Pelosi, Schumer declare victory, hope Trump 'learned his lesson'

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete

And yet, you keep replying (without putting your money where your mouth is, I’ll note)

@Axeslinger

Only because it's quick and easy.  I used to think you would be able to figure that out for yourself,but I am no longer so sure about that.

[Applewood]

I'm at Tampa International Airport.  Newsstand has Tampa Bay Times with headline "Trump Retreats"

Media is positively giddy over this. 

[Restored]

Rather telling they shut down the government and blame Trump for it. That shows that the truth is irrelevant to them. GroupThink is the real truth.

[Axeslinger]

First let me get out of the way for newer members who don't know me. Although he did not get my vote, I am not a Never Trumper. The next president very likely is replacing RBG turning the High Court conservative for the rest of my life is reason alone for me to vote Trump in 2020, despite everything else about him.

As for the Big Beautiful Wall that kept getting 10 feet higher at every campaign stop, and that Mexico was going to pay for - I never fell for that can of goods. And it never should have been sold that way, knowing a Gulf to Pacific Wall is not geographicly possible even if the money was there. By setting expectations up that way was going to someday come back and bite Tump in the ass was a certainty, and here we are.

The American public, even some calling themselves Democrats can see reason for far better border security, an "All of the Above" approach, and it could have been part of the budget long ago if not for the salesman.

@NavyCanDo

Pretty much agree with most of what you said

But do have to take some exception to the bolder part...

If the Chinese could do this 400 years ago...I don’t think that we can use terrain as an excuse:

[Wingnut]

I'm at Tampa International Airport.  Newsstand has Tampa Bay Times with headline "Trump Retreats"

Media is positively giddy over this.

Sounds about right for the Tampa Times.  They are rock solid in their  propaganda!

(Even if that HL was true)

[EdJames]

First let me get out of the way for newer members who don't know me. Although he did not get my vote, I am not a Never Trumper. The next president very likely is replacing RBG turning the High Court conservative for the rest of my life is reason alone for me to vote Trump in 2020, despite everything else about him.

As for the Big Beautiful Wall that kept getting 10 feet higher at every campaign stop, and that Mexico was going to pay for - I never fell for that can of goods. And it never should have been sold that way, knowing a Gulf to Pacific Wall is not geographicly possible even if the money was there. By setting expectations up that way was going to someday come back and bite Tump in the ass was a certainty, and here we are.

The American public, even some calling themselves Democrats can see reason for far better border security, an "All of the Above" approach, and it could have been part of the budget long ago if not for the salesman.

You are correct, Chief.  Trump figured out that he could use all of the showmanship, the over the top rhetoric, the clear exaggerations, the BS, etc., to win the nomination and eventually the election.  But, I don't think that he realized that once elected, none of that crap would keep working. 

Governing is not show business (or private sector wheeling and dealing).  The show biz act is no longer effective.

However, as I have pointed out several times in various threads here (which is routinely ignored by those that prefer to just keep repeating the same mantra over and over), he was not ever going to get anything passed through the "GOP" House controlled by Ryan and the "GOP" Senate controlled by McConnell, IF they (and their donors-supporters) were not in favor of it.

Somehow he gained agreement for these 3 main items in the past Congress:
1.  Beefed up military funding.
2.  Senate confirmation of judges and justices.
3.  Modification of the income tax code.

That was it.  The was never a snowball's chance in hell that Ryan and McConnell were ever going to pass legislation to properly fund a border wall and put it on Trump's desk.  Never.  That's reality.

What is also "reality" is that the showmanship, carnival barker act is never going to work to accomplish major policy initiatives.  Trump better find and start listening to some advisors that can spell that out clearly for him.

[NavyCanDo]

@NavyCanDo

Pretty much agree with most of what you said

But do have to take some exception to the bolder part...

If the Chinese could do this 400 years ago...I don’t think that we can use terrain as an excuse:

The ancient Chinese had absolute eminent domain for every inch of it. Much of the U.S. Mexican border is privately owned land.  There are other kinds of mountains. The mountain range of bureaucracy, and the mountain range of Courts.

[bigheadfred]

And those mountains are full of crooks and nannies.

[NavyCanDo]

Just pointing out that during the campaign when Trump was making "The Wall" the main topic of his stump speaches, that those of us here who said he was overplaying it and he should be discussing a more logical and palatable "All of the Above" approach to border security were called traitors. Now you hear Trump beginning to use the words, fences, drones, walls, more border guards, eVerify, all part of the solution. What we have been saying back then and called names for it.j
You are the ones who believed that there would be a 25 foot wall from the Gulf to the Pacific. I'm not chastising you for it, just pointing out that our view into the crystal ball was far more clear.

[sneakypete]

Much of the U.S. Mexican border is privately owned land.  There are other kinds of mountains. The mountain range of bureaucracy, and the mountain range of Courts.

@NavyCanDo

Yeah,but you can believe there is a certain section of each tract that may be owned by the land owner,but is controlled by the federal government. Otherwise land owners could put up toll booths and legally charge illegals a fee to let them enter the US.

[Cyber Liberty]

It's not possible or practical to wall up every inch.  President Trump stated on numerous occasions a wall would apply to, at most, 1,000 miles of border.

[bigheadfred]

It's not possible or practical to wall up every inch.  President Trump stated on numerous occasions a wall would apply to, at most, 1,000 miles of border.

I am sure there long sections that would be impassable without a good supply line.

[Chosen Daughter]

You know president TRUMP did not create any of this!  Why mad at him?  He has to deal with what IS. I don't understand your dislike for a good man and president.  Cruz?  MORE OF THE SAME ESTABLISHMENT B.S.  None of you have learned anything. DECADES of these professional politicians and you think it will be different, with them? I have a bridge.




Sorry...

@Hoodat is just stating the truth.  Are you saying Trump never told people he would send people out and bring them back?  We all talked about it during the campaign and it was well documented and verifiable.  And we all knew it had been promoted before and was touchback amnesty.

So I would also like to point out the appropriate time to shut the government down would have been before Nancy Pelosi took control of Congress.  It would have been at the point of the spending bill of which he had previously said he would not sign.

[Cyber Liberty]

I am sure there long sections that would be impassable without a good supply line.

You bet.  That stretch across AZ and NM is pretty desolate country, which is why the Border Patrol finds several hundred dead bodies every year.  Even with the help of traffickers that's a mighty naturally dangerous place.

[Chosen Daughter]

You bet.  That stretch across AZ and NM is pretty desolate country, which is why the Border Patrol finds several hundred dead bodies every year.  Even with the help of traffickers that's a mighty naturally dangerous place.

Isn't that where they just apprehended the Middle Easterner on the terror watch list, New Mexico?

Well I could not find it but the fact is that terrorists are crossing the border.  This is a chilling report from Center For Security Policy.


https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/2019/01/07/the-terror-threat-on-the-southern-border/

I think this was the story but they were caught in Arizona not NM.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jan/21/terrorism-suspect-caught-us-mexico-border-roils-im/

[jmyrlefuller]

You know president TRUMP did not create any of this!  Why mad at him?  He has to deal with what IS. I don't understand your dislike for a good man and president.  Cruz?  MORE OF THE SAME ESTABLISHMENT B.S.  None of you have learned anything. DECADES of these professional politicians and you think it will be different, with them? I have a bridge.

And you think it's going to be different with a decade-long employee of NBC, donor to Clinton and Cuomo, trust-fund baby and all-around influence peddler. Got it.

I'd believe your schtick if it were some complete neophyte farmer from Nebraska who somehow found his way into the Presidency. But celebrities get famous from the same media-governmental complex that feeds politicians.

[Cyber Liberty]

Isn't that where they just apprehended the Middle Easterner on the terror watch list, New Mexico?

I don't recall the story, exactly.  The Border Patrol has been saying for the past several years they're arresting more and more OTMs coming over the entire border.

[sneakypete]

It's not possible or practical to wall up every inch.  President Trump stated on numerous occasions a wall would apply to, at most, 1,000 miles of border.

@Cyber Liberty

Of course it is possible. It might not be practical or even necessary,but it's ridiculous to claim it's not possible.

[sneakypete]

You bet.  That stretch across AZ and NM is pretty desolate country, which is why the Border Patrol finds several hundred dead bodies every year.  Even with the help of traffickers that's a mighty naturally dangerous place.

Cyber Liberty

Areas like that could be easily monitored for human traffic by both buried sensors and drones,with BP stations close enough for quick response by truck or even helicopter.

We either control our borders or we don't have a sovereign nation. There is no in-between.

[sneakypete]

And you think it's going to be different with a decade-long employee of NBC, donor to Clinton and Cuomo, trust-fund baby and all-around influence peddler. Got it.

 

@jmyrlefuller

Class envy and jealousy is never pretty.

[Chosen Daughter]

I don't recall the story, exactly.  The Border Patrol has been saying for the past several years they're arresting more and more OTMs coming over the entire border.

It was this story but they were caught in Arizona.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jan/21/terrorism-suspect-caught-us-mexico-border-roils-im/

The link I gave for Center for Security Policy shows gives a chilling account of the threat.  It isn't just recently it is just progressing recently.

[Chosen Daughter]

Cyber Liberty

Areas like that could be easily monitored for human traffic by both buried sensors and drones,with BP stations close enough for quick response by truck or even helicopter.

We either control our borders or we don't have a sovereign nation. There is no in-between.

If there is any area they need something sensors, cameras.  How much do drones cost to operate all day on the border?  And the wall, any wall fence impenetrable barrier needs to extend under the ground also.

[jmyrlefuller]

Class envy and jealousy is never pretty.

Meh. Elitism looks pretty, but it's only skin deep. I prefer to look at it as well-earned, hardened cynicism.

[Cyber Liberty]

Cyber Liberty

Areas like that could be easily monitored for human traffic by both buried sensors and drones,with BP stations close enough for quick response by truck or even helicopter.

We either control our borders or we don't have a sovereign nation. There is no in-between.

I agree with you, @sneakypete:  It's not "impossible," but impractical as all get-out.  I'm fine with electronic detection and such for those desolate places mentioned above.  That said, there are other places that could really use a real wall.

As others have said, a "wall" is passive:  Once you build it, it remains an obstacle until removed.  The high-tech solutions can be switched off by the next Rat President.

[Cyber Liberty]

It was this story but they were caught in Arizona.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jan/21/terrorism-suspect-caught-us-mexico-border-roils-im/

The link I gave for Center for Security Policy shows gives a chilling account of the threat.  It isn't just recently it is just progressing recently.

Thanks for the link!  Makes me glad I just moved to a Castle next to Nevada (and I'm as armed as you might expect an Arizonan to be).