea]

Julia Davis (Washington Post mainly), I'll bet she thinks there was something to that Russian Hoax theory but that's pretty much came crashing down... but she's obviously intelligent and covers Russia/Ukraine, over there.

She tweets:

Julia Davis
@JuliaDavisNews
Taliban says that the cancellation of U.S./Taliban talks will lead to more American casualties, #Russia's state media chimes in to say that "neither the USA, nor the EU or Asian states, nor other prosperous countries are protected from terrorists." Clearly coordinated messaging.



https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1170738381187354625/photo/1

I'm not sure what she's getting at here, "coordinated" ... but with a grain of salt, she might be worth checking out some.

Julia's twitter: https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews

[Sanguine]

So, isn't it usually people we are at odds with that we have peace talks with?  I mean if we already in agreement, why do we need peace talks?

And, I don't care about the Taliban being at Camp David.  I'm not wild about it, but if that brings about some sort of acceptable agreement and keeps our service members from getting killed by Afghans, I think it should be pursued.

[Applewood]

So, isn't it usually people we are at odds with that we have peace talks with?  I mean if we already in agreement, why do we need peace talks?

And, I don't care about the Taliban being at Camp David.  I'm not wild about it, but if that brings about some sort of acceptable agreement and keeps our service members from getting killed by Afghans, I think it should be pursued.

Except we in the west are infidels and always will be.   As such, they feel no obligation to honor any agreement.  It will be violated before the ink on the signatures are dry.

[TomSea]

Afghans Urge Taliban To End The War After Trump’s Move | TOLOnews

Afghans on Sunday reacted with hope and confusion to the US President Donald Trump’s decision after he said in a series of tweets that Washington was calling off the talks with the Taliban following Thursday deadly bombing in Kabul that left at least 12 people dead including them one American soldier.

They urged the Taliban to swiftly agree on a ceasefire and resume the talks with the US side and the Afghan government.

But at the same time, there are serious concerns growing among the embattled Afghans that Trump’s move on the talks could further lead to the expansion of the war and violence by the Taliban that will take the lives of more civilians.

Read more at: https://www.tolonews.com/afghanistan/afghans-urge-taliban-end-war-after-trump%E2%80%99s-move

Trump's playing chess while the others are playing checkers, good move... No, I'm just kidding and I don't mean to make light of the situation.

So, many people are getting killed and I'm sure many more maimed, injured, it's hard to see this thing turning around rapidly.

Still, I read some article, I'm not sure where, it said a number of "bad" people have been to camp David. Does this mean, say someone like Arafat? Back in the day? Maybe.

[Sanguine]

Except we in the west are infidels and always will be.   As such, they feel no obligation to honor any agreement.  It will be violated before the ink on the signatures are dry.

So, what should be the plan?  What do we do?  @Applewood?

[TomSea]

A young Afghan pledged to better his country. Then he was shot dead.
By Siobhán O'Grady and Sharif Hassan
September 8 at 7:09 PM

KABUL —  The last time Musa Mahmodi saw his friend alive, the young human rights defender said he knew his life was at risk.

It was August in Kabul, and Abdul Samad Amiri, 28, had recently traveled the 10 hours east to the capital from his home province of Ghowr, where persistent threats from the Taliban and local militias had created an increasingly volatile environment.

“The Taliban was everywhere there, and I was so scared,” Mahmodi, Amiri’s former boss at Afghanistan’s governmental Independent Human Rights Commission, recalled Amiri saying about his journey.

Read more at: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/a-young-afghan-pledged-to-better-his-country-then-he-was-shot-dead/2019/09/08/9640be50-d077-11e9-a620-0a91656d7db6_story.html

I can see how there would be Far East Asian-looking people there, it still surprises me a bit. I think you have a number of Indian looking people there too... and they are a bit of a Cricket power, despite all of the hardship that goes on there.

Reading this article, okay, it's right before 9/11 at that... but perhaps, it is good to try to meet with some of these people, he was going to meet their president and the Taliban but of course, not together.

[TomSea]

Except we in the west are infidels and always will be.   As such, they feel no obligation to honor any agreement.  It will be violated before the ink on the signatures are dry.

So what are we suggesting?

Stay?

Leave?

President Bush 43 is the one who sent in troops, we had to do something.

[truth_seeker]

So what are we suggesting?

Stay?

Leave?

President Bush 43 is the one who sent in troops, we had to do something.

But apparently he became distracted by Iraq, and left the Afghanistan adventure suspended half-way.

When he leftoffice we had two suspended incomplete wars, lost the House, and an economy about to collapse.

Obama did no better.

And 18 years after 9/11/2001 Afghan still exports terrorism and heroin poppies.

[Applewood]

So what are we suggesting?

Stay?

Leave?

President Bush 43 is the one who sent in troops, we had to do something.

President Bush was right to send in troops to Iraq and Afghsnistan.  But the problem seems to be that this country never really seems to want to win wars anymore.  Since WW II the US has not for the most part won a war.  Wars have generally ended in stalemates or losses.

Now before you all yell at me for disrespecting our miltary, let me emphasize that.these losses and stalemates are not the fault of our military.  The problem is that our military is hamstrung by meddlesome politicians, lack of funding, affirmative actions and being forced to accept those whose only qualifications are that they belong to a certain protected group -- women, certain races, certain perverted lifestyles and so on.  Now I have no objection to the military accepting certain races and such if these people could actually do the job.  But it seems to me in order to meet certain quotas for service personnel of a particular group, the military has had to lower standards.  The result has been a military largely incapable of winning a war.

So if we are more interested in diversity than in winning, then maybe we should pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq before more of our people get kilked.

[TomSea]

President Bush was right to send in troops to Iraq and Afghsnistan.  But the problem seems to be that this country never really seems to want to win wars anymore.  Since WW II the US has not for the most part won a war.  Wars have generally ended in stalemates or losses.

Now before you all yell at me for disrespecting our miltary, let me emphasize that.these losses and stalemates are not the fault of our military.  The problem is that our military is hamstrung by meddlesome politicians, lack of funding, affirmative actions and being forced to accept those whose only qualifications are that they belong to a certain protected group -- women, certain races, certain perverted lifestyles and so on.  Now I have no objection to the military accepting certain races and such if these people could actually do the job.  But it seems to me in order to meet certain quotas for service personnel of a particular group, the military has had to lower standards.  The result has been a military largely incapable of winning a war.

So if we are more interested in diversity than in winning, then maybe we should pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq before more of our people get kilked.

Don't accuse me of yelling, you bring  your  usual Trump-hate here and it's not welcome. You have two attacks on the president here

Withdraw out of Iraq? Like Obama did? Maybe he's your politician. Help create ISIS? No thank you.

[EdJames]

President Bush was right to send in troops to Iraq and Afghsnistan.  But the problem seems to be that this country never really seems to want to win wars anymore.  Since WW II the US has not for the most part won a war.  Wars have generally ended in stalemates or losses.

Now before you all yell at me for disrespecting our miltary, let me emphasize that.these losses and stalemates are not the fault of our military.  The problem is that our military is hamstrung by meddlesome politicians, lack of funding, affirmative actions and being forced to accept those whose only qualifications are that they belong to a certain protected group -- women, certain races, certain perverted lifestyles and so on.  Now I have no objection to the military accepting certain races and such if these people could actually do the job.  But it seems to me in order to meet certain quotas for service personnel of a particular group, the military has had to lower standards.  The result has been a military largely incapable of winning a war.

So if we are more interested in diversity than in winning, then maybe we should pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq before more of our people get kilked.

@Applewood

While the items that you list certainly don't help matters, if you want to really understand the answer to your implied question, you need to dig a bit deeper, and examine the question in a larger context.

I suggest doing some searches (using multiple search engines, as you will get different sets of results from each of them) using "low grade perpetual war" as your search term.  You can also add the Cui bono?  (literally "to whom is it a benefit?") aspect as well.

Select a wide range of articles, read them, and then reflect...  Read articles from all types of sources (to get a broader view of the topic), ultimately you will be able to formulate your own answer to this, often overlooked, but very important question.

Here are a few articles that you may wish to begin with, but please do make the effort to research and find your own.  Resist the instinct of being concerned if a source seems "liberal" or "conservative" on its face, because on this topic particularly, the lines are very blurred.... seek the truth!!

https://mises.org/wire/economics-perpetual-war

https://www.truthinmedia.org/Columns/chronicles-aug-98.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/05/how-perpetual-war-became-us-ideology/238600/

https://foreignpolicy.com/2011/03/21/what-intervention-in-libya-tells-us-about-the-neocon-liberal-alliance/

[EdJames]

Don't accuse me of yelling, you bring  your  usual Trump-hate here and it's not welcome. You have two attacks on the president here

Withdraw out of Iraq? Like Obama did? Maybe he's your politician. Help create ISIS? No thank you.

@TomSea

What happens to you?

Most often you prove yourself as a thoughtful and measured respondent....  you are a top-notch researcher and digger that strives to be unbiased in presenting your results to us...  why do you blow your top like this?

 

[Applewood]

Don't accuse me of yelling, you bring  your  usual Trump-hate here and it's not welcome. You have two attacks on the president here

Withdraw out of Iraq? Like Obama did? Maybe he's your politician. Help create ISIS? No thank you.

Utter BS Tom and you know it.  Where in my last post did I even mention Trump by name?   The problems with our military and how we wage war predates Trump's presidency by at least 50 years.

[Applewood]

Thanks @EdJames for the articles.  I will read them later.  I have to leave.

[musiclady]

President Bush was right to send in troops to Iraq and Afghsnistan.  But the problem seems to be that this country never really seems to want to win wars anymore.  Since WW II the US has not for the most part won a war.  Wars have generally ended in stalemates or losses.

Now before you all yell at me for disrespecting our miltary, let me emphasize that.these losses and stalemates are not the fault of our military.  The problem is that our military is hamstrung by meddlesome politicians, lack of funding, affirmative actions and being forced to accept those whose only qualifications are that they belong to a certain protected group -- women, certain races, certain perverted lifestyles and so on.  Now I have no objection to the military accepting certain races and such if these people could actually do the job.  But it seems to me in order to meet certain quotas for service personnel of a particular group, the military has had to lower standards.  The result has been a military largely incapable of winning a war.

So if we are more interested in diversity than in winning, then maybe we should pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq before more of our people get kilked.

Agree with this post.

America no longer has what it takes to win wars.

But you still can't negotiate with terrorists.  They don't honor anyone or anything.

(Ducking head, preparing for incoming......)

[Sanguine]

Agree with this post.

America no longer has what it takes to win wars.

But you still can't negotiate with terrorists.  They don't honor anyone or anything.

(Ducking head, preparing for incoming......)

Ducking won't help.  Same question to you: we are where we are, you say we shouldn't negotiate with those in power there, what is your plan?

[TomSea]

Except we in the west are infidels and always will be.   As such, they feel no obligation to honor any agreement.  It will be violated before the ink on the signatures are dry.

This just says the president is gullible.  By the freaking way, from someone who never posts in this forum.

And if that is not enough, if you want to argue that is no put down, here is this uninformed comment:

@jmyrlefuller

Trump's foreign policy has consisted of making nice to the US' enemies while bad mouthing our allies.  Obama was chummy with terrorist countries in the Middle East.  Trump has continued the practice and made it worse.  But according to Trump supporters, this is ok because it's Trump.

Which thankfully, was rebutted pretty easily.

No, unless, Trump can be slammed, we don't hear from this member here.

Oh, but President Bush did what needed to be done. But politicians aren't letting the military win. Well, president Bush is a politician.

So, we have to go around the mulberry bush, same with when one shows up to criticize over North Korea, oh, I guess it would be better to have a nuclear war.

Or it would be better to have ISIS, we already saw the quoted post, "get out of Iraq", create ISiS.  Yeah, you said it, you can't run away from your statement.

This is just nonsense, I stand by it.

And Bushies will say Oh, but Dubya did what needed to be done.

Trump salvaged the Iraq debacle.

No body is backtracking on their words.

If we got to get down in the gutter Bushies, Trump stopped the genocide of Christians who were there for 2,000 years, no thanks to Zero and Bush both.

[TomSea]

They are the infidel and they want to kill us, they will be back at war before the ink dries.

I wonder if George W. Bush would agree with this? General Mattis? They have made all attempts.

Trump is to be commended for trying to straighten out the disaster.

And what "alternatives" are the gripers offering? Withdraw, withdraw and create ISIS like in Iraq, somewhat pacified because of the US now and pacified by 2011.

Yeah, if someone is coming up with Barackism here, I will point it out.

Withdraw and allow terrorists a haven to plan terror again, at least, that's what Senator Rubio says.

So, yeah, no apologies, one can read the words for themselves.

Sensitive feelings ain't mine, I'm not claiming "BS" or "yelling" from someone. Someone makes claims, let's back it up.

[Applewood]

 

I give up trying to have a normal and reasonable dialog with members of the Trump cult.

[Sanguine]

I give up trying to have a normal and reasonable dialog with members of the Trump cult.

I'm not a member of the "Trump cult", but does this mean you have no answers as to what to do, just criticism?

[Right_in_Virginia]

America no longer has what it takes to win wars. 

We don't go to war any more.  We go on excursions.  18 years ago W told us we're going into Afghanistan on an excursion to the  kill Al Queda militants who "brought these buildings down".

How the hell did this turn into a lifetime commitment of American blood and treasure?

[TomSea]

There are people's lives at stake,  now, turning this into some political football again speaks for itself. It would be smart to just try to do the right thing. Anyone can launch broadsides on a politician.

And an 18 year old war to try to wind down responsibly, not irresponsibly like Barry did in Iraq, oh, I forgot, we should withdraw from there too.

Worked out fine the first time, didn't it?