Author Topic: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS  (Read 12346 times)

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Offline INVAR

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #50 on: August 21, 2018, 07:54:52 pm »
You know, the more I think about all this garbage, the less I think it is directly due to Trump (Only the BEST people), and more because Hillary did not win in order to cover up and bury  all the shit she and Obama had been doing with impunity.

That ANYONE would let the public think there was going to be a swamp-draining, even if it was all bullshit - made the risk of exposure to all the corrupt crap the Clintons and Obama and the Democrats and the Republican Party leadership were engaged in - out in the sunshine.  And the "Deep State" was not going to risk it.

So - like good Marxists do - Projection of what they themselves had been doing upon Trump.  Had it been Cruz - the same garbage would have been attempted.  However, Trump's habit of surrounding himself with scum balls and walking the line of legality himself made easy-pickings for a crew appointed to project onto Trump what they themselves had been doing, and to taint, smear and destroy an elected president, if nothing more than to show that they have the power now to do it.

The more I muse on this, the more I am convinced we have already truly lost the Republic in a velvet coup.   Few to none of us have woken up to that reality yet, but we're beginning to see the signs of the fact that it was accomplished right under our noses.

Nothing good will come from here on out.   

And no, Trump is not going to be able to save himself much less the country as time goes on.  Unless he bows down and becomes a Champion for the Left once the Republicans lose the House.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #51 on: August 21, 2018, 07:57:14 pm »
   Trump was scheduled to be on the Oscar winning show Fox & Friends Thursday, wonder if he will cancel?

Why the hell would he cancel?  The President is right at this moment holding a rally in WV to a packed house in support ot the Republican candidate for Senate.

And the crowd loves him.


Online corbe

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #52 on: August 21, 2018, 08:01:31 pm »
   Of course you're right, @Right_in_Virginia why cancel when the toughest question is gonna be 'How do you pick out your Ties each morning'?
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #53 on: August 21, 2018, 08:08:55 pm »
You know, the more I think about all this garbage, the less I think it is directly due to Trump (Only the BEST people), and more because Hillary did not win in order to cover up and bury  all the shit she and Obama had been doing with impunity.

That ANYONE would let the public think there was going to be a swamp-draining, even if it was all bullshit - made the risk of exposure to all the corrupt crap the Clintons and Obama and the Democrats and the Republican Party leadership were engaged in - out in the sunshine.  And the "Deep State" was not going to risk it.

So - like good Marxists do - Projection of what they themselves had been doing upon Trump.  Had it been Cruz - the same garbage would have been attempted.  However, Trump's habit of surrounding himself with scum balls and walking the line of legality himself made easy-pickings for a crew appointed to project onto Trump what they themselves had been doing, and to taint, smear and destroy an elected president, if nothing more than to show that they have the power now to do it.

The more I muse on this, the more I am convinced we have already truly lost the Republic in a velvet coup.   Few to none of us have woken up to that reality yet, but we're beginning to see the signs of the fact that it was accomplished right under our noses.

Nothing good will come from here on out.   

And no, Trump is not going to be able to save himself much less the country as time goes on.  Unless he bows down and becomes a Champion for the Left once the Republicans lose the House.

That's why Trump had to lay bare the Clinton foundation and all its tentacles within the DOJ and FBI from the start. Had he done that they'd be stuck scrambling trying to stay out of prison without time and the resources to be on an effective offensive.

It is also why someone with so much obvious baggage shouldn't have been elected for the job in the first place. It was a self defeating choice.

Online Free Vulcan

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #54 on: August 21, 2018, 08:26:38 pm »
Dems have pulled this crap and have gotten next to nothing, or not even investigated and arrested.

Total miscarriage of justice.
The Republic is lost.

Offline INVAR

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #55 on: August 21, 2018, 09:12:45 pm »
That's why Trump had to lay bare the Clinton foundation and all its tentacles within the DOJ and FBI from the start. Had he done that they'd be stuck scrambling trying to stay out of prison without time and the resources to be on an effective offensive.

It is also why someone with so much obvious baggage shouldn't have been elected for the job in the first place. It was a self defeating choice.

I still contend Trump was Hildabeast's stalking horse that refused to go down in the 10th Round and let Hillary get the crown.

I think we were all being played and Trump's egotistic narcissism got in the way.

The failsafes had to then be implemented to ensure that what they had been doing for years if not decades could never hurt them - because all of Washington DC was running on it, enabling it or looking the other way to permit it.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 09:13:29 pm by INVAR »
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #56 on: August 21, 2018, 09:20:30 pm »
I still contend Trump was Hildabeast's stalking horse that refused to go down in the 10th Round and let Hillary get the crown.

I think we were all being played and Trump's egotistic narcissism got in the way.

The failsafes had to then be implemented to ensure that what they had been doing for years if not decades could never hurt them - because all of Washington DC was running on it, enabling it or looking the other way to permit it.

Says the High Priest of the idiocracy wing of political strategic thinking.  :laugh:



« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 09:22:58 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline INVAR

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #57 on: August 21, 2018, 09:25:53 pm »
Says the High Priest of the idiocracy wing of political strategic thinking.  :laugh:

You're just Trump's female dog in word and deed.   At least I have a nice title of ridicule you have bestowed.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline catfish1957

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #58 on: August 21, 2018, 09:28:44 pm »
You're just Trump's female dog in word and deed.   At least I have a nice title of ridicule you have bestowed.
:silly:
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #59 on: August 21, 2018, 09:33:53 pm »
You're just Trump's female dog in word and deed.   At least I have a nice title of ridicule you have bestowed.

I now understand why Jesus called the Pharisees vipers.  Enjoy this title, too, oh man of God.


« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 09:35:53 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline catfish1957

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #60 on: August 21, 2018, 09:34:27 pm »
Where is all this Russian collusion Stupid Bobby was supposed to be ferreting out? These convictions are a laundry list of bush league bullshit.
guilty of 5 tax fraud charges (fake filings) , 1 charge of hiding foreign bank accounts, and 2 counts of bank fraud.

Bush League huh?  Yeah, that's about what I expected from you.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline catfish1957

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #61 on: August 21, 2018, 09:37:20 pm »
Ain't life grand.

Man, oh, Manafort, things could get real ugly.

Yep, what's the bet that Mr. Manfort is getting a bright light on his person about now......
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #62 on: August 21, 2018, 09:41:03 pm »
Yep, what's the bet that Mr. Manfort is getting a bright light on his person about now......
... and General Flynn.
Mueller asked for his sentencing hearing be pushed back until September 17th.

Online corbe

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #63 on: August 21, 2018, 09:41:29 pm »
   Seems the President keeps talking about how little time Manafort spent with the Campaign, Is this the 'Coffee Boy' defense, again?   That didn't work for Papadopoulos.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline catfish1957

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #64 on: August 21, 2018, 09:58:40 pm »
... and General Flynn.
Mueller asked for his sentencing hearing be pushed back until September 17th.

Crap.  I just read (found out) that Cohen flipped, and implicated Trump on bimbo payouts.....

Not the Donalds day.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #65 on: August 21, 2018, 10:03:57 pm »
Crap.  I just read (found out) that Cohen flipped, and implicated Trump on bimbo payouts.....

Not the Donalds day.

No, add that Representatives Duncan Hunter and Chris Collins were indicted today.
They were 2 of the first Congressmen to endorse Trump.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #66 on: August 21, 2018, 10:08:38 pm »
Yep, what's the bet that Mr. Manfort is getting a bright light on his person about now......

Wait... They have tanning booths in solitary?

Offline catfish1957

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #67 on: August 21, 2018, 10:11:44 pm »
Wait... They have tanning booths in solitary?

Add the fact, that Shooter might be missing a few tee times.

I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline INVAR

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #68 on: August 21, 2018, 10:18:12 pm »
I now understand why Jesus called the Pharisees vipers.

Yes.  He called things what they were and did not mince words about it, despite the Westernized whitewash.

I do the same.

<NOPE>
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 08:21:42 am by MOD3 »
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #69 on: August 21, 2018, 10:57:18 pm »
I'm starting to automatically tune out the phrase "One on of the worst days of the history of the Trump Administration..."  I don't want 6 more years of this.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #70 on: August 21, 2018, 11:04:12 pm »
Shhhhh!  I think I hear your master whistling for you... he needs you to do that spin trick you do so well.

<NOPE>
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 08:22:05 am by MOD3 »

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #71 on: August 21, 2018, 11:17:16 pm »
<NOPE>

Sex?  I thought he was talking about spin, as in putting a positive spin on news that really isn't that good.  I don't think @INVAR is the one with the fixation on kinky sex.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 08:23:06 am by MOD3 »

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #72 on: August 21, 2018, 11:32:38 pm »
<NOPE>

I have a fantasy about making love on a $15,000 Ostrich coat.

« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 08:23:28 am by MOD3 »

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #73 on: August 21, 2018, 11:33:33 pm »
Guess again @RoosGirl

Okay, you got me.  What does a dog trick have to do with sex?

Online DB

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #74 on: August 22, 2018, 12:46:23 am »
Says the High Priest of the idiocracy wing of political strategic thinking.  :laugh:

Trump said there was a phone call between Bill and him just before he announced his run.

My guess from the beginning is Bill Clinton talked him into it. Clinton figured that Trump would turn the GOP primary into a circus damaging all the candidates and he was right. What he underestimated was just how much Hillary was disliked even by his own party.

What do you think they talk about @Right_in_Virginia,  grand kids?

Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #75 on: August 22, 2018, 12:53:29 am »
Trump said there was a phone call between Bill and him just before he announced his run.

My guess from the beginning is Bill Clinton talked him into it. Clinton figured that Trump would turn the GOP primary into a circus damaging all the candidates and he was right. What he underestimated was just how much Hillary was disliked even by his own party.

What do you think they talk about @Right_in_Virginia,  grand kids?

There are photos of the two of them on a golf course not long before he announced, as well.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #76 on: August 22, 2018, 03:01:42 am »
! [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkE0z3MDWr0#]! No longer available[/url]



Who is not going to prison?  Hillary Clinton.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 03:05:34 am by Once-Ler »

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #77 on: August 22, 2018, 07:40:36 am »
Trump said there was a phone call between Bill and him just before he announced his run.

My guess from the beginning is Bill Clinton talked him into it. Clinton figured that Trump would turn the GOP primary into a circus damaging all the candidates and he was right. What he underestimated was just how much Hillary was disliked even by his own party.

What do you think they talk about @Right_in_Virginia,  grand kids? 


Sorry dear.  I don't give a damn about your guesses.  I know their track record.   :tongue2:



« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 07:43:09 am by Right_in_Virginia »

Online Bigun

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #78 on: August 22, 2018, 10:13:43 am »
That's why Trump had to lay bare the Clinton foundation and all its tentacles within the DOJ and FBI from the start. Had he done that they'd be stuck scrambling trying to stay out of prison without time and the resources to be on an effective offensive.

It is also why someone with so much obvious baggage shouldn't have been elected for the job in the first place. It was a self defeating choice.

@DB

I agree entirely that we could have made a much better choice but we didn't and Trump is now President of the United States. What do you suggest we do?
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline INVAR

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #79 on: August 22, 2018, 11:47:02 am »
@DB

I agree entirely that we could have made a much better choice but we didn't and Trump is now President of the United States. What do you suggest we do?

Nothing we can do, except suffer the idiocies, imbecilities, stupidity and whatever accidental good things such a regime will cause us.


Same as we did under Obama.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline skeeter

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #80 on: August 22, 2018, 11:49:55 am »
@DB

I agree entirely that we could have made a much better choice but we didn't and Trump is now President of the United States. What do you suggest we do?

Let the finger-waggers have their day.

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #81 on: August 22, 2018, 12:36:01 pm »
@DB

I agree entirely that we could have made a much better choice but we didn't and Trump is now President of the United States. What do you suggest we do?

Elect more honest politicians?  (can't hear over the roar of laughter at that one)

No, seriously.   We're faced with the choice between globalist "moral" men like Romney the RINO.... or immoral folks like Trump.   Which type would do less damage to our nation in the long run?  That's the question we all must ask and answer come election day.
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline INVAR

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #82 on: August 22, 2018, 01:14:54 pm »
Elect more honest politicians?  (can't hear over the roar of laughter at that one)

No, seriously.   We're faced with the choice between globalist "moral" men like Romney the RINO.... or immoral folks like Trump.   Which type would do less damage to our nation in the long run?  That's the question we all must ask and answer come election day.

We've gone down Rome's path to decline and fall.  We will continue to choose increasingly corrupt and militantly evil people to rule us, the louder and more direct incitements against each 'domestic enemy' will swing us wide from one end of violent ideological extremism to another as we continue to spend ourselves into oblivion.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Sanguine

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #83 on: August 22, 2018, 02:45:43 pm »
@DB

I agree entirely that we could have made a much better choice but we didn't and Trump is now President of the United States. What do you suggest we do?

I want to hear the answer to that one, @Bigun.  And, I'm betting you don't get even one applicable, practical, useful answer.

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #84 on: August 22, 2018, 03:00:22 pm »
@DB

I agree entirely that we could have made a much better choice but we didn't and Trump is now President of the United States. What do you suggest we do?

 ***hair on fire

Offline Sanguine

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #86 on: August 22, 2018, 03:22:51 pm »
I want to hear the answer to that one, @Bigun.  And, I'm betting you don't get even one applicable, practical, useful answer.

@Bigun @Sanguine

It is pretty simple really. First, have the courage to vote for the best candidate that shares your principles. And don't get weak kneed voting in fear for "the one who can win". When you always give Republicans your vote they can offer anyone they please because they're "the lesser evil" and they know you'll vote for them anyway. You then always end up with the lesser evil, maybe. Never the better candidate.

Nature has a simple but hard rule. You reward something you get more of it. You punish something you get less of it.

Two points there. When you reward Republicans for crappy candidates you get more of them. Until people start to have the courage to stop rewarding bad behavior in fear of the worse behavior you will never rid yourself of it.

When you reward a lying cheating person winning the Presidency, you get more lying and cheating. How he got there matters. To overlook that and now say "he's doing good things" as some sort of justification is the ends justifies the means thinking and corrupts everything it touches. Then it becomes where do you draw the line. A "little" lying and cheating for a good cause always grows to a little more... Like socialism... It's poison. Obviously for many the line is he's our thug trashing our enemies so that's a-okay.

And as far as the "good things" he's doing, they pale compared to the deficit spending and total corruption of the DOJ and FBI he supposedly heads. He sold you lies during the election and now that he can't deliver them - big shock - you excuse him and say he's not king, etc...

Call it what it is.

That will make a difference in time.


Online DB

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #87 on: August 22, 2018, 03:23:31 pm »
I want to hear the answer to that one, @Bigun.  And, I'm betting you don't get even one applicable, practical, useful answer.

How much do you want to bet?

Offline Sanguine

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #88 on: August 22, 2018, 03:27:23 pm »
@Bigun @Sanguine

It is pretty simple really. First, have the courage to vote for the best candidate that shares your principles. And don't get weak kneed voting in fear for "the one who can win". When you always give Republicans your vote they can offer anyone they please because they're "the lesser evil" and they know you'll vote for them anyway. You then always end up with the lesser evil, maybe. Never the better candidate.

Nature has a simple but hard rule. You reward something you get more of it. You punish something you get less of it.

Two points there. When you reward Republicans for crappy candidates you get more of them. Until people start to have the courage to stop rewarding bad behavior in fear of the worse behavior you will never rid yourself of it.

When you reward a lying cheating person winning the Presidency, you get more lying and cheating. How he got there matters. To overlook that and now say "he's doing good things" as some sort of justification is the ends justifies the means thinking and corrupts everything it touches. Then it becomes where do you draw the line. A "little" lying and cheating for a good cause always grows to a little more... Like socialism... It's poison. Obviously for many the line is he's our thug trashing our enemies so that's a-okay.

And as far as the "good things" he's doing, they pale compared to the deficit spending and total corruption of the DOJ and FBI he supposedly heads. He sold you lies during the election and now that he can't deliver them - big shock - you excuse him and say he's not king, etc...

Call it what it is.

That will make a difference in time.


DB, good answer, thank you.  Not trying to speak for @Bigun here, but the part that frustrates me about this type of discussion is that, all you say is true, and given time and the participation of a significant number of other people, some of what we want could come about.  But, in the here and now, we have Trump, and the only vote and actions we can be certain of is our own.  Trump is what we have to work with, like it or not. 

Online DB

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #89 on: August 22, 2018, 04:15:07 pm »

DB, good answer, thank you.  Not trying to speak for @Bigun here, but the part that frustrates me about this type of discussion is that, all you say is true, and given time and the participation of a significant number of other people, some of what we want could come about.  But, in the here and now, we have Trump, and the only vote and actions we can be certain of is our own.  Trump is what we have to work with, like it or not.

The die is set with Trump. That particular wreck has already happened. It will just take some time to fully unfold. How can the GOP credibly push family values again after this President? Or any sort of personal integrity or decorum? The issues with Trump are fundamental to his character. The only thing that can be done, or at least attempted, is contain the damage. The only way to do that is not corrupt yourself and others to excuse what it is. Then hopefully there's some credibility left, some fundamental principles, to support a decent candidate in the future. The last opportunity was squandered and can't be recovered.

My real fear with Trump all along is he would destroy what was left of the conservatives in the GOP and therefore the GOP itself. At least the GOP for a conservative. By the time Trump is done "conservative" is going to be a dirty word even on the right because it has been so debased.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 04:18:13 pm by DB »

Offline Wingnut

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #90 on: August 22, 2018, 04:33:37 pm »
DB your pearl clutching is admirable. 
You don’t become cooler with age but you do care progressively less about being cool, which is the only true way to actually be cool.

Online DB

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #91 on: August 22, 2018, 04:34:38 pm »
DB your pearl clutching is admirable.

The truth is the truth no matter what you want to call it.

By the way, where to exhibit any shock at what Trump is doing or saying? You know, pearl clutching...
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 04:36:32 pm by DB »

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #92 on: August 22, 2018, 05:02:12 pm »

DB, good answer, thank you.  Not trying to speak for @Bigun here, but the part that frustrates me about this type of discussion is that, all you say is true, and given time and the participation of a significant number of other people, some of what we want could come about.  But, in the here and now, we have Trump, and the only vote and actions we can be certain of is our own.  Trump is what we have to work with, like it or not.

@DB @Sanguine

You spoke for me pretty well except for the fact that I find DB's reply completely non responsive to the question I asked.  I have never yet voted for Trump and refuse to reward anyone who does not do in office what they promised me they would while campaigning yet Donald Trump still IS the president.   What do you suggest I do DB?   

My current US Senators are Ted Cruz and John Cornyn.  I will definately vote for Cruz this year and likely won't do the same for Cornyn in two years.  My current congressman is Kevin Brady, who just happens to be Chairman of the House W&M Committee,  he will not be receiving my vote this fall under any condition because he has patronized and flat out lied to me once to often. 
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline musiclady

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #93 on: August 22, 2018, 05:13:20 pm »
The die is set with Trump. That particular wreck has already happened. It will just take some time to fully unfold. How can the GOP credibly push family values again after this President? Or any sort of personal integrity or decorum? The issues with Trump are fundamental to his character. The only thing that can be done, or at least attempted, is contain the damage. The only way to do that is not corrupt yourself and others to excuse what it is. Then hopefully there's some credibility left, some fundamental principles, to support a decent candidate in the future. The last opportunity was squandered and can't be recovered.

My real fear with Trump all along is he would destroy what was left of the conservatives in the GOP and therefore the GOP itself. At least the GOP for a conservative. By the time Trump is done "conservative" is going to be a dirty word even on the right because it has been so debased.

You have spoken for many of us here, @DB.  Thank you.

No matter who mocks you for sticking to principles and values it is the right thing to do.

For as long as I have been alive, I have been proud to be a Republican; from Ike, through Watergate and Nixon and even though I was always more conservative than our Republican Presidents, I never felt betrayed by them.  I cried when JFK won, and I was only 11 years old.  I watched every moment of the Republican convention where Goldwater was nominated, and proudly campaigned for him in the 9th grade.  I went door to door for Nixon in 68 as President of our college's Young Republican Club.  I despised Jimmy Carter, and felt like the sun came out with Ronald Reagan.  I also despised Bill Clinton and was thrilled when GWBush won (again knowing he was significantly less conservative than I), because I knew he would sanitize the White House.

In his second term, with a Republican Congress, I was in despair at the spending and overreach of government, but even in 08 and 12 I called myself a Republican, because in the trenches, there was only one party which stood for the moral values...."family values" that I consider so very important.  I hated "big government conservatism" (how about that oxymoron?), but didn't get rid of my party label.  I still had decency, dignity and morality to cling to, because the Republicans, though tainted with scandal, removed the dead wood.  The Democrat party was the party that elevated degradation and praised immorality.

That ended in 2016.  All the doubts I had about being a Republican came to a boil and I realized there was absolutely no hope in reviving the party.

I, like you, wonder how dirty a word "conservative" has become, and will become under Trump.  He has already given the left so much legitimate ammunition that I fear we can never recover.

I know I will be mocked for this post, but I just wanted to thank you for continuing to say what a lot of (former) Republicans feel.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #94 on: August 22, 2018, 05:18:12 pm »

DB, good answer, thank you.  Not trying to speak for @Bigun here, but the part that frustrates me about this type of discussion is that, all you say is true, and given time and the participation of a significant number of other people, some of what we want could come about.  But, in the here and now, we have Trump, and the only vote and actions we can be certain of is our own.  Trump is what we have to work with, like it or not.

Sometimes it's better not to "work with" something that is completely corrupt.

I differ with the statement that "WE" have Trump.  There is no party, nor candidate in 2020 at this point, who represents me in the least.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Online Bigun

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #95 on: August 22, 2018, 05:23:08 pm »
There is no party, nor candidate in 2020 at this point, who represents me in the least.

@musiclady

Agree with that entirely.  What do you suggest we do?
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 05:23:50 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline XenaLee

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #96 on: August 22, 2018, 05:27:44 pm »
@musiclady

Agree with that entirely.  What do you suggest we do?

Considering what we know about the rabid, radical left and their intentions for this nation......

the only thing we can do at this point.  Hold our nose and vote straight GOP/against the left/Democrats.  I said I would not do that again, but dammit.... I cannot, in good conscience, not at least TRY to keep them from regaining power over us.
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

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Offline musiclady

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #97 on: August 22, 2018, 05:32:10 pm »
@musiclady

Agree with that entirely.  What do you suggest we do?

Try to rebuild the now defunct Republican party from scratch?  Or build a third party that actually stands for something?

You and I will probably be gone by the time there is any success, but the present two parties are not the answer.

If enough of us got on board to create a Conservative party that is viable, it could work.

But I now know that there aren't enough of us to do anything worth spit.  The Republican Party has made its choice, and that is to abandon every principle it once had (at least that it said it had).  The allure of power has destroyed it, and we just have to live with the consequences.

Right now, I have completely stopped supporting the party that I once was very active in, but still support the candidates that represent at least some of my values..... with my vote, not my money.

In our district, no Democrat has ever won, but in our special election, one came within a hairsbreadth of winning.

That is the Trump effect on this very Conservative district.  Energized Democrats and despair among Republicans.

It will take decades to recover........... if we ever do.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Online corbe

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #98 on: August 22, 2018, 05:46:14 pm »
   Great posts all @musiclady


   There is hope for a third party in America, IMHO.  Discounting it's eventual demise at the hands of the GOP the Tea Party was a truly 'Grassroots' idea that made a significant impact for 2 election cycles.  It can be done again.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

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Re: BREAKING>> VERDICT FOR MANAFORT ON 8 CHARGES NO DECISION ON 10 COUNTS
« Reply #99 on: August 22, 2018, 06:00:54 pm »
   Great posts all @musiclady


   There is hope for a third party in America, IMHO.  Discounting it's eventual demise at the hands of the GOP the Tea Party was a truly 'Grassroots' idea that made a significant impact for 2 election cycles.  It can be done again.

And in the time it takes to get that done, this once great republic becomes just another socialist hell hole on the face of the earth.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien