Every American Should Hope Trump Prevails Against China

[Elderberry]

The Atlantic by Joseph W. Sullivan 8/20/2019

Working on economic policy at the White House, I came to understand that the stakes of the confrontation are far higher than those of trade alone.

I spent much of the past two years on the staff of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, thinking about U.S. trade policy toward China. Many people, including me, were focused on the economics of this issue. Many still are.

The blow-by-blow of the bout between the world’s two economic heavyweights is easy to follow. The world’s stock markets gyrate in response to the trade news of the day; the U.S. dollar falls versus the Chinese yuan, and the president responds. Each new piece of macroeconomic data is interrogated until it mumbles something about tariffs. Even the Federal Reserve has weighed in.

But the economics of the U.S.-China trade dispute will never tell its full story. Sooner or later, the current U.S.-China trade conflict will be resolved, and either the U.S. or China will be seen as the winner, in terms of direct economic consequences.

The trade dispute, though, is now about much more than economics—it’s testing whether a democratically elected government can prevail in the face of the authoritarian government of the world’s most populous country. And everyone who values democracy or human rights should hope that, one way or another, the United States ultimately prevails in that struggle.

The sound and fury that now accompany the release of any new U.S. economic data signify something less than even the data themselves would suggest. Each release of gross-domestic-product data from the Bureau of Economic Analysis is probed for evidence of the trade conflict’s effects. Yet even the best methods of interrogation will yield at least some untruths: Within months, the BEA itself will almost certainly consider this initial “advanced” GDP data to be wrong. Each quarter’s initial GDP estimate is typically revised by the BEA twice within three months, and four times within five years.

More: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/08/china-vs-democracy/596248/

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Spot on.

[aligncare]

Very comforting knowing that Donald Trump understands the stakes. In fact, his position on China and trade is well known; he’s been talking publicly about it for years.

It’s good to have a patriotic American in the WH, again.

[Absalom]

Agree there's a paramount issue here but argue it ain't economics.
As history attests, the greatest nation/states survived and prospered
because their virtues transcended their vices.
Political types characterize our fight w/China in economic terms.WRONG!
China has been authoritarian since 1,500 BC and as a result fosters a
culture/society that cheats, lies and steals.
Our fight w/China is a contest between honor and dishonor, hardly economics.
Further, narrowing the fight to economics gives leverage to our crony capitalists, 
such as the Chamber, the Business Roundtable and the rest of the scumbags
who infest the halls of congress; making their living by cheating, lying and stealing.

[Hoodat]

Every American should hope that Trump stops spending $2 trillion every year that we don't have.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

For any interested, here's a snapshot of what's at stake.

The Hundred-Year Marathon
CHINA’S SECRET STRATEGY TO REPLACE AMERICA AS THE GLOBAL SUPERPOWER.
or more than forty years, the United States has played an indispensable role helping the Chinese government build a booming economy, develop its scientific and military capabilities, and take its place on the world stage, in the belief that China’s rise will bring us cooperation, diplomacy, and free trade. But what if the “China Dream” is to replace us, just as America replaced the British Empire, without firing a shot?

Based on interviews with Chinese defectors and newly declassified, previously undisclosed national security documents, The Hundred-Year Marathon reveals China’s secret strategy to supplant the United States as the world’s dominant power, and to do so by 2049, the one-hundredth anniversary of the founding of the People’s Republic. Michael Pillsbury, a fluent Mandarin speaker who has served in senior national security positions in the U.S. government since the days of Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger, draws on his decades of contact with the “hawks” in China’s military and intelligence agencies and translates their documents, speeches, and books to show how the teachings of traditional Chinese statecraft underpin their actions. He offers an inside look at how the Chinese really view America and its leaders – as barbarians who will be the architects of their own demise.

Pillsbury also explains how the U.S. government has helped – sometimes unwittingly and sometimes deliberately – to make this “China Dream” come true, and he calls for the United States to implement a new, more competitive strategy toward China as it really is, and not as we might wish it to be. The Hundred-Year Marathon is a wake-up call as we face the greatest national security challenge of the twenty-first century.
https://thehundredyearmarathon.com/

[roamer_1]

No, the solution is to get government out of the way, and the unions out of the way, and the merchant's groups out of the way AND COMPETE.

If you want Chevys to beat Toyotas, Chevy has to build a better car at a better price.

[Bigun]

No, the solution is to get government out of the way, and the unions out of the way, and the merchant's groups out of the way AND COMPETE.

If you want Chevys to beat Toyotas, Chevy has to build a better car at a better price.

All of that is true, and a tax code that didn't put our manufacturers at a competitive disadvantage from the get go wouldn't hurt.

[roamer_1]

All of that is true, and a tax code that didn't put our manufacturers at a competitive disadvantage from the get go wouldn't hurt.

That's right. the operational overhead is ridiculous.
Build cars, dammit. and build em good.

[Absalom]

So China will be the next world power, will they???
An emphatic demurral and a tale from history.
In the 4th century BC, Persia laid claim as the ranking world power yet Greece refused to
kow-tow; so the Persians decided to crush them.
Both met at Gaugamela, Mesopotamia where the Greeks were outnumbered some 5 to 1.
The Persians were led by Darius III, another Asian authoritarian, but the Greeks were led
by Alexander and the result was predictable.
Within a matter of hours, the Persians were annihilated and their Empire destroyed.
So much for these self labeled Asian powerhouses.
The lesson was repeated centuries later by Rome involving Carthage.
Authoritarian regimes sow the seeds of their own destruction because they destroy all
creative impulses within their culture/society; as a threat to their rule and China is exhibit A!
As for Pillsbury, he is little more than a 'yes sir' man for the Chinese bureaucracy who spoon
feed him their self-serving plans for China, knowing his political connections will guarantee
a receptive audience in Washington.
Next time China defeats Japan in a war or even a single battle, please alert me immediately.

[Hoodat]

All of that is true, and a tax code that didn't put our manufacturers at a competitive disadvantage from the get go wouldn't hurt.

The most asinine tax rule of all is to tax money entering this country.  GM makes billions of dollars oversees, yet gets punished if it tries to bring that money to invest here.

[Bigun]

The most asinine tax rule of all is to tax money entering this country.  GM makes billions of dollars oversees, yet gets punished if it tries to bring that money to invest here.

  

“The greatest tool Communism has in our toolbox is the progressive income tax.”

 Karl Marx

[Bigun]

That's right. the operational overhead is ridiculous.
Build cars, dammit. and build em good.

You bet your @$$ it does!   The costs of all those tax lawyers and accountants add up and every damned bit of it finds its way into the price of everything that gets made in this country.

[Fishrrman]

Hoodat wrote:
"Every American should hope that Trump stops spending $2 trillion every year that we don't have."

Who writes the budget?
Who passes it?

[Hoodat]

Hoodat wrote:
"Every American should hope that Trump stops spending $2 trillion every year that we don't have."

Who writes the budget?
Who passes it?

Who actually spends it?  Food stamp rolls have decreased dramatically, yet the 'savings' are still getting spent.  Enough already.  The buck has to stop here.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

No, the solution is to get government out of the way, and the unions out of the way, and the merchant's groups out of the way AND COMPETE.

If you want Chevys to beat Toyotas, Chevy has to build a better car at a better price.

That is only one part of the solution, as it only tackles one side.

It does not tackle the disparity that those same cars manufactured in the US must have a 25% tariff placed on them to be sold in China, whereas any car manufactured in China has only a 2 1/2% tariff imposed by the US.

How does your 'get the government out of the way' solve the problem with the US car manufacturing being able to sell more cars in China when they are higher than what we charge for Chinese autos?  No matter how good the cars the US makes, how well can you compete with that?

[IsailedawayfromFR]

The most asinine tax rule of all is to tax money entering this country.  GM makes billions of dollars oversees, yet gets punished if it tries to bring that money to invest here.

If GM actually invested it here I would agree, but does not have to necessarily do that with the money it repatriates.

[roamer_1]

That is only one part of the solution, as it only tackles one side.

It does not tackle the disparity that those same cars manufactured in the US must have a 25% tariff placed on them to be sold in China, whereas any car manufactured in China has only a 2 1/2% tariff imposed by the US.

How does your 'get the government out of the way' solve the problem with the US car manufacturing being able to sell more cars in China when they are higher than what we charge for Chinese autos?  No matter how good the cars the US makes, how well can you compete with that?

I don't care about China.
I care about the US.
Worry about the work and the money will come.

The Japs are a better example, automotive-wise - That they are kicking our ass in our own markets is our fault, not theirs.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I don't care about China.
I care about the US.
Worry about the work and the money will come.

The Japs are a better example, automotive-wise - That they are kicking our ass in our own markets is our fault, not theirs.

Of course we care about America.  That is what this is all about.  Why do you think differently? 

In caring for our country, we must fight the cheap goods being dumped onto Americans due to an unfair advantage by tariff manipulation.

One fights for America by clearing the floor for a fair fight, not by allowing continued dumping to occur.

[roamer_1]

Of course we care about America.  That is what this is all about.  Why do you think differently? 

Because outright protectionism is unamerican.

In caring for our country, we must fight the cheap goods being dumped onto Americans due to an unfair advantage by tariff manipulation.

No, we need to compete with it. If our population wants crappy Chinese products, there is no reason why we can't make crappy American products. No reason other than fat union cats, multiple levels of corporate bureaucracy, and miles and miles of government regulation and permitting, and epa standards, and etc.

Before you look to protectionism, perhaps look to trimming the fat and actually competing for business.

One fights for America by clearing the floor for a fair fight, not by allowing continued dumping to occur.

No, one clears the floor by getting trim and fit and ready to do battle. Try a little exercise and lose your fat ass... Pump a little iron... Don't cry about being out of breath and the other guy fighting dirty. The other guy always fights dirty.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Hoodat wrote:
"Every American should hope that Trump stops spending $2 trillion every year that we don't have."

Who writes the budget?
Who passes it?

 

[Right_in_Virginia]

FTA

The dismal science of economics has much to say about economic relations between China and the United States. But the worst possible legacy of this trade conflict would not necessarily be dismal for reasons familiar to places such as the Council of Economic Advisers. It would be dismal because it makes the world safer for China’s authoritarianism and more dangerous for elected leaders who dare to challenge its malign behavior.

[skeeter]

Of course we care about America.  That is what this is all about.  Why do you think differently? 

In caring for our country, we must fight the cheap goods being dumped onto Americans due to an unfair advantage by tariff manipulation.

One fights for America by clearing the floor for a fair fight, not by allowing continued dumping to occur.

Only a fool would persist in a relationship where one side, in breaking all the rules of fair trade, was a tyrant using the money ill gained to eventually militarily overwhelm them.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Only a fool would persist in a relationship where one side, in breaking all the rules of fair trade, was a tyrant using the money ill gained to eventually militarily overwhelm them.

Yep, cannot understand why anyone would support someone who wishes to destroy us.

DT understands this very well.