We're Not Battling Craziness. We're Battling Evil.

[DCPatriot]

Bugs you when the 'moral high ground' is the truth, and the 'talking points' are facts, doesn't it?

Why don't you try arguing against morality (which is apparently where you stand)  instead of just calling the people who believe in morality filthy names?

You might find yourself refreshed, and your (mindless) anger abating.

At the risk of insulting your senses, which is not my intent....You don't wear horse blinders.  You are aware of the violence against Conservatives.

Just because you don't wear my MAGA hat doesn't mean they're not coming for you, too.

As Rush said....as we've all said.  "We're at a tipping point in our country"  Continue or revert back to Socialism and pain?

And it all hinges on a generation indoctrinated to accept Barack Obama and Socialism as their 'Elvis Presley'.

You expect to be able to sit in the box seats like those two grouchy Muppets...like some Roman Patrician class while we're down here fighting.

[roamer_1]

You believe we'd be in the same place if Hillary was now in the Oval Office?

@DCPatriot
But, but, butt... Hillary... That whole argument is tired as hell. And no, btw, we are but a few degrees off of where we'd be anyway. Degrees that are easily turned right back.

I like you @roamer_1   Really.
But stop your contrarian bullshit.   You're better than that.

I am not being contrarian. You've got a tax cut, a buttload of EOs that will evaporate like bad gas, and a more liberal SCOTUS than where we started from. Tumpy the clown marching at the front of the parade, throwing candy to the crowd.

Fighting evil... riiiight.
Bleah.

[INVAR]

Par for the course for one who uses his 'energy' to bash those who believe in the Constitution and a moral society.

Voting for more party members to shove their politics down everyone's throats via intimidation and force is all people like him now believe in.  The concept that liberty only exists among a people are a biblically moral and religious civil society, is now seen as an evil and in their feeble minds, a mob and monarchy solves all ills.

[roamer_1]

When you say "the people fighting for moral right, ".....  how, exactly, are they fighting?  If not by voting in elections, what are they specifically doing to 'fight for moral right'?

I don't get what you are getting at @XenaLee ... In the political realm? There are many ways. As an instance, for many years I was very active in getting money for conservative causes... Primarily RTL.

[roamer_1]

Continue or revert back to Socialism and pain?

REVERT? LOL!
Heck son, you're funding it! In the TRILLIONS.

Your boy is up there hawking single payer healthcare again this week...

WHAT 'revert'?

@DCPatriot

[INVAR]

Just because you don't wear my MAGA hat doesn't mean they're not coming for you, too.

Meh.   I recall that the unhinged MAGA hat crowd promised they were coming for those of us who did not vote for or support Trump as traitors and enemies of the people 'when the time comes'.  Hell one of your boys just today referenced us as 'enemies of the people'.

Such people keep demonstrating they are every bit a clear and present danger to liberty as much as the unhinged Left is.  So why should we be worried about the Left when the MAGA hat crowd intends to do the same or worse?

"We're at a tipping point in our country"  Continue or revert back to Socialism and pain?

Yawn.

I've heard that same exact statement every single election cycle since Dole.  It's boring, and trillion-dollar-plus deficits as far as the eye can see under Trump, and the last 6 years of GOP "leadership" have demonstrated that neither party has any intention of reverting us back from Statism and Socialism, only marching us forward into it - with the GOP busy convincing everyone that they can manage Socialism better than the Democrats.

You expect to be able to sit in the box seats like those two grouchy Muppets...like some Roman Patrician class while we're down here fighting.

You're not fighting shit except bashing religious Conservatives and declaring us the 'enemy'. 

[Sanguine]

Riiiiight.... With lesser evil.
What could go wrong?
 

Well......in many cases, it will result in less evil.

No evil does not exist in this world.

[DCPatriot]

Meh.   I recall that the unhinged MAGA hat crowd promised they were coming for those of us who did not vote for or support Trump as traitors and enemies of the people 'when the time comes'.  Hell one of your boys just today referenced us as 'enemies of the people'.

Such people keep demonstrating they are every bit a clear and present danger to liberty as much as the unhinged Left is.  So why should we be worried about the Left when the MAGA hat crowd intends to do the same or worse?

Yawn.

I've heard that same exact statement every single election cycle since Dole.  It's boring, and trillion-dollar-plus deficits as far as the eye can see under Trump, and the last 6 years of GOP "leadership" have demonstrated that neither party has any intention of reverting us back from Statism and Socialism, only marching us forward into it - with the GOP busy convincing everyone that they can manage Socialism better than the Democrats.

You're not fighting shit except bashing religious Conservatives and declaring us the 'enemy'.

Meh.... The Democrats have Antifa.  And the GOP has the Fundamentalist Christian.

The Democratic Fringe is violent and dangerous.  It has teeth until somebody knocks them out.  For example, see Republican Fringe.

The Fundamentalist Christian will gum you to death, but they're every bit as dangerous to the electorate.

[XenaLee]

I don't get what you are getting at @XenaLee ... In the political realm? There are many ways. As an instance, for many years I was very active in getting money for conservative causes... Primarily RTL.

That's great, roamer.  What are you doing now... this year? 

I guess what I'm getting at.... is your vote counts and if you abstain, that's one vote closer to the evil left winning.  And we can't let that happen.  It really is a matter of life and death now, at the risk of being accused of over-dramatization here.  That's how I see it. 

[roamer_1]

Well......in many cases, it will result in less evil.

No evil does not exist in this world.

I would accept that if we were anywhere near close to something resembling good.
That is not the case. The choice between Democrat and Republican is basically a choice between the far left and the moderate left.

[roamer_1]

That's great, roamer.  What are you doing now... this year? 

I guess what I'm getting at.... is your vote counts and if you abstain, that's one vote closer to the evil left winning.  And we can't let that happen.  It really is a matter of life and death now, at the risk of being accused of over-dramatization here.  That's how I see it.

@XenaLee
So I am to vote for the bloody RINOs the Republicans have foisted upon me here? Take one for the team? Is that it?

What profit is there in that?

I have not made my final decision, but I am quite close to skipping the top of the ticket.
I got no dog in this hunt.

[Sanguine]

I would accept that if we were anywhere near close to something resembling good.
That is not the case. The choice between Democrat and Republican is basically a choice between the far left and the moderate left.

That's sort of the point: WE are not in charge of the conditions.  We must make the best we can of what we have.  Utopian fantasies belong on the left, not with us. 

I'm basing my opinions on my many, many years of Bible reading.  If you want to debate the Biblical perspective, we can do that via PM.

[XenaLee]

@XenaLee
So I am to vote for the bloody RINOs the Republicans have foisted upon me here? Take one for the team? Is that it?

What profit is there in that?

I have not made my final decision, but I am quite close to skipping the top of the ticket.
I got no dog in this hunt.

I can only tell you what I feel I must do..... ie yeah, vote for the bloody RINOs.... the same ones that stabbed us in the back on ObamaCare and the budget, the wall, and on and on.   I'm not going to attempt to browbeat anyone into voting GOP like I did at TOS re: voting for Palin (not McCain) years back.  I wasted my time and energy back then and later regretted it.  If nothing else...

I have learned from that ONE mistake...lol.

[roamer_1]

That's sort of the point: WE are not in charge of the conditions.  We must make the best we can of what we have.  Utopian fantasies belong on the left, not with us.

@Sanguine
I am not after utopian fantasies. I stand only upon the principles of Conservatism, and that is ALL I have defended, ever. Name me a SINGLE Conservative principle that is actually enforced. You cannot. Name a single REAL Conservative gain. You cannot.

I can understand less than perfect conditions, but that is a far far cry from telling me to pull for the 'Big Red R' when it supports absolutely NOTHING I can stand upon. I am altogether done with that.

Liberalism does not win on the merits - It has no merit... It wins because there is no opposition.

I'm basing my opinions on my many, many years of Bible reading.  If you want to debate the Biblical perspective, we can do that via PM.

Sure, anytime. But I will probably not be here for the bulk of the day.

[roamer_1]

I can only tell you what I feel I must do..... ie yeah, vote for the bloody RINOs.... the same ones that stabbed us in the back on ObamaCare and the budget, the wall, and on and on.   I'm not going to attempt to browbeat anyone into voting GOP like I did at TOS re: voting for Palin (not McCain) years back.  I wasted my time and energy back then and later regretted it.  If nothing else...

I have learned from that ONE mistake...lol.

@XenaLee
The definition of insanity is...

[INVAR]

The Fundamentalist Christian will gum you to death, but they're every bit as dangerous to the electorate.

Being a common enemy to both the rabid Godless Left and the MAGA Hat crowd makes it easy for us to just laugh at the warnings that the rabid Left is 'coming for us' and to join the MAGA mob in combating them.

I'm content to sit back and watch both mobs have at one another since both of them have stated that we are a dangerous enemy to the people, and will be 'dealt with later'.

[XenaLee]

The definition of insanity is...

Expecting different results.  I get it.  But.... at least right now, in the current moment in time....

we have a booming economy, corporate tax cuts resulting in more jobs which results in more money coming into the system, less regulations, an increasingly stronger military and national defense, and at least for the next two years.... the misery index will be held in check....as the leftists are held in check.   After that, all bets are off.  But I'll do what little I can (vote GOP) to keep that going.  It's all I have.  I'm a realist.

[Sanguine]

@Sanguine
I am not after utopian fantasies. I stand only upon the principles of Conservatism, and that is ALL I have defended, ever. Name me a SINGLE Conservative principle that is actually enforced. You cannot. Name a single REAL Conservative gain. You cannot.

I can understand less than perfect conditions, but that is a far far cry from telling me to pull for the 'Big Red R' when it supports absolutely NOTHING I can stand upon. I am altogether done with that.

Liberalism does not win on the merits - It has no merit... It wins because there is no opposition.

Sure, anytime. But I will probably not be here for the bulk of the day.

I've heard all of that before; we've all argued that point ad nauseum.

We have 3 choices in voting: 
1. Vote for the more evil
2. Vote for the lesser evil
3. Don't vote or vote for someone else. 

If you vote for #1, you get more evil.
If you vote for #2, you have a chance of getting less evil.
And, if you vote #3 you do so knowing that "someone else" will also inevitably fall somewhere in the continuum of more or less evil. And, by choosing #3, unless there is a reasonable expectation that they could win, you are buttressing either #1 or #2.  It just works that way.

[roamer_1]

Expecting different results.  I get it.  But.... at least right now, in the current moment in time....

we have a booming economy, corporate tax cuts resulting in more jobs which results in more money coming into the system, less regulations, an increasingly stronger military and national defense, and at least for the next two years.... the misery index will be held in check....as the leftists are held in check.   After that, all bets are off.  But I'll do what little I can (vote GOP) to keep that going.  It's all I have.  I'm a realist.

@XenaLee
That is not realism. That is fear. The reality is packing even MORE RINOS into an already liberal Republican party.
This is exactly how the Democrats got taken over. And the Republicans go willy-nilly right after them.

There has to be a criteria. There is a standard to meet. And that standard is not simply voting against Democrats when Republicans will give you the very same thing.

You get what you vote *FOR*. Your vote is your endorsement... Your approval. There is no such thing as voting 'against'.

[roamer_1]

And, by choosing #3, unless there is a reasonable expectation that they could win, you are buttressing either #1 or #2.  It just works that way.

FALSE.
If my vote is not in the 'D' column, and my vote is not in the 'R' column, it is not counted for either one. It is counted for the guy I DID vote for. In the 'D' vs 'R' continuum, my vote is a null.

[XenaLee]

@XenaLee
That is not realism. That is fear. The reality is packing even MORE RINOS into an already liberal Republican party.
This is exactly how the Democrats got taken over. And the Republicans go willy-nilly right after them.

There has to be a criteria. There is a standard to meet. And that standard is not simply voting against Democrats when Republicans will give you the very same thing.

You get what you vote *FOR*. Your vote is your endorsement... Your approval. There is no such thing as voting 'against'.

Oh...make no mistake.  Fear is definitely a factor in my voting decision.   Fear of what the radical left is dragging and pushing us toward.... fear of what they want to "fundamentally transform" America into... fear of them succeeding in morphing us into another Venezuela, only worse.  So yeah... I'll take that hit.   I fear for our nation.... so I'm doing the only logical thing I can do, considering the alternative.   I'm voting against the Democrats by voting for the GOP, in hopes of at least 'staving off' that radicalization of America we're experiencing.   

[roamer_1]

I'm voting against the Democrats by voting for the GOP, in hopes of at least 'staving off' that radicalization of America we're experiencing.

Have at it @XenaLee ... And the next time around, will be with even more RINOs - and I note that those Rinos have done nothing to stop that very radicalization of which you speak, and in fact aided its rise.

[XenaLee]

Have at it @XenaLee ... And the next time around, will be with even more RINOs - and I note that those Rinos have done nothing to stop that very radicalization of which you speak, and in fact aided its rise.

Perhaps.  But.... I feel that if I do not at least try at keeping the rabid Democrats from regaining their power in Congress by voting against them.... I would be partially culpable.   And I am at the point in life where I can't live with that knowledge.... considering the looming communism and totalitarianism that the Democratic Party now represents.

[GrouchoTex]

Meh.... The Democrats have Antifa.  And the GOP has the Fundamentalist Christian.

The Democratic Fringe is violent and dangerous.  It has teeth until somebody knocks them out.  For example, see Republican Fringe.

The Fundamentalist Christian will gum you to death, but they're every bit as dangerous to the electorate.

@DCPatriot
Unfortunately, I think you've made @INVAR's point.
You've equated the Antifa left with Christian fundamentalist.
I happen to disagree with that.

More apt would be the comparison of Anita left, those Portland bozos trying to hurt people, and the neo-Nazi types on the right, that Charlottesville nut case who ran over the girl, in my opinion.

Most Christians I know aren't beating people in the streets or running them over for disagreeing with them.

[INVAR]

Most Christians I know aren't beating people in the streets or running them over for disagreeing with them.

We represent something far more dangerous to them, which is why they openly declare us to be dangerous to the electorate.