Author Topic: Kern County judge rules against State of California in case against Tastries Bakery  (Read 7348 times)

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Offline Jazzhead

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And it is a particularly silly hill for the crusade for religious freedom to commit suicide on, because fighting for the right to be openly discriminatory in a mundane business simply confirms in the minds of the uncommitted all of the worst stereotypes the left pitches about Christians.  Which means that calls for real religious freedom, in ones private life, will end up falling on deaf ears. 


Excellent point.  In the end,  the reputation of the Christian faith is what is at stake here.   If you want the left to win,  keep demanding "rights" that the rest of the community see, and not incorrectly, as naked bigotry.   Again - no one is forcing this baker to provide a good or service she hasn't already promised and advertised to provide.   She wants the right to discriminate in defiance of the community's rules.   Not a very smart hill to die on.   
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Online roamer_1

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So class, can the brake repair service writer turn down the business?

Of course he does.

Offline WingNot

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Just the good ol' boys
Never meanin' no harm
Beats all you've never saw, been in trouble with the law
Since the day they was bornStraightenin' the curve
Flate'nin' the hills
Someday the mountain might get 'em
But the law never willMakin' their way
The only way they know how
That's just a little bit more
Than the law will allow...

Yeee Haaaaw
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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I cannot believe people are droning on endlessly with ANOTHER damn cake thread.

It's too bad that threads are not a living thing. I would take this one into the alley and shoot it between the eyes.
Can you start with the lawyers?  Ambulance chasers run pretty fast, dodge and weave and the practice shooting them will keep you in sharp as a tack.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Jazzhead

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Here is an interesting example: A flamboyant gay man pulls into the brake repair shop bay. He says my brakes seem to be going out.

The service writer, who really dislikes flamboyant gays, tells the guy to go elsewhere-he doesn't want the gay's business. The service writer doesn't bother to even evaluate the safety of the brakes.

A winning civil rights case ??

(Safe vehicles are a community issue. State laws cover brake and tire repairs.)

So class, can the brake repair service writer turn down the business?

He can.  And the victim of his discrimination can sue.   
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Online Hoodat

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Here is an interesting example: A flamboyant gay man pulls into the brake repair shop bay. He says my brakes seem to be going out.

The service writer, who really dislikes flamboyant gays, tells the guy to go elsewhere-he doesn't want the gay's business. The service writer doesn't bother to even evaluate the safety of the brakes.

.  .  . 

So class, can the brake repair service writer turn down the business?


A bigger question here is would the customer be stupid enough to sue the mechanic to force him to work on his brakes.  If it were me, there is no way in hell I would want that guy anywhere near my car.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online roamer_1

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Excellent point.  In the end,  the reputation of the Christian faith is what is at stake here.   If you want the left to win,  keep demanding "rights" that the rest of the community see, and not incorrectly, as naked bigotry.   Again - no one is forcing this baker to provide a good or service she hasn't already promised and advertised to provide.   She wants the right to discriminate in defiance of the community's rules.   Not a very smart hill to die on.

So throw away the law of God because it is uncomfortable or unpopular?
Not going to happen.

When the 'community' is condoning sin, then naturally that is where we part ways.
This is not law. This is lawlessness.

Online Hoodat

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Again - no one is forcing this baker to provide a good or service she hasn't already promised and advertised to provide.

Not true.  The baker did not advertise to provide same-sex wedding cakes.  But you knew that already.  Yet here you are lying about it.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline WingNot

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Can you start with the lawyers?  Ambulance chasers run pretty fast, dodge and weave and the practice shooting them will keep you in sharp as a tack.

Both of our TBR Lawyers here are fully on the Rainbow to hell. We could use them for a little target practice .
"I'm a man, but I changed, because I had to. Oh well."

Online roamer_1

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Not true.  The baker did not advertise to provide same-sex wedding cakes.  But you knew that already.  Yet here you are lying about it.

Not even that.
ADVERTISEMENT IS NOT A PROMISE.

Offline Jazzhead

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If I were a painter who specialized in portraits, and a potential customer came to me and said, "I want you to paint my portrait, and here's the picture I expect you to paint:  In my portrait, I'll be sodomizing a 4-year-old child at the same time I'm shooting a police officer. Since you advertised you paint portraits, I'm sure you'll do this for me, won't you?"

Am I required by law to paint what this customer wants?

A portrait painter who works on commission is not a public accommodation subject to the anti-discrimination laws at issue here.  But even if he were,  he could refuse to paint a portrait deemed offensive.  Just as the baker can refuse to write "God loves gays" on a cake.   But the right demanded by these bakers appears to be to turn down the business ab initio.   Not on the basis of the customization required or the particular message sought for the cake.   But simply because the cake will be eaten at a reception for two gays who've chosen to marry under the civil law.   
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Offline Jazzhead

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Not true.  The baker did not advertise to provide same-sex wedding cakes.  But you knew that already.  Yet here you are lying about it.

There are no "same-sex wedding cakes".  Just vanilla and chocolate ones.    :cool:

But seriously, she advertised "wedding cakes".  How was the customer to know that her service applied to everyone else's wedding but his?   That's textbook discrimination.   
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Offline Millee

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I cannot believe people are droning on endlessly with ANOTHER damn cake thread.

It's too bad that threads are not a living thing. I would take this one into the alley and shoot it between the eyes.

Amen.   11513

Online roamer_1

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But seriously, she advertised "wedding cakes".  How was the customer to know that her service applied to everyone else's wedding but his?   That's textbook discrimination.

So what? I advertise computer repair, and I turn down work all the time because I don't do Mac.
Just because I repair computers doesn't mean I repair ALL computers. There is no reason for disclaimer, and there is no harm to the prospective client - especially, as in this case, if I refer  him to a Mac guy.

Offline Sanguine

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A portrait painter who works on commission is not a public accommodation subject to the anti-discrimination laws at issue here.  But even if he were,  he could refuse to paint a portrait deemed offensive.  Just as the baker can refuse to write "God loves gays" on a cake.   But the right demanded by these bakers appears to be to turn down the business ab initio.   Not on the basis of the customization required or the particular message sought for the cake.   But simply because the cake will be eaten at a reception for two gays who've chosen to marry under the civil law.

OK, now here's a good example of a dishonest argument.  If the couple had asked for a plain cake, I expect that the baker would have provided it.  The problem is that they wanted a same-sex-wedding-cake, as in with two men or two women as the topper and some sentiment expressed about their nuptials.  That's a problem for a standard-issue Christian.

"simply because the cake will be eaten at a reception for two gays who've chosen to marry under the civil law..."  Jazzhead doesn't know this to be true, however he makes the claim that it is. That is dishonest. 

Additionally, the baker never knows who will be eating his/her cake.  Will there be gays at the wedding?  Men and women living together but not married?  People with criminal pasts?  Obnoxious men and mean women?  Maybe, but no way to tell nor any reason to.  That's a dishonest argument.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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I cannot believe people are droning on endlessly with ANOTHER damn cake thread.

It's too bad that threads are not a living thing. I would take this one into the alley and shoot it between the eyes.

 88devil

Offline Jazzhead

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So throw away the law of God because it is uncomfortable or unpopular?
Not going to happen.

When the 'community' is condoning sin, then naturally that is where we part ways.
This is not law. This is lawlessness.

There is no "law of God" that demands that any Christian act like an arsehole towards his customer.   The baker made her promise; she should stay true to her word.   
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Offline Frank Cannon

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I don't give a damn who anyone wants to sleep with.

Well I do care who people sleep with and I want people to start posting pictures. Want to start a "Hot or Not" section.

Online Hoodat

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There is no "law of God" that demands that any Christian act like an arsehole towards his customer. 

Of course that didn't happen.  But then you knew that already.  Yet you still choose to offer a false narrative of events.  That makes you a liar.


The baker made her promise; she should stay true to her word.

The baker did not promise anyone to make a same-gender wedding cake.  But then you knew that already.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Jazzhead

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OK, now here's a good example of a dishonest argument.  If the couple had asked for a plain cake, I expect that the baker would have provided it.  The problem is that they wanted a same-sex-wedding-cake, as in with two men or two women as the topper and some sentiment expressed about their nuptials.  That's a problem for a standard-issue Christian.

"simply because the cake will be eaten at a reception for two gays who've chosen to marry under the civil law..."  Jazzhead doesn't know this to be true, however he makes the claim that it is. That is dishonest. 

Additionally, the baker never knows who will be eating his/her cake.  Will there be gays at the wedding?  Men and women living together but not married?  People with criminal pasts?  Obnoxious men and mean women?  Maybe, but no way to tell nor any reason to.  That's a dishonest argument.

Oh, please.  The baker will gladly bake a cake for a straight wedding and not care a whit whether the groom pulls his pants down and plants his ass balls-deep in the frosting.   

"Gay marriage" is solely a creation of the civil law.  It has no religious significance whatsoever.    The baker should bake the cake,  because that's what he promised he'd do, secure in the knowledge that it's God's job, not his, to punish this couple for daring to want to be happy.   
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Online Hoodat

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Well I do care who people sleep with and I want people to start posting pictures. Want to start a "Hot or Not" section.

Hot?  Or not?

If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online roamer_1

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There is no "law of God" that demands that any Christian act like an arsehole towards his customer.   The baker made her promise; she should stay true to her word.

The owner didn't act like an bleep. The owner even recommended another vendor.
And the baker made no promise. Advertisement is not a promise at all.
And there was no word to keep, because there was no contract. no money changed hands, no verbal or written agreement.

Offline WingNot

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Well I do care who people sleep with and I want people to start posting pictures. Want to start a "Hot or Not" section.

Bullshit  Lets have a Pig Roast contest!   
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Offline Jazzhead

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Of course that didn't happen.  But then you knew that already.  Yet you still choose to offer a false narrative of events.  That makes you a liar.


The baker did not promise anyone to make a same-gender wedding cake.  But then you knew that already.

The baker arbitrarily refused to provide the service she advertised to provide.  That makes her an arsehole.  Whether that makes her a lawbreaker will be up to the court to decide.   
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Offline Sanguine

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Oh, please.  The baker will gladly bake a cake for a straight wedding and not care a whit whether the groom pulls his pants down and plants his ass balls-deep in the frosting.   

....

I don't think that is anatomically possible. 

And, it's clear you know you've lost the argument when you resort to obscenity to attempt to make your case.