Author Topic: UPDATE: CNN Hid Images and Video of Roger Stone’s 72-Year-Old Wife Being Dragged Out of Home Barefoo  (Read 16889 times)

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Offline edpc

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Bingo!

No one, from Mueller to media legal experts, has given a coherent legal justification for starting this investigation. There are no statutes that cover “collusion.” It appears to be a term of political art, rather than of law.


Wrong. It was retroactively justified in September, with this statement: “...the ability of persons located, in whole or in substantial part, outside the United States to interfere in or undermine public confidence in United States elections, including through the unauthorized accessing of election and campaign infrastructure or the covert distribution of propaganda and disinformation, constitutes an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States.”

Care to guess who issued it? Hint: it was part of an emergency declaration. Also, there are laws against collusion. You may know it better as ‘conspiracy.’

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-imposing-certain-sanctions-event-foreign-interference-united-states-election/


Quote
But, once Mueller got himself appointed, the cry “Russian collusion” became his cover, and the investigation itself became the event horizon for any truth regarding how Donald Trump won his election fair and square.


The word ‘collusion’ is never mentioned in the SC mandate. This is what it says...





Quote
Absent a basis for the investigation, as you said, it is a witch-hunt. And with democrats throwing a two year temper tantrum who knows what kind of civil unrest leftist kooks might start.


As previously stated, the president retroactively provided the basis. Want to know who says it’s not a witch hunt, aside from William Barr? Try former Trump lawyer Ty Cobb on for size. Here’s someone who dealt directly with the legal team and respects Mueller.


Former Trump White House lawyer Ty Cobb on Monday said he doesn't think special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into Russian election interference is a witch hunt, breaking with President Trump.

"I don't think it's a witch hunt," Cobb said during a political conference hosted Monday by CNN.


https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/412612-former-trump-lawyer-mueller-probe-is-not-a-witch-hunt


Sorry...
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 03:47:20 pm by edpc »
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline 240B

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OK troops. We're going in to arrest Roger Stone, an extremely dangerous man. I'm going to need every armed agent we have. I've also called in the National Guard for backup support. Prepare for a real fight, a fire fight! Bring the grenades, bazookas, and any other heavy ordinance you can muster.

Roger Stone yells, "Come and get me coppers!! Say hello to my little friend!!"


You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
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Offline truth_seeker

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You just enunciated perfectly the "Guilty until proved innocent" line of reasoning.

Such it is, in the frenzied minds of deranged #nevertrumpers, media and democrats.


Roger is guilty until found innocent, and his 72 year old hearing impaired wife is fair game too.

Republicans generally admire and laugh about their own. Donald Segretti. Lee Atwater. Roger Stone.

On my side.

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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I suppose mentioning the fact the original Special Counsel mandate is irrelevant is pointless.  It was superseded by a secret memo issued by Rosenswine after Mueller was appointed SC.  Because of this, we really don't know what Mueller's mandate is...it's classified.  That's why T.S. Ellis had to demand the memo, and then ruled against Manafort based on it.  This is the true meaning of the Ellis findings.

That's because it's a secret, not for our eyes.  As far as the public is concerned, it's easy to see why people think he has no control at all.
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Offline edpc

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I suppose mentioning the fact the original Special Counsel mandate is irrelevant is pointless.  It was superseded by a secret memo issued by Rosenswine after Mueller was appointed SC.  Because of this, we really don't know what Mueller's mandate is...it's classified.  That's why T.S. Ellis had to demand the memo, and then ruled against Manafort based on it.  This is the true meaning of the Ellis findings.

That's because it's a secret, not for our eyes.  As far as the public is concerned, it's easy to see why people think he has no control at all.


Except you were making it sound more sinister than it actually is. There was no expansion. Redacted portions are specific case related allegations, not broadened authority. The second paragraph makes that clear. Once the judge saw it, the ruling was easy and he did so in favor of the prosecution.

There was no rebuke about changing the rules in the middle of the game, because none was required. The memo was called a CYA by critics. It was, in a sense, because they wanted a trail demonstrating how the bank fraud and money laundering allegations reached back to Manafort’s contacts in Ukraine, who were connected to Russia. Ellis ultimately agreed, after seeing the classified sections.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4429623-Rosenstein-Aug-2-2017-Memo-on-Mueller-Authority.html
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 06:11:38 pm by edpc »
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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There's CYA going on, no doubt in my mind...

And I don't generally believe gummint people who tell me to relax, don't worry!  Yes, it's a secret but it's to protect me. 
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline edpc

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There's CYA going on, no doubt in my mind...

And I don't generally believe gummint people who tell me to relax, don't worry!  Yes, it's a secret but it's to protect me.


It wasn’t to protect you – it was to protect people who were subjects of the active investigation from finding out about it.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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It wasn’t to protect you – it was to protect people who were subjects of the active investigation from finding out about it.

And I believe them every time they tell me "it's for National Security." 

 ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep****
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline edpc

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And I believe them every time they tell me "it's for National Security."



I misstated what I previously said. It should have said to prevent people who were subject of investigations from finding out about it.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Smokin Joe

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@Smokin Joe @Bigun


This is so fallacious and embarrassing. There’s a huge difference between direct associates or employees and people in the general public with whom you may have incidental contact. You both know it. Also, whataboutism is not a defense for another person’s actions. If you want to know where the Clinton swat team is, ask Trump why he considered them to be ‘good people who had suffered enough,’ after the election.
Then tell me how this dog and pony show (New, improved, with GUNS!) is justified.

Andh how Hillary hasn't been the 'guest of Honor' at one of these?

Obstruction?
Destroying evidence?
egregious violations of the law?

You'd think they were running an overstock special on that stuff at the CLinton Camp.

You might not think whataboutism applies, so how about Equal Protection under the law?

And I'd wager form the guys who sweep the floor right to the top, if you dig hard enough, with a powerful enough microscope, You'd find prosecutable dirt on anyone--and if you put them in the hot seat over a few days or just hours and ask them the same questions under oath, sooner or later they will say something that will put them up on charges.

As for Mueller, he and Comey are old hands when it comes to witch hunts, and they don't let go of whoever is the person they have decided to convict, no matter what the evidence says. http://thefederalist.com/2018/02/08/robert-mueller-botching-investigations-since-anthrax-attacks/ https://www.genengnews.com/news/comey-mueller-and-anthrax/

Do I honestly believe that there would be suppression of Brady Material, despite the law? Yep.

So, frankly, I'm seeing an absence of pursuit or prosecution of egregious and admitted crimes, including writing the report exonerating Clinton when the investigation was still in progress...

And dogged pursuit of any hair out of place with other, politically targeted people. The problem is that there appears to be partisan bias in those results. 
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Offline edpc

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And how Hillary hasn't been the 'guest of Honor' at one of these?

Obstruction?
Destroying evidence?
egregious violations of the law?

You'd think they were running an overstock special on that stuff at the Clinton Camp.


Again, you'd have to ask Trump exactly why. If I had to guess, it probably has something to do with his previous relationship with them. Remember how he defended the Access Hollywood audio?

"This was locker room banter, a private conversation that took place many years ago," Trump said in the statement. "Bill Clinton has said far worse to me on the golf course — not even close. I apologize if anyone was offended."

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-statement-audio-bill-clinton-women-2016-10

They likely know a few interesting things about each other. Hillary has been marginalized, after her humiliating loss. The foundation is a shell without their political influence. Trump stands to lose more by going after her and isn't interested in mutually assured destruction.



« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 10:04:53 pm by edpc »
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Victoria33

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And he's supposed to be the straight line from which we measure guilt or innocence.  It's like trying to hang drywall on an unlevel floor and crooked studs.  It takes an almost fanatical belief in Mueller's infallibility to take his side on each and every controversy.   I'm having trouble believing a single thing he says!
@Cyber Liberty

Mueller has stayed silent during his investigation.  Do not believe what others say when they trash him.  Please read his life and you will believe this honorable man.  I could list some of it here, but you need to read it all to know him.  Reply to me after your reading. :patriot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mueller

Offline Cyber Liberty

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@Cyber Liberty

Mueller has stayed silent during his investigation.  Do not believe what others say when they trash him.  Please read his life and you will believe this honorable man.  I could list some of it here, but you need to read it all to know him.  Reply to me after your reading. :patriot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mueller

I read it.  I don't believe all the bad stuff I hear about people, nor all the good stuff.  I'm wishy-washy.   :shrug:
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 10:24:27 pm by Cyber Liberty »
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Wingnut

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@Cyber Liberty

Mueller has stayed silent during his investigation.  Do not believe what others say when they trash him.  Please read his life and you will believe this honorable man.  I could list some of it here, but you need to read it all to know him.  Reply to me after your reading. :patriot:



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Offline Victoria33

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Roger Stone was charged with obstruction, witness tampering and making false statements.  For which of those charges would he have documents/evidence laying around the house?  Given that there was no warrant for her arrest, why could an officer not be stationed with her somewhere inside the house while they executed whatever search warrants they presumably had?
@Polly Ticks

Stone said it was 6 am in the morning.  He said they knocked on the door, did not break down the door as others have said.  He said he was taken to the street and held until the house was searched.  He said his wife was "brought out", not "dragged out" as others have said.  The two of them waited until the search was done.

Law officers do not leave people in a house when they are searching - officers get killed sometimes if someone/others are in the house. 

People under stress who have access to a weapon, even at 72 yrs. old as the wife was, can kill, just pull on the trigger.  So could Stone have killed had he known they were coming.  This happened in Florida, not in the northern cold, so they were not freezing outside.  Only Stone and his wife knew, if there was a weapon in the house.  Also, no one knew what each one would do, so caution was used and always is when officers go to a home.

It was said today, Mueller now has several years of documents, emails, phone calls, computer information that Stone had.  Stone has been a buddy of Trump for 40 years, just as Manafort has - they were three buddies together.

Offline Frank Cannon

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@Polly Ticks

It was said today, Mueller now has several years of documents, emails, phone calls, computer information that Stone had.  Stone has been a buddy of Trump for 40 years, just as Manafort has - they were three buddies together.

Yeah, and Stupid Bobby Mueller is close friends with James Comey who is staring down the barrel at federal jail time for being corrupt and a liar. What's your point other than to circle the wagons around degenerate perverts and Establishment hacks like Lying Comey and Stupid Bobby Mueller. 

Offline 240B

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@Polly Ticks

Stone said it was 6 am in the morning.  He said they knocked on the door, did not break down the door as others have said.  He said he was taken to the street and held until the house was searched.  He said his wife was "brought out", not "dragged out" as others have said.  The two of them waited until the search was done.

Law officers do not leave people in a house when they are searching - officers get killed sometimes if someone/others are in the house. 

People under stress who have access to a weapon, even at 72 yrs. old as the wife was, can kill, just pull on the trigger.  So could Stone have killed had he known they were coming.  This happened in Florida, not in the northern cold, so they were not freezing outside.  Only Stone and his wife knew, if there was a weapon in the house.  Also, no one knew what each one would do, so caution was used and always is when officers go to a home.

It was said today, Mueller now has several years of documents, emails, phone calls, computer information that Stone had.  Stone has been a buddy of Trump for 40 years, just as Manafort has - they were three buddies together.
OK. For the sake of argument let's believe what you are saying is true. So this very nice and very kind little 'visit' required 39 armed Federal Agents to accomplish?
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists

Offline 240B

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@Cyber Liberty

Mueller has stayed silent during his investigation.  Do not believe what others say when they trash him.  Please read his life and you will believe this honorable man.  I could list some of it here, but you need to read it all to know him.  Reply to me after your reading. :patriot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mueller
Oh yes. Of course! Mueller is a holy angel who is without sin. I get it. LOL
Mueller is paid attack dog on the payroll of Soros and the DNC. What the hell have you been smoking tonight?
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists

Offline Frank Cannon

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Oh yes. Of course! Mueller is a holy angel who is without sin. I get it. LOL
Mueller is paid attack dog on the payroll of Soros and the DNC. What the hell have you been smoking tonight?

The poster apparently gets cheap thrills when Stupid Bobby throws hollow indictments around.....either that or the poster is Stupid Bobby's mother.

Offline 240B

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The poster apparently gets cheap thrills when Stupid Bobby throws hollow indictments around.....either that or the poster is Stupid Bobby's mother.
@Amb. Frank Cannon
There is certainly something going on there. In her eyes Mueller walks on water and can do no wrong. Even when he does do wrong consistently in a very obvious and flagrant manner. She doesn't respond to me.

Somebody ask her why Saint Mueller decided to drag CNN along with him, if he was just stopping by to have tea and crumpets with the family.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists

Offline Frank Cannon

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Somebody ask her why Saint Mueller decided to drag CNN along with him, if he was just stopping by to have tea and crumpets with the family.

It's my understanding that Stupid Bobby likes to meet up with Don Lemon at a rest stop bathroom stall on the southern part of the 495 Beltway somewhere around Largo. They like to poll each other on how they are doing.

Offline Victoria33

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It's my understanding that Stupid Bobby likes to meet up with Don Lemon at a rest stop bathroom stall on the southern part of the 495 Beltway somewhere around Largo. They like to poll each other on how they are doing.

If you didn't know about sex, you would have no post on this forum.

Offline Victoria33

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OK. For the sake of argument let's believe what you are saying is true. So this very nice and very kind little 'visit' required 39 armed Federal Agents to accomplish?

"On Friday the Mueller Special Counsel sent 20-29 armed FBI operatives..."to Stone's house.

Offline Frank Cannon

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If you didn't know about sex, you would have no post on this forum.

For a so called writer that's a real clunky sentence.

BTW if you would venture outside of these threads involving this filthy pervert Stupid Bobby (where the only appropriate comments are sexual) you would see me cover a whole multitude of things you hate.

Offline Frank Cannon

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"On Friday the Mueller Special Counsel sent 20-29 armed FBI operatives..."to Stone's house.

So which is it? 20, 25, 27 3/4 or 29? Seems like this is something you would have a definitive number on.

Offline 240B

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"On Friday the Mueller Special Counsel sent 20-29 armed FBI operatives..."to Stone's house.
Yep. You're right. I mistyped. But when you are dealing with that many armed agents, what's another dozen here or there? I wonder if CNN was armed. Or if they had armed security with them?

That Roger Stone guy is a dangerous dude! He might have killed them all!
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists

Offline catfish1957

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So which is it? 20, 25, 27 3/4 or 29? Seems like this is something you would have a definitive number on.

It's the government.  They have problems counting to "5".
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Offline Smokin Joe

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It's the government.  They have problems counting to "5".
Unless it's YOUR money at tax time.
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C S Lewis

Offline Wingnut

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"On Friday the Mueller Special Counsel sent 20-29 armed FBI operatives..."to Stone's house.

"What difference – at this point, what difference does it make?"
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Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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@edpc

No one, from Mueller to media legal experts, has given a coherent legal justification for starting this investigation. There are no statutes that cover “collusion.” It appears to be a term of political art, rather than of law.

Wrong. It was retroactively justified in September, with this statement: “...the ability of persons located, in whole or in substantial part, outside the United States to interfere in or undermine public confidence in United States elections, including through the unauthorized accessing of election and campaign infrastructure or the covert distribution of propaganda and disinformation, constitutes an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States.”

Care to guess who issued it? Hint: it was part of an emergency declaration. Also, there are laws against collusion. You may know it better as ‘conspiracy.’

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-imposing-certain-sanctions-event-foreign-interference-united-states-election/



WHY did you bother with this artful dodge (link)?

Because you figured most folk wouldn't bother to read it?

ED: The word "collusion" does not appear in that copious pile of specificity. The word "conspiracy" does.
(I speed read it, then pasted it into a Word Doc and used Find. Nada.) Conspiracy is at 7(B).

Adding this link as verification is BS. YOU can affix Any meaning you like to a word.

And I can go look it up.

Collusion is not the legal equivalent of Conspiracy, . . . . anymore than the GD Federal Reserve is IN Article 1 of the Constitution.

Collusion remains a term of misdirecting theatrics, like calling someone a 'thespian'.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 04:46:24 am by To-Whose-Benefit? »
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Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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@Cyber Liberty

Mueller has stayed silent during his investigation.  Do not believe what others say when they trash him.  Please read his life and you will believe this honorable man.  I could list some of it here, but you need to read it all to know him.  Reply to me after your reading. :patriot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mueller


Wiki can be (and is) edited by anyone who wants to at any time of day. It's only the user community that discovers inaccuracies/lies, later, and corrects them.

General Washington would have had Dear Bobby Hanged by his neck before it ever got this far out of control.
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Vol 3 opens with the rigged murder trial of the villain in a Viking Court under Viking law to set the stage for the hero's own murder trial.

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Offline edpc

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Collusion is not the legal equivalent of Conspiracy, . . . . anymore than the GD Federal Reserve is IN Article 1 of the Constitution


Sure it is. For instance, let's say a group of pharmaceutical companies - a favorite target of your screeds - attempts to engage in price fixing. They'd be investigated and possibly charged. How do the feds define price fixing?


An Antitrust Primer

This primer briefly describes the most common antitrust violations and outlines those conditions and events that indicate anticompetitive collusion.

Introduction

American consumers have the right to expect the benefits of free and open competition — the best goods and services at the lowest prices. Public and private organizations often rely on a competitive bidding process to achieve that end. The competitive process only works, however, when competitors set prices honestly and independently. When competitors collude, prices are inflated and the customer is cheated. Price fixing, bid rigging, and other forms of collusion are illegal and are subject to criminal prosecution by the Antitrust Division of the United States Department of Justice.


-snip-

Price fixing is an agreement among competitors to raise, fix, or otherwise maintain the price at which their goods or services are sold. It is not necessary that the competitors agree to charge exactly the same price, or that every competitor in a given industry join the conspiracy. Price fixing can take many forms, and any agreement that restricts price competition violates the law.

https://www.justice.gov/atr/price-fixing-bid-rigging-and-market-allocation-schemes
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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@edpc

That reply is not German.

The LEGAL equivalent, not a Primer for noobs.

If you're going to indict and prosecute someone for Anything you Have to have the Correct Section and exact, relevant language of the part of the law you claim they violated.

Without it you got bupkiss in Court.

The Law does not deal in Thesaurus/Simile English.

And in the future I'd appreciate it if you'd Cite the Actual Section of the Law with a link (Cornell Law will do) rather than back handed ask us to prove any more negatives.
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Offline edpc

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The Law does not deal in Thesaurus/Simile English.


This is like saying possession of purloined goods isn't illegal, because it's just a prettier word for stolen and isn't in the statute.

Giuliani has been out there, for months, saying there was no campaign collusion and it's not a crime, even if there was. Now that Manafort was convicted and shown to have given campaign data to Kilimnik, he's changed his tune to say...

 â€œI never said there was no collusion between the campaign, or people in the campaign. I said the president of the United States."

Notice he completely abandoned the technical aspect and never said any potential 'collusion' on a campaign member's part is irrelevant to law. He knows that would be roundly and rightfully mocked by people on all sides.

The word 'collusion' may not appear is specific statute, but conspiracy does. In that context, they're completely interchangeable. You cannot engage in a conspiracy without colluding. Investigation of 'collusion' doesn't appear in the SC mandate, anyway. So, your attempt to split hairs on definition and synonyms is kind of senseless.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 08:38:50 am by edpc »
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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This is like saying possession of purloined goods isn't illegal, because it's just a prettier word for stolen and isn't in the statute.

Giuliani has been out there, for months, saying there was no campaign collusion and it's not a crime, even if there was. Now that Manafort was convicted and shown to have given campaign data to Kilimnik, he's changed his tune to say...

 â€œI never said there was no collusion between the campaign, or people in the campaign. I said the president of the United States."

Notice he completely abandoned the technical aspect and never said any potential 'collusion' on a campaign member's part is irrelevant to law. He knows that would be roundly and rightfully mocked by people on all sides.

The word 'collusion' may not appear is specific statute, but conspiracy does. In that context, they're completely interchangeable. You cannot engage in a conspiracy without colluding. Investigation of 'collusion' doesn't appear in the SC mandate, anyway. So, your attempt to split hairs on definition and synonyms is kind of senseless.


Look Ed, I will give you that you are usually very good at backing your positions. You bring data to the topic.

Just not this time.

I don't care a fig about Giuliani. He's another Red Herring.

Stop dancing and stick to the point.

If the Courts had been meant to get involved on 'collusion', Congress would have criminalized 'collusion' rather than 'conspiracy'.

So see my previous response, again.

Come up with the Statute.
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Anybody still think CNN is doing anything other than spewing Democrat propaganda 24/7/365?
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Offline edpc

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Look Ed, I will give you that you are usually very good at backing your positions. You bring data to the topic.

Just not this time.

I don't care a fig about Giuliani. He's another Red Herring.

Stop dancing and stick to the point.

If the Courts had been meant to get involved on 'collusion', Congress would have criminalized 'collusion' rather than 'conspiracy'.

So see my previous response, again.

Come up with the Statute.


I've already demonstrated how collusion and conspiracy can be synonymous, in the example of the justice department excerpts. That's data. You didn't like it, because it's not a statue. Talk about dancing.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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I've already demonstrated how collusion and conspiracy can be synonymous, in the example of the justice department excerpts. That's data. You didn't like it, because it's not a statue. Talk about dancing. /???


Fine. You take your Synonym and I'll take my Statute, to Court, and we'll see who gets How far filing on which of them.
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Offline edpc

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Fine. You take your Synonym and I'll take my Statute, to Court, and we'll see who gets How far filing on which of them.


OK. While you’re at it, get hired as an attorney for someone charged with conspiracy. Argue in open court that your client didn’t conspire, they colluded. See what happens with the verdict.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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OK. While you’re at it, get hired as an attorney for someone charged with conspiracy. Argue in open court that your client didn’t conspire, they colluded. See what happens with the verdict.

Game, set, match.

For someone who digs as deep as you do on post after post, . . . . . and you can't come up with the actual Law.

It's not that tough, if it exists.
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Vol 3 opens with the rigged murder trial of the villain in a Viking Court under Viking law to set the stage for the hero's own murder trial.

http://wulfanson.blogspot.com

Offline edpc

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Game, set, match.


OK - if that makes you feel better.


Quote
For someone who digs as deep as you do on post after post, . . . . . and you can't come up with the actual Law.

It's not that tough, if it exists.


Show me a successful defense against a conspiracy charge, where ‘collusion is not a crime’ was used. It’s not that tough, if it exists. Besides, there has already been a ruling in the case where collusion has been directly related to a conspiracy charge. Incidentally, this judge was a Trump appointee.

This court ruling should drive another nail in the coffin of the argument that collusion is not a crime. It clearly can be, and the crime is conspiracy – even if no other independent criminal violations are identified,” wrote Randall Eliason, a former federal prosecutor and lecturer at George Washington Law School.  “Mueller’s use of that theory in his Russian social media indictment is a textbook example of a 371 conspiracy to defraud the U.S., and that theory has now been validated by the trial judge’s ruling.”

As U.S. District Judge Dabney Friedrich explained in her opinion last week, there are two ways to violate 18 U.S.C. 371. One can either “conspire … to commit any offense against the United States,” which is conspiracy in the traditional sense, or one can conspire “to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose[.]”


https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/bad-news-for-trump-judge-in-russia-case-says-collusion-could-be-enough-for-criminal-charge/

It’s true there is no criminal statute titled “collusion.” But as I’ve noted in several places (here and here, for example) the relevant crime is conspiracy under 18 U.S.C. 371. Collusion refers to an agreement with others to achieve some improper end. In criminal law, we call that a conspiracy – a partnership in crime. And the breadth of the federal conspiracy statute makes it particularly well-suited for cases like Mueller’s probe of Russian interference with the election.

https://sidebarsblog.com/collusion-crime-mueller-judge-decision/
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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"It’s true there is no criminal statute titled “collusion.”

Ed, you have to get your paperwork Filed with the Court before you can argue anything, and the Court doesn't care about synonyms, Period.

The Court wants the actual Law and nothing but.

 :seeya:

« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 12:30:30 pm by To-Whose-Benefit? »
My 'Viking Hunter' High Adventure Alternate History Series is FREE, ALL 3 volumes, at most ebook retailers including Ibooks, Barnes and Noble, Kobo, and more.

In Vol 2 the weapons come out in a winner take all war on two fronts.

Vol 3 opens with the rigged murder trial of the villain in a Viking Court under Viking law to set the stage for the hero's own murder trial.

http://wulfanson.blogspot.com

Offline Cyber Liberty

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"It’s true there is no criminal statute titled “collusion.”

Ed, you have to get your paperwork Filed with the Court before you can argue anything, and the Court doesn't care about synonyms, Period.

The Court wants the actual Law and nothing but.

 :seeya:

Unless it's the Ninth Circus...then the law means whatever is necessary to support leftists.  Or if it's CJ Roberts wanting to fabricate an argument to keep Obastardcare legal by redefining a "penalty" as a "tax."
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I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline edpc

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"It’s true there is no criminal statute titled “collusion.”

Ed, you have to get your paperwork Filed with the Court before you can argue anything, and the Court doesn't care about synonyms, Period.

The Court wants the actual Law and nothing but.

 :seeya:



I noticed you skipped right over the next sentence that began with ‘but....’

Also, if the court wanted ‘actual law’ and nothing else, there wouldn’t be challenges, opinions, or interpretations.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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I noticed you skipped right over the next sentence that began with ‘but....’

Also, if the court wanted ‘actual law’ and nothing else, there wouldn’t be challenges, opinions, or interpretations.

Or ignoring the plain meanings of words of the Statutes/Constitution to mean what they want it to mean.  It's good to remember the vast majority of Judges spent years practicing this as Lawyers.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 01:30:14 pm by Once-Ler »

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Or ignoring the plain meanings of words of the Statutes/Constitution to mean what they want it to mean.  It's good to remember the vast majority of Judges spent years practicing this as Lawyers.

Yeah! You can read all about that The Problem with Lawyers and the Constitution if anyone's interested!
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 09:20:55 am by Bigun »
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As I said 18 pages ago.  FBI employing "stunt justice" recorded for posterity by the propaganda wing of the democrat party,  CNN.

Nothing to see her folks.  Move along.
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There is no way to commit conspiracy without colluding.  By the same token,  not all collusion rises to the level of criminal conspiracy.   
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