BREAKING>> Active Shooter Florida High School... Developing... Multiple victims...

[dfwgator]

Bullshit.   Requiring car owners to register and insure their vehicles isn't "taking their cars away".  With rights come responsibilities.   Guns are useful, like cars, and exceedingly dangerous just like cars.   

The Second Amendment absolutists are losing all credibility.   The community wants gun ownership to coincide with responsibility,  and there's nothing unreasonable nor unconstitutional about that.   The community will get what it demands, one way or the other.   Care to be part of the solution, or just another mewling fool demanding his "freedom" to be selfish?

You think they're going to be happy with registration?   That's just the beginning.    Once you give them an inch they will take a mile.  You will be basically conceding to them the point that guns are responsible for the violence.

[edpc]

The gun-control advocates want one thing and one thing only,  total confiscation,   they're just willing to do it in steps,   give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

The arbitrary nonsense they used to determine what was an 'assault weapon' years ago demonstrated that perfectly.  Pistol grips.  Bayonet lugs.  KMA.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Bullshit.   Requiring car owners to register and insure their vehicles isn't "taking their cars away".  With rights come responsibilities.   Guns are useful, like cars, and exceedingly dangerous just like cars.   

The Second Amendment absolutists are losing all credibility.   The community wants gun ownership to coincide with responsibility,  and there's nothing unreasonable nor unconstitutional about that.   The community will get what it demands, one way or the other.   Care to be part of the solution, or just another mewling fool demanding his "freedom" to be selfish?

Since you believe you're the voice of reason here @Jazzhead  --- state what you would do.  And don't be shy.

[truth_seeker]

How about making big noise, that the FBI has had many/most of these perps "on the radar?"

We need a better LEO response when they are warned.

[Smokin Joe]

Bullshit.   Requiring car owners to register and insure their vehicles isn't "taking their cars away".  With rights come responsibilities.   Guns are useful, like cars, and exceedingly dangerous just like cars.   

The Second Amendment absolutists are losing all credibility.   The community wants gun ownership to coincide with responsibility,  and there's nothing unreasonable nor unconstitutional about that.   The community will get what it demands, one way or the other.   Care to be part of the solution, or just another mewling fool demanding his "freedom" to be selfish?

Name one society which has implemented large scale gun registration which has not at least sought to disarm its populace.

[Bigun]

How about making big noise, that the FBI has had many/most of these perps "on the radar?"

We need a better LEO response when they are warned.

Yes! And we also need to stop making schools free fire zones for the criminally insane!

[driftdiver]

Bullshit.   Requiring car owners to register and insure their vehicles isn't "taking their cars away".  With rights come responsibilities.   Guns are useful, like cars, and exceedingly dangerous just like cars.   

The Second Amendment absolutists are losing all credibility.   The community wants gun ownership to coincide with responsibility,  and there's nothing unreasonable nor unconstitutional about that.   The community will get what it demands, one way or the other.   Care to be part of the solution, or just another mewling fool demanding his "freedom" to be selfish?

Otherwise known as the big lie.  Notice how @Oceander started this tactic and now its been picked up by @Jazzhead   

Leftists will sacrifice ANYTHING to further their cause.  Whether its babies or having to walk on the bodies of these children to further their cause.  Anyone who doesn't agree is being "unreasonable" or "dangerous".

America has over 300 million firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens.   Almost all murders take place in a fraction of the counties in this country.   Most locations are essentially murder free, yet they have lots of firearms.

[edpc]

Bullshit.   Requiring car owners to register and insure their vehicles isn't "taking their cars away".  With rights come responsibilities.   Guns are useful, like cars, and exceedingly dangerous just like cars.   

The Second Amendment absolutists are losing all credibility.   The community wants gun ownership to coincide with responsibility,  and there's nothing unreasonable nor unconstitutional about that.   The community will get what it demands, one way or the other.   Care to be part of the solution, or just another mewling fool demanding his "freedom" to be selfish?

Apples and oranges.  There was never any constitutional right to own a horse, wagon or any form of transportation.  You can't compare something explicitly stated in the Constitution to something that's not.

[Cyber Liberty]

Apples and oranges.  There was never any constitutional right to own a horse, wagon or any form of transportation.  You can't compare something explicitly stated in the Constitution to something that's not.

Jazz thinks he has us "absolutists" (people who think "shall not be infringed" means what it says) on the run, which is why he's being extra-super-obnoxious with his demands we allow him to snap up all the guns.  Happens every time there's a shooting like this.  This is how liberals act when they think they are winning.

[INVAR]

You misunderstand.  Gun restrictions ARE coming...You have a choice to make as a conservative.  Work to make sure the restrictions are reasonable, efficacious and constitutional.   Or let the left dictate what happens to your rights.   But the absolutist position can no longer be maintained.

The Second Amendment absolutists are losing all credibility.   The community wants gun ownership to coincide with responsibility,  and there's nothing unreasonable nor unconstitutional about that.   The community will get what it demands, one way or the other.   Care to be part of the solution, or just another mewling fool demanding his "freedom" to be selfish?   

Speech, press and religious exercise restrictions ARE coming... you have a choice; work to make sure the restrictions are reasonable, efficacious and good for the community - or let the Left dictate the criminalization of thought and belief.  But the absolutist position on the First Amendment can no longer be maintained, Constitutional absolutists are losing all credibility.  The Proletariat will get what it demands, one way or the other.  Care to be part of that solution, or just another selfish fool who believes in liberty?

As I said earlier, what you demand will have bought yourself a war.

Because one thing is absolutely certain - you can ban all semi-automatic weapons for sale - and after the next massacre, you will come back to tell us that  we must make it illegal to have possession of any semi-automatic weapon, and after the next massacre you and your kind will come back and say 'enough is enough, NO ONE may possess any instrument that can be used as a deadly weapon'. 

Erosion of liberty never stops with you people.  Not until you have an entire population subjugated in a police state with only elitists like yourselves being exempt from the tyranny you impose on the rest of us so you can feel safe and secure.

[Cyber Liberty]

Speech, press and religious exercise restrictions ARE coming... you have a choice; work to make sure the restrictions are reasonable, efficacious and good for the community - or let the Left dictate the criminalization of thought and belief.  But the absolutist position on the First Amendment can no longer be maintained, Constitutional absolutists are losing all credibility.  The Proletariat will get what it demands, one way or the other.  Care to be part of that solution, or just another selfish fool who believes in liberty?

As I said earlier, what you demand will have bought yourself a war.

Because one thing is absolutely certain - you can ban all semi-automatic weapons for sale - and after the next massacre, you will come back to tell us that  we must make it illegal to have possession of any semi-automatic weapon, and after the next massacre you and your kind will come back and say 'enough is enough, NO ONE may possess any instrument that can be used as a deadly weapon'. 

Erosion of liberty never stops with you people.  Not until you have an entire population subjugated in a police state with only elitists like yourselves being exempt from the tyranny you impose on the rest of us so you can feel safe and secure.

This is not the time to meekly assume restrictions ARE coming, and start negotiating the terms of our surrender.  Now is the time to dig in to defend our position.

[Jazzhead]

You think they're going to be happy with registration?   That's just the beginning.    Once you give them an inch they will take a mile.  You will be basically conceding to them the point that guns are responsible for the violence.

Guns aren't responsible for violence.  But they sure do facilitate violence.   It's your right to protect your home and hearth by owning a gun (or guns).   But it is the community's right to demand that legal ownership include licensure, registration and insurance, just as everyone accepts with respect to cars. 

[Jazzhead]

This is not the time to meekly assume restrictions ARE coming, and start negotiating the terms of our surrender.  Now is the time to dig in to defend our position.

Go right ahead.    You'll be marginalized, because the absolutist position is no longer tenable (and unsupported by the Constitution - see Justice Scalia about that).   

But you can still choose to be a valuable part of the debate over how to restrict guns in a way that is reasonable, efficacious and constitutional.   Or you can, like INVAR, selfishly threaten to "start a war".   

[Jazzhead]

Jazz thinks he has us "absolutists" (people who think "shall not be infringed" means what it says) on the run, which is why he's being extra-super-obnoxious with his demands we allow him to snap up all the guns.  Happens every time there's a shooting like this.  This is how liberals act when they think they are winning.

No this is how ordinary Americans react when idiots shoot up schools week after week after week.   It's not about "winning" -  17 kids sure as hell didn't win yesterday when a bully with a chip on his shoulder and an AR-15 shot them to death. 

[Cyber Liberty]

Go right ahead.    You'll be marginalized, because the absolutist position is no longer tenable (and unsupported by the Constitution - see Justice Scalia about that).   

But you can still choose to be a valuable part of the debate over how to restrict guns in a way that is reasonable, efficacious and constitutional.   Or you can, like INVAR, selfishly threaten to "start a war".   

I can still be a "valuable part of the debate" by negotiating my surrender?   Go straight to Hell.

So this is how you act when you think you have people on the run.  What a piece of work.

[Smokin Joe]

This is not the time to meekly assume restrictions ARE coming, and start negotiating the terms of our surrender.  Now is the time to dig in to defend our position.

The guns involved are merely the tools used. The problem goes much deeper than that, and the question is one of why in the last three decades these incidents started occurring?

Let's look at the changes in policy (at the school level), in the assumptions made about behaviour, in the ways of dealing with those behaviours from an early age, not just by schools, but by parents and other organizations and see what has changed to foster an environment that makes little monsters who go back to the schools to shoot the place up. Why the schools and not shopping malls or grocery stores?

Because that's where the anger is seeded and grows.
This appears to be as much a developmental issue as anything else, perhaps more so. Medication does not lead to development, nor (apparently) do current policies. Granted there are cultural influences as well (music, media, etc.), but the root of the problem is where the anger is being taken out. Start looking there.

[Sanguine]

The gun-control advocates want one thing and one thing only,  total confiscation,   they're just willing to do it in steps,   give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

So, what's your plan?

[Jazzhead]

Apples and oranges.  There was never any constitutional right to own a horse, wagon or any form of transportation.  You can't compare something explicitly stated in the Constitution to something that's not.

I agree.  The Constitution specifically speaks of guns in the context of a "well regulated militia".    There's Constitutional authority to regulate the gun right (see Heller);  the document's silent about the other stuff.   

[Smokin Joe]

I agree.  The Constitution specifically speaks of guns in the context of a "well regulated militia".    There's Constitutional authority to regulate the gun right (see Heller);  the document's silent about the other stuff.

Yep, the people were to have uninfringed access to their own arms to keep the Army from taking over.

[Sanguine]

Apples and oranges.  There was never any constitutional right to own a horse, wagon or any form of transportation.  You can't compare something explicitly stated in the Constitution to something that's not.

I'm not sure I accept that.  The right to own property is the basis for all of our other rights.  Take that away and we have no real rights.  So, if something is legal and available, and you can afford it, you have a right to own it.  Taking it on the roads may be another issue.

[Oceander]

There are plenty of things that can be done without enacting one single gun law.   

Such as?  Like i said, im not an advocate for gun seizure, but the writing on the wall is clear to me, even if it isn’t to the rest of yall, so something needs to change and the change needs to be effective. 

One more school massacre where it turns out the killer was mentally off but still managed to buy a gun legally, and I give even odds for a successful move to make civilian ownership of fire arms illegal, up to and including an amendment to the Constitution to remove the second amendment. 

[Restored]

Update: A White Supremacist has told reporters that Cruz was an member and participated in "training". 

[Cyber Liberty]

Such as?  Like i said, im not an advocate for gun seizure, but the writing on the wall is clear to me, even if it isn’t to the rest of yall, so something needs to change and the change needs to be effective. 

One more school massacre where it turns out the killer was mentally off but still managed to buy a gun legally, and I give even odds for a successful move to make civilian ownership of fire arms illegal, up to and including an amendment to the Constitution to remove the second amendment.

Nope.  That was said after Columbine, your hero (I assume) even made a movie about it.  It's said after every tragedy like this by the ghouls who hope to use the blood of children to write new laws to further restrict the rights of people who didn't do the crime.

Go ahead and declare "victory" and "inevitable" all you like, I choose to...disagree.

[mystery-ak]

Update: A White Supremacist has told reporters that Cruz was an member and participated in "training".

Yeah just heard that on the radio news...

[truth_seeker]

Guns aren't responsible for violence.  But they sure do facilitate violence.   It's your right to protect your home and hearth by owning a gun (or guns).   But it is the community's right to demand that legal ownership include licensure, registration and insurance, just as everyone accepts with respect to cars.

It is ALSO the community's right, to expect results from LE agencies like the FBI, since we pay them to perform vital public safety functions.

This perp was "on the radar." But the FBI was too busy protecting Hillary and framing Trump.

Blame this one on the FBI. Fix the FBI. That means new laws in 50 states, to REQUIRE that LE detain  suspects, BEFORE, not after mass murders occur.

In my jurisdiction it is called "5150" for the 72 hour hold in cases of "threat to themselves or others."

This perp posted his intent to perform mass murder, the FBI was notified within hours, and proceeded to take no meaningful action.

Fix the Laws and fix the FBI.