Author Topic: Las Vegas Witness Who Identified Multiple Shooters, Found Dead  (Read 2497 times)

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Offline Neverdul

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Re: Las Vegas Witness Who Identified Multiple Shooters, Found Dead
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2017, 07:13:19 pm »
People often claim they saw or heard something, but it turns out to be untrue.  Some make these claims just to get their 15 minutes of fame. Others might think, for example, they heard what sounded like more than one person firing, but they instead might have heard echoes or bullets ricocheting.  I often see interviews with law enforcement where they say eyewitness testimony can be unreliable.  I think that may be true.  Under stress, our brains are likely to misinterpret things in the wrong way or we see things that aren't there.

She was one person claiming there was more than one shooter out of how many who didn't?

Read the account she supposedly posted to her FB page:

Quote
We were rounding some sort of corner maybe and I looked to the right and I saw this large cowboy sitting down with his legs spread, holding a blood-soaked woman. I thought to myself “we NEED to hide”, but as I looked quickly for somewhere to go, the gunfire once again got closer and closer. We couldn’t hide because they (and I do mean THEY) were chasing us. That exact moment is when I started to really panic. That is the exact moment in which I thought this was it, I was going to die, I was never going to see my family again. So, as we are running, we approach this fence where men are throwing women over, and we ran up to it as they had knocked It down, so we were able to get out. As we crossed the threshold of the venue, my mind went straight to other mass shootings and hearing the victim’s families in my head talk about how they never got to say goodbye. I did not want this for my husband (who was at work) & my grandma (who had my daughter, Scarlett). So, at 10:07pm I called my husband franticly leaving him a voicemail telling him that I loved him and was in the middle of a shooting & I wasn’t sure if I would make it out alive. Next, while still running, I called my grandma to tell her the exact same thing. But the gunfire wasn’t stopping this whole time. It wasn’t ceasing. It wasn’t slowing down. And It was directly behind us, following us. Bullets were coming from every direction. Behind us, in front of us, to the side of us. But I know, I just know, that there was someone chasing us. The entire time I felt this way. The farther we got from the venue, the closer the gunfire got. I kept looking back expecting to see the gunmen and I say MEN because there was more than one person. There was more than one gun firing. 100% more than one. As we were running, we kept changing direction, because it felt like no matter what direction we took, we were being followed.

I have bene watching the news non-stop since I arrived back home to my family. And it just doesn’t make sense. The story that are feeding everyone doesn’t add up to our eyewitness accounts. There is something wrong with what they are saying & the evidence seems fake if you ask me. There are multiple people stating that there was a lady towards the beginning of the evening who had made her way up to the stage warning people that we were all gunna die her and her boyfriend were escorted off the premises. Why has she not been mentioned by authorities? Every single survivor I have talked to also remembers multiple shooters, and at least one from the ground why aren’t we being taken more seriously? Tons of things don’t add up.

A couple of things I’d like to point out:

She said: “Next, while still running, I called my grandma to tell her the exact same thing. But the gunfire wasn’t stopping this whole time. It wasn’t ceasing. It wasn’t slowing down. And It was directly behind us, following us. Bullets were coming from every direction. Behind us, in front of us, to the side of us. But I know, I just know, that there was someone chasing us. The entire time I felt this way. The farther we got from the venue, the closer the gunfire got. I kept looking back expecting to see the gunmen and I say MEN because there was more than one person. There was more than one gun firing. 100% more than one. As we were running, we kept changing direction, because it felt like no matter what direction we took, we were being followed.”

Note while running for her life during all this chaos when she claimed she was being chased and that the bullets were coming from every direction, she still had the wherewithal and presence of mind to call her husband and then her grandma but not to identify any of the other shooters supposedly chasing her.  She said she kept looking back expecting to see “gunmen” but note she didn’t say she actually saw any.

Note that she “feels” that there was more than one shooter based on her perception that the bullets were coming from different directions. But that could have been bullets ricocheting and sounds echoing and her along with the crowd running in different directions because of the panic and confusion.

Note that she says she was watching the news coverage non-stop after getting home.  I understand that this is not typical for someone having survived a traumatic event. Most people under such circumstances shy away from watching or reading news coverage, at least for a while. They are just too traumatized to want to re-live it so soon.

Note that she says she’s talked to other survivors but doesn’t name any of them. How would she be able to know who the other survivors were or more importantly, how to contact them? For all we know she could have been chatting on line, via FB with people (trolls) claiming to be or impersonating fellow survivors. And no, I do not put it past some people to do that.

Note that she talks about the mysterious woman “who had made her way up to the stage warning people that we were all gunna die” but she is getting this second hand and IIRC, that was pretty much debunked.

I’m really sorry this young woman experienced and survived this mass murder but was obviously left traumatized and truly sorry she died an untimely death soon after.  But her account isn’t exactly a reliable eye witness account. It is fraught with emotion and much conjecture on her part.

So This Is How Liberty Dies, With Thunderous Applause

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Las Vegas Witness Who Identified Multiple Shooters, Found Dead
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2017, 07:21:55 pm »
If there is any conspiracy it is all around protecting the liability of the Hotel, or the police. Thats it!  No 2nd shooter, no government or secret society involvement. Just one crazy paranoid SOB.
This could well be the case. A lot of political pressure is possible, considering all the casinos will lose business over an incident like this, over what people might consider excessive surveillance in the aftermath (it might stay in Vegas but will the video go viral?).

Either there was a second shooter ---or there wasn't.

Yep, witnesses can get it wrong, and sound can do funny things around buildings. Echoes can make it sound like the noise from one place is coming from another direction entirely and moving even a few feet can change the apparent aspect angle of the source. (I have personally experienced that effect where rocks were eroded to form a natural parabolic reflector, while walking on a trail in Western Virginia. The fellow walking behind me suddenly sounded like he was in front of me, which led to the discovery of the rock formation).

There was also an account of a ground level shooter(s), by the lady who, unwounded, suddenly died,http://realfarmacy.com/las-vegas-witness-dead/   Those accounts have been scrubbed from the articles about her.

Think about that. Media articles are already being scrubbed rather than updated, and ones I have returned to have been sanitized without any notation that they were edited or updated. Statements that people heard multiple shooters have evaporated in a cloud of discarded electrons. Whatever the cause, a lady who had enough stature among her peers to be listened to suddenly died and her accounts disappeared down the memory hole. If site acoustics explain the sound of multiple shooters, then publish the explanation. Removing prior accounts only adds to the conspiracy stew.

In the meantime, there are those clamoring to rid us of yet another legal modification to their arms people may make, to send the bump stock the way of the drop-in auto sear, including, to my personal vexation, the NRA.

I understand that with an investigation, things which initially appear one way turn out to be another. That is why we have investigations-- to find out what is the truth, and expose misconceptions, explain the disparities in testimony, which should be able to be done rationally and reasonably.

Physical evidence should support the narrative, and should lead to the conclusions of the investigative report. What has been seen is insufficient to do so: broken windows indicate a couple of possible shooting positions, but stacks of magazines in a place inconvenient to someone shooting a tripod mounted weapon make no sense. (You'd want them right at hand.)  A tripod unused in front of the shooting portal would just be an impediment. Weapons scattered around the room instead of stood back somewhere to cool. Additional weapons not close to the shooting position. All belie a sloppy bit of operational planning, in the midst of an operation in which someone managed to get 27 weapons and considerable amounts of ammo into a hotel room undetected, but shot through the door at a security guard responding to a door ajar alert from another room? 
No more mention of Tannerite or Ammonium nitrate in his car, and no mention of quantity of the latter.
Photographs of the crime scene should be in existence. Evidence should have been logged by now: quantities of materials present should be known. These are aspects that, unlike the narrative of eyewitness statements, should not change unless more is discovered--which would make for upward revision.
 
The absence of large amounts of expended cartridge cases belies thousands of rounds fired from that position.

The six minutes between discovery and shooting at the crowd which keep winking on and off like a bad neon sign.

Claims that he was shooting at the fuel tanks at the airfield (large target, should have been able to get more than a couple of hits, and it sure seems the crowd was the main target) aside from the question of motive for either.

There are some things, like the shooter's motive we may never find out, but usually these can be pieced together through the accounts of those who knew them, the medications they took, autopsy, social media, writings scrawled on the walls of their bedroom, whatever.
 
And, yes, in the real world, sometimes things just don't make any sense. The person who is impeccable in their personal appearance may live in a pig sty out or Hoarders, or the apparent slob lives in a house out of Architectural Digest--the point being that appearances can be deceiving. Or not.

Certainly fear of lawsuits will be a major driving force in political pressure to absolve the resort of any liability, and that means 'inconvenient' parts of the story might be changed, either in the media, or even by other figures because of the serious pressure by people who have real power, the ones who turned a dusty desert town into Sin City.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline TomSea

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Re: Las Vegas Witness Who Identified Multiple Shooters, Found Dead
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2017, 07:31:37 pm »
Campos, allegedly, not a registered security guard in Nevada: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10/las-vegas-security-guard-shot-by-vegas-killer-is-not-registered-as-a-security-guard-in-the-state-of-nevada/

Okay, people skate on job requirements and credentials all the time.

He was shot in the leg, okay, have we ever seen an indication this was actually so? I wonder.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Las Vegas Witness Who Identified Multiple Shooters, Found Dead
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2017, 07:50:35 pm »
Oh yes.  The lawyers will be having a field day. 

I'm not sure what the festival organizers or the hotel could have done to prevent this tragedy, but you can be sure that if the plaintiff or plaintiffs win big, our lives as travelers and/or concertgoers will change for the worse.  And most likely, the preventative measures instituted as a result will be ineffective and maybe even downright silly.
All the more reason for a thorough investigation, scientifically debunking erroneous claims (and explaining the science), and laying the evidence out, clearly and rationally. However, the usual antigun factions will clamor for banning something, especially in the confusion when it is still impossible to completely discredit any claims of increased safety.
Even the NRA seems to be willing to toss a gunstock to the anti-gunners as a bone this time, even though this is the only instance of one being used in a crime (which unfortunately would establish the 'logic' that an inert device itself is 'evil', not just the criminal, in direct contravention to the entire logic against other gun control measures through the years, even though the stock by itself can't fire a single shot.)

As for patdowns and dug through luggage, no thanks. It's why I no longer fly.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline KingsX

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Re: Las Vegas Witness Who Identified Multiple Shooters, Found Dead
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2017, 07:58:09 pm »



How synchronistic... I read this interesting version of events before I saw this topic.


" Las Vegas Massacre Survivor Abruptly Dies Just Days After Posting Eyewitness Account Of Multiple Shooters And Subsequent Cover-Up "

http://usdefensewatch.com/2017/10/las-vegas-massacre-survivor-abruptly-dies-just-days-after-posting-eyewitness-account-of-multiple-shooters-and-subsequent-cover-up/






Offline TomSea

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Re: Las Vegas Witness Who Identified Multiple Shooters, Found Dead
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2017, 08:13:56 pm »


How synchronistic... I read this interesting version of events before I saw this topic.


" Las Vegas Massacre Survivor Abruptly Dies Just Days After Posting Eyewitness Account Of Multiple Shooters And Subsequent Cover-Up "

http://usdefensewatch.com/2017/10/las-vegas-massacre-survivor-abruptly-dies-just-days-after-posting-eyewitness-account-of-multiple-shooters-and-subsequent-cover-up/


Quote
Additionally, the eyewitness reported that she was running with her group alongside ‘Tropicana Avenue’  when a ‘dark-colored SUV’ slowed and a ‘smaller Hispanic woman’ emerged from the window to ‘taunt’ her group.

“[She] leans out the window, and she yells something we couldn’t understand in a clearly taunting manner. It really freaked us out, because again, we didn’t know who we could and could not trust,” the eyewitness explained.

Could this ‘smaller Hispanic woman’ have been the same ‘short Hispanic lady’ reported by another eyewitness to have threatened concertgoers 30-45 minutes before the shooting started?


http://usdefensewatch.com/2017/10/las-vegas-massacre-survivor-abruptly-dies-just-days-after-posting-eyewitness-account-of-multiple-shooters-and-subsequent-cover-up/

I had not heard this part about the taunting but everyone has heard per the one eyewitness, of a lady telling the concertgoers "your going to be killed", that part if people are up on this.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Las Vegas Witness Who Identified Multiple Shooters, Found Dead
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2017, 08:18:22 pm »
Did anyone else see the video that some woman posted early on about it "getting real" and raving about trump just at the end? She appeared to be in front of the stage, bent over, using a phone and gunfire could be heard in the background.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 08:19:13 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis