Author Topic: Alan Dershowitz: Today is a 'very dangerous day for lawyer-client relations'  (Read 3709 times)

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Offline skeeter

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Something to keep in mind while you marvel over Dershowitz and his view on the matter - he still thinks OJ was framed by the LAPD.

Turley's analysis is more enlightening, IMO.

http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/382411-trump-must-beware-the-cohen-trap

Offline aligncare

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I don't think it's so much a case of Trump buying it.... but Trump getting stuck with it.  And Trump has gone on record to say he would have never chosen Sessions had he known beforehand about that gutless, moronic recusal.

Saying you will recuse is just something you say during confirmation. However, facts can change. And if facts show malicious intent was involved in ginning up an investigation against the new president Sessions should never have recused – or at least un-recused himself after the fact.

Offline endicom

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"- A Magistrate Judge signed off on this. Federal magistrate judges (appointed by local district judges, not by the President) review search warrant applications.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2018/04/10/this-is-war-how-big-of-a-deal-is-the-fbi-raid-of-trumps-lawyers-home-and-office-n2469320

Offline Victoria33

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The raid on Trump’s lawyer: Why? And why now?
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/04/the_raid_on_trumps_lawyer_why_and_why_now.html
@endicom

Part of that says (my bold):
"Update: President Trump was negotiating conditions for his interview with the special counsel that were restrictive as to what could be asked. Perhaps Mueller determined that it was unlikely to be productive. This raid now virtually precludes such an interview being agreed to. This will enable Mueller to seek a grand jury subpoena, which would lead to free questioning of the president with no counsel present. Trump can be expected to decline to honor such a subpoena, which would set off a constitutional crisis, and help along the impeachment movement."

If that could/may happen, Trump needs to take the 5th and tell the grand jury nothing.  If he talks to them, he will tell lies because he can't tell the difference between truth and lying, and they would nail him with lying.

In a county where I lived, my husband was the Republican chairman.  A woman district judge (she has since been removed as a judge due to her wrong doing, by the state judicial commission), hired a lawyer from Houston to investigate and charge a crime against every Republican office holder.  A friend of mine was called over and over before the grand jury of this lawyer.  She answered their questions every time and they told her she was lying (which she was not).  After the third time they called her in, I told her to take the 5th if they called her again.  She was called again and took the 5th.  They went into spasmodic anger, but had to let her go.  They didn't call her again.

I knew they wanted me to badger (I knew of nothing wrong any of our office holders had done because they had done nothing wrong), so this would be more of the district judge harassment, so I left the county and lived in a townhouse I had in another county.  Before I did this, I asked our Republican constable if they could give me a subpoena if I was in another county.  We had a guard gate to get into the townhouses.  He said, in case the person got through the gate, following someone in, don't open the door unless you know who is out there.  Sure enough, the sheriff asked my husband where I was.  He said we were going to the state convention and I had already left the county and he was leaving right then.  That was a true statement, we were going to that convention that day.

That attorney did charge a number of our office holders with a crime, and trials were held and none of them were convicted because they did nothing wrong.  That Democrat district judge wanted them out of office because there had never been Republicans in office in that county.  Eventually, we had more Republican office holders than Democrats in that county.

After all that happened, I now know judges can be corrupt/break laws, and so can lawyers.

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Thing is, the concept of attorney-client privilege is not absolute.  There is a major exception -- that is, if the client and attorney conspire to commit or cover up a crime.  It is hoped that before privileged communications are obtained, there is ample reason to believe that there is a crime and the attorney and client conspired to commit or cover it up. 

I expect the whole matter will end up in court.  Before we all panic, let's see what a judge has to say.

That's true.

However, this could easily be a very sleazy tactical move.  Anything you obtain under a lawful warrant, or that was discovered while pursuing the matters contained in the warrant, is admissible.  So, if they are reviewing documents in a search for client/attorney fraud (or just attorney illegality) with respect to the payment to that skank, and in the process come across privileged attorney-client documents that may be incriminating on a completely unrelated matter, they can generally use those even though the information was not within the scope of the original warrant.  And since they pretty much have to read all the documents covered by the warrant to know whether or not they are relevant to the subject matter of the warrant....bingo.

In other words, this is just a hack scheme to dig through privileged communications on other things that they normally couldn't obtain.

Offline Victoria33

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I believe that could be construed as "destroying evidence". But if Hillary can blatantly do it, so can we. Right?
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No judge/court had asked for those records so I could destroy them when I retired.

Offline txradioguy

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That's true.

However, this could easily be a very sleazy tactical move.  Anything you obtain under a lawful warrant, or that was discovered while pursuing the matters contained in the warrant, is admissible.  So, if they are reviewing documents in a search for client/attorney fraud (or just attorney illegality) with respect to the payment to that skank, and in the process come across privileged attorney-client documents that may be incriminating on a completely unrelated matter, they can generally use those even though the information was not within the scope of the original warrant.  And since they pretty much have to read all the documents covered by the warrant to know whether or not they are relevant to the subject matter of the warrant....bingo.

In other words, this is just a hack scheme to dig through privileged communications on other things that they normally couldn't obtain.

QFT.

You made the point I was trying to much more eloquently.
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Offline endicom

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After all that happened, I now know judges can be corrupt/break laws, and so can lawyers.

I've understood that for most of my life. These people are people and will do what people do.

I'm from NYC so I've gotten to see some of what goes on. People in less populated areas often make the mistake of believing that their officials are upright, God-fearing sorts and that's a big mistake to make.

 

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Turley's analysis is more enlightening, IMO.

http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/382411-trump-must-beware-the-cohen-trap

Turley's right, but in terms of Trump himself, the substance of this criticism isn't much different than Dershowitz'.  This is all a scheme on the part of Mueller to lure Trump into committing a crime because he doesn't have any evidence that he has already committed one.

Offline Hoodat

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Quote
Alan Dershowitz: Today is a 'very dangerous day for lawyer-client relations'  .  .  .

.  .  .  unless you are a Democrat.
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Offline aligncare

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Turley's analysis is more enlightening, IMO.

http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/382411-trump-must-beware-the-cohen-trap

So Cohen misstated the reason for the loan on a bank loan application – that’s just a refile. And certainly no one’s ever done that before. And the election finance violation? That’s an FEC fine! Is this why we’re paying millions to a special counsel and hobbling a presidency right out of the box?

Funny, but I just can’t see Russia from where I’m sitting.

Offline edpc

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So Cohen misstated the reason for the loan on a bank loan application – that’s just a refile. And certainly no one’s ever done that before. And the election finance violation? That’s an FEC fine! Is this why we’re paying millions to a special counsel and hobbling a presidency right out of the box?

Funny, but I just can’t see Russia from where I’m sitting.


Ask Manafort and Gates how their refiles are going and Charles Kushner or Dinesh D'souza about their FEC fines.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 04:24:26 pm by edpc »
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline skeeter

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Turley's right, but in terms of Trump himself, the substance of this criticism isn't much different than Dershowitz'.  This is all a scheme on the part of Mueller to lure Trump into committing a crime because he doesn't have any evidence that he has already committed one.

Turley goes into more detail concerning the mechanics of Mueller's action.

BTW Dershowitz gets Mueller's motives wrong, also. He is highly partisan.

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Ask Manafort and Gates how their refiles are going and Charles Kushner or Dinesh D'souza about their FEC fines.

This is a massive example of selective prosecution, where the criteria used for determining who gets prosecuted, and who doesn't, is political affiliation.  Flynn gets a felony conviction for making statements that even the FBI agents involved did not believer were deliberate lies.  McCabe excuses his own missrepresentations by claiming he was "confused".

The whole thing is disgusting.

Offline edpc

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This is a massive example of selective prosecution, where the criteria used for determining who gets prosecuted, and who doesn't, is political affiliation.  Flynn gets a felony conviction for making statements that even the FBI agents involved did not believer were deliberate lies.  McCabe excuses his own missrepresentations by claiming he was "confused".

The whole thing is disgusting.


Flynn is a Democrat.  So is Kushner.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Flynn is a Democrat.  So is Kushner.

Flynn was part of the Trump Administration -- so is Kushner.  Party affiliation is irrelevant in terms of the political agendas of those pushing these prosecutions.

Offline DCPatriot

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What I want to know:

Since Alan Dershowitz claims that Ted Cruz was the most intelligent, best debater/student he had ever encountered in all the years professing at Harvard.....

....what does Teddy think about all this?

Perhaps he can expound on the matter as has Turley.
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Offline Sanguine

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What I want to know:

Since Alan Dershowitz claims that Ted Cruz was the most intelligent, best debater/student he had ever encountered in all the years professing at Harvard.....

....what does Teddy think about all this?

Perhaps he can expound on the matter as has Turley.

Perhaps he has, but we wouldn't know since he's been shadow banned on Twitter.

Offline DCPatriot

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Perhaps he has, but we wouldn't know since he's been shadow banned on Twitter.

 **nononono*    terrible....

Perhaps he'll be on FOXNEWS tonight.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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Offline edpc

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Flynn was part of the Trump Administration -- so is Kushner.  Party affiliation is irrelevant in terms of the political agendas of those pushing these prosecutions.


I was referring to Charles Kushner, the father.  He was the one convicted on illegal campaign contributions and other charges.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline skeeter

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**nononono*    terrible....

Perhaps he'll be on FOXNEWS tonight.

Maybe Hannity will invite him on.

Offline LauraTXNM

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Alan Dershowitz and a couple of other attorneys are on KPCC's Airtalk program right now debating a search of attorneys' papers etc.  He is talking about the danger of "accidentally" coming across protected information while undergoing even a legal search.
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Online libertybele

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With Mueller we have gone full third world, criminalizing political opponents. This will not end well for the USA. Sessions must act.

If you're waiting for Sessions to do something don't hold your breath.  He should have fired Rosenstein and Mueller a very long time ago and since he didn't Trump should have fired all three of them.  Trump has kept the status quo and here we sit.  Trump needs to accept some responsibility as to what has happened.  Meanwhile, people continue to bail out of his administration and he needs to really realize that they are out to bury him and have every intent to impeach him and I believe certain members of the GOPe will vote for impeachment as well.
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Online libertybele

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What I want to know:

Since Alan Dershowitz claims that Ted Cruz was the most intelligent, best debater/student he had ever encountered in all the years professing at Harvard.....

....what does Teddy think about all this?

Perhaps he can expound on the matter as has Turley.

Though this has nothing to do with Cruz, I'll respond. Yes, Dershowitz has stated that Cruz is off the charts brilliant.  I'm hoping Cruz stays silent on this one for the simple fact that I think he clearly sees what's going on and knows that the swamp creatures have a target; Trump and every GOP running in the mid terms. Besides,  he's met with Trump a few times and Trump didn't value his opinion, nor has he ever offered Cruz an apology.  Trump also went as far as to threaten Cruz's Senate seat and in spite of all the b.s. Trump has thrown at Cruz, Cruz has stood up for Trump numerous times. 

Just my opinion, but if Trump were smart he would have swallowed his pride and named Cruz as his AG.  Appointing Sessions was the biggest mistake he's made and now he's let things get to the point that firing Sesssions, Rosenstein and Mueller would create quite an upheaval.  Sorry, but Trump needs to take some responsibility on this one.
I Believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.  I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey its laws to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies.

Offline LauraTXNM

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Though this has nothing to do with Cruz, I'll respond. Yes, Dershowitz has stated that Cruz is off the charts brilliant.  I'm hoping Cruz stays silent on this one for the simple fact that I think he clearly sees what's going on and knows that the swamp creatures have a target; Trump and every GOP running in the mid terms. Besides,  he's met with Trump a few times and Trump didn't value his opinion, nor has he ever offered Cruz an apology.  Trump also went as far as to threaten Cruz's Senate seat and in spite of all the b.s. Trump has thrown at Cruz, Cruz has stood up for Trump numerous times. 

Just my opinion, but if Trump were smart he would have swallowed his pride and named Cruz as his AG.  Appointing Sessions was the biggest mistake he's made and now he's let things get to the point that firing Sesssions, Rosenstein and Mueller would create quite an upheaval.  Sorry, but Trump needs to take some responsibility on this one.

@libertybele I had thought Cruz was waiting for a Supreme Court Justiceship to open up, which seemed like a good position for him.
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