Author Topic: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!  (Read 102073 times)

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Offline Bigun

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #450 on: August 28, 2019, 01:35:24 pm »
That was the one game that I thought the Rays might be able to win....  Uncle Charlie on the mound..... and yes, I expected a great pitcher's duel!!   oh well....

I don't blame you for following them as closely as you can....  you guys have a special team there!!

Enjoy them to the max!!


 :beer:

Will do as this is likely the last year this team will be together.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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Offline EasyAce

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #451 on: August 28, 2019, 01:37:11 pm »
That was the one game that I thought the Rays might be able to win....  Uncle Charlie on the mound..... and yes, I expected a great pitcher's duel!!   oh well....

I don't blame you for following them as closely as you can....  you guys have a special team there!!
The wildest part: the Astros are doing it despite rivaling the Yankees for injured-list residents for the most part. A lot of their injuries kill teams without their depth.


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Online catfish1957

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #452 on: August 28, 2019, 01:44:12 pm »
Will do as this is likely the last year this team will be together.

Maybe not as bad as we think.  Cole and Correa are the 2 pieces I think are the most likely to go.  If we get even 50% production from farm (Tucker and Whitley, offensively and pitching) we should be just fine.
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Offline EasyAce

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #453 on: August 28, 2019, 01:49:07 pm »
Will do as this is likely the last year this team will be together.
@Bigun
Not necessarily. They'll be together at least for another run in 2020 and I wouldn't bet against them at all for that.

Major key number one beyond: Re-signing Jose Altuve, if they can. They're in a position to think about extending him and getting it done before the last two years on his current contract expire. Right now, they are. A lot will depend on whether those players not yet arbitration eligible become more expensive over time and how much more so in arbitration before Altuve hits his first free agency. If they do to enough extent and the Astros decide they can't afford to keep Altuve, that would be the biggest blow to them. If any Astro is the real heart and soul of this team, it's him. Losing him would be tantamount to the day Duke Ellington lost his great alto saxophonist Johnny Hodges forever.

The better news: George Springer, Carlos Correa (when he returns from the IL), and Lance McCullers Jr. (when he returns) are still early in their primes. Alex Bregman probably hasn't reached his highest potential just yet and he's already one of the best in the American League. And there are more coming through the organisational pipeline who have upside enough to keep the Astros competitive enough that they can play the free agent markets prudently, maybe enough so that all those factors combine to tell them keeping Jose Altuve is worth it, after all.

I see the Astros still able to make runs in 2020 and even 2021. Beyond that? It's a crap shoot. Even as brainy as the Astros' brain trusts are, they're not that far from their greatest challenge.


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Online catfish1957

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #454 on: August 28, 2019, 01:56:49 pm »
@Bigun
Not necessarily. They'll be together at least for another run in 2020 and I wouldn't bet against them at all for that.

Major key number one beyond: Re-signing Jose Altuve, if they can. They're in a position to think about extending him and getting it done before the last two years on his current contract expire. Right now, they are. A lot will depend on whether those players not yet arbitration eligible become more expensive over time and how much more so in arbitration before Altuve hits his first free agency. If they do to enough extent and the Astros decide they can't afford to keep Altuve, that would be the biggest blow to them. If any Astro is the real heart and soul of this team, it's him. Losing him would be tantamount to the day Duke Ellington lost his great alto saxophonist Johnny Hodges forever.

The better news: George Springer, Carlos Correa (when he returns from the IL), and Lance McCullers Jr. (when he returns) are still early in their primes. Alex Bregman probably hasn't reached his highest potential just yet and he's already one of the best in the American League. And there are more coming through the organisational pipeline who have upside enough to keep the Astros competitive enough that they can play the free agent markets prudently, maybe enough so that all those factors combine to tell them keeping Jose Altuve is worth it, after all.

I see the Astros still able to make runs in 2020 and even 2021. Beyond that? It's a crap shoot. Even as brainy as the Astros' brain trusts are, they're not that far from their greatest challenge.

????

Altuve's under contract until 2024......  That's 5 years, and 35 years old.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 01:58:10 pm by catfish1957 »
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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #455 on: August 28, 2019, 01:58:34 pm »

Offline EasyAce

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #456 on: August 28, 2019, 02:04:00 pm »
@EasyAce

Altuve's contract extension already happened in March:

www.chron.com/sports/astros/article/Astros-Jose-Altuve-sign-long-term-contract-million-12763890.php
@GrouchoTex
@catfish1957
I've never been so relieved to sit corrected. I must have missed that one while watching a lot of other things, around the Astros and elsewhere. (Like everyone else, just about, I was watching the Harper/Machado sweepstakes and thrown for the loop when the Angels made Mike Trout an Angel for life. Talk about sneaking a great one under the radar, which is just what the Astros did with the Altuve extension!)

That's great for the Astros. Like I said, Altuve's their heart and soul. But even with Altuve locked down, the Astros still look like they'll face a couple of challenges come 2021-2022. One of them may be named George Springer, who's probably tied for second with Alex Bregman (he's locked in until after the 2024 season) in the heart-and-soul department. If I'm the Astros, I'd like very much not to lose Springer, either.


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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #457 on: August 28, 2019, 02:05:36 pm »
@GrouchoTex
@catfish1957
I've never been so relieved to sit corrected. I must have missed that one while watching a lot of other things, around the Astros and elsewhere. (Like everyone else, just about, I was watching the Harper/Machado sweepstakes and thrown for the loop when the Angels made Mike Trout an Angel for life. Talk about sneaking a great one under the radar, which is just what the Astros did with the Altuve extension!)

That's great for the Astros. Like I said, Altuve's their heart and soul. But even with Altuve locked down, the Astros still look like they'll face a couple of challenges come 2021-2022. One of them may be named George Springer, who's probably tied for second with Alex Bregman (he's locked in until after the 2024 season) in the heart-and-soul department. If I'm the Astros, I'd like very much not to lose Springer, either.

Springer, Alvarez and (yes) Correa.

Offline EasyAce

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #458 on: August 28, 2019, 02:10:18 pm »
Springer, Alvarez and (yes) Correa.
Correa becomes a free agent for the first time in 2022; his first arbitration will be for next season, I think. If he returns to health and stays there with even his current productivity level, the Astros may find him becoming a little on the pricy side, too, by the time he reaches his free agency eligibility. Things are really going to start getting tricky for them in 2022.


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Online catfish1957

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #459 on: August 28, 2019, 02:16:29 pm »

One of them may be named George Springer, who's probably tied for second with Alex Bregman (he's locked in until after the 2024 season) in the heart-and-soul department. If I'm the Astros, I'd like very much not to lose Springer, either.

Crane has done a great job of opening up the checkbook.  But you are right about the Springer-Bregman predicament. I just don't see how Luhnow signs both without blowing the lid on salaries, and Luxury Taxes.

IMO, Bregman has a higher ceiling, but Springer is a better choice as a solid consistent dependable high end contributor.  Glad I won't have to make that decison.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Online catfish1957

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #460 on: August 28, 2019, 02:19:35 pm »
Correa becomes a free agent for the first time in 2022; his first arbitration will be for next season, I think. If he returns to health and stays there with even his current productivity level, the Astros may find him becoming a little on the pricy side, too, by the time he reaches his free agency eligibility. Things are really going to start getting tricky for them in 2022.

There are a lot of whispers in Astroville about Correa, his mystery injuries, and his fiance' who I believe has aspirations for them in the  LA / NY bright lights.  I don't think Correa will stay in Houston.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline EasyAce

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #461 on: August 28, 2019, 02:21:33 pm »
Crane has done a great job of opening up the checkbook.  But you are right about the Springer-Bregman predicament. I just don't see how Luhnow signs both without blowing the lid on salaries, and Luxury Taxes.

IMO, Bregman has a higher ceiling, but Springer is a better choice as a solid consistent dependable high end contributor.  Glad I won't have to make that decison.
@catfish1957
Luhnow's on the threshold of learning (hopefully not the hard way) the biggest differences between building/rebuilding an organisation and sustaining it. I'm glad I won't have to make those decisions either.


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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #462 on: August 28, 2019, 02:27:19 pm »
Crane has done a great job of opening up the checkbook.  But you are right about the Springer-Bregman predicament. I just don't see how Luhnow signs both without blowing the lid on salaries, and Luxury Taxes.

IMO, Bregman has a higher ceiling, but Springer is a better choice as a solid consistent dependable high end contributor.  Glad I won't have to make that decison.

Bregman is locked in for 5 more years also:

www.si.com/mlb/2019/03/19/alex-bregman-astros-deal-extension

Springer, Alvarez and Correa.....

who stays?

Who goes?

Who knows?

Obviously, I'd like all 3, but............

Online catfish1957

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #463 on: August 28, 2019, 02:34:04 pm »
Bregman is locked in for 5 more years also:

www.si.com/mlb/2019/03/19/alex-bregman-astros-deal-extension

Springer, Alvarez and Correa.....

who stays?

Who goes?

Who knows?

Obviously, I'd like all 3, but............

I'd forgotten about the Bregman extension.  Alvarez, being a rookie shouldn't be FA eligible until 2024 too, though at his rate of ascension, his arbitration numbers might get pretty lofty till then.

Based on that, jettison Correa.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline EasyAce

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #464 on: August 28, 2019, 02:37:51 pm »
I'd forgotten about the Bregman extension.  Alvarez, being a rookie shouldn't be FA eligible until 2024 too, though at his rate of ascension, his arbitration numbers might get pretty lofty till then.

Based on that, jettison Correa.
Especially if I'm right about Bregman and he's only just begun reaching maximum potential. Alvarez will bear definite watching, of course, but if Bregman continues breaking his ceilings the Astros' pickle will get even more picklish in a few years.


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Offline Bigun

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #465 on: August 28, 2019, 03:07:49 pm »
My prediction FWIW:    Gerrit Cole and Carlos Correa will both be gone before the 2020 season rolls around.
Probably Chris Devinski as well.
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Online catfish1957

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #466 on: August 28, 2019, 03:18:52 pm »

Probably Chris Devinski as well.

 888mouth
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Online DCPatriot

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #467 on: August 28, 2019, 03:37:32 pm »
IF Limbaugh is involved in any negotiations to buy the Royals you can bet your @$$ that a guy who knows plenty about baseball is sitting right there beside him.  Fellow by the name of George Brett.

Exactly, @Bigun !!   :beer:

He and Brett are very good friends.   

Even if Rush only owns 15%...that's a sh*tload of $$$  !!!
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Offline EasyAce

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #468 on: August 28, 2019, 03:44:33 pm »
Well, it looks so far as though the inside track on buying the Royals, if indeed they are for sale, belongs to a group headed by John Sherman, a fellow from Kansas City who has about a 25 percent stake in the Indians but is ready to sell that stake to buy the Royals. And Sherman seems to be very well respected in Kansas City.


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Offline EasyAce

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #469 on: August 31, 2019, 12:32:30 am »
@DCPatriot
Thought you'd like this . . .



You can get one through Legend-Tee.


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Offline EasyAce

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #470 on: August 31, 2019, 12:35:20 am »
Royals sold to K.C. businessman, investors group
Led as previously reported by Kansas City area businessman John Sherman.



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Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #471 on: September 03, 2019, 03:46:28 pm »
I'm just going to leave this here ...

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Offline EasyAce

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #472 on: September 03, 2019, 03:55:12 pm »
I'm just going to leave this here ...


I'm surprised Rajai Davis didn't need oxygen after that!


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Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #473 on: September 03, 2019, 04:00:09 pm »
I'm surprised Rajai Davis didn't need oxygen after that!

Oxygen?  I was thinking he might need counseling.
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Offline EasyAce

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #474 on: September 03, 2019, 04:45:56 pm »
Oxygen?  I was thinking he might need counseling.
That too!


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

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Offline AllThatJazzZ

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #475 on: September 04, 2019, 09:02:51 pm »
A snapshot on September 4



A government big enough to give you everything you want
is a government big enough to take away everything you have.




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has a license for any kind of atrocity.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #476 on: September 06, 2019, 10:51:23 am »
Joe west is without doubt THE worst caller of balls and strikes in the history of baseball! 
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #477 on: September 06, 2019, 11:08:14 am »
Joe west is without doubt THE worst caller of balls and strikes in the history of baseball!

Not very good with home runs, either, as I recall.....

I didn't make it through all the innings last night.
I fell asleep just after the ninth. Pretty, amazing, to be down 7-0 after 2 innings and come back to win the thing 11-9 in the 13th.

So I started thinking....

The 1980/1981:  Astros were a very good team , made the playoffs, J.R. richards, Nolan Ryan picthed a no-hitter.

1986: A good year, a lot of come from behind games, made the playoffs, Mike Scott, Nolan Ryan, Glen Davis (the big bopper).

1998/2005: Consistently in the playoffs, killer B's, Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, Roy Oswalt, Billy Wagner. Made a World Series appearance.

2015/present day:  My humble opinion, the best Astros team of all time.
When healthy, the line-up is scary.
This year, 4 starters leading in ERA (well Miley may drop off this list now).
Leading in both strike outs, and not getting struck out.
3 playoff appearances in 4 years (soon to be 4 out of 5).
1 world series win.


Offline EasyAce

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #478 on: September 06, 2019, 11:11:55 am »
Joe west is without doubt THE worst caller of balls and strikes in the history of baseball!
@Bigun
It's possible he's also one of the most corrupt.

I found a USA Today story from May that I'd missed the first time around, discussing former catcher Paul Lo Duca becoming quite the storyteller in his retirement: when Lo Duca was catching for the Mets and Billy Wagner was the Mets' closer, Wagner told Lo Duca to set up a couple of extra inches on the inside of the plate when West was the plate ump. Lo Duca thought Wagner was putting him on---especially since Lo Duca didn't seem to be one of West's favourite catchers. (I've been thrown out of fifteen games in my life and eight or nine of them were Joe . . . He used to tell me before every game, "Hey, Lo Duca, you gonna stay in this one?" and I used to go, "[Fornicate] you, Joe.")

So Lo Duca was shocked when Wagner came into a game against the Phillies and told him to set up those extra inside inches. "I was like, ‘Are you kidding me? Joe hates me.’ He’s like, ‘No, no, no, no, no, no. Joe loves me'," Lo Duca said. “I go, ‘He hasn’t given us the corner all day.’ [Wagner]’s like, ‘Don’t worry about it.’ He literally throws 10 pitches and strikes out three guys. Joe rings up all three guys. Eight out of the nine pitches were at least three to four inches inside, not even close. Guys were throwing bats and everything. Joe walks off the field.”

Lo Duca couldn't resist buttonholing Wagner after the game demanding answers. And Wagner replied, "Eh, Joe loves antique cars so every time he comes into town I lend him my ’57 Chevy so he can drive it around so then he opens up the strike zone for me."

I guess that means that, if you want a little love from Joe West, it helps if you have an antique car. If West would open the strike zone for Billy Wagner based on a '57 Chevy, imagine what he'd do for you if you let him drive, say, your '55 Lincoln Continental, your '54 Studebaker Starlight, your '49 Hudson Hornet, or your '48 Packard, if you happened to have one.


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Offline Bigun

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #479 on: September 06, 2019, 11:16:44 am »
@Bigun
It's possible he's also one of the most corrupt.

I found a USA Today story from May that I'd missed the first time around, discussing former catcher Paul Lo Duca becoming quite the storyteller in his retirement: when Lo Duca was catching for the Mets and Billy Wagner was the Mets' closer, Wagner told Lo Duca to set up a couple of extra inches on the inside of the plate when West was the plate ump. Lo Duca thought Wagner was putting him on---especially since Lo Duca didn't seem to be one of West's favourite catchers. (I've been thrown out of fifteen games in my life and eight or nine of them were Joe . . . He used to tell me before every game, "Hey, Lo Duca, you gonna stay in this one?" and I used to go, "[Fornicate] you, Joe.")

So Lo Duca was shocked when Wagner came into a game against the Phillies and told him to set up those extra inside inches. "I was like, ‘Are you kidding me? Joe hates me.’ He’s like, ‘No, no, no, no, no, no. Joe loves me'," Lo Duca said. “I go, ‘He hasn’t given us the corner all day.’ [Wagner]’s like, ‘Don’t worry about it.’ He literally throws 10 pitches and strikes out three guys. Joe rings up all three guys. Eight out of the nine pitches were at least three to four inches inside, not even close. Guys were throwing bats and everything. Joe walks off the field.”

Lo Duca couldn't resist buttonholing Wagner after the game demanding answers. And Wagner replied, "Eh, Joe loves antique cars so every time he comes into town I lend him my ’57 Chevy so he can drive it around so then he opens up the strike zone for me."

I guess that means that, if you want a little love from Joe West, it helps if you have an antique car. If West would open the strike zone for Billy Wagner based on a '57 Chevy, imagine what he'd do for you if you let him drive, say, your '55 Lincoln Continental, your '54 Studebaker Starlight, your '49 Hudson Hornet, or your '48 Packard, if you happened to have one.

Wouldn't doubt that a bit @EasyAce.  Pitchers in last night's Astros game had no idea where the strike zone was with him behind the plate!  Sheech!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline EasyAce

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #480 on: September 06, 2019, 11:18:47 am »
Wouldn't doubt that a bit @EasyAce.  Pitchers in last night's Astros game had no idea where the strike zone was with him behind the plate!  Sheech!
West isn't exactly the only umpire who causes that problem for both teams in a game. He's merely the most flagrant about it as often as not.


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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #481 on: September 06, 2019, 11:31:42 am »
West isn't exactly the only umpire who causes that problem for both teams in a game. He's merely the most flagrant about it as often as not.

Why bother with instant replay and allow that kind of s%*t behind the plate?
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #482 on: September 06, 2019, 11:33:23 am »
West isn't exactly the only umpire who causes that problem for both teams in a game. He's merely the most flagrant about it as often as not.

I had a friend years ago who loved the guy.
Every time we would go to an Astros game, he'd be excited when he'd be one of the umps.
He used to tell me, all the time, "Joe West is a country singer".

All the time...........

If Joe West was On TV,  mentioned on the Radio, or live, my friend would bring up the singing.
I had to finally say,"Yes, you've told me several times that he is a Country singer, you don't need to tell me anymore, I got it, and, no, he is not a very good umpire".
We still remained friends, but he's passed on since this all happened.
He would have agreed with all of us today.
Joe West has been around since the 80's at least.

Offline EdJames

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #483 on: September 06, 2019, 11:36:56 am »
Joe west is without doubt THE worst caller of balls and strikes in the history of baseball!

Joe West is the guy that 99 times out of 100 when my son and I watch a game, he undoubtedly leaves us:  9999hair out0000

(And it has been forever with him!!)

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #484 on: September 06, 2019, 11:39:38 am »
Joe West is the guy that 99 times out of 100 when my son and I watch a game, he undoubtedly leaves us:  9999hair out0000

(And it has been forever with him!!)

That A$$hole by himself caused the Astros to have to win the game at least three times last night!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online catfish1957

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #485 on: September 06, 2019, 11:39:59 am »
Joe West is the guy that 99 times out of 100 when my son and I watch a game, he undoubtedly leaves us:  9999hair out0000

(And it has been forever with him!!)

West, Bucknor, and Hernandez will be the reason that MLB adopts electronic strike zones 10 years sooner than I thought.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #486 on: September 06, 2019, 11:42:55 am »
West, Bucknor, and Hernandez will be the reason that MLB adopts electronic strike zones 10 years sooner than I thought.

West is enough all by himself if you ask me!  Don't get me wrong, I don't like any of this modern crap but enough is enough!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline EdJames

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #487 on: September 06, 2019, 11:46:42 am »
West is enough all by himself if you ask me!  Don't get me wrong, I don't like any of this modern crap but enough is enough!

The modern crap just makes it all so much more "in your face!!"

Offline Bigun

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #488 on: September 06, 2019, 11:54:24 am »
The modern crap just makes it all so much more "in your face!!"

Yeah!  I think you're right @EdJames.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #489 on: September 06, 2019, 11:55:59 am »
West, Bucknor, and Hernandez will be the reason that MLB adopts electronic strike zones 10 years sooner than I thought.

Angel Hernandez threw A.J. Hinch out of a spring training game.

Offline EasyAce

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #490 on: September 06, 2019, 12:55:59 pm »
Joe West has been around since the 80's at least.
@GrouchoTex
@Bigun

Sometimes forgotten: Joe West was one of the 22 umpires foolish enough to walk off the cliff when the executive director of the old umpires' union, Richie Phillips, devised the mass-resignation strategy to try forcing baseball government to back the hell off when it began demanding---oh, the horror!---umpire accountability. The whole story was written by the late Doug Pappas in "Summer 1999: 22 Men Out." The general drift:

* Phillips announced the mass resignation of 57 major league umpires effective 2 September 1999.

* He said the umpires wanted "to feel good about themselves and would rather not continue as umpires if they have to continue under present circumstances. They feel in the past seven months or so, they have been humiliated and denigrated."

* The "humiliation and denigration" included umpire outrage when Tom Hallion was suspended for bumping a player. You can imagine the umps' outrage if a player bumped an ump and didn't get suspended.

* MLB redefined the strike zone over umpires refusing to call strikes at the top of the strike zone. Phillips claimed MLB couldn't do it without the umps' approval. (As with many other things, Phillips was dead wrong about that.)

* When the players' union ran a survey of players, coaches, and managers ranking umpires, Phillips dismissed at "subjective." When the commissioner's office asked teams to chart pitches and file reports on umpire strike zones, Phillips denounced it as "Big Brother watching over us." As Pappas observed wryly, "An employer evaluating the competence of its employees. The nerve!"

* When Phillips (on the HBO program Real Sports) equated umpires to federal judges who shouldn't be subject to voters' whims, Sandy Alderson---who then worked in the commissioner's office---shot back, "Federal judges can be impeached. I got worried when I found out that players were more concerned with who was umpiring the next day than they were about who was pitching."

* Phillips's announcement of the mass resignations included the news that, as of 2 September, the umps would be part of a new outfit, Umpires Inc., that would negotiate to provide umps to major league baseball . . . and that they'd have no supervision or umpire assignment except that provided by, what do you know, Umpires, Inc. "To owners and players alike," Pappas wrote, "this demand was tantamount to a municipal police union demanding an end to civilian control of the police force. Even if the owners had been willing to cede such authority, the screams of the MLBPA would have killed the deal. And the owners weren't willing. When informed of the umpires' move, Sandy Alderson . . . termed the resignations 'either a threat to be ignored or an offer to be accepted'."

* A few of the umpires who didn't have carrot juice for brains got an a-ha!---the mass resignation tactic was really a bid to evade the no-strike clause in the umpires' labour agreement with MLB and, thus, the umps would "abandon the protections of their contract and [leave] themselves at MLB's mercy," as Pappas put it. These umps consulted with their own attorneys and rescinded their resignations.

* Most of Phillips' support came from National League umps including Joe West; the dissenters were a larger group among the American League umps. The American League dissenters not only formerly wanted to dump Phillips in favour of a less confrontational union director, they denounced Phillips publicly and begged colleagues to do likewise.

* By 23 July, MLB hired 25 minor league umps for major league umpiring jobs effective (what do you know) 2 September---and all those minor league umps happened to have major league experience: they'd filled in for the MLB umps taking midseason vacations.

* At the same time, MLB said they'd take back any MLB umpires who rescinded their resignations but said the offer was a limited time offer.

* Phillips shot back with a federal lawsuit demanding MLB give the umps until 2 September to withdraw their resignations.

* Then-American League president Gene Budig said the nine American League umps who didn't rescind their resignations would lose their jobs on 2 September.

* Those nine plus 33 National League umps withdrew their resignations. Oops. The National League said it had only 20 openings.

* John Hirschbeck and Joe Brinkman led a group of dissenters to the Phillips strategy in a statement attacking Phillips and the union, saying, "major league umpires have been seriously harmed because union leadership adopted a flawed strategy that was doomed to fail from the beginning. The advice to quit jobs in order to keep them made no sense at all, especially under a collective bargaining contract that not only ruled out strikes, but also ruled out 'other concerted work stoppage'."

* West was one of the thirteen National League umps now stuck without a job. Meanwhile, the wife of about-to-be-ex-NL ump Ed Montague sent Hirschbeck's wife a thunderous letter denouncing Hirschbeck as "a Judas in our midst who sold us out for 20 pieces of gold." And Phillips himself vowed to fight "absolutely to the death" over, basically, his right to destroy the careers of a third the membership of the umps' union.

* Phillips audaciously filed a complaint with the National Labour Relations Board claiming MLB had no "right" to accept the umps' signed resignations---because they "must" be seen "as a symbolic gesture aimed at inducing discussions between the two sides.''

The postscript:

* Hirschbeck and Brinkman led the creation of the new and still-operating World Umpires Association, with Brinkman saying publicly there'd be no room for Richie Phillips.

* When Hirschbeck and Brinkman's new group held the certification vote, the ballots sent out included ballots sent to the umps whose resignations were accepted in the self-immolating Phillips strategy. The new union beat the old union soundly in the certification vote. The old union filed a grievance with the NLRB but lost, and the World Umpires Association was certified.

* West was one of the umpires who'd be re-hired in 2002 under an agreement between the WUA and MLB. The other rehires included Gary Darling (who retired in 2004), Larry Poncino (retired in 2007), Bill Hohn (retired in 2010), Larry Vanover, Paul Nauert, Bruce Dreckman, Sam Holbrook, and Rich Garcia---who didn't return to umpiring on the field but was hired as an umpire supervisor, instead.

* More of the umps were rehired by 2005, including Tom Hallion and Ed Hickox. Bob Davidson was rehired in 2007 and retired in 2016.

* The formation of the WUA also led to longtime umps Derryl Cousins and John Shulock joining the umpires union; they'd been rejected for membership in the old union after they were forced to cross picket lines during a 1979 umps' strike.

* John Hirschbeck served as the first president of the World Umpires Association. His successor since 2009: Joe West. Hirschbeck retired as an umpire in 2016.

* Last year, the WUA re-branded itself as the Major League Baseball Umpires' Association.

* Richie Phillips died of a heart attack in 2013. The New York Times headline on his obituary: "Richie Phillips, Union Leader Who Helped and Hurt Umpires . . ."
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 01:00:51 pm by EasyAce »


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline EasyAce

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #491 on: September 06, 2019, 12:56:40 pm »
Angel Hernandez threw A.J. Hinch out of a spring training game.
@GrouchoTex
Angel Hernandez would probably throw his own mother out of the ballpark for hollering over one of his blown calls.


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #492 on: September 06, 2019, 01:02:12 pm »
@GrouchoTex
Angel Hernandez would probably throw his own mother out of the ballpark for hollering over one of his blown calls.

LOL, yeah, probably so.

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #493 on: September 06, 2019, 01:10:16 pm »
Quote
His successor since 2009: Joe West.

 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline EdJames

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #494 on: September 10, 2019, 02:15:34 pm »
Thank you Astros for beating Oakland....  please, three more in a row....  thanks in advance!!

Offline Bigun

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #495 on: September 10, 2019, 02:19:45 pm »
Thank you Astros for beating Oakland....  please, three more in a row....  thanks in advance!!

Our pleasure @EdJames!  Astros scored 36 runs in the last two games.  Six homers in the first two innings last night alone.  And then Thor-Don hit one where no one goes!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline EdJames

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #496 on: September 10, 2019, 02:21:11 pm »
Our pleasure @EdJames!  Astros scored 36 runs in the last two games.  Six homers in the first two innings last night alone.  And then Thor-Don hit one where no one goes!

I saw that!!

 888high58888

Offline AllThatJazzZ

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #497 on: September 19, 2019, 01:08:11 pm »
@GrouchoTex
@Bigun
@catfish1957

I'm not on Twitter, but I always play along on the Stropolls. I'm almost always in agreement with the people participating, but there was one on the 15th that left me yelling at the TV. Guess who was right (she asked, pridefully). Of course it would be Yuli! How could they have gotten it so wrong? Tell me y'all got it right, too.






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is a government big enough to take away everything you have.




Any government that can silence its critics
has a license for any kind of atrocity.
(RFK, Jr., September 2024)


Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #498 on: September 19, 2019, 01:39:42 pm »
@GrouchoTex
@Bigun
@catfish1957

I'm not on Twitter, but I always play along on the Stropolls. I'm almost always in agreement with the people participating, but there was one on the 15th that left me yelling at the TV. Guess who was right (she asked, pridefully). Of course it would be Yuli! How could they have gotten it so wrong? Tell me y'all got it right, too.

Think of it this way....

Altuve bats 2nd, Alvarez 5th, and Gurriel 6th.
There can always be a situation where Altuve has one more at bat in the game than the others do, and he was closest to 30 already.

Offline Bigun

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #499 on: September 19, 2019, 01:44:22 pm »
@GrouchoTex
@Bigun
@catfish1957

I'm not on Twitter, but I always play along on the Stropolls. I'm almost always in agreement with the people participating, but there was one on the 15th that left me yelling at the TV. Guess who was right (she asked, pridefully). Of course it would be Yuli! How could they have gotten it so wrong? Tell me y'all got it right, too.

@AllThatJazzZ I don't play but I agree with you never-the-less.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien