Author Topic: Alabama Secretary of State: If State GOP Pulls Support for Moore and He Gets the Most Votes, Election Would Be ‘Null and Void’  (Read 13575 times)

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Offline INVAR

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It was a lawful order.

It was no more a "lawful order" than if the court declared that all caucasian male children under 2 years of age are not human beings, and must be euthanized for social justice.

It was no more a "lawful order" than when another court declared that blacks were only 3/5 a human being.

It was no more a "lawful order" than when another court declared Jews had no right to possess property or be in public spaces.


In short - since you are deliberately as dense as a ton of lead sewer pipe, your homosexual marriage ruling is bunk and of no legality.  How many military divisions does your beloved court possess in order to force that shit down our throats?  Moore upheld his oath to God, to Alabama, to the 1st Amendment of the Constitution and defied a lawless SCOTUS. Amen
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...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline edpc

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It was no more a "lawful order" than if the court declared that all caucasian male children under 2 years of age are not human beings, and must be euthanized for social justice.


The ol’ rascal probably kicks himself everyday that he wasn’t born in Herod’s time, then.

Defy the king’s order and no societal stigmas on goin’ a-courtin’ with the teens!
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Hoodat

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No, he defied the law.

Again, what law did he defy?  Please be specific.
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Offline INVAR

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The ol’ rascal probably kicks himself everyday that he wasn’t born in Herod’s time, then.

Defy the king’s order and no societal stigmas on goin’ a-courtin’ with the teens!

We gots no societal stigmas again't men a marrying' men for perverted sex right now by dem big city lickers!

So's I guess yer outrage over age is only met by his outrage over homos.

Kings and courts can go pound sand.
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...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Smokin Joe

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The man was an officer of the court.  It was a lawful order.  If you cannot follow a lawful order, you resign.   Not force your own removal by your insubordinate behavior.   I consider such open defiance of one's oath of office a disqualifier for future public service.
A Federal Court ordered him (and the other justices) to ignore and act contrary to the specific wording of the Constitution of the State of Alabama which they were sworn to uphold.
It wasn't defiance of his oath, it was in fulfillment of it.

The SCOTUS didn't sign his paycheck, the people of the State of Alabama did, and they had overwhelmingly voted to approve the Amendment in question. He was subordinate to the People and Constitution of Alabama, not five black robes.
No where in the Constitution of the United States is the Federal Government empowered to determine the nature of the Sacrament of Marriage. Where's your 'wall of separation" between Church and State when the State decides it wants to decide what constitutes marriage--or is that just a one-way wall?
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Offline INVAR

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No where in the Constitution of the United States is the Federal Government empowered to determine the nature of the Sacrament of Marriage. Where's your 'wall of separation" between Church and State when the State decides it wants to decide what constitutes marriage--or is that just a one-way wall?

He's going to chuck a play out of the Marxist handbook and tell you that 'Equal protection under the law' trumps the 1st Amendment.  Essentially his position is that the mythical 'wall of separation' only goes one way: to separate society and government FROM religion, and FORCE religion to modify it's tenets to accommodate those rights SCOTUS and society create out of thin air to create special protections for designated constituencies benefiting the Statist Oligarchy.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Smokin Joe

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He's going to chuck a play out of the Marxist handbook and tell you that 'Equal protection under the law' trumps the 1st Amendment.  Essentially his position is that the mythical 'wall of separation' only goes one way: to separate society and government FROM religion, and FORCE religion to modify it's tenets to accommodate those rights SCOTUS and society create out of thin air to create special protections for designated constituencies benefiting the Statist Oligarchy.
Just perusing the Alabama Constitution, I'd bet he'd really be frosted to find out that those convicted of homosexuality were deprived of the right to vote at one time...but that was back when it was considered a crime or a mental disorder and 'celebrated' about as much as schizophrenia or larceny.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Jazzhead

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This has nothing to do with the Tenth Amendment or states' rights.   The federal government didn't remove Moore from his position for insubordination - the State of Alabama did, twice.   

If Moore's conscience couldn't permit him to follow a lawful court order, his duty was to resign.  Not to defy the law, as an officer of the court.   Alabama removed him,  in order to uphold the rule of law.

I'll say it again -  Moore deserves no respect from conservatives.   The rule of law is the glue that keeps our Republic together,  not Moore's brand of religion-fueled nihilism.   
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Offline Smokin Joe

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This has nothing to do with the Tenth Amendment or states' rights.   The federal government didn't remove Moore from his position for insubordination - the State of Alabama did, twice.   

If Moore's conscience couldn't permit him to follow a lawful court order, his duty was to resign.  Not to defy the law, as an officer of the court.   Alabama removed him,  in order to uphold the rule of law.

I'll say it again -  Moore deserves no respect from conservatives.   The rule of law is the glue that keeps our Republic together,  not Moore's brand of religion-fueled nihilism.
Yawn. You're just pissed because you disagreed with the Alabama court ruling and Alabama Law.

Gee whiz, if the Governor had had the stones George Wallace did, there would have been Federal Troops down there making sure homosexuals could get a "marriage" license.

It would have been more honest than just throwing Moore under the bus.

The order in question:
Quote
“Effective immediately, no probate judge of the State of Alabama nor any agent or employee of any Alabama probate judge shall issue or recognize a marriage license that is inconsistent” with the Alabama Constitution or state law, the chief justice wrote in his order.
To be accurate, the ruling against Alabama law came from a District Court, not the SCOTUS. The SCOTUS didn't rule until its 5-4 decision a couple years later.

Quote
Since Judge Granade moved last month to declare Alabama’s prohibitions against same-sex marriage unconstitutional, the chief justice has insisted that the probate judges were not required to abide by her decisions. But, in an interview on Wednesday, he said he thought he could do little more than guide the probate judges on how to respond.

“I think I’ve done what I can do: advise the state court probate judges that they’re not bound by any ruling of the Federal District Court,” he said.
But by Sunday night, the chief justice, faced with the prospect of many judges allowing same-sex marriages to move forward, acted, in part, “to ensure the orderly administration of justice within the State of Alabama.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/09/us/gay-marriage-set-to-begin-in-alabama-amid-protest.html

Quote
The chief justice’s misgivings speak to widespread concerns here about federal overreach and same-sex marriage in Alabama, where about 81 percent of voters in 2006 supported a constitutional amendment banning gay nuptials. Few here doubt the force of his belief that Judge Granade’s orders hold only “persuasive authority,” and not binding power, on Alabama judges.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/09/us/gay-marriage-set-to-begin-in-alabama-amid-protest.html
One guy in a black robe vs 81% of Alabama voters and the State Constitution.

For you it appears the "Rule of Law" is not the factor, here, but which 'ruler' is making them.

So, who is that Judge who ruled against the Rule of Alabama Law?
A Former employee of Jeff Sessions. Bush Appointee.
Quote
In addition to the gay marriage ruling, Hillyer pointed to what he called Granade's "appalling" ruling last summer against the Catholic-affiliated Eternal World Television Network in its challenge to a federal law requiring it to provide employees with health insurance that included contraception.
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/02/activist_judge_careful_jurist.html

One of the justifications for striking down that law was the alleged change in public opinion about 'gay marriage'. So Federal judges are making rulings against State Constitutional Law based on allegations of public opinion, and not on the law? 

She wasn't upholding the rule of law, she was butchering it.
Anti Christian, anti traditional marriage, and one who ties in with the current AG. Those mangroves sure have tangled roots.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 01:37:47 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Jazzhead

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Yawn. You're just pissed because you disagreed with the Alabama court ruling and Alabama Law.

   It's not me who was pissed.  The State of Alabama was pissed.  Moore was removed - twice - from his post by the State of Alabama for taking the law into his own hands.   That's nihilism. 

There's a right way and a wrong way to deal with "liberal kook judges".   The wrong way is to abuse your authority as an officer of the court.   

Moore is unfit because he deliberately violated his oath of office.   This isn't a theocracy, with judges free to ignore the law as they believe "God" sees fit.   If he deemed a higher loyalty to God, then he should have resigned.   

It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline driftdiver

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   It's not me who was pissed.  The State of Alabama was pissed.  Moore was removed - twice - from his post by the State of Alabama for taking the law into his own hands.   That's nihilism. 

There's a right way and a wrong way to deal with "liberal kook judges".   The wrong way is to abuse your authority as an officer of the court.   

Moore is unfit because he deliberately violated his oath of office.   This isn't a theocracy, with judges free to ignore the law as they believe "God" sees fit.   If he deemed a higher loyalty to God, then he should have resigned.   

@Jazzhead
But you're ok with judges abusing your authority to invent a right to abortion and a right to gay marriage.

Moore had far more legal support for his decisions then either of the above.
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Again, what law did he defy?  Please be specific.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for him to answer that question if I were you!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline RetBobbyMI

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Yawn. You're just pissed because you disagreed with the Alabama court ruling and Alabama Law.

Gee whiz, if the Governor had had the stones George Wallace did, there would have been Federal Troops down there making sure homosexuals could get a "marriage" license.

It would have been more honest than just throwing Moore under the bus.

The order in question: To be accurate, the ruling against Alabama law came from a District Court, not the SCOTUS. The SCOTUS didn't rule until its 5-4 decision a couple years later.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/09/us/gay-marriage-set-to-begin-in-alabama-amid-protest.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/09/us/gay-marriage-set-to-begin-in-alabama-amid-protest.html
One guy in a black robe vs 81% of Alabama voters and the State Constitution.

For you it appears the "Rule of Law" is not the factor, here, but which 'ruler' is making them.

So, who is that Judge who ruled against the Rule of Alabama Law?
A Former employee of Jeff Sessions. Bush Appointee. http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/02/activist_judge_careful_jurist.html

One of the justifications for striking down that law was the alleged change in public opinion about 'gay marriage'. So Federal judges are making rulings against State Constitutional Law based on allegations of public opinion, and not on the law? 

She wasn't upholding the rule of law, she was butchering it.
Anti Christian, anti traditional marriage, and one who ties in with the current AG. Those mangroves sure have tangled roots.
Just to add -- Article III, Section 2 of the US Constitution states: "In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction."  So a Federal District Court had NO jurisdiction!
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Offline Hoodat

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@Jazzhead

Still waiting.  Specifically, what law did Judge Moore defy?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Offline Jazzhead

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@Jazzhead
But you're ok with judges abusing your authority to invent a right to abortion and a right to gay marriage.

Moore had far more legal support for his decisions then either of the above.

It is the job of a judge to interpret and construe the law, and apply it to the facts of the case at hand.   You may disagree with a court's decisions regarding abortion and gay marriage, but such decisions are within their authority (and are, of course, subject to review by an appellate court).  Moore, on the other hand, preached defiance of the law, in violation of his oath as the State of Alabama found on two separate occasions. 

The rule of law is simply not compatible with Moore's brand of nihilism.   As a conservative, I'd think you'd care deeply about that.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 06:23:49 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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@Jazzhead

Still waiting.  Specifically, what law did Judge Moore defy?

I'd google it if you really care to know.  Doesn't matter to me.  Whatever it was, he got kicked off the Alabama State Supreme Court for it...
plus he only gets wood for little girls.

Offline RetBobbyMI

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I'd google it if you really care to know.  Doesn't matter to me.  Whatever it was, he got kicked off the Alabama State Supreme Court for it...
plus he only gets wood for little girls.
That is just plain insitefull stupid crap!
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"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.� ? Euripides, The Bacchae
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"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.� ? Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy


Offline Cyber Liberty

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It is the job of a judge to interpret and construe the law, and apply it to the facts of the case at hand.   You may disagree with a court's decisions regarding abortion and gay marriage, but such decisions are within their authority (and are, of course, subject to review by an appellate court).  Moore, on the other hand, preached defiance of the law, in violation of his oath as the State of Alabama found on two separate occasions. 

The rule of law is simply not compatible with Moore's brand of nihilism.   As a conservative, I'd think you'd care deeply about that.

IOW, he found in a manner of which you disagreed. *****rollingeyes*****
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Offline Smokin Joe

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   It's not me who was pissed.  The State of Alabama was pissed.  Moore was removed - twice - from his post by the State of Alabama for taking the law into his own hands.   That's nihilism. 

There's a right way and a wrong way to deal with "liberal kook judges".   The wrong way is to abuse your authority as an officer of the court.   

Moore is unfit because he deliberately violated his oath of office.   This isn't a theocracy, with judges free to ignore the law as they believe "God" sees fit.   If he deemed a higher loyalty to God, then he should have resigned.   
He stood in defiance of an order contrary to the Constitution of the State of Alabama.
Eighty One Percent of Alabama voters favored the Constitutional Amendment that defined marriage as between one man and one woman.
Did anyone ask the people of the State of Alabama?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Frank Cannon

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BREAKING: Roy Moore Is Still An Azzhole.

News at 11!

Offline Smokin Joe

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I'd google it if you really care to know.  Doesn't matter to me.  Whatever it was, he got kicked off the Alabama State Supreme Court for it...
plus he only gets wood for little girls.
Talk about a bridge too far.

 **nononono*

If you want to come out of your closet and accuse the man of being a child molester, you will stand with the other liberals here who have all but done so. Maybe you can carry their rainbow flag. Maybe you have your own.

When a District Judge, a Bush appointee and former Sessions employee tried to order the Supreme Court of Alabama (and other courts in the State) to issue licenses which would have been contrary to the Constitution of the State, Moore ordered the probate judges not to issue those licenses. The Constitutional Amendment which defined marriage between one man and one woman had been approved by the electorate of the State of Alabama with 81% voting in favor of the Amendment.
Roy Moore was upholding Alabama Law, the Constitution, and the will of the people, in the face of one district judge. For this, he was removed from office, for this the SPLC considers him on their 'naughty list'.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline skeeter

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Talk about a bridge too far.

 **nononono*

If you want to come out of your closet and accuse the man of being a child molester, you will stand with the other liberals here who have all but done so. Maybe you can carry their rainbow flag. Maybe you have your own.

When a District Judge, a Bush appointee and former Sessions employee tried to order the Supreme Court of Alabama (and other courts in the State) to issue licenses which would have been contrary to the Constitution of the State, Moore ordered the probate judges not to issue those licenses. The Constitutional Amendment which defined marriage between one man and one woman had been approved by the electorate of the State of Alabama with 81% voting in favor of the Amendment.
Roy Moore was upholding Alabama Law, the Constitution, and the will of the people, in the face of one district judge. For this, he was removed from office, for this the SPLC considers him on their 'naughty list'.

These folks really are schizophrenic. Isn't lowering the age of consent a pet issue of the homosexuals?

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"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline RetBobbyMI

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Talk about a bridge too far.

 **nononono*

If you want to come out of your closet and accuse the man of being a child molester, you will stand with the other liberals here who have all but done so. Maybe you can carry their rainbow flag. Maybe you have your own.

When a District Judge, a Bush appointee and former Sessions employee tried to order the Supreme Court of Alabama (and other courts in the State) to issue licenses which would have been contrary to the Constitution of the State, Moore ordered the probate judges not to issue those licenses. The Constitutional Amendment which defined marriage between one man and one woman had been approved by the electorate of the State of Alabama with 81% voting in favor of the Amendment.
Roy Moore was upholding Alabama Law, the Constitution, and the will of the people, in the face of one district judge. For this, he was removed from office, for this the SPLC considers him on their 'naughty list'.
AND...for which the Federal District Courts had NO jurisdiction.  Since it involved the Constitution of a State, only the SCOTUS had original jurisdiction (US Constitution, Article III, Section 2)
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid."  -- John Wayne
"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.� ? Euripides, The Bacchae
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.� ? Laurence J. Peter, The Peter Principle
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.� ? Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy