Trump: Steel tariffs go away if 'fair' NAFTA is reached

[Fantom]

I see that economics is not your strong suit.

Hows that? Care to explain to me?   O great one of knowledge. 

[edpc]

Well, I don't know of an actual flaw or point of unfairness in the current NAFTA bill but apparently Trump does.

How about you?

Trump can’t even remember ‘I hear you’ without a note card. What makes you think he even knows what NAFTA stands for?

[edpc]

Trump is the first since the end of the Cold War to cite national security concerns as the basis for a major new tariff. And trade experts aren’t buying it. “It is a complete sham,” economist Gary Hufbauer of the Peterson Institute for International Economics told Yahoo Finance. “The Pentagon buys very specialized steel under the Buy America program. There’s no shortage of this stuff.”


https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/trumps-tariffs-complete-sham-222737600.html

[Hoodat]

I'm not seeing a lot of economic genius around here, but this is what Trump said about NAFTA:

"We have large trade deficits with Mexico and Canada.

We had large trade deficits with Mexico and Canada BEFORE NAFTA.  NAFTA is not why we have trade deficits, nor are trade deficits even bad.  Trade deficits speak of our economic might compared to other countries.  And those dollars end up right back in the US in the form of capital investments.

NAFTA, which is under renegotiation right now, has been a bad deal for U.S.A.

Trump is dead ass wrong.  NAFTA has been a great deal for the USA, as well as Canada and Mexico.

Massive relocation of companies & jobs.

That was happening without NAFTA, and it will continue to happen.  Unless of course you propose building an iron curtain around the US preventing Toyota or BMW from relocating jobs into the US.  Again, Trump is speaking like a complete fool on this.  It is the same dumbass rhetoric that Democrats have been reciting for the last 40 years.

Tariffs on Steel and Aluminum will only come off if new & fair NAFTA agreement is signed."

So what happens to US jobs when Canada and Mexico retaliate by implementing their own tariffs on US goods?  Remember that fivefold increase in exports to Mexico?  Better kiss that goodbye.

[Hoodat]

Hows that? Care to explain to me?   O great one of knowledge.

Clearly, you are oblivious to the economic fact that paying an extra penny for an aluminum can will reduce one's standard of living by one penny, because that is a penny he/she no longer has to spend on something else.  But then we aren't talking pennies here.  We are talking tens of millions of dollars of trade that will no longer happen because of tariffs.

[EasyAce]

[Government] should operate on the principle of government not sticking its nose into our lives  . . .

Right there you nailed it.

Giving money and power to the government is like giving whiskey and the car keys to teenage boys.---P.J. O'Rourke.

[endicom]

Unless of course you propose building an iron curtain around the US preventing Toyota or BMW from relocating jobs into the US.

That was for fear of tariffs.

[Fantom]

Clearly, you are oblivious to the economic fact that paying an extra penny for an aluminum can will reduce one's standard of living by one penny, because that is a penny he/she no longer has to spend on something else.  But then we aren't talking pennies here.  We are talking tens of millions of dollars of trade that will no longer happen because of tariffs.

It would add about $7000.00 to the price of a $ 90 million dollar Boeing 737... yawn.

On the other hand, we save tens of millions in our people working. No food stamps, no section 8... taxes paid on earnings.

So you pay a penny on your next sixpack... and save $100.00 on paying someone to live on welfare.  Yeah, economics sucks.

[Emjay]

It would add about $7000.00 to the price of a $ 90 million dollar Boeing 737... yawn.

On the other hand, we save tens of millions in our people working. No food stamps, no section 8... taxes paid on earnings.

So you pay a penny on your next sixpack... and save $100.00 on paying someone to live on welfare.  Yeah, economics sucks.

Good post.  As that talking Barbie said, "Math is hard."

[Hoodat]

It is the drug dealers fault. If that is mexico, or they aid it, then yes.

Have you ever been addicted to a drug?  I have, free will is what starts it, after that... you have no free will. Don't be dense and blame the rape victim..... no matter how short the skirt she wore.

I am a recovered addict, so yes, I have been addicted to drugs.  And never did I blame the person I was buying drugs from that it was his fault I was buying drugs.  Because if I had, I would have had to find a new person to buy drugs from.

And as an addict yourself, you should already know this.  Because the first friggin' step to recovery is admitting that it is your responsibility - not everyone elses.

So again, the only reason Mexicans smuggle drugs into the US is because American dope heads demand it with their dollars.  Again, simple economics.  Supply and demand.

[Hoodat]

It would add about $7000.00 to the price of a $ 90 million dollar Boeing 737... yawn.

On the other hand, we save tens of millions in our people working. No food stamps, no section 8... taxes paid on earnings.

So you assume that other countries won't retaliate with their own tariffs, and that American steel and aluminum companies won't raise their prices?

Obama's tire tariff saved 1,200 tire jobs, but cost 3,700 retail jobs.  Americans ended up paying an extra $1.1 billion for tires.  And chicken farmers lost $1 billion in sales to China because of their own retaliatory tariff.

[Hoodat]

That was for fear of tariffs.

No.  It was because it makes economic sense to produce their product closer to the consumer.  It is cheaper for Toyota to make cars in the US to sell in the US than it is to make them in Japan and ship them across the Pacific and across the continent.

[Fantom]

Mexico runs a trade deficit with steel.  The US is Mexico's largest steel importer at 1 million metric tons annually.  And Trump wants to put a tariff on steel imports from Mexico?  Seriously?

There's 1 million tons of US steel exports you can kiss goodbye.  It always blows my mind how economic liberals (even the ones here) choose to ignore human nature and never expect people to retaliate against government-forced economic pricing.  They magically believe that our trade deficit with Mexico (as if that is actually a bad thing) will get erased when we put import duties on Mexican products while they miraculously continue to purchase ours duty-free.

Not sure where you get your ahem facts from. But it would seem analytical analysis is not your strong suit... jus sayin'.

https://www.trade.gov/steel/countries/pdfs/2016/annual/imports-us.pdf

mexico is accounts for 9% of US steel imports. We import over 30 million metric ton. This Simple Bricklayer sees that we import almost 3 million metric ton from mexico.

Now we do send 1 million into mexico... probably to the malcadora plants putting out cars together. Another thing we need to stop. I doubt we lose that 1 million ton.

So the actual truth is we are on the downside of the trade in steel too. by a factor of two to one.

[Fantom]

So you assume that other countries won't retaliate with their own tariffs, and that American steel and aluminum companies won't raise their prices?

Obama's tire tariff saved 1,200 tire jobs, but cost 3,700 retail jobs.  Americans ended up paying an extra $1.1 billion for tires.  And chicken farmers lost $1 billion in sales to China because of their own retaliatory tariff.

If China wants to starve.. ok.

You throw numbers out with very little backing. Your numbers on our steel trade with mexico are pure crap as I have just shown.

Why should I believe you.. any of your numbers when you are so easily proven to be a li...Er' I mean so sloppy with your "Facts"?

[Hoodat]

So the actual truth is we are on the downside of the trade in steel too. by a factor of two to one.

So what?  I am so sick of this lame Democrat envy argument.  Would you feel better if our trade deficit in steel was zero with neither country importing or exporting steel?

[Emjay]

If China wants to starve.. ok.

You throw numbers out with very little backing. Your numbers on our steel trade with mexico are pure crap as I have just shown.

Why should I believe you.. any of your numbers when you are so easily proven to be a li...Er' I mean so sloppy with your "Facts"?

No one knows what will happen ... I've read everyone's posts and Fantom's make the most sense but most people derive their facts from preconceived notions.

[corbe]

No one knows what will happen ... I've read everyone's posts and Fantom's make the most sense but most people derive their facts from preconceived notions.

 

    My Dear lady are you insinuating that perhaps some of US are Bias? 

[Hoodat]

You throw numbers out with very little backing. Your numbers on our steel trade with mexico are pure crap as I have just shown.

That's funny, because I used the same source you did.  post 10

https://www.trade.gov/steel/countries/pdfs/2017/q1/imports-mexico.pdf

[Fantom]

So what?  I am so sick of this lame Democrat envy argument.  Would you feel better if our trade deficit in steel was zero with neither country importing or exporting steel?

@Hoodat

Not democrat envy Hoodat. I just prefer to reason from actual facts.

Anyways, there is not going to be a trade war, everybody is making a mint off of us..... they are not going to lose that. Well get a bunch of kabuki and ape threat displays. Then the proverbial 900 pound gorilla will sit where it wants, that would be us.

And 'Bout time I say.



No hard feelings friend.
My bedtime, tomorrow is my day off..... and work beacons. Have a good night.

[Hoodat]

No one knows what will happen ... I've read everyone's posts and Fantom's make the most sense

Then you are a sucker for non-rational persuasion.

.  .  . but most people derive their facts from preconceived notions.

You mean silly notions like getting rid of free trade will somehow help create jobs?

[Fantom]

That's funny, because I used the same source you did.  post 10

https://www.trade.gov/steel/countries/pdfs/2017/q1/imports-mexico.pdf

You did not link your info, not that it matters.

As I said, analytical analysis is not your strong suit. Your link leads to what mexico imports from all countries. that is one million from the US.  What you fail, for whatever reason, is to see what it exports to the US.

After that it is simple math to speak from truth.

[Hoodat]

@Hoodat

Not democrat envy Hoodat. I just prefer to reason from actual facts.

Yet you can't come up with a single facet of NAFTA that you can discredit.  Instead, you focus on the trade deficit (as if that is even a bad thing), and then blame NAFTA for it.

Anyways, there is not going to be a trade war, everybody is making a mint off of us..... they are not going to lose that.

Yet when Obama imposed tariffs on Chinese tires, China retaliated immediately with tariffs on US chicken.  And you claim to reason with facts?  Ha!

[Fantom]

No one knows what will happen ... I've read everyone's posts and Fantom's make the most sense but most people derive their facts from preconceived notions.

Thanx @Emjay .  I try for a factual consideration.  Certainly not above working the crowd though. But if your facts are wrong, well,... there is always a job at the Huffington post or CNN.

[Hoodat]

You did not link your info, not that it matters.

As I said, analytical analysis is not your strong suit. Your link leads to what mexico imports from all countries. that is one million from the US.  What you fail, for whatever reason, is to see what it exports to the US.

After that it is simple math to speak from truth.

Still harping on the trade deficit?  Maybe we should just outlaw Mexican imports altogether so that our trade deficit will be in the black, so that we can have pesos left over to invest in Mexico instead of that country having dollars left over to invest in the US.

[Hoodat]

Bernie Sanders Tells Trump to Keep His Promise on Nafta

Andrew Mayeda     |     December 13, 2017, 2:45 PM EST


President Donald Trump is finding an unlikely ally in his efforts to overhaul the North American Free Trade Agreement: the political left.

Civil-society groups, union leaders and left-wing politicians have opposed almost everything Trump has done. But they’re urging him to stand firm in his attempt to overhaul Nafta -- and face down opposition from business groups, who complain that U.S. companies will be hurt by the proposed changes. Mexico and Canada have called U.S. demands unworkable, including on regional-content requirements for cars and investor-state dispute systems.

Senator Bernie Sanders, an outspoken critic of trade deals in his campaign for president last year, called on Trump to deliver. “When Donald Trump campaigned for president, he promised that he was going to stop corporations from shifting American jobs to Mexico,” Sanders said Wednesday at a rally for the #ReplaceNafta movement in Washington. “For once in your life, keep your promises.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-03-02/china-stands-to-gain-from-donald-trump-s-steel-tariffs