Author Topic: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights  (Read 29545 times)

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #450 on: July 03, 2018, 03:25:09 pm »

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Jazzy likes to paint the women in his scenarios as having no control over what happens in order to get pregnant too.  He never concedes to them any kind of personal responsibility at all.

@Sanguine is correct he does have a very low opinion of women.
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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #451 on: July 03, 2018, 03:25:10 pm »
I'm still pondering the "TRAGIC" situation of a woman who wants to wear a bikini on her Bahamas vacation and decides to kill her child for it.

It may not be a common motive for destroying the life of another human being, but it IS a motive of some.

This apologetic pretense for caring about women and "liberty" while defending (yes, defending) their harm and the lives of millions of innocent human beings is what is sickening.

The left has done a stellar job of brainwashing a gullible public in thinking that abortion is a good, and not an evil.

But it is the greatest evil in American history, and I believe we will pay dearly for allowing it to go on so long.

So you believe that the only motivation for an abortion is the ability to wear a bikini?  Seriously?

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #452 on: July 03, 2018, 03:25:44 pm »
Jazzy likes to paint the women in his scenarios as having no control over what happens in order to get pregnant too.  He never concedes to them any kind of personal responsibility at all.

@Sanguine is correct he does have a very low opinion of women.

He does nothing of the kind.

Offline musiclady

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #453 on: July 03, 2018, 03:26:17 pm »
@Jazzhead, you have a remarkably low opinion of women if you think that we need the option of maintaining our liberty by killing another human being who is the result of our own deliberate actions.  Wow.

Thank you for pointing that out.

The left has a despicably low opinion of women and their arguments in favor of abortion put it on full display.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

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Offline Emjay

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #454 on: July 03, 2018, 03:28:28 pm »
What you posted was a non sequitur, but I misunderstood its purpose.

My apology.

I hope you consider my "problem" solved.... 

@Emjay

That's okay.  Apparently you weren't the only one.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline jpsb

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #455 on: July 03, 2018, 03:30:43 pm »
That ship can only go so far before it is on its way back.

In 1859 Slavery was established law. Abolition would feed into.... Yadda, yadda, yadda.

It is never too late to do what is right, unless you are one of the 58,000,000 who will never get the chance to deal with their own moral dilemmas. I wonder how they would have voted?

Since all persons have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Congress needs to
define just what a person is. Just when does a person become a person? I would argue that
a person become a person when he/she becomes self aware (working brain).

Offline INVAR

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #456 on: July 03, 2018, 03:34:58 pm »
I think we should all just shut the hell up and let the Margaret Sanger genocide continue unabated!   The whole world will be better off!  /s

Before God wiped out His own people in Israel for this wickedness, the people considered it a morally righteous thing to toss their infants into the burning fires to the god Moloch.

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #457 on: July 03, 2018, 03:39:48 pm »
I am sick and tired of your virtue signaling.  Of course babies are precious,  but your statement was that by acknowledging the liberty of women I was "defending abortion",  which you insist is "murder".   

How is it "defending abortion" to suggest that lives be saved by persuasion?    How am I condoning "murder" by suggesting the Constitution permits women to choose and fulfill their own destinies?    Abortion will, I trust and believe, wither on the vine due to a combination of persuasion and support,  and the increasing availability of effective contraception that does not fail. 

NO WOMAN IN A PERFECT WORLD WANTS AN ABORTION.  The circumstances that compel women to abort are tragic,  and unique to the life of each woman. No money.  A dashed future.  Abandonment by parents or partner. Plain and simple fear.    There is no size fits all solution.   But hectoring those who advocate persuasion rather than coercion as "defending" the practice is obnoxious.   Yes, your attitude hardens hearts, because your fundamental argument is that people who don't agree with you are evil.  Did it ever occur to you that those who don't advocate criminalizing abortion are as troubled by the practice as you are?   Of course not - you're all about virtue signaling, not saving lives.
I would take issue with most of what you have said here. The short version is this: There were fewer abortions when clinics were not like a starbucks, walk in and go, and common as cat crap in a litter box.
There were fewer abortions when the procedure was illegal. It was not an option generally to even be considered.

As I have said, there is a time to choose. Before conception, generally the act leading to which is a consensual and conscious act which has a predictable possible outcome. Enough money is spent to ransom the royal families of the world multiple times to ensure that children are aware of this, commonly well before puberty.

When  abortion was not an option, that choice was made at the appropriate time. Even before Roe, the means to prevent the "need" for an abortion were in place: abstinence, the condom, the Pill, and IUDs were available, and even more methods since then have been developed. 'Moments of immoral or simply sexual abandon could still be had, without taking a significant chance that a life would be produced, and people desiring that 'freedom', used those methods--not all, but most.

One of the great whines in support of Obamacare was made by a Georgetown student (Sandra Fluke) so contraception would be available (as if it wasn't already).

Contraception": preventative measures, not the slaughter of the unborn, which is not prevention of pregnancy, but the termination of one established, (frankly, I view RU-486 as an abortion device also).
 
The time for choice is before a life is created: after that life has been created, the "choice" has already been made. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, counselor.

As for a perfect world, we don't live in one, so what any woman wants there is irrelevant. What we have is a world in which there are a host of means to prevent pregnancy, and in a "perfect" world, they'd be used, as they are in this imperfect one.

In a world without legal abortions, the emphasis was and would again be on prevention of inconvenient and 'unwanted' pregnancy--where it belongs, a choice made at the appropriate time, and not on 'mitigation' by murder.

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #458 on: July 03, 2018, 03:41:39 pm »
You have a remarkably low opinion of women if you think that they are so weak-willed and evil that they can only be constrained from abortion though threats of government compulsion and punishment.

Punishment?  Sounds like something Obama would say.

Allow me to clue you in.  The only compulsion here is a federal judiciary denying States the Constitutional right to establish their own laws.  The abortion argument isn't about punishing women.  It is about protecting and valuing life.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Offline musiclady

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #459 on: July 03, 2018, 03:44:34 pm »
That's okay.  Apparently you weren't the only one.

No problem.  It's easy to be confused when you just see black and white on a page.

I should have left it alone.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #460 on: July 03, 2018, 03:44:35 pm »
I would take issue with most of what you have said here. The short version is this: There were fewer abortions when clinics were not like a starbucks, walk in and go, and common as cat crap in a litter box.
There were fewer abortions when the procedure was illegal. It was not an option generally to even be considered.

As I have said, there is a time to choose. Before conception, generally the act leading to which is a consensual and conscious act which has a predictable possible outcome. Enough money is spent to ransom the royal families of the world multiple times to ensure that children are aware of this, commonly well before puberty.

When  abortion was not an option, that choice was made at the appropriate time. Even before Roe, the means to prevent the "need" for an abortion were in place: abstinence, the condom, the Pill, and IUDs were available, and even more methods since then have been developed. 'Moments of immoral or simply sexual abandon could still be had, without taking a significant chance that a life would be produced, and people desiring that 'freedom', used those methods--not all, but most.

One of the great whines in support of Obamacare was made by a Georgetown student (Sandra Fluke) so contraception would be available (as if it wasn't already).

Contraception": preventative measures, not the slaughter of the unborn, which is not prevention of pregnancy, but the termination of one established, (frankly, I view RU-486 as an abortion device also).
 
The time for choice is before a life is created: after that life has been created, the "choice" has already been made. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, counselor.

As for a perfect world, we don't live in one, so what any woman wants there is irrelevant. What we have is a world in which there are a host of means to prevent pregnancy, and in a "perfect" world, they'd be used, as they are in this imperfect one.

In a world without legal abortions, the emphasis was and would again be on prevention of inconvenient and 'unwanted' pregnancy--where it belongs, a choice made at the appropriate time, and not on 'mitigation' by murder.


The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #461 on: July 03, 2018, 03:45:20 pm »

The time for choice is before a life is created: after that life has been created, the "choice" has already been made.


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T H I S
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline musiclady

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #462 on: July 03, 2018, 03:45:36 pm »
So you believe that the only motivation for an abortion is the ability to wear a bikini?  Seriously?

So you think you can read?  Seriously??

Oy.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #463 on: July 03, 2018, 03:47:06 pm »
Since all persons have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Congress needs to
define just what a person is. Just when does a person become a person? I would argue that
a person become a person when he/she becomes self aware (working brain).
At the point where the DNA of the donors combines, you have a person, unique, developing, and once that embryo is implanted in the uterine wall, on the way.

If we used the 'self aware/working brain' definition to define life, it'd be open season on liberals.
 
There is also the difficulty of defining how to know that person is self aware when they are lacking the language skills to express it, a problem that can extend beyond infancy and reach to accident victims (Terry Schiavo, for instance) and the elderly. We only know when they are capable of communicating that they feel pain, etc. We have no idea when that actually starts, only when we can interpret a reaction. Should our inability to communicate be a potential death sentence? Because that opens up a lot of other kettles of worms, too.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #464 on: July 03, 2018, 03:48:37 pm »
At the point where the DNA of the donors combines, you have a person, unique, developing, and once that embryo is implanted in the uterine wall, on the way.


Like I pointed out yesterday...the heartbeat begins at 3-4 weeks.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #465 on: July 03, 2018, 03:54:44 pm »
At the point where the DNA of the donors combines, you have a person, unique, developing, and once that embryo is implanted in the uterine wall, on the way.

Once you define things that way, now you have a separate "person" imposing himself on another person by emplanting against the woman's will.

A kettle of worms, indeed.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #466 on: July 03, 2018, 04:02:37 pm »
You have a remarkably low opinion of women if you think that they are so weak-willed and evil that they can only be constrained from abortion though threats of government compulsion and punishment.

No, that doesn't work, O.

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #467 on: July 03, 2018, 04:10:49 pm »
Once you define things that way, now you have a separate "person" imposing himself on another person by emplanting against the woman's will.

A kettle of worms, indeed.
Well, if you want to go there, you would be blaming her biology for not rejecting the embryo, (which has a component of her DNA). You could blame the little wigglers that imposed upon the egg, too. If it was a question of will, that should have worked, too, right?

The time for willpower ended at the gate, so to speak. --And yes, it takes two to tangle.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 04:11:25 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #468 on: July 03, 2018, 04:14:27 pm »
At the point where the DNA of the donors combines, you have a person, unique, developing, and once that embryo is implanted in the uterine wall, on the way.

If we used the 'self aware/working brain' definition to define life, it'd be open season on liberals.
 
There is also the difficulty of defining how to know that person is self aware when they are lacking the language skills to express it, a problem that can extend beyond infancy and reach to accident victims (Terry Schiavo, for instance) and the elderly. We only know when they are capable of communicating that they feel pain, etc. We have no idea when that actually starts, only when we can interpret a reaction. Should our inability to communicate be a potential death sentence? Because that opens up a lot of other kettles of worms, too.

I'm certainly open to other folks ideas of just when a person becomes a person. RvW is settled law
but what is not settled is when does a person get the protections afforded to persons in our
constitution. I suggest the answer to that question might open an avenue towards protecting
the unborn. I'd like to hear that doctors and science has to say.

Time for lunch, later all.

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #469 on: July 03, 2018, 04:15:34 pm »
No, that doesn't work, O.

I think I said something wayyyy upthread about "twisting words."  Irritating, isn't it?
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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #470 on: July 03, 2018, 04:22:45 pm »
Punishment?  Sounds like something Obama would say.

Allow me to clue you in.  The only compulsion here is a federal judiciary denying States the Constitutional right to establish their own laws.  The abortion argument isn't about punishing women.  It is about protecting and valuing life.

Liberty trumps the prerogative of the states establishing their own laws to deny liberty. 

Do you want the states to ban your right to own a gun?    Oh the horror - that's, that's UNCONSTITUTIONAL!

Well, yes it is.  And so would be your state telling your daughter she no longer has dominion over her own body.   
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Offline TomSea

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #471 on: July 03, 2018, 04:25:58 pm »
Do explain.

Ah, so you were so-self righteous about your signature about what Trump was caught saying on a hot mic, but no problem at all with tearing little girls apart in abortion. Another hypocrite.

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #472 on: July 03, 2018, 04:26:19 pm »
Once you define things that way, now you have a separate "person" imposing himself on another person by emplanting against the woman's will.

A kettle of worms, indeed.

Indeed, as a legal matter.  How can the State impose a duty of care without the person's express or implied consent?   I can accept that by allowing a pregnancy to continue to term a woman has assumed that duty of care.   But simply by reason of having sex?    That's, well, tyrannical.   
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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #473 on: July 03, 2018, 04:26:43 pm »
You have a remarkably low opinion of women if you think that they are so weak-willed and evil that they can only be constrained from abortion though threats of government compulsion and punishment.
No, that isn't the only constraint. We have laws to define boundaries for civilized behaviour in a lot of other areas of life, too. We still have door locks.

Making something widely available, even subsidized, is hardly a deterrent.

If a society wishes to deter behaviour, they make it evident that such is unacceptable, legally and morally. They don't parade for it to be free and widely available.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #474 on: July 03, 2018, 04:27:30 pm »
Liberty trumps the prerogative of the states establishing their own laws to deny liberty.

Please explain how abortion = liberty? 

Quote
Do you want the states to ban your right to own a gun?    Oh the horror - that's, that's UNCONSTITUTIONAL!

It is unconstitutional!  Thank you for finally admitting what's been clearly written in the U.S. Constitution for 229 years.

Quote
Well, yes it is.  And so would be your state telling your daughter she no longer has dominion over her own body.

No it wouldn't.  Because abortion on demand isn't a constitutional right.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 04:28:18 pm by txradioguy »
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!