Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election

[DiogenesLamp]

Oh yeah pal? Show me where I am wrong about your Hero Roy the kiddie raper....

Kiddie raper?   Yeah,  you are one class act.   


And the point of discourse with you is what?    What possible argument could be put forth to sway the mind of someone who characterizes a man as a "kiddie raper"  on the basis of dubious accusations deliberately spread by his enemies?   

[Frank Cannon]

Once more, with feeling....

Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America
Nowhere in the Constitution of the United States is the power to regulate marriage, in any sense, delegated to the Federal Government.

The Alabama Constitution, by Amendment voted for by 81% of the electorate specified that marriage is to be only between one man and one woman. That specification in the Constitution of the State of Alabama, especially with the overwhelming approval of the voters is law, and is compliant with the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

A federal Judge--ANY Federal Judge ruling to overturn the Constitution of The State of Alabama (or any other State) on the matter concerning marriage is usurping an authority not Granted to the Federal Government by the Constitution of the United States.  The ruling should be void.

At least the Soviets are honest about their dictatorship/oligarchy.

So the Constitution covers gays making the United States the focus of evil in the modern world and that is why Moore is akin to Putin?

You can defend this azzhole dirtbag comment Moore made. Most rational, America loving people will run away from it.

[Frank Cannon]

Kiddie raper?   Yeah,  you are one class act.   


And the point of discourse with you is what?    What possible argument could be put forth to sway the mind of someone who characterizes a man as a "kiddie raper"  on the basis of dubious accusations deliberately spread by his enemies?   

The point of discourse for me today is to laugh and mock people who are circling the wagons around a piece of human shit who got fully rejected by a solid red state last night.

I know I shouldn't make fun of Moore too much. His lawyer is Jewish after all.

[Silver Pines]

@CatherineofAragon
yes you're a perfect angel, you've been wronged but have never done wrong.  Nope you treat all with respect and love.


bwahahahahahahaha

we need a tiny violin emoji

@driftdiver

Oh, HELL, no, I'm not even yelling distance to an angel.

But for the record, I'll put you down as yet another who has no problem with insulting a dead veteran.

'Murica!

[DiogenesLamp]

No, he lost because citizens of his state in this representative republic didn't want him to represent them. 

Well they did so by large margins until only a short time ago.    You are espousing an "effect"  without a "cause."   

What caused the change in the opinions of his fellow citizens?   


You are ignoring the causality.    By not understanding the nature of what happened,   you won't be prepared to deal with it when it happens again in the future.   


The same trick will get played on some,  over and over and over again. 

[driftdiver]

The next person who tells me I have to vote for the Republican candidate to "save us from the Democrats" is going to get a punch in the nose. 

Unless you are a complete moron, this election should prove to you once and for all that the Republicans are just as corrupt, incompetent, lying and backstabbing as the Democrats and certainly as liberal.  They can't even be loyal to and support their own candidate in an election.  In fact, they actively worked to sabotage his election.  All because they were in a snit because their handpicked  candidate in the primaries wad rejected by the voters.   The candidate was a conservative and the party hates conservatives. If you are a conservative, you do not have a home in the Republican party.  If all that isn't clear to you after this election debacle, I don't know what I can do to make you understand. 

Here and now, I declare I won't be voting Republican ever again.  Let the Democrats take over -- looks like they will anyway.  Sorry, Republicans, you lost my membership and now you've lost my vote.  Hey, if you don't care if you win or lose, why should I?

@Applewood
It sounds better if you stamp your feel and scream loudly.  it really completes the little baby girl image.

[DiogenesLamp]

Psssst.... Hate to break it you, but Trump isn't a conservative.

Neither was Bush,   but he made all the right noises to keep the dupes fooled.   Bush talked a good game but did little in the way of action.   


Trump is giving us action,  or was,  until some of his "allies" helped throw this stumbling block into his path. 

[driftdiver]

Well they did so by large margins until only a short time ago.    You are espousing an "effect"  without a "cause."   

What caused the change in the opinions of his fellow citizens?   


You are ignoring the causality.    By not understanding the nature of what happened,   you won't be prepared to deal with it when it happens again in the future.   


The same trick will get played on some,  over and over and over again.

@DiogenesLamp
  They sure didnt mind the out of state money that helped elect jones

[driftdiver]

Neither was Bush,   but he made all the right noises to keep the dupes fooled.   Bush talked a good game but did little in the way of action.   


Trump is giving us action,  or was,  until some of his "allies" helped throw this stumbling block into his path.

@DiogenesLamp
Now the republicans can just say "we dont have the votes in the Senate"

[dfwgator]

@DiogenesLamp
Now the republicans can just say "we dont have the votes in the Senate"

Yep,  all the perks, none of the responsibility,  that's the "GOPe Way."

[DiogenesLamp]

Thanks for clowning yourself in public here today. I needed a laugh. Your pal Moore thinks everything past the 10th Amendment is garbage

He thinks Most of the Amendments past the 10th were garbage,   and so do I.    I have thought this since long before I ever heard of Roy Moore,    but I'm sure you won't bother to debate the actual pros and cons of the amendments after the first 10,  because it's easier to mock than it is to think,   and some people are just too lazy to do anything else. 

[Jazzhead]

The candidate was a conservative and the party hates conservatives. If you are a conservative, you do not have a home in the Republican party.  If all that isn't clear to you after this election debacle, I don't know what I can do to make you understand.

Oh, stop whining, Applewood.   Mo Brooks and Luther Strange are good conservatives, and either would have coasted to victory with the full support of the Republican party.  Moore lost because he was an astonishingly bad candidate, with baggage both legal and moral,  and he was lazy as hell to boot. 

The GOP, and President Trump, dodged a bullet with the defeat of this assclown.   The voters rejected Moore just as they elected President Trump.   May the voters' choices be respected.     

 

[Silver Pines]

[Bigun]

He thinks Most of the Amendments past the 10th were garbage,   and so do I.    I have thought this since long before I ever heard of Roy Moore,    but I'm sure you won't bother to debate the actual pros and cons of the amendments after the first 10,  because it's easier to mock than it is to think,   and some people are just too lazy to do anything else.

Several of those amendments were ratified under the business end of guns but that shouldn't matter should it?  /s

[driftdiver]

@driftdiver

Oh, HELL, no, I'm not even yelling distance to an angel.

But for the record, I'll put you down as yet another who has no problem with insulting a dead veteran.

'Murica!

@CatherineofAragon
No, I didn't insult a dead veteran and you know it.  But as usualy you speak with your emotions and bitchyness.

You are mean and nasty to anyone who doesn't agree with you and then act all offended when you get called on it.

[DiogenesLamp]

You know if you keep saying irrational things over and over, it doesn't make it so.....unless you are a 14 year old girl that Roy likes to hit on.

I have cited specific examples where Roy has either said or was fired over being a Constitutional illiterate. Do you claim that none of that happened?

I do.   What you have cited were accusations,  and for some reason in your mind they have the weight of actual proven facts.     


Would love to explore the "Constitutional"  claims you are making,    but can see it would be rather pointless to nail down some actual truth.   


We don't need it anymore.  We don't debate,   we trade mindless imprecations.   

[Mod1]

Keep it relatively civil and stay away from personal insults.  That's all we ask. 

Pissing contests result in both sides losing and becoming damp.

[goodwithagun]

@CatherineofAragon
No, I didn't insult a dead veteran and you know it.  But as usualy you speak with your emotions and bitchyness.

You are mean and nasty to anyone who doesn't agree with you and then act all offended when you get called on it.

Quite a comment from a person who got a thread shut down by posting nasty religious comments.

[Silver Pines]

@driftdiver

No, I didn't insult a dead veteran and you know it.

Where'd I say you did?

But as usualy you speak with your emotions and bitchyness.

You are mean and nasty to anyone who doesn't agree with you and then act all offended when you get called on it.

Insult my dead father, who put his life on the line for your ass, I'm the meanest bitch you ever saw.  Same if you try to excuse the insult or if you have a problem with me calling it out.

[DiogenesLamp]

Similar to the day care ritual child abuse hysteria of the 80’s, Americans (and the Western world) are now fully gripped in a mass hysteria warlock hunt. This can only end badly for families, community and country.

When I was growing up,  My sixth grade teacher was a big fan of World War II.   He had brought numerous books on the subject to the class,   and many of us were enthralled.   


Since that time,   I  have been involved in innumerable debates regarding Hitler's rise to power,   and how so many Germans could have turned into such vicious people regarding the Jews.    Till the 21st century came along,   I and my friends could make no headway in explaining this intractable problem of how the Germans went full Nazi.     


Now I grasp the role of "Preference Cascade" (Positive Feedback Loop)  and propaganda in achieving "group think"  the sort of which causes otherwise decent people to turn into monsters.   


Since the rise of Obama,   I now see how fascism gains a grip on a populace. 

[driftdiver]

@driftdiver

Where'd I say you did?

Insult my dead father, who put his life on the line for your ass, I'm the meanest bitch you ever saw.  Same if you try to excuse the insult or if you have a problem with me calling it out.

@CatherineofAragon
Do you even read what you post?   Perhaps its a comprehension problem.   Maybe you just need to relax and calm down.  Have a glass of wine and some midol.

[skeeter]

Oh, stop whining, Applewood.   Mo Brooks and Luther Strange are good conservatives, and either would have coasted to victory with the full support of the Republican party.  Moore lost because he was an astonishingly bad candidate, with baggage both legal and moral,  and he was lazy as hell to boot. 

The GOP, and President Trump, dodged a bullet with the defeat of this assclown.   The voters rejected Moore just as they elected President Trump.   May the voters' choices be respected.   

The fact Moore was outspent 14 to 1 probably has nothing to do with it, right?

Spare us the bloviating.

[mountaineer]

The election is over, so hey! Let's turn on one another! Yay.

Instead, we might consider supporting actual constitutional conservatives who will run for the US Senate in 2018. In my state,  Patrick Morrisey will face Joe Manchin, if he can win the GOP primary inMay.

[Mod1]

Thank you all for helping out.  I sure would hate to close this down because a few people just can't control themselves.

[driftdiver]

The election is over, so hey! Let's turn on one another! Yay.

Instead, we might consider supporting actual constitutional conservatives who will run for the US Senate in 2018. In my state,  Patrick Morrisey will face Joe Manchin, if he can win the GOP primary inMay.

Why would a decent person put themselves and their family thru this kind of junk?

[andy58-in-nh]

Like Luther Strange?   God!  Why do I even bother?

Yes, even Luther Strange would have beaten Doug Jones.

Conservatives ought not demand perfection in their candidates. But they have every reason to reject ones who are deeply, and in electoral terms, fatally, flawed.

Partisanship isn’t worth grotesque moral compromise. h/t - David French

[skeeter]

The election is over, so hey! Let's turn on one another! Yay.

Instead, we might consider supporting actual constitutional conservatives who will run for the US Senate in 2018. In my state,  Patrick Morrisey will face Joe Manchin, if he can win the GOP primary inMay.

What makes you think they'll be treated any differently?

Rinse, wash, repeat.

[DiogenesLamp]

We're just a bunch of nobodies commenting on one political forum out of dozens. All the self righteous harping and gloating here didn't/won't effect anything.

Ever hear of six degrees of separation?    The "butterfly effect"?    To assert that none of this could have any effect is not a well thought out position.   


It may very well have had an effect,  and unless every connection with everything that happened here is explored,   we cannot accurately say that it didn't.   


What we can say would  have had no deleterious effects is refusing to help the enemy spread their propaganda.    This can be proven by the logic of cause preceding effect.   If there is no "cause",   there can be no "effect."   

Generally, there was never a better example of the perfect being the enemy of the good. This election just deprived us of a reliable conservative vote - for a supreme court justice, for border control, for welfare reform. It will make all the thing we CLAIM to want here that much harder to achieve.

And the window of opportunity will not stay open forever.

In the larger scope of things,  there is this concept in politics called "momentum."   Politics is cyclic after a fashion,   and this "act"  has given the Democrats a boost to help flip the normal rotation of politics to begin earlier than it otherwise might have done.   


It will likely cause the next cycle to start earlier and progress deeper than it otherwise would have done. 


Marginal potential wins in the off year elections have moved some number of points closer to Democrat wins as a result of what happened. 

[libertybele]

The election is over, so hey! Let's turn on one another! Yay.

Instead, we might consider supporting actual constitutional conservatives who will run for the US Senate in 2018. In my state,  Patrick Morrisey will face Joe Manchin, if he can win the GOP primary inMay.

   This wins the most intelligent post in this thread today!  We need to be supporting constitutional conservatives; we already know that with the likes of McConnell and Ryan leading things, they're odds of winning are drastically reduced to begin with.

[Frank Cannon]

He thinks Most of the Amendments past the 10th were garbage,   and so do I.    I have thought this since long before I ever heard of Roy Moore,    but I'm sure you won't bother to debate the actual pros and cons of the amendments after the first 10,  because it's easier to mock than it is to think,   and some people are just too lazy to do anything else.

LOL. I'm not wasting time on that stupidity. The people here who wrap themselves up in the Founders to get back to "original intent" now think the mechanism they put in place to correct problems is garbage.

[DiogenesLamp]

Hey Constitutional scholar. Where does it say anything about marriage in the Constitution? That tells me the founders didn't give a shit.

"Federalism".   Do you speak it?   

[aligncare]

Roy Moore tried to run a Rose Garden campaign. That kind of laziness doesn't work when you've got the entire Democratic Party and half the Republicans running against you.

He won the primary on reputation. The Democrats won by smearing that reputation.

Encapsulates nicely exactly what happened.

 

[libertybele]

Roy Moore tried to run a Rose Garden campaign. That kind of laziness doesn't work when you've got the entire Democratic Party and half the Republicans running against you.

He won the primary on reputation. The Democrats won by smearing that reputation.

The GOPe also helped to destroy that reputation by asking him to step down and that request was led by McConnell.  I hope the SOB is pleased with himself; he'd rather lose a seat than let a conservative into his country club!

[XenaLee]

Any (and every) time a Democrat wins....  America loses.

And anyone blaming Conservatism for this and any other thing that's wrong with politics these days is only outing themselves and their real ideology and agenda.

What this election proves is that the Democrats (and Soros) can throw money at the politics of personal destruction and slander and win .... because there are just that many (or just enough) morons out there that will fall for it every time its tried.

Sad, that.

[DiogenesLamp]

You’ve mentioned that before.  What you’ve omitted is that Strange, being the ‘establishment pick,’ would have made a cogent counter argument to the allegations, unlike Moore on Hannity.  Strange would have had a legal team that doesn’t advertise on bus benches.  He also would have a competent spokesperson, not a Jim Bakker PTL Club reject.

And your basis for claiming that Strange would have been effective at repelling the Democrat accusations of corruption is what?    What makes you think Luther Strange could have survived these accusations?    I talked to a lot of people in Alabama who were absolutely convinced that Luther Strange suspended that investigation as a quid pro quo for the Governor (the forced out Governor)   appointing him to that Senate seat.   


Does the name "Rod Blagojevich"  mean anything to you?   


Do you think these people are playing?   Do you think it is just a coincidence that Democrats have pulled this stunt so many times before in the past?   


Luther Strange would have been toast.    Billionaires and other very influential people wanted a pawn which could help them stop Trump.    They were going to hammer Strange until he lost.   


The "news"  media would have focused on "accusations of corruption"   for weeks leading up to the election.   


Brilliant "geniuses"  on this forum would even now be proclaiming "Luther Strange was a bad candidate."   

[dfwgator]

Any (and every) time a Democrat wins....  America loses.

And anyone blaming Conservatism for this and any other thing that's wrong with politics these days is only outing themselves and their real ideology and agenda.

What this election proves is that the Democrats (and Soros) can throw money at the politics of personal destruction and slander and win .... because there are just that many (or just enough) morons out there that will fall for it every time its tried.

Sad, that.

The good news? Now the precendent has been set. And it's time now to turn the tables and get the dirt on the Rats...every single one of them.  They want to play that game? Well guess, what?  We can play it, too.

[libertybele]

LOL. I'm not wasting time on that stupidity. The people here who wrap themselves up in the Founders to get back to "original intent" now think the mechanism they put in place to correct problems is garbage.

I find it very sad that there are those in here that believe that this country will continue to exist as we know if if we don't got back to the Founders intent and adhere to the Constitution; without her, we as a country are nothing!

[XenaLee]

The GOPe also helped to destroy that reputation by asking him to step down and that request was led by McConnell.  I hope the SOB is pleased with himself; he'd rather lose a seat than let a conservative into his country club!

Exactly right.  In case anyone is still wondering why nothing is getting done re: Trump's conservative promises.... look no further than Bitch McConnell.   He is the proverbial snake in the grass Judas... and nothing will change as long as he is there and in charge.

[DiogenesLamp]

@DiogenesLamp   

Fair enough. 

All of those women in Alabama who wrote in names can lecture you.

And little birds could chirp in the forest to achieve the same degree of rationality it would engender.   


The "herd"   was turned because it was spooked.   


   

[Right_in_Virginia]

The election is over, so hey! Let's turn on one another! Yay.

Instead, we might consider supporting actual constitutional conservatives who will run for the US Senate in 2018. In my state,  Patrick Morrisey will face Joe Manchin, if he can win the GOP primary inMay.

 

[DiogenesLamp]

No wonder Roy lost his ass in a solid red state. There is no plausible defense to his stupidity and zealotry.

There is no plausible defense against a closed mind.   

[DiogenesLamp]

He earned the appellation,  DL,  when he defied a court order to display a billboard to his religion,  when he proclaimed that Muslims couldn't serve in Congress unless they swore an oath on a Christian Bible, and when he complained we'd be better off without the 14th and 17th amendments.  Just to cite a few examples of his abject looniness.   

You can keep trying to sell that snake oil,   but I advise you to find a dupe who doesn't actually understand the issues involved.   


You are in way over your head in any attempted discussion on these issues with me.   I've been studying this subject for several decades.   

[edpc]

Well they did so by large margins until only a short time ago.

That is pretty much like saying, ‘Man, our team really tore it up in preseason.’

His performance only mattered in the big game.

[DiogenesLamp]

They are just facing a reality that was obvious to those of us who were on board when Goldwater ran.

Goldwater is a very good example of what happened.   


No doubt some people will just conclude he was a "bad"  candidate. 

[XenaLee]

The good news? Now the precendent has been set. And it's time now to turn the tables and get the dirt on the Rats...every single one of them.  They want to play that game? Well guess, what?  We can play it, too.

Yeah... uh... no.   You're missing the point.

Sure, the rats have more cretins in their ranks that really are guilty of said and sundry accusations.  But history proves that with the exception of the recent rash of exposures resulting in the loss of a scant few irrelevant or unimportant Democrat positions... the Dems never ever face any real consequences for their behavior, past OR present.

The point is... the rats know now that they can accuse ANYONE on the right with their "Herman Caining tactics"... and win whatever seat they need to win.  The American public should have stepped in and shut this crap down hard.  Instead, they either bought into it, gleefully joined in on the witchburning, or just didn't give a damn.  Big mistake.

[DiogenesLamp]

It is hard watching something you love eaten by termites, and trashed by fools, and finding that despite all reason you are powerless to stop people from insisting on its destruction, when there will be nothing to equal it for a long time, if ever. I can understand the sentiment of those who watched as the golden age of any civilization passed.

Your commentary has been exceptionally relevant for the last several pages.   

[Frank Cannon]

There is no plausible defense against a closed mind.

Yeah. I've pretty much closed my minds to hayseeds riding horses around and waving guns in public since McCloud went off the air.

[Free Vulcan]

Roy Moore tried to run a Rose Garden campaign. That kind of laziness doesn't work when you've got the entire Democratic Party and half the Republicans running against you.

He won the primary on reputation. The Democrats won by smearing that reputation.

Probably the only legit criticism of Moore I've heard and astute analysis. He let his opposition set the tempo, which is often fatal in politics.

[skeeter]

Any (and every) time a Democrat wins....  America loses.

And anyone blaming Conservatism for this and any other thing that's wrong with politics these days is only outing themselves and their real ideology and agenda.

What this election proves is that the Democrats (and Soros) can throw money at the politics of personal destruction and slander and win .... because there are just that many (or just enough) morons out there that will fall for it every time its tried.

Sad, that.

The quality of Moore as a candidate aside, anyone who joined the coyote chorus against him is also at knowing odds with everything that would've been possible by adding him the congress. It doesn't matter how much 'lets all us conservatives pull together' post election prattle you hear from them. Its all been heard before.

Thats just a plain fact.

[mountaineer]

What makes you think they'll be treated any differently?

Rinse, wash, repeat.

We know the Dems will slander Morrisey. They already have done so. But his opponent in the GOP primary is a fake Republican,  and Patrick is a solid conservative. Mojo Manchin is an embarrassment.  We need to support good people like Morrisey and help them fend off the dirt that will be slung at them.