BREAKING>> Active Shooter Florida High School... Developing... Multiple victims...

[INVAR]

@INVAR
Its sadly ironic that people like him are more than happy to use the govts guns and govts violence to impose their version of safety on the population.

Of course.  It's what advocates for tyranny are all about.  Government is their god and the tool to be used to punish everyone that offends them or does not make them feel 'safe'.

You know what is more sad than that?

That Proverbs 1: 24-32 is something rejected, or not even considered by a people bewildered after a calamity.

[Cyber Liberty]

As I will tell any and all advocates of tyranny - it's not a threat Jazzy - IT'S A PROMISE.

If you want to work to abolish in practicality, the Second Amendment and declare it a 'reasonable restriction' you go right ahead. 

You have absolutely no understanding or comprehension of what you will start. 

But I know for certain you will rue the day your ideas were actually attempted to be implemented.

Jazzy and O both seem to think if a repeal of the 2nd Amendment is proposed, this school shooting is going to push support for this over the top in 2/3rds of each house of the Legislature and 3/4 of the states.  I just don't see it.

[Oceander]

This tragedy could have been stopped a year ago...six months ago...hell even last week if someone had simply contacted the local Sheriffs department or police department. 

I mean the kid had been giving big enough signals on social media he was going to to something like this that even a blin man could have seen them.

And yet people remained silent.

What should the police have done?  Confiscated his weapons because he seemed dangerous to them?  Should they have erred to the side of caution and confiscated them unless he could prove that under no circumstances would he actually be a threat?

You need to think though the implications of any system like that carefully because sufficient discretion in the hands of law enforcement will result in a lot of fire arms being confiscated on the grounds of potential danger. 

[TomSea]

White supremacist group per members of 4 chan? Anyway,  I'm tending to think this shooter has a Cuban heritage vs. other ethnic groups.

[Oceander]

Jazzy and O both seem to think if a repeal of the 2nd Amendment is proposed, this school shooting is going to push support for this over the top in 2/3rds of each house of the Legislature and 3/4 of the states.  I just don't see it.

No, not just this one.  It’ll be the next one, or the one after that, but if nothing is done other than more hand-wringing, it will happen. 

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid was just massacred by this guy; don’t you think you’d be demanding to know why a palpably mentally disturbed kid was able to legally buy an AR-15?

[thackney]

You were warned.  You can either participate in crafting the new laws, or you can passively accept whatever laws the left decides to enact, what you cannot do is pretend that nothing will change.

I will not passively accept proposals for bad laws.

To ignore demonstrated reality, more restrictive gun laws create more victim zones, is insane.

[TomSea]

What should the police have done?  Confiscated his weapons because he seemed dangerous to them?  Should they have erred to the side of caution and confiscated them unless he could prove that under no circumstances would he actually be a threat?

You need to think though the implications of any system like that carefully because sufficient discretion in the hands of law enforcement will result in a lot of fire arms being confiscated on the grounds of potential danger.

I think he should have been given a psychological evaluation and then, committed if they found him questionable.  With whom he was living needed to be talked to as well, per his getting an AR15.

[driftdiver]

What should the police have done?  Confiscated his weapons because he seemed dangerous to them?  Should they have erred to the side of caution and confiscated them unless he could prove that under no circumstances would he actually be a threat?

You need to think though the implications of any system like that carefully because sufficient discretion in the hands of law enforcement will result in a lot of fire arms being confiscated on the grounds of potential danger.

@Oceander
Making a threat of violence to a school is already a crime and could have been prosecuted.


but you knew that

[Cyber Liberty]

No, not just this one.  It’ll be the next one, or the one after that, but if nothing is done other than more hand-wringing, it will happen. 

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid was just massacred by this guy; don’t you think you’d be demanding to know why a palpably mentally disturbed kid was able to legally buy an AR-15?

When I try to put myself in the shoes of the parents of these kids, I just get more furious at the ghouls trying to use their blood to advance their petty political goals.  Can you guess at who I consider the ghouls?

[txradioguy]

What should the police have done?  Confiscated his weapons because he seemed dangerous to them?  Should they have erred to the side of caution and confiscated them unless he could prove that under no circumstances would he actually be a threat?

You need to think though the implications of any system like that carefully because sufficient discretion in the hands of law enforcement will result in a lot of fire arms being confiscated on the grounds of potential danger.

There was a credible threat in what he said and posted on FB.  They could have done a knock and talk to judge if he was serious or just talking trash. 

If the police believe they had someone who was a danger to himself and others to implement whatever version of the baker Act that Florida has.

He wasn't allowed on campus with a back pack...teachers were told when he was attending there to "keep an eye on him".

As I said before this could have been prevented before it ever happened...but everyone swallowed their tongues.

[INVAR]

If gun owners cannot come up with a creative way of making sure that fire arms, period, are not considered to be too damned dangerous as well, they will lose them.

The idiocy of that statement in itself is astounding.

But - as offered elsewhere - the only way I'm losing my firearms is if you empower the government to kill all of us who refuse to surrender them.

And being an agent of the state charged with enforcing such a policy will be a job few to none will want.

[Oceander]

@Oceander
You must have one of those Staples buttons, you press it and it says the same thing every time.

I haven’t offered any easy solutions, mate, just a warning that hard work on getting creative, effective, results had better be done now, or the liberals will use their “Easy” button and make gun ownership illegal, period. 

So, please, continue to flame me and insult me; I can take it.  Just don’t kid yourself into thinking your guns are safe if only you hyperventilate and wring your hands about all the evil in the world and how we can’t escape it. 

[edpc]

I guess some of the Framers were right...the Bill of Rights would give some people the wrong idea that only enumerated rights exist.

You had better be glad they did get enumerate them, because it’s very doubtful this discussion board would even exist, much less a lot of other rights that would’ve been done away with long before now.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

Jazzy and O both seem to think if a repeal of the 2nd Amendment is proposed, this school shooting is going to push support for this over the top in 2/3rds of each house of the Legislature and 3/4 of the states.  I just don't see it.

I posted this story elsewhere on the net

https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/04/asia/china-kindergarten-knife-attack/index.html

A gun control advocate responded "But think how much Worse it would have been if he'd had a gun."

How much worse could it already be than to chop up 5 year olds with a knife?

@Cyber Liberty

There's no reasoning with that mindset friend. None.

[Oceander]

The idiocy of that statement in itself is astounding.

But - as offered elsewhere - the only way I'm losing my firearms is if you empower the government to kill all of us who refuse to surrender them.

And being an agent of the state charged with enforcing such a policy will be a job few to none will want.

You kid yourself if you think it wouldn’t be easy for law enforcement to shoot you dead if you violently resist an order to confiscate your fire arms.

Remember Waco?  Remember all the times someone died because some trigger happy cop on a bust pulled the trigger before thinking things through?

You wouldn’t last a minute, and other than a small handful of outsiders, you wouldn’t be much mourned, either.

That is, if you and the other gun owners do nothing, concede nothing, and let liberals push the legislative agenda. 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

So what's this guy's freeper name?

[INVAR]

There was a credible threat in what he said and posted on FB.  They could have done a knock and talk to judge if he was serious or just talking trash. 

If the police believe they had someone who was a danger to himself and others to implement whatever version of the baker Act that Florida has.

He wasn't allowed on campus with a back pack...teachers were told when he was attending there to "keep an eye on him".

As I said before this could have been prevented before it ever happened...but everyone swallowed their tongues.

And now the entire discussion is about coercing the willful surrender of the right to keep and bear arms, because if we do not agree to 'reasonable infringements' then we are told we will lose the entire Amendment itself and have our arms confiscated.

Which serves the bigger picture of what we are being fundamentally transformed into.

[Oceander]

@Oceander
Good grief, <>

Flame away, mate, flame away.  Killing the messenger doesn’t kill the message.  It merely illustrates the desperation of those who would kill the messenger.

[Cyber Liberty]

Flame away, mate, flame away.  Killing the messenger doesn’t kill the message.  It merely illustrates the desperation of those who would kill the messenger.

It's not much different than pointing out Cracked.com is not a reliable source to get your news.   

[aligncare]

Update: A White Supremacist has told reporters that Cruz was an member and participated in "training".

Oh, great. Another ‘white’ Hispanic. Oddly, only the second one found in America.

[Oceander]

There was a credible threat in what he said and posted on FB.  They could have done a knock and talk to judge if he was serious or just talking trash. 

If the police believe they had someone who was a danger to himself and others to implement whatever version of the baker Act that Florida has.

He wasn't allowed on campus with a back pack...teachers were told when he was attending there to "keep an eye on him".

As I said before this could have been prevented before it ever happened...but everyone swallowed their tongues.

How far are you willing to go with preventive detentions and confiscations?  Since a judge would not have been available immediately for a hearing, should his guns have been seized preventively until a hearing, and any appeals from that hearing, could be held?

What about some of the folks here who have done things like posting pictures of people being executed by hanging to make their point over what they think should happen to be FBI and DOJ people who were involved in the Trump spy fiasco?  Is that a sufficient threat against government officials that would justify preventively arresting them and seizing their weapons, and then having a hearing on whether they are enough of a danger that they should be permanently disarmed?

What about an online discussion forum that countenances that sort of stuff?

It’s very easy to state the concept in the abstract and after the fact; it’s a lot harder to draw up the rules to apply prospectively, before anything has happened. 

[thackney]

Stop pretending that you can maintain the status quo by claiming helplessness in the face of repeated school massacres undertaken with firearms. 

There will be new laws on guns; you can either participate in how they’re written and stave off, say, outright seizure, but have to agree to some more restrictions, or you can do nothing and cry in your tea when liberals enact gun seizure laws.

Status quo or more restrictive gun laws are not the only options.

Texas school district allows armed teachers
http://www.kcbd.com/story/20387667/texas-school-district-allows-armed-teachers

We need to value our children as much as the bank values money.

[Oceander]

It's not much different than pointing out Cracked.com is not a reliable source to get your news.   

And more.  Flame away.  I know you hate what im saying, but so far I haven’t seen anything other than more ineffectual hand-wringing, and eventually that ain’t gonna cut it any more. 

[Oceander]

Status quo or more restrictive gun laws are not the only options.

Texas school district allows armed teachers
http://www.kcbd.com/story/20387667/texas-school-district-allows-armed-teachers

We need to value our children as much as the bank values money.

So we should turn our schools into armed camps?

[INVAR]

You kid yourself if you think it wouldn’t be easy for law enforcement to shoot you dead if you violently resist an order to confiscate your fire arms.

Remember Waco?  Remember all the times someone died because some trigger happy cop on a bust pulled the trigger before thinking things through?

Wow.

Welcome to your tyranny comrade. Hope you enjoy it.

I am certainly glad our forefathers did not subscribe and surrender to a similar warning about the might and unstoppable power of the British Army to do the King's Justice.

You wouldn’t last a minute, and other than a small handful of outsiders, you wouldn’t be much mourned, either.

Some things are worth fighting, killing and dying for, even if the rest of society no longer finds any value in it and accepts what is being imposed.

That is, if you and the other gun owners do nothing, concede nothing, and let liberals push the legislative agenda.

Concession is surrender. 

I have no plans to surrender, even if you are urging us all to do so out of fear of what the Left and the government will do to us for refusing to comply with tyranny.

“If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.” - Winston Churchill