McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill

[Cyber Liberty]

We're both a democracy and a representative republic.  Our Congressional representatives are elected by direct vote of the people - that's called democracy, for you folks in Rio Linda. 

Conservatives will find out all about the consequences of democracy come 2018.

So, by Ben Franklin's definition we're already lost the Republic bequeathed to us.  The Founders didn't agree on much, other than they didn't want the Democracy you say we have.

[XenaLee]

We're both a democracy and a representative republic.  Our Congressional representatives are elected by direct vote of the people - that's called democracy, for you folks in Rio Linda. 

Conservatives will find out all about the consequences of democracy come 2018.

Wow..... that sounds like a typical leftie threat, if I've ever heard one.   Thanks for outing yourself (again, still).

And do, by all means, count those chickens early.  I can't wait to point and laugh when you fall flat on your face (like you did last November).

[Bigun]

Splitting hairs.  Having some features of a democracy does not make us a democracy as you claimed earlier.

Our founders knew all about democracies and rejected the idea for us out of hand!

[Jazzhead]

Wow..... that sounds like a typical leftie threat, if I've ever heard one.   Thanks for outing yourself (again, still).

And do, by all means, count those chickens early.  I can't wait to point and laugh when you fall flat on your face (like you did last November).

No lefty threat.  I've voted GOP for 40 years.  I voted for Reagan in 1976.  What I'm trying to do is to urge pragmatism and realism.   Don't misunderstand why Trump won.  His voters don't want their middle class entitlements taken away.   They also don't want the chaos that would ensue if ACA were repealed in toto without a replacement.   Hell, I bet they'd just as soon see the ACA "fixed" by pouring more money down the rathole.   

The Senate bill represents pragmatic, sound policy that bends the curve back in the conservative direction.   I support it - because I want the GOP to succeed and beat back the liberal tide.     

Conservatives are setting themselves up for a fall in 2018.   That's not a threat, that's just reality.  No, it's the last thing I want to see happen.  But it is the future if conservatism doesn't ditch its fools.   

[Jazzhead]

Well, once a righteous people have had enough of meddlesome tyrants - we put an abrupt and violent end to such attempts to occupy and subjugate.

To hell with you and your repulsive threats of violence.   

[txradioguy]

To hell with you and your repulsive threats of violence.

[Free Vulcan]

It is far more than cosmetic changes.   According to the CBO, it will reduce premiums by 30 percent.   That's significant.   Also,  block-granting the Medicaid expansion frees up billions for tax relief for ordinary Americans.

 I understand the conservative opposition -  it preserves community rating.  But that reflects a sea-change in attitudes -  a decade ago the issue of pre-existing conditions wasn't on the radar, but Obama's election and the ACA has changed that.   Politically,  community rating is here to stay - or, at least,  cannot be addressed at this time given the certainty of political attack ads accusing Republicans of abandoning kids in wheelchairs.

The ACA must be addressed in stages, and the Senate bill is a worthy first step.   This is no time for conservatives' "principles" to defeat an honest attempt to fix the ACA.   We need to realize that protection for pre-existing conditions is what people want - and no amount of conservative hectoring about the "unworthy" poor is going to change that.   As Kimberley Strassel wrote in this morning's WSJ:

Yes, premiums drop after a 20% rise for a couple of years because the CBO expects older and poor people will be priced out of the market. Deductibles and out-of-pocket costs will go up too. That's not an improvement.

I don't give a crap about polling attitudes about pre-existings. Insurance is a financial instrument, and for it to work for people the numbers have to add up. They do not here. Adding pre-existings to the general pool is not insurance, it wealth distribution. You have to deal with p-e's separately to make insurance work.

Why are the not setting up the structure to make insurance affordable to the masses?

[INVAR]

To hell with you and your repulsive threats of violence.

What do you intend to do about it tough guy?

FYI none of us here on this board believe a word you say.  You keep outing yourself as the Leftist we now fully recognize you to be.  We do not believe you to be Republican or Conservative in any capacity given the things you repeatedly champion and the talking points and arguments you make to support and defend the very things antithetical to liberty and Conservatism.

ObamaCare is tyranny.  There is no 'fixing' tyranny,  only tweaking it's implementation and spread of misery that you applaud. 

We will work to make sure it is fully repealed root and branch... one way or another.

[Jazzhead]

Yes, premiums drop after a 20% rise for a couple of years because the CBO expects older and poor people will be priced out of the market. Deductibles and out-of-pocket costs will go up too. That's not an improvement.

Then support the current ACA.  The 3 to 1 rule forces the young to subsidize the old.   The ACA's been a positive boon to middle-aged white guys who lost their jobs in the last recession because of that subsidy.   

Why are the not setting up the structure to make insurance affordable to the masses?

That's exactly what the GOP reform bills would do.   

[MOD3]

@Jazzhead
@INVAR

Please put each other on ignore for a few days.  I'm tired of the accusations, both ways.

Thanks.

[Free Vulcan]

Then support the current ACA.  The 3 to 1 rule forces the young to subsidize the old.   The ACA's been a positive boon to middle-aged white guys who lost their jobs in the last recession because of that subsidy.   

That's exactly what the GOP reform bills would do.

No they don't. They don't because someone can make clever arrangements of nice sounding buzzwords. The young has always subsidized the old, and they always will.

And it's contradictory to talk about we must leave pre-existings in while clapping because the unemployed are out because they are losing their subsidy. That's not going to make it long run cheaper, and the CBO scoring makes that clear.

Insurance works on 2 principles: 1) pooling, and 2) actuarial probability. Any structure that works against that is not going to mean lower rates.

[XenaLee]

What do you intend to do about it tough guy?

FYI none of us here on this board believe a word you say.  You keep outing yourself as the Leftist we now fully recognize you to be.  We do not believe you to be Republican or Conservative in any capacity given the things you repeatedly champion and the talking points and arguments you make to support and defend the very things antithetical to liberty and Conservatism.

ObamaCare is tyranny.  There is no 'fixing' tyranny,  only tweaking it's implementation and spread of misery that you applaud. 

We will work to make sure it is fully repealed root and branch... one way or another.

It's hilarious.   He's a fan of the ACA.   Do you know of ANY rightie that likes the ACA?   Seriously..... he is  waay too transparent.   

The ACA's been a positive boon to middle-aged white guys who lost their jobs in the last recession because of that subsidy.   

And typically..... he can dish it out..... but he sure as hell can't take it.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

There is quite a lot of human behavior you can manipulate and control under the guise of health care...to include the food you buy...the car you drive and the kind of House you live in.

Also, guns in the household is a health risk

[txradioguy]

Also, guns in the household is a health risk

Yup right now if the government chose to they could regulate my insurance in three different ways...1) because of the job I'm in (military)...2) because I own and drive an SUV and 3) because I own guns.

If the Government ever fully gets to control all of us like marionette dolls my premium's would go through the roof because of those three facts...and that's before they started looking in my pantry to see what food I'm eating.

[XenaLee]

Yup right now if the government chose to they could regulate my insurance in three different ways...1) because of the job I'm in (military)...2) because I own and drive an SUV and 3) because I own guns.

If the Government ever fully gets to control all of us like marionette dolls my premium's would go through the roof because of those three facts...and that's before they started looking in my pantry to see what food I'm eating.

And yet...... for those that choose to do drugs and become addicted (nobody put a gun to their heads and forced them to do enough drugs that they got hooked).... there are apparently no consequences by government of ANY kind.   They get their drug addiction treated free (taxpayer funded).  But.... let the average person be a smoker, a drinker or even an over-eater.... and they are going to be targeted for much higher premiums and costs involved in providing their health care insurance.  Amazing.

[Jazzhead]

It's hilarious.   He's a fan of the ACA.   Do you know of ANY rightie that likes the ACA?   Seriously..... he is  waay too transparent.   

I support the GOP reform bills.  You do not.  Now tell me who's a fan of the ACA?   

[bilo]

Not we.   They.  The GOPers are trying to fail after having been given all the power they supposedly needed.  If they, the GOP, screw this up, I doubt that the voters will make that mistake (ever) again.

I know I sure won't.

I would rather vote for a 3rd party that doesn't have a chance then support someone who just lies to me and treats me like a fool.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

We're both a democracy and a representative republic.  Our Congressional representatives are elected by direct vote of the people - that's called democracy, for you folks in Rio Linda. 

Conservatives will find out all about the consequences of democracy come 2018.

Flat out lie. 

We are a representative Republic.

We do not become a democracy just because some of the leadership is elected.

From your own logic, guess we did not become a democracy until the 20th century when the 17th amendment was approved.  Shows the fallacy of your argument.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I support the GOP reform bills.  You do not.  Now tell me who's a fan of the ACA?   

To 'reform' something means you support something to reform.

Your logic has you supporting the ACA and the govt control of healthcare.

[INVAR]

It's hilarious.   He's a fan of the ACA.   Do you know of ANY rightie that likes the ACA?   Seriously..... he is  waay too transparent. 

We had his number for quite some time but apparently he either believes or is paid to attempt to influence those who read the board and may be persuaded by his vain efforts to lecture us all on the benefits of Socialism, Marxism, Islam and Government-run Healthcare.  He might try to deceive with the insistence that he is against ObamaCare while touting the efforts of the Establishment GOP to sign their name onto it and takes ownership of ObamaCare as he desperately wants them to.

His 'threat' about consequences to Republicans for daring to repeal ObamaCare was revealing once again, wasn't it?

And typically..... he can dish it out..... but he sure as hell can't take it.

As with most Leftists, yes.  Telling members here to 'get their head out of their ass' while crying himself as a victim is a hallmark tactic of Leftists and Trolls.

[XenaLee]

I support the GOP reform bills.  You do not.  Now tell me who's a fan of the ACA?   

Well of course you do..... since it's not completely eliminating Obama's beloved signature legislation.... it just puts a few patches and bandaids on it with a brand new, shiny GOP label.... which will ultimately end up destroying the GOP election chances in 2018 and probably 2020 and beyond.... as the GOP will get all the blame for the failures henceforth.   

It makes perfect sense that you would support the RINOesque, lib-lite version of ObamaCare. 

[XenaLee]

We had his number for quite some time but apparently he either believes or is paid to attempt to influence those who read the board and may be persuaded by his vain efforts to lecture us all on the benefits of Socialism, Marxism, Islam and Government-run Healthcare.  He might try to deceive with the insistence that he is against ObamaCare while touting the efforts of the Establishment GOP to sign their name onto it and takes ownership of ObamaCare as he desperately wants them to.

His 'threat' about consequences to Republicans for daring to repeal ObamaCare was revealing once again, wasn't it?

As with most Leftists, yes.  Telling members here to 'get their head out of their ass' while crying himself as a victim is a hallmark tactic of Leftists and Trolls.

Yes, indeed.  Insult members here and then (probably) goes whining to the mods when the members respond back.  I've observed it on forums for going on two decades now.  Nothing new.

[Cyber Liberty]

Well of course you do..... since it's not completely eliminating Obama's beloved signature legislation.... it just puts a few patches and bandaids on it with a brand new, shiny GOP label.... which will ultimately end up destroying the GOP election chances in 2018 and probably 2020 and beyond.... as the GOP will get all the blame for the failures henceforth.   

It makes perfect sense that you would support the RINOesque, lib-lite version of ObamaCare.

@Jazzhead has clearly stated more than once he favors putting the Republican brand on Obamcare.  Why would he want that?

[XenaLee]

@Jazzhead has clearly stated more than once he favors putting the Republican brand on Obamcare.  Why would he want that?

Why do you think?  Do the logic.

[Emjay]

No lefty threat.  I've voted GOP for 40 years.  I voted for Reagan in 1976.  What I'm trying to do is to urge pragmatism and realism.   Don't misunderstand why Trump won.  His voters don't want their middle class entitlements taken away.   They also don't want the chaos that would ensue if ACA were repealed in toto without a replacement.   Hell, I bet they'd just as soon see the ACA "fixed" by pouring more money down the rathole.   

The Senate bill represents pragmatic, sound policy that bends the curve back in the conservative direction.   I support it - because I want the GOP to succeed and beat back the liberal tide.     

Conservatives are setting themselves up for a fall in 2018.   That's not a threat, that's just reality.  No, it's the last thing I want to see happen.  But it is the future if conservatism doesn't ditch its fools.

I want me some 'middle-class entitlements.'  Would you kindly explain exactly what those are?