Trump uses State of the Union to go all in on immigration reform

[libertybele]

Also, let us not forget, it is never just the one citizen, at a minimum,  it is immediate family, so their one vote can now mean 4 votes X 1.8 million.

Wow.  Something that you and I actually agree on. 

Bottom line, at the end of the day ... the DEMS at the very minimum have been given an additional 1.8 MILLION new voters.  So ... what again is the GOP getting in exchange?  A wall that is going to be built in the future and funded with future dollars and talk of ending chain migration which is futile at best and will become null and void once the DEMS have complete control of Congress for decades to come.  Wake up people!!

[skeeter]

Also, let us not forget, it is never just the one citizen, at a minimum,  it is immediate family, so their one vote can now mean 4 votes X 1.8 million.

Correct. It would not surprise me if that many votes in a few key districts will make a difference nationally.

Proponents of the presidents plan say they won't receive citizenship right away, but I will bet my retirement savings they'll get it long before 12 years have passed.

Incidentally, I don't think it would be unreasonable to subject "Dreamer" applicants to an english aptitude test. If they truly were brought here by their parents when young they should be 100% proficient in english.

[Right_in_Virginia]

First of all in reading what you you stated "for the children brought to America at a young age" .. #1  How did they come up with the 1.8 figure?   You mean to tell me that out of the conservative 11,000,000 illegals here that only 1.8 million were brought here as kids?  I find that figure doubtful.  Secondly, the argument has been made not to punish the kids -- ok -- then their parents who are at fault should be punished and deported ... BUT that's not going to happen as the DEMS have and will scream that you can't separate families!  Which bring us to change migration -- in essence if you allow the parents to stay that's allowing chain migration ... so if we have 1.8 million dreamers x 2 parents that figure just rose from 1.8 to 3.6 million ... when does ending chain migration begin -- for those already here?  It's going to be allowed for those who are already here ... because they are supposedly building a wall and not allowing anymore illegals in -- so of course they can agree to ending chain migration at that point. 

Amnesty is still amnesty and ending chain migration after the fact is futile.  Yes, we can and have deported large numbers of illegals.  IMHO the ONLY way to resolve this issue is to give them a chance to self-deport with a promise of allowing them to apply for citizenship at a future date and those that don't self deport, if caught will NEVER have a chance for citizenship. 

All this smoke and mirrors of this only granting amnesty in the future to a select 1.8 million is very deceptive.  What about the rest of the 9,200,000 illegals here?  My hunch is that they are going to demand amnesty; if its granted to one sector of the illegal population they should be entitled as well.  That is why no amnesty needs to stay no amnesty and illegal is illegal period.  BUILD A WALL AND DEPORT! 

We are not going to deport these people @libertybele    We simply are not.  Screaming about it, pounding your fingers on the keyboard, spamming threads with it .... won't change this reality.

We either learn from Reagan's mistake and get meaningful reform in exchange or we blow the whole thing up giving Democrats a path to unlimited voters until the end of time ... with no one to blame but ourselves.

[libertybele]

Correct. It would not surprise me if that many votes in a few key districts will make a difference nationally.

Proponents of the presidents plan say they won't receive citizenship right away, but I will bet my retirement savings they'll get it long before 12 years have passed.

Incidentally, I don't think it would be unreasonable to subject "Dreamer" applicants to an english aptitude test. If they truly were brought here by their parents when young they should be 100% proficient in english.

Not to worry ... voting ballots have been printed in Spanish for quite awhile; they don't need to learn English for the purpose that the DEMS want them here.  Nope ... deport them, their parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc., and vet them -- those that pass vetting restrictions will be eligible to be considered for legal re-entry.  Those that are outside that 1.8 million -- they shouldn't be eligible EVER to be considered for legal re-entry.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Not to worry ... voting ballots have been printed in Spanish for quite awhile; they don't need to learn English for the purpose that the DEMS want them here.  Nope ... deport them, their parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc., and vet them -- those that pass vetting restrictions will be eligible to be considered for legal re-entry.  Those that are outside that 1.8 million -- they shouldn't be eligible EVER to be considered for legal re-entry.

 

[aligncare]

So did you apply for citizenship?

I used myself simply as an example of someone who was brought here at an early age. But my parents came here legally and I held a green card for years before applying for naturalization. I served in Vietnam and I am a proud American.

I just happen to think it doesn’t help the cause of immigration reform to demonize the children brought here illegally by their parents. It just paints us as gratuitously heartless. Our objective should be immigration reform not punishing a tiny group of people who had no say in how they got to America.

[Emjay]

Wow.  Something that you and I actually agree on. 

Bottom line, at the end of the day ... the DEMS at the very minimum have been given an additional 1.8 MILLION new voters.  So ... what again is the GOP getting in exchange?  A wall that is going to be built in the future and funded with future dollars and talk of ending chain migration which is futile at best and will become null and void once the DEMS have complete control of Congress for decades to come.  Wake up people!!

So, you're saying the wall can't be built in a day and that ending chain migration is just a dream but you believe the so-called Dreamers can vote tomorrow.

I know this is your core issue but ...

[Right_in_Virginia]

I used myself simply as an example of someone who was brought here at an early age. But my parents came here legally and I held a green card for years before applying for naturalization. I served in Vietnam and I am a proud American.

I just happen to think it doesn’t help the cause of immigration reform to demonize the children brought here illegally by their parents. It just paints us as gratuitously heartless. Our objective should be immigration reform not punishing a tiny group of people who had no say in how they got to America.

 

[libertybele]

We are not going to deport these people @libertybele    We simply are not.  Screaming about it, pounding your fingers on the keyboard, spamming threads with it .... won't change this reality.

We either learn from Reagan's mistake and get meaningful reform in exchange or we blow the whole thing up giving Democrats a path to unlimited voters until the end of time ... with no one to blame but ourselves.

You missed the point RIV.  The GOP is giving the DEMS at minimum 1.8 million new voters.  So any meaningful reform that the GOP thinks that they are getting will be gone one the retake their majority ... along with the sovereignty of our country.  So yes, go ahead and pat Trump on the back for this one as his supporters gave him an absolute pass on this and now that he's made his intentions public, we're screwed.  He promised NO amnesty when he was campaigning which garnered his massive support in the beginning and he absolutely backpedaled on this issue. 

[skeeter]

Not to worry ... voting ballots have been printed in Spanish for quite awhile; they don't need to learn English for the purpose that the DEMS want them here.  Nope ... deport them, their parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc., and vet them -- those that pass vetting restrictions will be eligible to be considered for legal re-entry.  Those that are outside that 1.8 million -- they shouldn't be eligible EVER to be considered for legal re-entry.

I absolutely understand your POV. I'm afraid there will have to be yet another accommodation made for the 'dreamers', even though we know the left is just using them as a ploy to shovel another few million newly minted voters onto the roles and has NO intention of compromising.

We can only hope that in their zeal to legalize these particular people the left and chamber of commerce right let some real, enforceable reforms slip through their net and become codefied. Remember there are 20 million more illegals out there to be dealt with.

[Right_in_Virginia]

You missed the point RIV.  The GOP is giving the DEMS at minimum 1.8 million new voters.  So any meaningful reform that the GOP thinks that they are getting will be gone one the retake their majority ... along with the sovereignty of our country.  So yes, go ahead and pat Trump on the back for this one as his supporters gave him an absolute pass on this and now that he's made his intentions public, we're screwed.  He promised NO amnesty when he was campaigning which garnered his massive support in the beginning and he absolutely backpedaled on this issue.

I didn't miss *your* point @libertybele  I disagree with it.  The deportation you are screaming for will not make us safer or stronger.   We're only "screwed" if we fail to get immigration REFORM. 

To be clear, I am not giving the President a pass .... I am giving him a thumbs up for developing four pillars that will give America control of her borders again and close the immigration loopholes that harm us.  Thumbs up for putting America first now .... and for generations.

My point is: You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. ... and that's a foolish and non-productive strategy.

[libertybele]

So, you're saying the wall can't be built in a day and that ending chain migration is just a dream but you believe the so-called Dreamers can vote tomorrow.

I know this is your core issue but ...

Trump stated that he asked for $$$ to be put into a trust fund for a wall = future $$ for a future wall.  They won't be able to apply ending of chain migration to the Dreamers -- otherwise their parents, uncles, grandparents, cousins, aunts would be deported -- that's not going to fly.  So yes,  whether they can vote now or in a decade is to be seen, but one thing is for sure -- we've handed millions of future voters to the DEMS.

Many disagree with me (in fact most) but when we begin to lose our sovereignty and our rights as U.S. citizens, who are you going to turn to?  The DEM majority Congress or the DEM president??    When we are faced with muslim 'refugees' pouring into this country who are we going to turn to, to stop them?  The DEM majority in Congress or the DEM president?  Joey Kennedy quickly pointed out last night, that if we build a wall, they will tear it down ... who's going to stop them?  The DEM Congress or DEM president?  Good luck with that.

[sneakypete]

I used myself simply as an example of someone who was brought here at an early age. But my parents came here legally and I held a green card for years before applying for naturalization. I served in Vietnam and I am a proud American.

@aligncare

Ok,so nothing you wrote would actually apply to you.

I just happen to think it doesn’t help the cause of immigration reform to demonize the children brought here illegally by their parents. It just paints us as gratuitously heartless.

Governments are SUPPOSED to be heartless,not emotional. One of the primereasons why governments exist is to enact and enforce laws. A nation that can't or doesn't control it's borders and who come across them is not a government.

Our objective should be immigration reform not punishing a tiny group of people who had no say in how they got to America.

It is NOT a "tiny group". It is MILLIONS of people,most of whom seem to have came here purely for economic reasons,and had no actual desire to become Americans. By remaining here,they are breaking our nations laws,and common sense and logic  will tell you that nobody should be rewarded for breaking laws.

If I had my way,everyone here illegally would be deported as found and caught,and NOBODY that had to be found and caught would ever be allowed to apply for citizenship,or even a work permit or visa to come here to visit.

What SHOULD be done,but is probably a political impossibility is to make an announcement that "starting 90 days from now,any illegal alien still found to be living in the US will be arrested and deported,and will never again be allowed to enter the US legally under any circumstances,or to apply for citizenship.

Any who self-deport BEFORE that 90 day period and keep the paperwork to prove that they had been living here for years without breaking any other laws,and who had lived responsible laws while here will be given priority treatment when applying for citizenship,if they choose to do so. To qualify,they MUST have proof of work,school,and resident address history,and they MUST be able to read,write,and speak clear English.

As a rider to a new immigration bill,any future applicants for visas to come here to live and work or to apply for citizenship MUST be able to read,speak,and write clearly in English.

[truth_seeker]

Sneaky, a minor does not have "capacity" under the law, so whatever happened in their youth was no fault of their own.

I say vet them carefully, kick the gangbangers out but let the good ones stay.

Granting them citizenship in 12 years time, is the same time table as putting them at the back of the line.

Finally since the prospects of physically deporting large numbers is virtually zero, the benefits 0f the wall, ending the lottery and ending chain immigration, come with little to no actual costs.

[truth_seeker]

The majority of them are no longer children.  I would think that if they were truly interested in citizenship, they would have acted before now -- yes, I understand that Bammy made this all possible, but at they end of the day, those that are here need to accept some responsibility.

They did. They signed up for DACA.

[TomSea]

Wow.  Something that you and I actually agree on. 

Bottom line, at the end of the day ... the DEMS at the very minimum have been given an additional 1.8 MILLION new voters.  So ... what again is the GOP getting in exchange?  A wall that is going to be built in the future and funded with future dollars and talk of ending chain migration which is futile at best and will become null and void once the DEMS have complete control of Congress for decades to come.  Wake up people!!

Actually,  it's  a 1.8 estimate of people that will have a pathway to citizenship BUT,

70% of immigration currently is chain immigration.
http://www.oann.com/dhs-chain-migration-makes-up-70-of-legal-immigration/

And check figures, right now, we have about 1.3 million immigrants coming in every year,
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states

So, I backed that up, so 70% of 1.3 million is close to a million coming in every year anyway. So which is worse, 1.8 in a one term deal and no rights to vote for 10-12 years? Or one million coming in year after year?

We are in a horse trading stage right now.

Bottom line, maybe allowing "chain migration" to continued to exist is about as bad as anything to begin with and even at this stage, it will take years to fully shut down the chain migration spigot, maybe 17 years. So, I'm not okay with this part but it might be a place to start bargaining.

[truth_seeker]

Also, let us not forget, it is never just the one citizen, at a minimum,  it is immediate family, so their one vote can now mean 4 votes X 1.8 million.

Ending that practice, is one of the points in this proposal.

[libertybele]

I didn't miss *your* point @libertybele  I disagree with it.  The deportation you are screaming for will not make us safer or stronger.   We're only "screwed" if we fail to get immigration REFORM. 

To be clear, I am not giving the President a pass .... I am giving him a thumbs up for developing four pillars that will give America control of her borders again and close the immigration loopholes that harm us.  Thumbs up for putting America first now .... and for generations.

My point is: You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. ... and that's a foolish and non-productive strategy.

Yep, he can develop all the pillars he wants, but it doesn't change the fact that he just handed the DEMS millions of voters.  Enough voters that there is a strong possibility that you won't see another GOP seated at least for a very long time.  So those 'pillars' are a mute point.   Sorry, RIV but the DEMS haven't put America first since the days of LBJ and they sure as heck aren't going to start once they've captured the majority...you can't give the other side an enormous advantage and expect them to keep their end of the bargain. Bammy proved that with his e.o. to begin with, even though it was unconstitutional.  No one stopped him then and obviously no one is stopping him now ... even IF the SCOTUS rules that DACA was unconstitutional, Trump has already given them what they wanted; for a promise of a future wall and a promise to end chain migration which is I believe futile as explained earlier.

[sneakypete]

Sneaky, a minor does not have "capacity" under the law, so whatever happened in their youth was no fault of their own.


@truth_seeker

Nor should it be a benefit.

I say vet them carefully, kick the gangbangers out but let the good ones stay.

I say give them all 90 days to self-deport,and then let the ones who can prove they can read,write,and speak clear English,and who can document where they lived while here before,what schools they went to,what jobs they had,and what names they lived under so a criminal background check can be made,should then be given priority screening if they want to apply for a visa to come here and become American citizens.

The ones that can't prove all the above,are kept out.

Granting them citizenship in 12 years time, is the same time table as putting them at the back of the line.

Not if they are allowed to live and work here while waiting.

Finally since the prospects of physically deporting large numbers is virtually zero,

Says who? When was it actually tried and failed?

The government should announce that any illegals still caught living here after a certain date will NEVER be allowed to even get a seasonal work visa to come here again. They will be banned for life.

.

[TomSea]

Agree, this starting proposal does not end "chain migration" totally but at least, it will be immediate family. Chain Migration now, can allow up to 30 people plus to come in.

[libertybele]

Ending that practice, is one of the points in this proposal.

...and by handing the DEMS more voters that will ensure that they have the majority for a very long time, who is going to stop them from once again allowing chain migration?  Further amnesty?  Tearing down the wall if it ever gets built?  Any immigration reform can and will be reversed.  This was our chance to deport and build a wall and to keep the GOP majority or at least enough members of the party to keep some checks and balances.

[anubias]

I can’t believe we’re arguing over this after that barn-burner of a SOTU last night.  I find it stunning actually.

Someone here pointed out that Trump has tweeted that the offer was made to point out to the American People how bad Ds are in another thread.  That’s what he was obviously doubling down on last night.  The entire SOTU was a skull-poke of Obama and the D’s with a celebration of Americans unless I saw a different SOTU than y’all did last night. 

From what I understand, and somebody please let me know if I’m wrong, Trump withdrew the offer after Schmuckie turned down the offer to ensure that Schmuckie didn’t realize he’d been had and call Trump’s bluff by accepting it.  Now the Congress needs to put through a bill via reconciliation that stops the flood over the border.  This needs to happen ASAP or the flood is going to continue.  We should be writing/calling our Congress folks DEMANDING a bill that puts the brakes on immigration without giving amnesty to any more than the original 800K “dreamers” that Trump promised during his campaign.  (I’ll be calling for 0 dreamers, but I doubt the pubbies will do it.)

While I don’t like the 800K getting amnesty either, I did vote for the man even after he said he was going to take care of the dreamers.  Since I voted for him knowing his intentions, I have no bitch coming as long as he sticks to his campaign promise.  Even some of the dreamers are saying they want a wall too.  LOL

There’s a reason Pelosi and Schumer looked like they had peach pits shoved up their butts last night.  They know they were Trumped.  They’re most likely going to lose their DACA crap for 2018 and 2020 which is all they have.  We are winning!

[TomSea]

I used myself simply as an example of someone who was brought here at an early age. But my parents came here legally and I held a green card for years before applying for naturalization. I served in Vietnam and I am a proud American.

I just happen to think it doesn’t help the cause of immigration reform to demonize the children brought here illegally by their parents. It just paints us as gratuitously heartless. Our objective should be immigration reform not punishing a tiny group of people who had no say in how they got to America.

Enough of your demonizations as well, from what I can tell, you are writing from a deep blue state.

We had one amnesty already, it's not the sole cause but now, California is a deep blue state, legislation though it didn't pass, on home-abortions? Please, and that was the state of Ronald Reagan.

Demonizing those illegally in our country 

But I like and agree with most you say @aligncare , I think this all is just the opening act.

Chain migration is already bringing in 1,000,000 new democrat voters a year @libertybele  , oh, right, it will be easily reversed? I guess one can say that about anything.  1.8 million, and estimate, surely won't make the cut to citizenship.

Anyway, as things stand, I don't see this bill passed but it is a start.

[TomSea]

It will take 60 votes or something like that to change some of these things, DACA gives the presidency some leverage.  If chain migration ever went out, I think it'd be hard to bring back. These are questions of procedure. I wonder why chain migration would take quite a number of years to phase out, but I would think these lawyers know somewhat what they are doing.

[libertybele]

I can’t believe we’re arguing over this after that barn-burner of a SOTU last night.  I find it stunning actually.

Someone here pointed out that Trump has tweeted that the offer was made to point out to the American People how bad Ds are in another thread.  That’s what he was obviously doubling down on last night.  The entire SOTU was a skull-poke of Obama and the D’s with a celebration of Americans unless I saw a different SOTU than y’all did last night. 

From what I understand, and somebody please let me know if I’m wrong, Trump withdrew the offer after Schmuckie turned down the offer to ensure that Schmuckie didn’t realize he’d been had and call Trump’s bluff by accepting it.  Now the Congress needs to put through a bill via reconciliation that stops the flood over the border.  This needs to happen ASAP or the flood is going to continue.  We should be writing/calling our Congress folks DEMANDING a bill that puts the brakes on immigration without giving amnesty to any more than the original 800K “dreamers” that Trump promised during his campaign.  (I’ll be calling for 0 dreamers, but I doubt the pubbies will do it.)


While I don’t like the 800K getting amnesty either, I did vote for the man even after he said he was going to take care of the dreamers.  Since I voted for him knowing his intentions, I have no bitch coming as long as he sticks to his campaign promise.  Even some of the dreamers are saying they want a wall too.  LOL

There’s a reason Pelosi and Schumer looked like they had peach pits shoved up their butts last night.  They know they were Trumped.  They’re most likely going to lose their DACA crap for 2018 and 2020 which is all they have.  We are winning!

At the very least!!