New Zealand Mosque Shooting (Live Updates)

[Smokin Joe]

Not only that, but they are also going after Freedom of Speech as well.  Because as soon as the Second Amendment goes bye-bye, the First won't be far behind.

As soon as the Second Amendment is done away with, ALL the rest go.

It is what it was intended to be, the ultimate safeguard of our rights.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Forget about Shakespeare or the Sistine Chapel, unless you live like these guys you are a White Supremacy guy. And even they are not safe. They might be White Supremacist in disguise...? You never know...

WTF is this sh1t?

[QueenCatofAragon]

Just when I thought you’d reached your pinnacle with garbage posts, you come up with this gem. Congrats.

@edpc

I’m telling you, @LegalAmerican would love TOS.  I briefly checked one of their threads, and the “FAKE NEWS NEVER HAPPENED” and “who cares, kill em all” posts were about neck and neck.

[QueenCatofAragon]

Same thing.  Q runs rampant there, even though nothing he (?) predicted has ever come to pass, that I know of.  I am not a follower of Qanon.

@Cyber Liberty

I sometimes check out Twitter Qanon for the entertainment value.  Nothing you can imagine is too nuts for them to latch onto.  The latest is some kind of secret significance involving the Thundercats cartoon from the 80s and the ceremonial swords used by the USAF.  They tweet Trump about it.

It’s also sad, though.  Many of them have alienated their family and friends, but they look forward to the day when the Plan will come to fruition and they’ll be vindicated.

[edpc]

I’m telling you, @LegalAmerican would love TOS.  I briefly checked one of their threads, and the “FAKE NEWS NEVER HAPPENED” and “who cares, kill em all” posts were about neck and neck.

What a fantastic group of critical thinkers.

[edpc]

These two deserve each other. Dumb comments get egg to the head, stupid stunt gets shot to the chops.

[TomSea]

These two deserve each other. Dumb comments get egg to the head, stupid stunt gets shot to the chops.

The above, Senator Anning:



I saw some report saying many of these Muslims had been in New Zealand for a very long time. I'm not sure what that entails. One might remember, a lot of those persons could have come from places where Islam has been established for centuries, meaning the Indian subcontinent.  None of them appeared to be from Indonesia from what I saw. Again, not that awfully far from AUS/NZ.

Above image from Dr. Zuhdi Jasser on twitter.

Dr. Jasser (Syrian descent):

M. Zuhdi Jasser زهدي جاسر
‏Verified account @DrZuhdiJasser
12h12 hours ago

I have since 9/11 uniformly condemned Muslim spox who try to shift blame to the victims after Islamist inspired terror. That is corrupt, inhuman and radicalizes their constituencies.

This revolting supremacism from a Senator @fraser_anning here in #Oz is the same radicalism.

https://twitter.com/DrZuhdiJasser/status/1106731322754641926

Dr. Jasser is pretty fair, I"m not sure though, at the same time, if Senator Anning's statement is that bad  (okay, 2nd to the last paragraph is probably inappropriate and wrong to say)... if folks have not read it, it is above.  Maybe I'm wrong, I might have written a more sensitive message. I would not think it is that hateful.  Dr. Jasser happened to be in Australia during this time.  Jasser has often been on Fox News and Fox business.

Other news:

Australia bans Milo Yiannopoulos after comments on New Zealand mosque attacks
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/434361-australia-bans-milo-yiannopoulos-after-new-zealand-mosque-attacks

I'm not sure if Milo's words from the article itself, are inappropriate. It does sound like the Aus. govt. had to spend a lot on security on one of Milo's prior visits.

[TomSea]

WTF is this sh1t?

OK, I want to be proper in all of this. I don't think this is out of line.  If something bothers one, report it. Looks like humor to me. Again, I could be wrong.

[QueenCatofAragon]

What a fantastic group of critical thinkers.

You can feel your brain cells popping and sizzling as you read.

[jmyrlefuller]

Like double 4-chan?

Splinter group who thought 4chan was too restrictive for them.

If you don't want people complaining that your posts are garbage, " @LegalAmerican ," don't post stuff from the Internet's worst garbage can.

[Sanguine]

Splinter group who thought 4chan was too restrictive for them.

If you don't want people complaining that your posts are garbage, " @LegalAmerican ," don't post stuff from the Internet's worst garbage can.

Ah.  Thanks.

[TomSea]

BNL NEWS
‏ @BreakingNLive

JUST IN: Christchurch, New Zealand terrorist writes in manifesto that he is not a conservative, that he is not a Christian, and that he identifies as an eco-facist. He also adds that he disagrees with Trump on politics.
7:13 AM - 15 Mar 2019

https://twitter.com/BreakingNLive/status/1106558974042824705

[Sanguine]

Oopsie from all the "the killer is a conservative" posters.

[240B]

WTF is this sh1t?

I'm just making fun of the fact that the international media calls everyone White Supremacists. White Liberals think they are safe, but no. If you are White you are a supremacist. Hell, we have Black guys calling other Black guys, Hispanics, everyone, White Supremacists. So what does it take to shake the libel?

I guess you have to be Black African to escape? Nothing else is good enough.

[Applewood]

@TomSea

I saw some report saying many of these Muslims had been in New Zealand for a very long time.

I believe that's true and probably true of a number of countries including parts of the US.  The section of Pittsburgh where the Tree of Life synagogue shootings occurred -- Squirrel Hill -- has for decades been a melting pot for all sorts of immigrants, Muslims included.  The different people got along, or at least co-existed, without any trouble.  Yesterday's local news showed the rabbi from Tree of Life visiting with the iman from a nearby mosque.  When then shootings at Tree of Life occurred, the iman offered his condolences to the rabbi and yesterday, the rabbi reciprocated.  As the rabbi said, this is what they all do.  No one wants this kind of hatred to take hold and spread.

I keep saying the internet and social media in particular are a blessing and a curse, and unfortunately, it seems they are now more of a curse.  Too many people with something wrong in their lives go online, read all the lies and conspiracy theories and they think if they "do something" their lives will be better or the country will be safer, or...who knows?  Outlawing guns is not the answer.  We have to address the mental illness that's really behind these crimes.  Otherwise, these killings will only get worse.

[Smokin Joe]

@TomSea

I believe that's true and probably true of a number of countries including parts of the US.  The section of Pittsburgh where the Tree of Life synagogue shootings occurred -- Squirrel Hill -- has for decades been a melting pot for all sorts of immigrants, Muslims included.  The different people got along, or at least co-existed, without any trouble.  Yesterday's local news showed the rabbi from Tree of Life visiting with the iman from a nearby mosque.  When then shootings at Tree of Life occurred, the iman offered his condolences to the rabbi and yesterday, the rabbi reciprocated.  As the rabbi said, this is what they all do.  No one wants this kind of hatred to take hold and spread.

I keep saying the internet and social media in particular are a blessing and a curse, and unfortunately, it seems they are now more of a curse.  Too many people with something wrong in their lives go online, read all the lies and conspiracy theories and they think if they "do something" their lives will be better or the country will be safer, or...who knows?  Outlawing guns is not the answer.  We have to address the mental illness that's really behind these crimes.  Otherwise, these killings will only get worse.

Well Said!

[XenaLee]

@TomSea

I believe that's true and probably true of a number of countries including parts of the US.  The section of Pittsburgh where the Tree of Life synagogue shootings occurred -- Squirrel Hill -- has for decades been a melting pot for all sorts of immigrants, Muslims included.  The different people got along, or at least co-existed, without any trouble.  Yesterday's local news showed the rabbi from Tree of Life visiting with the iman from a nearby mosque.  When then shootings at Tree of Life occurred, the iman offered his condolences to the rabbi and yesterday, the rabbi reciprocated.  As the rabbi said, this is what they all do.  No one wants this kind of hatred to take hold and spread.

I keep saying the internet and social media in particular are a blessing and a curse, and unfortunately, it seems they are now more of a curse.  Too many people with something wrong in their lives go online, read all the lies and conspiracy theories and they think if they "do something" their lives will be better or the country will be safer, or...who knows?  Outlawing guns is not the answer.  We have to address the mental illness that's really behind these crimes.  Otherwise, these killings will only get worse.

I think we have to address the reality that there are evil people in this world.  People that will act out their evil fantasies.  People that care nothing for human life.   Calling these people "mentally ill" is not going to solve or remedy the situation.  There IS no remedy.  It just 'is'.  And yes, these killings will get worse as time goes on....

until it doesn't.   

[Sanguine]

@TomSea

I believe that's true and probably true of a number of countries including parts of the US.  The section of Pittsburgh where the Tree of Life synagogue shootings occurred -- Squirrel Hill -- has for decades been a melting pot for all sorts of immigrants, Muslims included.  The different people got along, or at least co-existed, without any trouble.  Yesterday's local news showed the rabbi from Tree of Life visiting with the iman from a nearby mosque.  When then shootings at Tree of Life occurred, the iman offered his condolences to the rabbi and yesterday, the rabbi reciprocated.  As the rabbi said, this is what they all do.  No one wants this kind of hatred to take hold and spread.

I keep saying the internet and social media in particular are a blessing and a curse, and unfortunately, it seems they are now more of a curse.  Too many people with something wrong in their lives go online, read all the lies and conspiracy theories and they think if they "do something" their lives will be better or the country will be safer, or...who knows?  Outlawing guns is not the answer.  We have to address the mental illness that's really behind these crimes.  Otherwise, these killings will only get worse.

I don't know if this is the case here or not,  but apparently one of the factors in anti-muslimism is the concentration.  If there are only a few muslim residents, and they are older, somewhat assimilated populations, co-existence is possible.  If they are newer, more islamic, and in greater numbers, co-existence becomes difficult.

[skeeter]

I don't know if this is the case here or not,  but apparently one of the factors in anti-muslimism is the concentration.  If there are only a few muslim residents, and they are older, somewhat assimilated populations, co-existence is possible.  If they are newer, more islamic, and in greater numbers, co-existence becomes difficult.

There's no denying the process a country goes through historically as it becomes increasingly saturated with those of the muslim faith. On the other hand there's how we feel about muslims we know as friends and neighbors - personally its really hard to reconcile in my mind.

[TomSea]

I think we have to address the reality that there are evil people in this world.  People that will act out their evil fantasies.  People that care nothing for human life.   Calling these people "mentally ill" is not going to solve or remedy the situation.  There IS no remedy.  It just 'is'.  And yes, these killings will get worse as time goes on....

until it doesn't.

I thoroughly agree. A lot of the ISIS fighters are recruited over the internet, they are brainwashed. Okay, maybe some of them have a background for it with their religion but still.

Just the same way, there are some nasty racist websites out there.  They may well brainwash, especially youth with propaganda and the like. People are not thinking for themselves.

This guy is a mixed bag in New Zealand, an "eco-fascist" and a few of the other things said about him which I won't go into.

Also interesting, is that it is said, 2 or 3 other persons have been arrested. One supposedly a woman. We have not heard anything about these other people.  FWIW.

Yes, a lot of it is down to brainwashing, that might be the same with the Columbine killers, Kliebold and Harris.

And some of it probably is mental illness, the Sandy Hook killer but I don't think all of these cases are just mental illness.

[Smokin Joe]

There's no denying the process a country goes through historically as it becomes increasingly saturated with those of the muslim faith. On the other hand there's how we feel about muslims we know as friends and neighbors - personally its really hard to reconcile in my mind.

People are inherently tribal. Individuals act differently than groups, and toward individuals act differently than they do toward groups. Being in a 'like' group brings out the tribal mentality with a lot of humans. That's when the trouble starts.

[Smokin Joe]

I thoroughly agree. A lot of the ISIS fighters are recruited over the internet, they are brainwashed. Okay, maybe some of them have a background for it with their religion but still.

Just the same way, there are some nasty racist websites out there.  They may well brainwash, especially youth with propaganda and the like. People are not thinking for themselves.

This guy is a mixed bag in New Zealand, an "eco-fascist" and a few of the other things said about him which I won't go into.

Also interesting, is that it is said, 2 or 3 other persons have been arrested. One supposedly a woman. We have not heard anything about these other people.  FWIW.

Yes, a lot of it is down to brainwashing, that might be the same with the Columbine killers, Kliebold and Harris.

And some of it probably is mental illness, the Sandy Hook killer but I don't think all of these cases are just mental illness.

Kliebold and Harris were on psych meds at one point, although when they quit (which can be a problem, too) isn't clear. I think hate site rhetoric only enhances inclinations toward violent ideations that are present (whether a side effect of medication/withdrawal or not), and the lack of other input causes some sort of fugue state where they go off the deep end and become violent. Likely, that gets plenty of encouragement in those echo chambers.

[edpc]

Yes, a lot of it is down to brainwashing, that might be the same with the Columbine killers, Kliebold and Harris.

And some of it probably is mental illness, the Sandy Hook killer but I don't think all of these cases are just mental illness.

Some people are just broken. I don’t think you can grab just anyone and condition them to commit heinous acts. They’re already talking about changing NZ gun laws, in the aftermath of this shooting. I’d expect some discussion about violence in video games, as well, considering some of what he’s said. I’ve wasted more than a few nights playing FPS games and I never felt compelled to murder anyone. Did they contribute to his actions? Maybe, but he already had fundamental problems.

[skeeter]

People are inherently tribal. Individuals act differently than groups, and toward individuals act differently than they do toward groups. Being in a 'like' group brings out the tribal mentality with a lot of humans. That's when the trouble starts.

The problem comes when we consider how that reality should translate into the immigration policy of a free country.

[Smokin Joe]

The problem comes when we consider how that reality should translate into the immigration policy of a free country.

That reality is that they either join the "American" tribe and become one of us, or they go off on some hyphenated tangent with an Us vs them (them being Americans) mentality. If the latter, they really aren't here to become Americans at all.