Author Topic: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights  (Read 29584 times)

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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #250 on: July 02, 2018, 04:18:16 pm »
Either you advocate judicial activism or you don't.    If you support judicial activism re the causes and rights you favor, and decry judicial activism re the causes and rights you don't, then you're a hypocrite. 

Yes, Roe was an example of judicial activism that extended rights where none had clearly existed before.  BUT SO WAS HELLER.  Now forget for a moment whether you agreed or disagreed with those cases when they were decided.   The reality is that millions now rely on the Heller decision which found an individual RKBA.  Millions now rely on Roe which found a woman's individual right to decide for herself whether to bear a child. 

A conservative jurist respects precedent and allows BOTH those decisions to stand because so many rely on them.   

Reliance  in the constitutional context is different than that, and frankly, it doesn't apply to either Roe or Heller.

Reliance that may justify stare decisis exists when you have a decision that upon which other laws/practices are based, that would be disrupted if you overruled that decision.  And the disruption has to be of a kind different from if the decision had never been rendered at all.  An example of that would be reversing decisions like National Labor Relations Board v. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation, and essentially eliminating more than 20,000 pages of regulations overnight -- regulations upon which Congress and businesses have relied for decades.  There, you could say that Congress didn't make laws because it relied on the existence of those regulations, and you'd end up with a chaos that nobody would have intended.

Roe and Heller both could be reversed without impacting that at all because they are singular issues that aren't tied to any others.  The only "reliance" in Roe would be for women who became pregnant while it was valid law, under the expectation that they could get an abortion.  But you could address that easily by saying in the reversal that state anti-abortion laws cannot apply to someone who is already pregnant.  If you only apply it to pregnancies that occur after you toss Roe, reliance isn't an issue.  Because anyone who has not yet gotten pregnant will know the law has changed, and therefore won't rely on it in making their decisions.

And the same is really true for Heller.  Nobody really changed their behavior in reliance on Heller in a way that could not be remedied.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 04:30:34 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #251 on: July 02, 2018, 04:31:56 pm »
Roe and Heller both could be reversed without impacting that at all because they are singular issues that aren't tied to any others.  The only "reliance" in Roe would be for women who became pregnant while it was valid law, under the expectation that they could get an abortion.  But you could address that easily by saying in the reversal that state anti-abortion laws cannot apply to someone who is already pregnant.  If you only apply it to pregnancies that occur after you toss Roe, reliance isn't an issue.


That's a rather crabbed view of "reliance".   It is not just women who are pregnant who "rely" on the liberty confirmed by Roe.  Liberty includes the ability to order one's life knowing that the choices I make in the future, should I become pregnant,  are not circumscribed by the State.  So too the individual RKBA found by Heller - that decision's confirmation of individual liberty is valuable not only to current gunowners who keep guns unrelated to any militia,  but to any American concerned that his right to individual self-defense be Constitutionally protected.

A deprivation of liberty is not just an affront to those currently exercising that liberty.   
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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #252 on: July 02, 2018, 04:43:14 pm »
Don't look now... but.....

apparently, the trolling continues today. 

Offhand, I'd have to say the left is acting like a disturbed hornet's nest.  (kicked-in antbed?)  lolol

The very thought of having yet another Scalia-type justice nominated has driven them quite out of their minds (I know, I know.... how can you tell).

My wife brought this up with me yesterday.   I told her that they reminded me of a bunch of 13 year old girls in 7th grade.   She laughed and agreed.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #253 on: July 02, 2018, 05:01:33 pm »
That's a rather crabbed view of "reliance".   It is not just women who are pregnant who "rely" on the liberty confirmed by Roe.  Liberty includes the ability to order one's life knowing that the choices I make in the future, should I become pregnant,  are not circumscribed by the State.  So too the individual RKBA found by Heller - that decision's confirmation of individual liberty is valuable not only to current gunowners who keep guns unrelated to any militia,  but to any American concerned that his right to individual self-defense be Constitutionally protected.

A deprivation of liberty is not just an affront to those currently exercising that liberty.
I doubt the 50 million plus who were denied life would see overturning overturning Roe as a "deprivation of liberty", only the selfish bitches who murdered them.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #254 on: July 02, 2018, 05:39:44 pm »
I doubt the 50 million plus who were denied life would see overturning overturning Roe as a "deprivation of liberty", only the selfish bitches who murdered them.

 *****rollingeyes*****
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #255 on: July 02, 2018, 05:49:32 pm »
*****rollingeyes*****
At least you CAN roll your little virtual eyes at my comment, unlike the ones who never got the chance. Who knows, maybe some day someone will decide certain other groups of people are
just lumps of tissue', too.

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #256 on: July 02, 2018, 05:51:22 pm »
I doubt the 50 million plus who were denied life would see overturning overturning Roe as a "deprivation of liberty", only the selfish bitches who murdered them.


Dog-whistle. 

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #257 on: July 02, 2018, 05:52:30 pm »
Dog-whistle.
Go sit on  a writ, counselor.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #258 on: July 02, 2018, 05:53:48 pm »
Go sit on  a writ, counselor.


Get off your religious crusade, <NOPE>

« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 06:50:58 pm by Mod5 »

Offline XenaLee

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #259 on: July 02, 2018, 06:18:12 pm »
My wife brought this up with me yesterday.   I told her that they reminded me of a bunch of 13 year old girls in 7th grade.   She laughed and agreed.

13 year old "mean girls" (they obviously love the Lohan).....lololol!
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #260 on: July 02, 2018, 06:21:30 pm »
I doubt the 50 million plus who were denied life would see overturning overturning Roe as a "deprivation of liberty", only the selfish bitches who murdered them.

Funny (or not so funny) how weeping over the agonizing deaths of millions of innocent children is looked upon by the left as nothing more than religious bigotry.

There is no "right" in the Constitution to murder children.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

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Offline Emjay

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #261 on: July 02, 2018, 06:22:15 pm »
At least you CAN roll your little virtual eyes at my comment, unlike the ones who never got the chance. Who knows, maybe some day someone will decide certain other groups of people are
just lumps of tissue', too.

Well, yeah, I'm sure there are people who would love to deny existence to the low intelligence people who support Trump.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline musiclady

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #262 on: July 02, 2018, 06:24:49 pm »
Well, yeah, I'm sure there are people who would love to deny existence to the low intelligence people who support Trump.

Attempt to hijack the thread with this nonsequitur?   :shrug:
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #263 on: July 02, 2018, 06:26:34 pm »
Quote
A conservative jurist respects precedent and allows BOTH those decisions to stand because so many rely on them.

A Conservative jurist rejects Roe because it created a right from whole cloth that wasn't there in the Constitution in any section clause or sub paragraph.


And it's laughable that you look at the Heller decision as some kind of judicial activism.  Because it's not.  To believe that Heller is judicial activism is to believe the Second Amendment is as well.


But then again <NOPE> like yourself don't care one iota for the Constitution.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 06:52:35 pm by Mod5 »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #264 on: July 02, 2018, 06:28:11 pm »
Get off your religious crusade, <NOPE> .
Did I mention religion? Why no. No, I didn't.

If you are worth a cheap cheeseburger as an attorney, you should recognize this quote:
(Hint: While not from the Constitution, it is from one of the seminal documents in the founding of this nation, and a clear statement of the intent of the Founders)

Quote
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

Because even then, people recognized that all else is moot if you don't live to enjoy it.



Get off your anti-American crusade, lawyer.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 06:53:01 pm by Mod5 »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #265 on: July 02, 2018, 06:28:29 pm »
Attempt to hijack the thread with this nonsequitur?   :shrug:

@musiclady more like a purposeful attempt to a) derail the thread and b) play the victim card when someone told her to shut up.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #266 on: July 02, 2018, 06:34:23 pm »
@musiclady more like a purposeful attempt to a) derail the thread and b) play the victim card when someone told her to shut up.

Sometimes the most beautiful words around:

Quote
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.

I'm not a big fan of that, but sometimes I have to in order to keep from being goaded into doing something I'll regret later.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #267 on: July 02, 2018, 06:38:56 pm »
Sometimes the most beautiful words around:

I'm not a big fan of that, but sometimes I have to in order to keep from being goaded into doing something I'll regret later.

Yes they are.  Which is why it's confusing because it was my understanding we were all on ignore.  :shrug:
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #268 on: July 02, 2018, 06:42:02 pm »
Sometimes the most beautiful words around:

I'm not a big fan of that, but sometimes I have to in order to keep from being goaded into doing something I'll regret later.

I have exactly two people in that category and there they shall remain.  Can't stand those who claim to be what they continue to prove they are not.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #269 on: July 02, 2018, 06:42:58 pm »
A Conservative jurist rejects Roe because it created a right from whole cloth that wasn't there in the Constitution in any section clause or sub paragraph.


And it's laughable that you look at the Heller decision as some kind of judicial activism.  Because it's not.  To believe that Heller is judicial activism is to believe the Second Amendment is as well.

It is laughable to see you try to justify your hypocrisy.   You support judicial activism when it suits you, decry it when it doesn't.   Of course Heller represents judicial activism - it holds 0f the first time in 200 years - that the 2A right is an individual right, notwithstanding the predicate clause.   Like Roe, it extends the liberty guaranteed by the Constitution.

Court decisions create precedents - ESPECIALLY when they expand the realm of personal liberty.    Whether you support or decry them, both Heller and Roe are relied on by millions in the ordering of their lives.  It is the role of the peoples' elected representatives to take such liberties away, not the courts.     
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #270 on: July 02, 2018, 06:47:30 pm »
It is laughable to see you try to justify your hypocrisy.   You support judicial activism when it suits you, decry it when it doesn't.   Of course Heller represents judicial activism - it holds 0f the first time in 200 years - that the 2A right is an individual right, notwithstanding the predicate clause.   Like Roe, it extends the liberty guaranteed by the Constitution.

Court decisions create precedents - ESPECIALLY when they expand the realm of personal liberty.    Whether you support or decry them, both Heller and Roe are relied on by millions in the ordering of their lives.  It is the role of the peoples' elected representatives to take such liberties away, not the courts.   
The predicate clause of the second merely states why it is imperative for the people to remain armed and that Right to remain uninfringed. That it was not ruled on for 200 years is not a creation of a right which was already present, but the first time that politicians and the like had been so fricking stupid as to assume they could run roughshod over that right. Had it been so infringed at an earlier date, perhaps the ruling would have antedated Heller, but it would have been the same because the Right exists.
Heller didn't create a "right" out of whole cloth like Roe (to murder your get), but affirmed a Right which already existed.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #271 on: July 02, 2018, 06:48:29 pm »
It is laughable to see you try to justify your hypocrisy.   You support judicial activism when it suits you, decry it when it doesn't.   Of course Heller represents judicial activism - it holds 0f the first time in 200 years - that the 2A right is an individual right, notwithstanding the predicate clause.   Like Roe, it extends the liberty guaranteed by the Constitution.

Court decisions create precedents - ESPECIALLY when they expand the realm of personal liberty.    Whether you support or decry them, both Heller and Roe are relied on by millions in the ordering of their lives.  It is the role of the peoples' elected representatives to take such liberties away, not the courts.   

Court opinions are just that and nothing else.  Our system of government nowhere grants judges the power to create law.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #272 on: July 02, 2018, 06:49:49 pm »
At least you CAN roll your little virtual eyes at my comment, unlike the ones who never got the chance. Who knows, maybe some day someone will decide certain other groups of people are
just lumps of tissue', too.

It is the woman's choice, and hers alone, to decide whether it is a life or a lump of tissue.  Period. Not yours. Not your religion's. Not the government's. 

That is the essence of liberty and self-determination.   A pre-viable fetus has no legal rights whatsoever vis a vis the mother.     
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #273 on: July 02, 2018, 06:51:33 pm »
Court opinions are just that and nothing else.  Our system of government nowhere grants judges the power to create law.

Both the Heller and Roe decisions were within the lawful authority of the Court. 
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Re: Collins: Won’t Support SCOTUS Pick Hostile To Abortion Rights
« Reply #274 on: July 02, 2018, 06:53:53 pm »
It is laughable to see you try to justify your hypocrisy.   You support judicial activism when it suits you, decry it when it doesn't.   Of course Heller represents judicial activism - it holds 0f the first time in 200 years - that the 2A right is an individual right, notwithstanding the predicate clause.   Like Roe, it extends the liberty guaranteed by the Constitution.

Court decisions create precedents - ESPECIALLY when they expand the realm of personal liberty.    Whether you support or decry them, both Heller and Roe are relied on by millions in the ordering of their lives.  It is the role of the peoples' elected representatives to take such liberties away, not the courts.   

There is no hypocrisy in what I say or what I believe.

Roe is pure politics handed down from the bench plain and simple.

It is the very definition of judicial activism.

And maybe it's because you constantly cite the dissent...the losing side if you will...in Heller that you see it as judical activism instead of what it really is... reaffirmation of the 2nd Amendment and the people's right to keep and bear arms.

There is no judicial activism anywhere in confirming what is plainly written in the Second Amendment.

The only people who do that are Progressives that believe that Social expediency, rather than natural right, is thus to determine the sphere of individual freedom of action.

You reject natural rights like what are outlined in the Declaration and the Constitution specifically the Bill of Rights because you believe people need an overarching all powerful State to dictate our rights to us based on the prevailing social and political winds of the time.

It's how you can justify your support of abortion but lament the children of illegals being separated. 

It's why you can call any Christian on TBR a bigot and tirn around and defend Islam the way you do.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 06:55:17 pm by txradioguy »
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!