Trump supporters dig up personal information on thousands of Trump opponents

[ABX]

If we are at a point where our side believes might makes right and immorality can only be met with immorality, then we are at an impasse that I fear will never be resolved.

It seems our side has now accepted the philosophy of the left:

There are no morals in politics; there is only expedience. A scoundrel may be of use to us just because he is a scoundrel. - Vladimir Lenin

[DiogenesLamp]

So it is OK to do things that is illegal, immoral, and unethical just as long you win is OK.

It won't matter that you were legal, moral and ethical if you lose.  You will have thrown out the baby with the bathwater.   There will be no future in which matters of legality, morality or ethics will be observed.   

Sorry, I prefer that we Conservatives do things are legal, moral, and ethical. It sets apart from the left.

We are already apart from the left,  but refusing to fight means the left will triumph,  and you will get even more illegality,  immorality,  and unethical behavior.   

If we do things the same, then we are no different.  Also, if that is the future that you want the Conservative movement, I want no part of it.

I want there to be a future.   You apparently want to be fondly remembered for being kind and ethical when you had the chance to confront your enemies.   

[RAT Patrol]

I cannot believe there are people suggesting that breaking the law be met with more law breaking.  How about insisting that the law be upheld?!

I can believe there are people suggesting it.  I'm just still shocked those people are GOP.  It's why I am now unaffiliated.

[RAT Patrol]

If we are at a point where our side believes might makes right and immorality can only be met with immorality, then we are at an impasse that I fear will never be resolved.

It seems our side has now accepted the philosophy of the left:

There are no morals in politics; there is only expedience. A scoundrel may be of use to us just because he is a scoundrel. - Vladimir Lenin

Another excellent post.

[Restored]

Returning evil for evil is a common response.  It is also wrong.  Expose their evil but don't copy it.  Otherwise you are no better.  I would rather lose the political battle in the short term than lose my soul in the long term.  Ultimately we all answer to God. 

Granted but many in the Warsaw ghettos were resistant to having guns because it made them look as bad as the Nazis.
Doxxing is not illegal. Liberals do it all the time. Exposing the openly done deeds of people is not even immoral. Lying about them is immoral. But bringing the acts done in darkness into the light is almost endorsed Biblically.

[RoosGirl]

I can believe there are people suggesting it.  I'm just still shocked those people are GOP.  It's why I am now unaffiliated.

Yeah, I meant people *here*, who mostly claim to be GOP or conservative.

[txradioguy]

I cannot believe there are people suggesting that breaking the law be met with more law breaking.  How about insisting that the law be upheld?!

As someone who's been on the receiving end of doxxing three separate times...there is no justification for it at any time whatsoever.

I don't care who does it.

[ABX]

Granted but many in the Warsaw ghettos were resistant to having guns because it made them look as bad as the Nazis.
Doxxing is not illegal. Liberals do it all the time. Exposing the openly done deeds of people is not even immoral. Lying about them is immoral. But bringing the acts done in darkness into the light is almost endorsed Biblically.

Do you have a citation for the 'Warsaw ghetto' comment?  It seems history says just the opposite. Those who opposed them were the 'collaborators' who were helping the Nazis keep down rebellion (although what you said may have been an excuse the collaborators used) - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/10/the-warsaw-ghetto-uprising-armed-jews-vs-nazis/?utm_term=.7010bca9c997

Also, yes, Doxxing is very illegal. It has been added to various cyber-bullying bills across the country, both on the federal and state level. https://patch.com/massachusetts/malden/what-is-doxing-yes-it-is-illegal
and
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/11/28/the-illegal-activity-of-doxing-revealing-documents-or-personal-information-about-a-person-without-their-permission-with-the-intent-to-threaten-harass-intimidate-shame-humiliate-or-place/

[ABX]

From a 'right' source..

...“Doxing“ is a legal term that means revealing “documents” about a person. This can range from revealing the name of a person who uses an alias, but more commonly refers to revealing whatever the person doing it feels will harm, shame, humiliate, endanger, or put the person at some risk.   Doxing is a form of stalking or threatening and is illegal under many different federal and state laws, depending on the exact facts and location......

....Once you outline the address or location of a person, within which a person can be placed at risk, YOU have VIOLATED THE LAW.  PERIOD.

In all cases if you outline the physical location of any individual with the intent to harm, shame, stalk, humiliate, endanger, or otherwise compromise the safety and security of ANY individual you have placed that person in a position of risk and you are in violation of ALL State Stalking laws.....

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/11/28/the-illegal-activity-of-doxing-revealing-documents-or-personal-information-about-a-person-without-their-permission-with-the-intent-to-threaten-harass-intimidate-shame-humiliate-or-place/

[truth_seeker]

Granted but many in the Warsaw ghettos were resistant to having guns because it made them look as bad as the Nazis.
Doxxing is not illegal. Liberals do it all the time. Exposing the openly done deeds of people is not even immoral. Lying about them is immoral. But bringing the acts done in darkness into the light is almost endorsed Biblically.

Yet at war's end the Jews formed a nation, with the motto "Never Again."

The warriors must fight to defend all, even the philosophers that cower behind the lines, to pontificate and opine about morality, ethics, and so forth.

[ABX]

Yet at war's end the Jews formed a nation, with the motto "Never Again."

The warriors must fight to defend all, even the philosophers that cower behind the lines, to pontificate and opine about morality, ethics, and so forth.

And yet the Jewish people never resorted to the tactics of their enemies. They did say never again, they did and do fight with every breath they have to stand behind that, but they never once, have resorted to the tactics that forced them to create that motto.

Even today, they do not suicide bomb civilians.  They do not seek out and kill women and children in their schools and hospitals. They do not create concentration camps. They do not gas their enemies. They do not distinguish an entire race as an enemy.

They retained their morality and ethics. They never became what they opposed.

[DiogenesLamp]

Yet at war's end the Jews formed a nation, with the motto "Never Again."

The warriors must fight to defend all, even the philosophers that cower behind the lines, to pontificate and opine about morality, ethics, and so forth.

Winners can after the fact debate the morality of how they won.   Nobody will remember how ethical were the losers,  except as an object example of what not to do. 

[DiogenesLamp]

And yet the Jewish people never resorted to the tactics of their enemies. They did say never again, they did and do fight with every breath they have to stand behind that, but they never once, have resorted to the tactics that forced them to create that motto.

Even today, they do not suicide bomb civilians.  They do not seek out and kill women and children in their schools and hospitals. They do not create concentration camps. They do not gas their enemies. They do not distinguish an entire race as an enemy.

They retained their morality and ethics. They never became what they opposed.

Because identifying masked vigilantes is exactly like running concentration camps and killing women and children.   

[DCPatriot]

Returning evil for evil is a common response.  It is also wrong.  Expose their evil but don't copy it.  Otherwise you are no better.  I would rather lose the political battle in the short term than lose my soul in the long term.  Ultimately we all answer to God. 

Bullshit.

You "expose" their evil by making public, their participation in committing violence against Conservative Americans...while wearing a ###king mask!

If what they do can't stand the light of day....unmask them and let their employers know who's working for/with them.

And them "answering to God' won't help you or me one bit.  ("Where's your Moses, now?)

Investigating exactly who the criminal masked persons are is one thing.  Making lists of all your political opponents to target and torment them is another.  Can you not see that that is a recipe for escalation?  You excuse your wrong with "they did it first."  Then then repay you with more vengeance.  You them.  They you.  Pretty soon you are killing each other.

Nobody said anything about "targeting them".     Instead, let Karma work.

[ABX]

Because identifying masked vigilantes is exactly like running concentration camps and killing women and children.

Neither is identifying 'masked vigilantes' our outing the names, addresses, and occupations of those who signed petitions or interacted on political forums acting like a nation trying to protect itself either.

If you are going to create the metaphor to the extreme on one end, expect comparable response on the other.

[DiogenesLamp]

Neither is identifying 'masked vigilantes' our outing the names, addresses, and occupations of those who signed petitions or interacted on political forums acting like a nation trying to protect itself either.

Why isn't it a nation trying to protect itself?  It seems to me that is exactly what it is.   Is not the first task of an antibody to identify the pathogen in it's midst? 

If you are going to create the metaphor to the extreme on one end, expect comparable response on the other.

I will note that for an occasion in which I encounter such a comparable response. 

[catfish1957]

You do realize this isn't just Antifa, right?  They were pulling names of people who simply signed petitions and spoke out on the internet.

Do we really want this type of mob rule on either side?

What if tomorrow your beliefs are the ones targeted? What if you are doxxed as whatever the most hated group of the day is because you simply had an opinion out of the norm or belonged to the wrong forum?

You know I do find it interesting that I got tax IRS inquiries almost annually during the Obama admin, and generally once every 3-4 years before.  AND ....  I don't even itemize.   Think my political thinking had anything to do with that? 

and p.s.  in each case, the IRS was in error.

[RoosGirl]

Bullshit.

You "expose" their evil by making public, their participation in committing violence against Conservative Americans...while wearing a ###king mask!

If what they do can't stand the light of day....unmask them and let their employers know who's working for/with them.

And them "answering to God' won't help you or me one bit.  ("Where's your Moses, now?)

Nobody said anything about "targeting them".     Instead, let Karma work.

We're a society of "karma" now instead of laws.   

Wow, that sounds great until you remember that there's pretty much always someone that thinks you're an a-hole and deserve to be strung up for it.

[txradioguy]

We're a society of "karma" now instead of laws.   

Wow, that sounds great until you remember that there's pretty much always someone that thinks you're an a-hole and deserve to be strung up for it.

More like we're living in a revenge society.

[RoosGirl]

More like we're living in a revenge society.

Yeah, that's basically what he's calling karma, but it sounds so much more spiritual to say karma than revenge.

[ABX]

More like we're living in a revenge society.

This is what happens when you have destroyed your schools, abandoned churches, and left your fraternal halls. You have given up the spirit of who we are and slowly are creeping back to the animal or tribal nature.

I sometimes wonder what is left of that unique American spirit. Our schools no longer teach virtue (or anything for that matter), people no longer attend church, what few halls of Freemasonry (or similar organizations) that are left are mocked or shunned.

What values do we judge our own action by? We have lost our square to know if our actions our right. We have lost our measure to judge the consequences of what we do. What are we?

[DCPatriot]

This is what happens when you have destroyed your schools, abandoned churches, and left your fraternal halls. You have given up the spirit of who we are and slowly are creeping back to the animal or tribal nature.

I sometimes wonder what is left of that unique American spirit. Our schools no longer teach virtue (or anything for that matter), people no longer attend church, what few halls of Freemasonry (or similar organizations) that are left are mocked or shunned.

What values do we judge our own action by? We have lost our square to know if our actions our right. We have lost our measure to judge the consequences of what we do. What are we?

We're freedom-loving Conservative Americans who are totally fed up with all the crap. 

....and doing something about it.

[truth_seeker]

Neither is identifying 'masked vigilantes' our outing the names, addresses, and occupations of those who signed petitions or interacted on political forums acting like a nation trying to protect itself either.

If you are going to create the metaphor to the extreme on one end, expect comparable response on the other.

What would you call it, to intercept private emails without permission of both parties, and make slanderous false public statements and threats?

I'm curious what your feelings are regarding this specific action?

[RoosGirl]

We're freedom-loving Conservative Americans who are totally fed up with all the crap. 

....and doing something about it.

In this case I believe that's called "vigilante"

[catfish1957]

In this case I believe that's called "vigilante"

Vigilante vs. Vigilante?   Does that constitute war?

The left declared war on us long ago.  I think we are just now waking up.