Replacing the Republican Party

[Cyber Liberty]

Sorry...my standards and values aren't fluid like that.

Most of us are like you on that TRG, or we'd be at a more principle-fluid forum like TOS.

[TomSea]

Trump is Christ-centered, he had Rev. Graham on the stage with him in Arizona, I will take that over whoever is calling him names now.

Trump, law enforcement supports him, Christians like Graham and James Dobson. 

Cruz is just an unprincipled cry-baby, whose to believe anyone threatened him or his delegates.

Cruz ran the sleaziest dirtiest campaign in decades. Now, his supporters are out using profanity, a reflection on them and Cruz.

I voted for Bush 2 times for President, no matter how much I defend him, he abandoned Christians in Iraq, Trump has been thanked by Christians in the ME for what he's done, he has stood up against tyrannical North Korea who are the way they are because they see if they have nukes, they won't be taken out like Saddam was by Bush or Qaddafi by Obama.

[Jazzhead]

I think that's been @Jazzhead's premise all along:  We need to give up on what's important to us, or we won't get even what's unimportant.

What I'm saying is that Trump has no particular loyalty to conservatives.  He was willing to sign anything the Congress put on his desk, but the inability of the GOP coalition to unite on legislation will force him to triangulate.     The WSJ this morning suggested that Republicans start treating Trump as if he were a political independent.  Trump wants victories, and the time is fast approaching when he will lose patience with the GOP to provide them.   

I don't suggest for a moment that conservatives "give up on what's important", but rather to realize that politics is the art of the possible.   There is no conservative majority, there is no conservative mandate.   Center-right legislation that can be sent to the President's desk is what is needed. Incremental progress is what is possible.  That requires compromise in the service of getting what's important - and that includes creating a record of accomplishment to run on in 2018.   Like the Rolling Stones sang - you can't always get what you want, so try to get what you need.   

[TomSea]

Most of us are like you on that TRG, or we'd be at a more principle-fluid forum like TOS.

I'd not get in a pissing war with the TOS, I saw something here the other day that would get an automatic zotting over at TOS. I wouldn't be on a high horse.

[TomSea]

If Cruz had a complaint, then he could have sued, taken to court. Where are these people who threatened him? No where, he ran the dirtiest campaign in decades per his competitors like Carson and Rubio.

Conservatism is however the wind blows.

[bigheadfred]

If Cruz had a complaint, then he could have sued, taken to court. Where are these people who threatened him? No where, he ran the dirtiest campaign in decades per his competitors like Carson and Rubio.

Conservatism is however the wind blows.

No, it isn't.

Republican conservatism may be that on the national level. Per each state, your mileage may vary.

[corbe]

If Cruz had a complaint, then he could have sued, taken to court. Where are these people who threatened him? No where, he ran the dirtiest campaign in decades per his competitors like Carson and Rubio.

Conservatism is however the wind blows.

    Usually @TomSea when I'm stoned your comments make more sense, not this time.

[bigheadfred]

    Usually @TomSea when I'm stoned your comments make more sense, not this time.

I know, right?

Psst. Don't bogart that...

[txradioguy]

Trump is Christ-centered, he had Rev. Graham on the stage with him in Arizona, I will take that over whoever is calling him names now.

Trump, law enforcement supports him, Christians like Graham and James Dobson. 

Cruz is just an unprincipled cry-baby, whose to believe anyone threatened him or his delegates.

Cruz ran the sleaziest dirtiest campaign in decades. Now, his supporters are out using profanity, a reflection on them and Cruz.

I voted for Bush 2 times for President, no matter how much I defend him, he abandoned Christians in Iraq, Trump has been thanked by Christians in the ME for what he's done, he has stood up against tyrannical North Korea who are the way they are because they see if they have nukes, they won't be taken out like Saddam was by Bush or Qaddafi by Obama.

[Bigun]

    Usually @TomSea when I'm stoned your comments make more sense, not this time.

I only see his posts when someone quotes them.  I like it that way. 

ANY party unwilling to abide by it's own rules is a party I want nothing to do with!

[RoosGirl]

That's your opinion.  His supporters didn't vote for a "liar", they voted for someone who spoke to their concerns.   

If Trump at this point wants to find success, he'll do what Bill Clinton did - triangulate between liberals and conservatives.

An opinion cannot be proven true or false.  With technology these days it's pretty easy to prove that Trump lied.  It's even easy to prove that Trump lied and admitted that he lied about the thing he lied about.

[Emjay]

If Cruz had a complaint, then he could have sued, taken to court. Where are these people who threatened him? No where, he ran the dirtiest campaign in decades per his competitors like Carson and Rubio.

Conservatism is however the wind blows.

Please ... I beg you, do not start on Cruz again.  You and @Right_in_Virginia are perhaps the most destructive people to the Trump cause when you tell vicious lies about Cruz just like Trump did for months.

I'm trying to like Trump.  He certainly hasn't mentioned Cruz in a while and I think he's done some good things and tried to do more, hampered by the weeniest Senate ever.

But shut the heck up about Cruz or I'll tell you what I really think.

[INVAR]

ANY party unwilling to abide by it's own rules is a party I want nothing to do with!

We're going to continue to reach out to Conservatives who are trapped within that abusive relationship within the Republican party and get them out of a wholly corrupted party and into a healthy alternative that matches their principles and viewpoints.

Limbaugh used to say a long time ago - that "Conservatism works every single time it is tried".  To hear Republican Party elites and their hacks, Conservatism will fail every single time because it is not compassionate and not enough people support those principles.

If that be the case, then this experiment in liberty is already done and over and the Republic has already been transformed into a Socialist Democracy.  If that be the case, there is no reason to support anyone in any party or get involved in politics at all, because we have gone to Nobles and Serfs once again - which apparently this people are comfortable with.

[corbe]

   Damn, @Emjay, did they change up your Medicine, again?
   I'm almost ready to Love you even more.

[Emjay]

   Damn, @Emjay, did they change up your Medicine, again?
   I'm almost ready to Love you even more.

How could you love me more???

[corbe]

    Help Me Get @CatherineofAragon back, I'm an equal opportunity Lover and I miss her, too, when she's gone.

[Emjay]

What I'm saying is that Trump has no particular loyalty to conservatives.  He was willing to sign anything the Congress put on his desk, but the inability of the GOP coalition to unite on legislation will force him to triangulate.     The WSJ this morning suggested that Republicans start treating Trump as if he were a political independent.  Trump wants victories, and the time is fast approaching when he will lose patience with the GOP to provide them.   

I don't suggest for a moment that conservatives "give up on what's important", but rather to realize that politics is the art of the possible.   There is no conservative majority, there is no conservative mandate.   Center-right legislation that can be sent to the President's desk is what is needed. Incremental progress is what is possible.  That requires compromise in the service of getting what's important - and that includes creating a record of accomplishment to run on in 2018.   Like the Rolling Stones sang - you can't always get what you want, so try to get what you need.   

@Jazzhead   You make so much sense ... and I almost totally agree with you.

Unfortunately, few people around here want to make sense or accept reality and try to deal with it.

They either want pie in the sky perfect (but impossible) third party or they just use this forum as an outlet for voicing doom and gloom.  The family probably doesn't want to hear it anymore, so they come here and annoy us.

[Sanguine]

    Usually @TomSea when I'm stoned your comments make more sense, not this time.

Psychedelic, man....

[RoosGirl]

Unfortunately, few people around here want to make sense or accept reality and try to deal with it.

They either want pie in the sky perfect (but impossible) third party or they just use this forum as an outlet for voicing doom and gloom.  The family probably doesn't want to hear it anymore, so they come here and annoy us.

Get bent.

[Sanguine]

How could you love me more???

I love you too when you talk that way! 

[truth_seeker]

@Jazzhead   You make so much sense ... and I almost totally agree with you.

Unfortunately, few people around here want to make sense or accept reality and try to deal with it.

They either want pie in the sky perfect (but impossible) third party or they just use this forum as an outlet for voicing doom and gloom.  The family probably doesn't want to hear it anymore, so they come here and annoy us.

Or as I have stated since before last year's primaries, some "conservatives" are logic and math challenged.

--They speak as if confused between getting to heaven, and getting political power.

--They opine, after losing the popular vote, about their great idea of dividing their membership into two factions.

[INVAR]

Incremental progress is what is possible. 

In 30 years we have little to show for success with that model that the GOP has operated on.  The ONLY thing that has been incremental - has been the hard-shift of the country and the party to the Left.

That requires compromise in the service of getting what's important

Wrong.  Compromise gets you nothing but more Liberalism and Statism dumped into a Republican wrapper.

As it is the GOP has compromised itself into becoming the Democrat Party, while the Democrats have gone wholesale Soviet/Mao Marxist.

Conservatism works every time it is tried, and all we have heard out of your ilk for 3 decades is how we must compromise with the Left and scale back our expectations to minor increments of moderately liberal successes.

No. We're done with compromise.  It's fight or die time.  We either stand on foundational principles, or they no longer exist and you are just another Comrade in the Socialist system.

[Cyber Liberty]

@Jazzhead   You make so much sense ... and I almost totally agree with you.

Unfortunately, few people around here want to make sense or accept reality and try to deal with it.

They either want pie in the sky perfect (but impossible) third party or they just use this forum as an outlet for voicing doom and gloom.  The family probably doesn't want to hear it anymore, so they come here and annoy us.

The trouble starts where it usually does in discussions like this one:  "What's Important?"  There are some folks who consider abortion to be extremely important, there are other who call themselves "conservatives" who don't think it's any more important than the eventual alignment of a new freeway from Phoenix to Las Vegas.  If you think that's a really important issue (I honestly don't know where you are on this subject), ask Jazz what he thinks.  If you are a really strong advocate of the Second Amendment, ask him about that.  You'll see that it's very easy for him to sound "sensible" until you find out he's willing to throw something dear to your heart under the bus in the name of pragmatism.

The devil's in the details.

[Emjay]

The trouble starts where it usually does in discussions like this one:  "What's Important?"  There are some folks who consider abortion to be extremely important, there are other who call themselves "conservatives" who don't think it's any more important than the eventual alignment of a new freeway from Phoenix to Las Vegas.  If you think that's a really important issue (I honestly don't know where you are on this subject), ask Jazz what he thinks.  If you are a really strong advocate of the Second Amendment, ask him about that.  You'll see that it's very easy for him to sound "sensible" until you find out he's willing to throw something dear to your heart under the bus in the name of pragmatism.

/quote]

Look, I know how Jazz feels about abortion and he and I respectfully disagree, as I am as passionate about pro-life and abolishing abortion as anyone could be.  So now you know my position on that, and, I might add, it is probably the only social issue that we would agree on.

I don't know how he feels about the second amendment but I am for the second amendment.

But at least Jazzhead is willing to look at reality and what we can actually do.  How many people here can say that?

We will never totally agree on everything but Jazz has more sense than a lot of people.

[Emjay]

I love you too when you talk that way! 

I just hope you still love me after my Jazzhead discussion.  I know @corbe won't.  He is so dam fickle.