BREAKING NEWS: Alabama Governor Signs Near-Total Abortion Ban

[txradioguy]

Just to set the record straight @Jazzhead does not support infanticide or assault women's rights.

Your record adjustment needs an adjustment of it's own.

[txradioguy]

You sure are selective about how this liberty thing gets applied.

He's only for "liberty" if it has a positive outcome for his Liberal pet issues.

[Jazzhead]

Then they'll vote their representatives out and change the law. Isn't that the way things are supposed to work?

No.  If a right is protected under the Federal Constitution,  it can reasonably regulated by a state, but not denied.   See, e.g., Heller.   

[txradioguy]

No.  If a right is protected under the Federal Constitution,

Really?  Where in the Bill of Rights or the other Amendments to the Constitution is it located? 

it can reasonably regulated by a state, but not denied.   See, e.g., Heller.

Heller is a 2nd Amendment issue...it's an enumerated right in the Constitution.

Abortion is not.

[Jazzhead]

I have faith that the people of Alabama voted for the law makers they wanted, and the law makers are hearing their voters say they want this.  As is there right as a state under the Constitution.

From my mid-west WI perspective a GOP that abandons the right to life is less attractive for my vote.

@Once-Ler

The GOP is not going to abandon its stance as the pro-life party, nor should it.   Recent state law restrictions on abortion after 20 - 25 weeks are reasonable and likely Constitutional.    But the Alabama bill is a whole 'nother matter.   It represents that point where pro-life extremism runs up against the liberty of Americans to order their own lives.   It will no doubt be struck down.  But the far greater consequence is that it risks turning the sensible center against the GOP.   

[Jazzhead]

 


Heller is a 2nd Amendment issue...it's an enumerated right in the Constitution.

Abortion is not.

Wrong.   The individual RKBA - that is, outside the obsolete context of a militia - exists as a Constitutional right on the same basis as the choice right - by reason of a SCOTUS decision interpreting the Constitution's purpose and protections with respect to INDIVIDUAL liberty.   

[Hoodat]

But Alabama (and the several other states that have passed "heartbeat" bills)  have countered with extreme legislation of their own,  which are blatantly unconstitutional under current law

@Jazzhead

Exactly what part of the Constitution do these statutes violate?  Please be specific.

Hopefully the statements by Reed and Robertson will knock some sense into the GOP.

In other news, Reed and Ribertson have reprimanded Jesus of Nazareth for using harsh language against the politicians in 1st century Judea.

[Night Hides Not]

@Jazzhead

Exactly what part of the Constitution do these statutes violate?  Please be specific.


In other news, Reed and Ribertson have reprimanded Jesus of Nazareth for using harsh language against the politicians in 1st century Judea.

Reed and Robertson are dues paying members of the Sanhedrin.

[txradioguy]

Wrong.   The individual RKBA - that is, outside the obsolete context of a militia - exists as a Constitutional right on the same basis as the choice right - by reason of a SCOTUS decision interpreting the Constitution's purpose and protections with respect to INDIVIDUAL liberty.   

No it's not.  You're just spewing leftist talking points on RKBA.

There is no interpretation needed on "shall not infringe".  None...zip...zero...nada.

There is no "right" to abortion anywhere in the Constitution.  I'm still waiting for you to show us which Amendment it falls under.

That interpretation thing you keep falling back on instead of taking the Constitution as it was written...leads to all kinds of things the Framers never dreamed of happening.

It's not a living document as you Liberals like to believe it is.

RKBA...protected by the 2nd Amendment.  Period.

"Right" of abortion...made up out of whole cloth by two of Harry Blackmun's clerks.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Just to set the record straight @Jazzhead is not spewing leftist talking points on RKBA.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

@Once-Ler

The GOP is not going to abandon its stance as the pro-life party, nor should it.   Recent state law restrictions on abortion after 20 - 25 weeks are reasonable and likely Constitutional.    But the Alabama bill is a whole 'nother matter.   It represents that point where pro-life extremism runs up against the liberty of Americans to order their own lives.   It will no doubt be struck down.  But the far greater consequence is that it risks turning the sensible center against the GOP.   

@Jazzhead
I pray it doesn't get overturned and I see this as a state's-right issue, that does not impede my "right" to an abortion in WI.

[Hoodat]

Wrong.   The individual RKBA - that is, outside the obsolete context of a militia - exists as a Constitutional right on the same basis as the choice right - by reason of a SCOTUS decision interpreting the Constitution's purpose and protections with respect to INDIVIDUAL liberty.   

Good grief, stop lying already.  Heller specifically and directly refetences Amendment II as the basis for the ruling.  This has been pointed out to you again and again, but you continue to peddle lies.

[Jazzhead]

No it's not.  You're just spewing leftist talking points on RKBA.

There is no interpretation needed on "shall not infringe".  None...zip...zero...nada.

There is no "right" to abortion anywhere in the Constitution.  I'm still waiting for you to show us which Amendment it falls under.

That interpretation thing you keep falling back on instead of taking the Constitution as it was written...leads to all kinds of things the Framers never dreamed of happening.

It's not a living document as you Liberals like to believe it is.

RKBA...protected by the 2nd Amendment.  Period.

"Right" of abortion...made up out of whole cloth by two of Harry Blackmun's clerks.

Believe the mythology you want.   But the reality is that the left will do the same thing to your gun right as the State of Alabama seeks to do to the choice right.   It will pass laws taking your individual RKBA away to try to force the SCOTUS to overturn Heller.   The 2A by its plain language addresses the right of the People with respect to the citizen militia.   It is a collective right, not an individual right.   The Heller decision interpreted the Constitution to find an individual RKBA outside the context of the militia.  It was the correct decision, for the same reason the choice right is Constitutionally protected -  we all have inalienable rights as individuals for which the government was instituted to protect.   You have the inalienable right to defend your home,  and a woman has the inalienable right - rooted in the individual rights of privacy and self-determination - to decide whether to give birth. 

The tactics you advocate to ban abortion will be used by the left to ban your guns.   

[Jazzhead]

Good grief, stop lying already.  Heller specifically and directly refetences Amendment II as the basis for the ruling.  This has been pointed out to you again and again, but you continue to peddle lies.

Bullshit.   The individual RKBA exists only so long as the Heller opinion exists.   The left is gunning for it,  and will use the same tactics you advocate to overturn the choice right.   

[libertybele]

Good grief, stop lying already.  Heller specifically and directly refetences Amendment II as the basis for the ruling.  This has been pointed out to you again and again, but you continue to peddle lies.

Exactly!!!  It doesn't matter how many times facts are put in front of him; he refuses to acknowledge.  It's just not on abortion, it's on other issues as well.

@Jazzhead you are certainly entitled to your opinion and your liberal stance.  Quite frankly, I'm not into blatant disregard for life and last time I checked, murder was against the law.  I love this country and am willing to fight for its sovereignty, and I hold the 2nd amendment very dear and that right shall not be infringed, period!

I am sickened by the moral decay in this country and this is one of those instances.  Personally, I am done discussing this issue with you.  Peace.

[Jazzhead]

Exactly!!!  It doesn't matter how many times facts are put in front of him; he refuses to acknowledge.  It's just not on abortion, it's on other issues as well.

@Jazzhead you are certainly entitled to your opinion and your liberal stance.  Quite frankly, I'm not into blatant disregard for life and last time I checked, murder was against the law.  I love this country and am willing to fight for its sovereignty, and I hold the 2nd amendment very dear and that right shall not be infringed, period!

I am sickened by the moral decay in this country and this is one of those instances.  Personally, I am done discussing this issue with you.  Peace.

@libertybele

Look, this 2A dispute on this thread is a sideshow.   We'll see how secure the individual RKBA is once the SCOTUS decides to hear a case in the wake of Heller.   I doubt they want to.   Indeed, they touch the third rail of the 2A only a couple times each century.   

This thread is about the Alabama abortion law.   You say you care about this nation's sovereignty,  and I know the border crisis is something you care deeply about.   With good reason.

Well, it's all interrelated.    The only way to address the border crisis is to get funding for the wall,  change the rules concerning legal immigration and asylum,  and increase the number of judges so border-crossers can be dealt with swiftly rather than released into the country.

All of that requires the cooperation of Congress,  and the Dems oppose every last bit of it.   Doesn't it occur to you that the GOP needs to take back the Congress next year? 

Yet,  the fetus-obsessed base is pushing deliberate measures to roll back the Constitutional rights of women.     This extremism threatens to overshadow even the Dems' moves to legislate third-trimester infanticide.   This  extremism threatens to galvanize the sensible center to vote against Republicans.   And at stake is not the lives of the unborn (the SCOTUS will not approve the Alabama law),  but conservatives' ability to regain power and deal with the real crises that concern us.  Such as:

-  Immigration reform and border security
-  Entitlement reform and the exploding deficit
-  Sustaining economic growth and resisting the folly of "green" politics.   

It is all at stake - every last bit of it - as the Dems prepare for an historic power grab.   Let 'em in and the Court gets packed and the Electoral College abolished.  Will conservatives ever return to power again?

You say I espouse a "liberal stance".   Nothing could be further from the truth.   I see the handwriting on the wall, and it scares the shit out of me:  socialism, race hatred and the disintegration of the nation's values.   All the things the Dems want, and that we oppose.

And all to be sacrificed on the altar of extremists obsessed with saving fetuses through coercion rather than persuasion.   

[txradioguy]

Believe the mythology you want.

The only mythology being peddled here is that there is a Constitutional "right" to abortion.


   

But the reality is that the left will do the same thing to your gun right as the State of Alabama seeks to do to the choice right.   It will pass laws taking your individual RKBA away to try to force the SCOTUS to overturn Heller.

They can try...but they won't succeed.  See because the difference is that the right to keep and bear arms is actually written into the Constitution in the form of the Second Amendment. 

Abortion...no such amendment in there.

The 2A by its plain language addresses the right of the People with respect to the citizen militia.

So when this was written in 1789 who was the militia?

And if you want to play by the original text of the Constitution and specifically the bill of rights...there's a bunch of stuff under the 1st...the 4th...hell lets even look to the favorite amendment of you Lefty's the 14th...that doesn't apply today and should only apply to how things were when the Amendment was written.

Lets take all the Amendments to the Constitution back to their "original meaning" at the time they were written since you want to play that way with the 2nd.

It is a collective right, not an individual right.

 

Bullsh*t.  That's a favorite rejoinder buy you lefties...but those are individual rights given to each citizen of the U.S.  And as such can not be taken away from the individual.

The Heller decision interpreted the Constitution to find an individual RKBA outside the context of the militia.

 

Again..who exactly is defined as "the militia"?  You should really start thinking for yourself and stop relying on threadbare anti-gun talking points. 

You'll save yourself some embarrassment.

It was the correct decision, for the same reason the choice right is Constitutionally protected -

Why are you such a coward and scared to use the term "abortion"?  That "choice" at the end of the day...is a choice to murder a human life.


And again you haven't shown me where in the Constitution the "right" to abortion on demand is.

we all have inalienable rights as individuals for which the government was instituted to protect.

   

And that right extends to unborn babies in the womb.

You have the inalienable right to defend your home,

 

Thank you for contradicting yourself about the 2nd Amendment and affirming what many of us here have been telling you for a couple years now.

and a woman has the inalienable right - rooted in the individual rights of privacy and self-determination - to decide whether to give birth.

Still waiting for you to show me the Amendment where this is the case.

Life is a right. In fact, unlike abortion, which is not a right, life is specified directly in the Declaration of Independence, as well as the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments, and remains the most fundamental right of all.

Human life in the womb is still human life

The tactics you advocate to ban abortion will be used by the left to ban your guns.   

Sorry counselor...they won't.  Because as you just affirmed...I have the "inalienable right" to defend my home. That is guarenteed by the Constitution.

[txradioguy]

Just to set the record straight @Jazzhead is not spewing leftist talking points on RKBA.

Again...your version of the "record" is warped.

[GrouchoTex]

Full disclosure.

I have an opinion based on personal experience.
I was born at 6 months, and brought some medical challenges along with me.
Under developed lungs and a hip joint that didn't fully form.
I learned to walk at 2-1/2 years old.

People can argue that this bill goes too far.
I don't know about that.

I can say that the New York and Virginia bills go too far.
I can say that with 100% certainty.

I was born pre-Roe v Wade, 57 years ago.
My parents had 2 children, ages 12 and 14, quite set in their family.
I was "unexpected".

I never asked if it had been legal, would I have been terminated?
They never told me, either.

They are long gone now, and I cannot ask them the question, not that I would want to anyway.

If bills like this are what is needed to get everybody in a room, reach a consensus, and stop the crazy abortion up to birth crowd, so be it.

I think people around the USA would agree that the New York and Virginia bills are more extreme than the Alabama bill.
I believe that.
Of course, it will not be portrayed this way, but people, by and large are not, and have never been, in favor of wholesale abortion on demand, and those other 2 bills do that.

[txradioguy]

Full disclosure.

I have an opinion based on personal experience.
I was born at 6 months, and brought some medical challenges along with me.
Under developed lungs and a hip joint that didn't fully form.
I learned to walk at 2-1/2 years old.

People can argue that this bill goes too far.
I don't know about that.

I can say that the New York and Virginia bills go too far.
I can say that with 100% certainty.

I was born pre-Roe v Wade, 57 years ago.
My parents had 2 children, ages 12 and 14, quite set in their family.
I was "unexpected".

I never asked if it had been legal, would I have been terminated?
They never told me, either.

They are long gone now, and I cannot ask them the question, not that I would want to anyway.

If bills like this are what is needed to get everybody in a room, reach a consensus, and stop the crazy abortion up to birth crowd, so be it.

I think people around the USA would agree that the New York and Virginia bills are more extreme than the Alabama bill.
I believe that.
Of course, it will not be portrayed this way, but people, by and large are not, and have never been, in favor of wholesale abortion on demand, and those other 2 bills do that.

@GrouchoTex well said my friend. 

[musiclady]

This is awesome!  Inspiring, encouraging, life saving goodness.

Amen!!

[Hoodat]

Bullshit.   The individual RKBA exists only so long as the Heller opinion exists.

Bullshit?  Here is the very first sentence of the SCOTUS opinion, again:

We consider whether a District of Columbia prohibition on the possession of usable handguns in the home violates the Second Amendment to the Constitution.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

Heller exists because of the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms - not vice versa.


Nunn v. State of Georgia, 1846 overturned a state ban on firearms based on Amendment II to the Constitution of the United States, not Heller.

Aldridge v. Commonwealth of Virginia, 1824 acknowledged that the right to keep and bear arms was an individual right transferable from state to state without regard to militia.

State of Louisiana v. Chandler, 1850 held that citizens had the right to open carry - a right guaranteed by the Constitution for a manly and noble defense of themselves (individual) as well as country.

Aymette v. State of Tennessee, 1840 addressed the right to keep and bear arms as an individual right sans militia, although they got it wrong about the protection being from Congress only (similar to Amendment I).

United States v. Cruikshank, 1876 addressed the right to keep and bear arms specifically as an individual right - not something conducive to a militia.

Presser v. Illinois, 1886 also addressed the right as an individual right separate from a well-regulated militia.

US v. Miller, 1939 addressed only the type of weapon with zero regard to militia membership.

All of these are addressed in the Heller decision which you claim to have read.

[Hoodat]

@libertybele

Look, this 2A dispute on this thread is a sideshow.   

It is a sideshow that YOU initiated, just as you have done on every other thread on this topic.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,361839.msg1972615.html#msg1972615

[libertybele]

Full disclosure.

I have an opinion based on personal experience.
I was born at 6 months, and brought some medical challenges along with me.
Under developed lungs and a hip joint that didn't fully form.
I learned to walk at 2-1/2 years old.

People can argue that this bill goes too far.
I don't know about that.

I can say that the New York and Virginia bills go too far.
I can say that with 100% certainty.

I was born pre-Roe v Wade, 57 years ago.
My parents had 2 children, ages 12 and 14, quite set in their family.
I was "unexpected".

I never asked if it had been legal, would I have been terminated?
They never told me, either.

They are long gone now, and I cannot ask them the question, not that I would want to anyway.

If bills like this are what is needed to get everybody in a room, reach a consensus, and stop the crazy abortion up to birth crowd, so be it.

I think people around the USA would agree that the New York and Virginia bills are more extreme than the Alabama bill.
I believe that.
Of course, it will not be portrayed this way, but people, by and large are not, and have never been, in favor of wholesale abortion on demand, and those other 2 bills do that.

Certainly glad your parents chose life.

My story, and I've posted it before (in short):  My grandson was born at est. 24 1/2 weeks; my daughter was told that his chances of survival was slim and was given meds to help accelerate the growth of the lungs and brain which would bring gestation to about appx. 25-251/2.  After a long labor he was born only weighing 1 lb. 11 oz. and 14 inches long!  He IS a miracle baby.  We watched his progression outside of the womb and he never regressed; definitely some scares along the way...

I will never, ever forget, my daughter calling me late at night, to tell me that he was strong enough for her to finally hold him for the very first time, and in the background in my den the song Hallelujah was playing.  I cried and cried happy tears as I am crying now.  It is something that as a mother and a grandmother you just never forget. BTW Happy Mother's Day to all!!!

All I can say is Hallelujah that prayers were answered and if anyone ever has any doubt whatsoever that the heartbeat bill is too stringent or that the AL bill goes too far, please sit down and talk to a grandparent or parent of a baby that survived against all odds.

We will soon be celebrating his 9th birthday and in a couple of months we will also celebrate his 9th homecoming birthday (yes we celebrate twice).  Thanks all for letting me tell my story again.

This will always be my absolute favorite song and my favorite rendition of that song ....


www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXxqWkJIUnQ

[txradioguy]

It is a sideshow that YOU initiated, just as you have done on every other thread on this topic.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,361839.msg1972615.html#msg1972615

Funny how he left out the part he started the side show.