Pyongyang officials go to Beijing to study and learn from China's economic reforms

[SirLinksALot]

SOURCE: The Korea Joongang Daily

http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=3048193

by Sarah Kim, Yeh Young-June and Shin Kyung-Jin


A delegation of Workers’ Party Central Committee senior officials traveled from Pyongyang to Beijing Monday to learn from China’s economic reforms. Their visit follows diplomatic warming between North Korea and China following recent back-to-back summits by their leaders

The North’s state-run Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) reported on Tuesday that Pak Thae-song, a vice chairman of the Central Committee, led the delegation to China for a friendly visit without further elaborating.

The delegation was greeted by a Chinese Communist Party official and North Korea’s ambassador to China upon arrival at the Beijing International Airport Monday. They headed to Diaoyutai State Guesthouse, where foreign dignitaries often stay. They also visited Zhongguancun in Beijing, known to be “China’s Silicon Valley,” which North Korean leader Kim Jong-un visited in late March.

A source familiar with North Korea affairs said that “observing China’s socialist economic system and exchanging experience about ruling the state was an important goal of the Workers’ Party officials’ visit. They want to learn from China’s experience in maintaining a strong one-party Communist system while carrying out economic reform.”

Lu Kang, spokesman of the Chinese foreign ministry, confirmed in a briefing Tuesday that the delegation’s visit kicked off the previous day on the invitation of its Communist Party’s International Liaison Department. Lu added that the North Korean officials visited to “observe economy building and reform in China” and that the two parties also shared experiences on ruling the state.

The previous day, Lu said the two countries “maintain normal exchanges” but did not confirm the visit. North Korea is scheduled to hold a summit with the United States next month and, taking into consideration that the meeting goes well, appears to be eying the prospects of an easing of sanctions and steps to develop its economy.

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[Sanguine]

This is really beginning to sound like NK is planning on de-hermitizing.

[Oceander]

This is really beginning to sound like NK is planning on de-hermitizing.

To me it just sounds like more complicated political theatre by NK designed, ultimately, to extract money and goods from gullible western countries. 

[Sanguine]

To me it just sounds like more complicated political theatre by NK designed, ultimately, to extract money and goods from gullible western countries.

Yes, but I'm much more of an optimist than you are.

[edpc]

Yes, but I'm much more of an optimist than you are.

I would be too, if Kim wasn't still engaging in mass starvation, multi-generational imprisonment, assassination of relatives, and eliminating political opponents with artillery.

[ABX]

I would be too, if Kim wasn't still engaging in mass starvation, multi-generational imprisonment, assassination of relatives, and eliminating political opponents with artillery.

And I still have yet to see anyone official mention who would be held account for North Korea's genocide and other atrocities. The attitude is almost we will forgive and forget everything they have done if they throw a few carrots our way. Hell, our President even thanked and praised Lil'Kim for freeing the three political prisoners the other day- the same person who imprisoned them in the first place and who is responsible for the death of an American citizen prisoner shortly before this.

That would have been a big win... all this administration had to do was not praise the dictator who imprisoned, tortured, and killed American citizens.. but nope... Luckily those comments were made at 3AM so very few here caught it.

[Sanguine]

@edpc and @AbaraXas - are you really saying that we, or whomever, should not engage in negotiations to either denuclearize NK or reunite the two Koreas until we have made the NK government somehow pay for atrocities committed over the last 100 years and continuing to date?  That we should not deal with the nuclear issue until Lil Kim promises not do bad stuff to his own people?  That we should discourage NK and SK talks until we....well, I don't know what.  Surely that's not what either of you are saying?

[ABX]

@edpc and @AbaraXas - are you really saying that we, or whomever, should not engage in negotiations to either denuclearize NK or reunite the two Koreas until we have made the NK government somehow pay for atrocities committed over the last 100 years and continuing to date?  That we should not deal with the nuclear issue until Lil Kim promises not do bad stuff to his own people?  That we should discourage NK and SK talks until we....well, I don't know what.  Surely that's not what either of you are saying?

How about if we have regime change as a condition of terms?  I'm not talking about 100 years, hell, the past 10 years Lil'Kim has violated pretty much every international law- including detaining, murdering, and torturing US Citizens.

This was not supposed to be part 2 of the Obama regime- playing footsie with dictators. 

[edpc]

@edpc and @AbaraXas - are you really saying that we, or whomever, should not engage in negotiations to either denuclearize NK or reunite the two Koreas until we have made the NK government somehow pay for atrocities committed over the last 100 years and continuing to date?  That we should not deal with the nuclear issue until Lil Kim promises not do bad stuff to his own people?  That we should discourage NK and SK talks until we....well, I don't know what.  Surely that's not what either of you are saying?

I’m saying we should not blow sunshine up Kim’s posterior by calling him ‘honorable,’ referring to him effusively and respectfully as ‘Chairman,’ and telling the world Kim was ‘excellent’ to the detainees.

[ABX]

I’m saying we should not blow sunshine up Kim’s posterior by calling him ‘honorable,’ referring to him effusively and respectfully as ‘Chairman,’ and telling the world Kim was ‘excellent’ to the detainees.

That rubbed me so wrong. I've avoided threads about the hostage release because of that (and I would be just called a 'hater' instead of celebrating the supposed victory). All he had to do was not praise Kim. Just not praise him... but nope.

#RememberOttoWarmbier

[Sanguine]

How about if we have regime change as a condition of terms?  I'm not talking about 100 years, hell, the past 10 years Lil'Kim has violated pretty much every international law- including detaining, murdering, and torturing US Citizens.

This was not supposed to be part 2 of the Obama regime- playing footsie with dictators.

Sure, we can go for regime change.  I don't want to see us commit the troops and money that that will require.  Is that what you are suggesting?

[Sanguine]

I’m saying we should not blow sunshine up Kim’s posterior by calling him ‘honorable,’ referring to him effusively and respectfully as ‘Chairman,’ and telling the world Kim was ‘excellent’ to the detainees.

It rubs me wrong too, but we can call him whatever we want after he gives up nukes.  You're suggesting we call him "ugly little fat man" during the negotiations?  Maybe some other name?

[ABX]

Sure, we can go for regime change.  I don't want to see us commit the troops and money that that will require.  Is that what you are suggesting?

EDPC's comment above this summed up a good start pretty well.

[Sanguine]

EDPC's comment above this summed up a good start pretty well.

OK, so I think we have decided that the three of us do not like calling Lil Kim nice things when he is obviously not a nice or honorable man.

I'm hoping the negotiations continue and NK becomes denuclearized.  We can deal with the next problem at that point.

[ABX]

It rubs me wrong too, but we can call him whatever we want after he gives up nukes.  You're suggesting we call him "ugly little fat man" during the negotiations?  Maybe some other name?

Childish name calling is just as bad. I wouldn't give him any attention, praising or 5 year old playground names.

If people actually think he will give up his nukes, they are smoking unicorn poop.

Hell, what we are hearing in our media is very different from what they are saying over there. Everyone is obsessed over dismantling one nuclear location, what about the other half dozen testing and development facilities we know about (not to mention all the other ones we don't).

Hell, that reminds me of the 'cash for clunkers' deal. They are throwing us a bone supposedly dismantling one damaged site for all these promises, but nary a word about all the other sites they are keeping.

It is a game- an almost mirror image of 2000- when they used games like this to get some sanctions lifted, get some $$$$, and secretly expand what they are doing while we looked the wrong way.

[edpc]

It rubs me wrong too, but we can call him whatever we want after he gives up nukes.  You're suggesting we call him "ugly little fat man" during the negotiations?  Maybe some other name?

Forget for a moment what we call him and let’s talk about the big picture.  Pompeo has openly talked about private capital investment in North Korea if they verifiably denuclearize, without mentioning other serious issues.  That’s disgraceful.  Didn’t we just pull out of a terrible deal with Iran, because, according to Trump, the deal never addressed other important issues?  Didn’t the P5 reach an understanding with Iran over nukes, so sanctions could be lifted on an oppressive, horrible regime?  Who are we kidding here?

[Sanguine]

I'll address both sets of questions with a single answer.  No, Rocket Man is highly unlikely to give up his nuclear weapons research without a fight.  Or, at all.  However, there is an opening and we should take it.  Are you two suggesting we just admit that he's unlikely to give up his nukes and walk away?  Or, as I've asked before, you're not suggesting military action, are you?  That option should always be on the table, but should be exercised only after options that put the pain onto the bad guys rather than on us.

As for not having mentioned other serious issues, that's not how it works.  You get the guy to the table first and then lay down the law.  There's other ways of doing it, and past presidents have tried some of those methods, with no success except to Kim.

And, what is the number one issue we need to resolve?  Otto Warmbier?  As much as it makes my blood boil what they did to him, and the fact that they have so far gotten away with it, we need to deal with the existential issue first.  Then Warmbier. 

[edpc]

@Sanguine


The time for military action was in January 2016, after they crossed the 10 kt threshold.  We now know, from Netanyahu's briefing, the original plan for Iran's nuclear weapon was a missile that could carry 5 warheads with a 10 kt yield.  You don't want to wait for them to have the capability to deliver it.  Since then, they've gone with tests of what I believe are boosted fission weapons.  Last year's test that destroyed Punggye-ri was estimated to be 150 kt or more.  That's a city buster.  Here's a link to show effects of differing yields on the city of your choice.

http://www.nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

They've attempted to build a reactor in Syria, but Israel bombed it.  They have another suspected facility there, probably for transferring technology and finished product.  I don't know what they're up to with these negotiations, but their intentions aren't pure.

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/u-s-monitoring-possible-north-korean-military-base-syria/

[Sanguine]

@Sanguine


The time for military action was in January 2016, after they crossed the 10 kt threshold.  We now know, from Netanyahu's briefing, the original plan for Iran's nuclear weapon was a missile that could carry 5 warheads with a 10 kt yield.  You don't want to wait for them to have the capability to deliver it.  Since then, they've gone with tests of what I believe are boosted fission weapons.  Last year's test that destroyed Punggye-ri was estimated to be 150 kt or more.  That's a city buster.  Here's a link to show effects of differing yields on the city of your choice.

http://www.nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

They've attempted to build a reactor in Syria, but Israel bombed it.  They have another suspected facility there, probably for transferring technology and finished product.  I don't know what they're up to with these negotiations, but their intentions aren't pure.

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/u-s-monitoring-possible-north-korean-military-base-syria/

I agree; the time for a military response is not now. 

[edpc]

I agree; the time for a military response is not now.

Now that we have committed to talks, no.  However, my underlying point is we are well past the time for military action.  If it's shown Kim is not sincere or is engaging in subterfuge, then Trump needs to address the nation in a manner somewhere between Kennedy with Cuba and Netanyahu with Iran.  The history of multiple nuclear tests will quash any comparison to Iraqi WMD claims.  The operation would need to commence ASAP, be brutal, and thorough - not like our tepid strikes on Syria.

[Sanguine]

Now that we have committed to talks, no.  However, my underlying point is we are well past the time for military action.  If it's shown Kim is not sincere or is engaging in subterfuge, then Trump needs to address the nation in a manner somewhere between Kennedy with Cuba and Netanyahu with Iran.  The history of multiple nuclear tests will quash any comparison to Iraqi WMD claims.  The operation would need to commence ASAP, be brutal, and thorough - not like our tepid strikes on Syria.

I can't disagree with that. 

[Fishrrman]

Abaraxas wrote:
"How about if we have regime change as a condition of terms?"

Sure, you can have a regime change.
But it's going to involve a war, an invasion, possibly the use of nuclear weapons in order to secure it.

Is the cost worth it to you?

(actually, it WOULD be "worth it" to me, but then again, I wouldn't be fighting in that war)

[goodwithagun]

To me it just sounds like more complicated political theatre by NK designed, ultimately, to extract money and goods from gullible western countries.

Yes. Kim’s playing the art of the deal.