Trump says he’ll guard Mexican border with military

[edpc]

Should put to rest, #nevertrumpian claims he can't do what he stated.

Nobody says they can't be deployed to the border.  Some, however, have unrealistic expectations of their role.  It's constrained by law.  You may be expecting this.....




But you're actually going to get this....

[Smokin Joe]

Nobody says they can't be deployed to the border.  Some, however, have unrealistic expectations of their role.  It's constrained by law.  You may be expecting this.....




But you're actually going to get this....

The grim reality is that with the 4th estate/5th column we have to deal with in America, any violence against even the most vicious or well-armed faction or individual at the border will be portrayed as a massacre of innocents. It is entirely possible, that in an attempt to keep the borders open as possible the Cartels might seed incidents among the invaders which can be portrayed as unwarranted acts by US troops against innocent and unarmed masses, much like someone firing a shot at Kent State precipitating a response.
For that reason, I expect that our troops there will be at a decided disadvantage when it comes to being armed--to prevent those optics from being generated.

[truth_seeker]

The grim reality is that with the 4th estate/5th column we have to deal with in America, any violence against even the most vicious or well-armed faction or individual at the border will be portrayed as a massacre of innocents. It is entirely possible, that in an attempt to keep the borders open as possible the Cartels might seed incidents among the invaders which can be portrayed as unwarranted acts by US troops against innocent and unarmed masses, much like someone firing a shot at Kent State precipitating a response.
For that reason, I expect that our troops there will be at a decided disadvantage when it comes to being armed--to prevent those optics from being generated.

I was in the Army in Germany when Kent State occured. Needless to say, it was reason to be concerned. The unrest back in the USA was reflected somewhat in Europe too.

Later I read extensively about Kent State, including an excellent book by James Michener, who departed from his historical novel format.

He concluded two factors: 1. Inadequate training and discipline by the troops, and 2. Outside agitation of the demonstrators

When major riots broke out in Lost Angeles over the Rodney King verdict, Chief Gate wisely pulled police officers back. I later learned more from an officer.

Police only want to engage with rioters and protesters with adequate strength. Lacking strength, they are better out of the fray.

At our border, we have relatively small numbers of agents at any given sector. If large numbers of intruders swarm a sector, NG troops could be moved quickly to bolter numbers.

Here in Orange County, the Sheriff Dept. uses horseback mounted officers. Same for some city Police Depts.

No need to shoot the intruders. But we do need an adaquate demonstration of force and will.   

[Smokin Joe]

I was in the Army in Germany when Kent State occured. Needless to say, it was reason to be concerned. The unrest back in the USA was reflected somewhat in Europe too.

Later I read extensively about Kent State, including an excellent book by James Michener, who departed from his historical novel format.

He concluded two factors: 1. Inadequate training and discipline by the troops, and 2. Outside agitation of the demonstrators

When major riots broke out in Lost Angeles over the Rodney King verdict, Chief Gate wisely pulled police officers back. I later learned more from an officer.

Police only want to engage with rioters and protesters with adequate strength. Lacking strength, they are better out of the fray.

At our border, we have relatively small numbers of agents at any given sector. If large numbers of intruders swarm a sector, NG troops could be moved quickly to bolter numbers.

Here in Orange County, the Sheriff Dept. uses horseback mounted officers. Same for some city Police Depts.

No need to shoot the intruders. But we do need an adaquate demonstration of force and will.   

In the 60s there was a study done on just how much force would be needed to quell a 'civil unrest incident', what forces/levels should be employed, and when. I have little doubt that the Kent State incident, although a volatile situation, was touched off by something which sounded like (if it wasn't) gunshot(s), and not from the NG first. At that point, with tensions high, a string of firecrackers in an acoustically advantageous location would have been enough. There were areas of DC, Newark, Atlanta, Detroit, Chicago, and other cities where police did not needlessly expose themselves to being overwhelmed, and with good reason. One such incident would have been circulated widely by the (then, already) Liberal Press, and encouraged even more violence.

A demonstration of force is good. Shooting intruders, if unarmed, not. My concern is that an incident will be provoked which will provide optics which will gain sympathy for the invaders and be widely circulated. That has to be avoided, even if it means corralling the press.

[truth_seeker]

A demonstration of force is good. Shooting intruders, if unarmed, not. My concern is that an incident will be provoked which will provide optics which will gain sympathy for the invaders and be widely circulated. That has to be avoided, even if it means corralling the press.

I agree with your analysis. After Kent State, LEOs and other forces got much better at "crowd control."

Obviously no good reason to shoot. But maintain good order, and isolate, and arrest the worst of them.

And these days good photography has to be part of the efforts by the good guys, since the bad guys  will photo it and use well edited scenes if possible.

An incident in my town was on Facebook hours after it took place. A police officer shot and killed a 27 year old homeless Navy vet. The video shown by the local network, was edited to ony show a rumble by the officer and the perp, then the shooting.

What was initially NOT shown, was the lead up, with the perp advancing on the officer, the officer using his taser, etc.

The two video versions told opposite stories. The left lost huge credibility in hours. Weeks later, it was proved that this perp, had murdered an elderly man, who had befriended and tried to help him.

The episode proved how dishonest the media is.  The city Police Chief and the DA, used it to publicly tell the true story, of a violent drug addicted fellow, who commited violent murder. (I know the mother of the vet)

[Smokin Joe]

I agree with your analysis. After Kent State, LEOs and other forces got much better at "crowd control."

Obviously no good reason to shoot. But maintain good order, and isolate, and arrest the worst of them.

And these days good photography has to be part of the efforts by the good guys, since the bad guys  will photo it and use well edited scenes if possible.

An incident in my town was on Facebook hours after it took place. A police officer shot and killed a 27 year old homeless Navy vet. The video shown by the local network, was edited to ony show a rumble by the officer and the perp, then the shooting.

What was initially NOT shown, was the lead up, with the perp advancing on the officer, the officer using his taser, etc.

The two video versions told opposite stories. The left lost huge credibility in hours. Weeks later, it was proved that this perp, had murdered an elderly man, who had befriended and tried to help him.

The episode proved how dishonest the media is.  The city Police Chief and the DA, used it to publicly tell the true story, of a violent drug addicted fellow, who commited violent murder. (I know the mother of the vet)

We should have all learned that lesson from the Rodney King incident. What was shown looked like an inexcusable beat down (and it sure looked excessive, even to me), but what happened before that part was left out, and that would have mitigated opinion.

I had a college roommate who was in the relatively new field of Communication Arts (1970s), who showed me how a camera angle could make a crowd look larger or smaller, or even absent, and have ever been conscious of how the media can manipulate their images (even in the days of film) by getting the 'right' angle and lighting, viewing from above or below, to make people appear sinister or saintly, perky or tired, younger or older. Even then a snapshot (such as a South Vietnamese policeman executing a Murderer) could be taken out of context and with the wave of a caption, made into an evil and mis-attributed act. 
We need to get back to having reporters who report, not distort, (as well as teachers who teach instead of preach their school subjects), but until then, the media are with us, even as they are against us.