Author Topic: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump  (Read 20456 times)

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Offline XenaLee

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #75 on: May 30, 2017, 03:56:34 pm »

And we've been losing.   In case you haven't noticed,  the nation has drifted further and further to the left with each passing decade.

Then.... how do you explain last November's election wins for Republicans... including state governor offices won?

No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #76 on: May 30, 2017, 04:00:27 pm »


Here's the money quote, IMO, from the article ..... and again, IMO, it's not absurd, but the essence of the NT resistance:

Quote

    Finally, these people are only human: After investing so much energy in opposing Trump's election, and after predicting his nomination would lead to electoral disaster, it's hard to for them to admit they were wrong.   To see him fulfill many of his conservative election promises, again in defiance of predictions, is a bitter pill.    But if they hang on to their Never-Trumpism and the president falls on his face, they can say they were right all along.


@Right_in_Virginia

We've both said this dozens of times in here going back a year. 

Damned right, it's the $$$ quote.   

Any lucid NT would have to admit it.
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Offline driftdiver

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #77 on: May 30, 2017, 04:01:25 pm »
Then.... how do you explain last November's election wins for Republicans... including state governor offices won?

Electing Trump wasn't a win for conservatives.  At best it was a making lemonade event.
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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #78 on: May 30, 2017, 04:03:42 pm »
Then.... how do you explain last November's election wins for Republicans... including state governor offices won?

I think they're going "all in" for this mid-term.

If they can get every college kid and socially ignorant person to the polls, Trump's agenda stops dead.

Don't know the answer to that.   Demographically, Trump supporters probably top out at 85 Million.

That's no going to be enough with this 24/7 drumbeat by CNN and Company.

"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #79 on: May 30, 2017, 04:04:30 pm »
Have to disagree on this point, @DiogenesLamp because Obama's "Deep State" was being put into place no matter WHO won....including, Hillary Clinton.

They would eat Ted Cruz alive, because his shtick to respond to attacks was similar to W's.



That's why I said "I think".    The Deep State and the media would have attacked Cruz mercilessly,  and we may have had the same "The Russian's stole the election"  bullshit that they are pulling on Trump.   We may have had other fabricated accusations.   There is no telling what sort of claims the Media/Deep State would have made,  but we can all be assured that they would have gone after Cruz with everything they had. 

It is really just a guess that Cruz would have done better at dealing with them,   and I have no confidence that this would in fact be the case.   He may have in fact fared worse.

 


I think we should get on bended knee and give thanks we have a 'brawler' in the White House who simply wants to right the wrongs of the past eight years.



That Trump is a brawler is one of his best assets in my opinion.   He is like a Honey Badger.   He simply shrugs off whatever they throw at them and keeps on coming.    I am now convinced only he could have won the election,   but I think Cruz would have been more guided by principle in his acts had he been elected by President. 


Of course i'll take a win for the cause even if it wasn't done for the right reasons.   What matters is results,   not intent. 




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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #80 on: May 30, 2017, 04:06:34 pm »


That's why I said "I think".    The Deep State and the media would have attacked Cruz mercilessly,  and we may have had the same "The Russian's stole the election"  bullshit that they are pulling on Trump.   We may have had other fabricated accusations.   There is no telling what sort of claims the Media/Deep State would have made,  but we can all be assured that they would have gone after Cruz with everything they had. 

It is really just a guess that Cruz would have done better at dealing with them,   and I have no confidence that this would in fact be the case.   He may have in fact fared worse.

 


That Trump is a brawler is one of his best assets in my opinion.   He is like a Honey Badger.   He simply shrugs off whatever they throw at them and keeps on coming.    I am now convinced only he could have won the election,   but I think Cruz would have been more guided by principle in his acts had he been elected by President. 


Of course i'll take a win for the cause even if it wasn't done for the right reasons.   What matters is results,   not intent.

 :beer:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #81 on: May 30, 2017, 04:07:15 pm »
@Sanguine

OK then! You shall have it.

The answer is that not much would change.

The BIG problem is not in who we elect to any office including the presidency! The BIG problem is the huge and currently un fireable  bureaucracy we have in Washington and until we somehow get a handle on that nothing much is going to change regardless of who we elect to any office.

The oft heard slogan among those folks is "I'll still be here when you're long gone buddy!"  And the sad part is that they are exactly right when they say that!



Not just the US FedGove bureaucracy,   but the entrenched New York Liberal Democrat media and Los Angeles Liberal Democrat media that controls what people in America hear.   


We have to make inroads on these other fronts if we are to ever correct the leftward drift this nation has been experiencing for the last 60 years.


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Online andy58-in-nh

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #82 on: May 30, 2017, 04:08:31 pm »

What sort of government do you think we would have had if Hitlery Rotten Clinton was commanding the FBI, the IRS,  the EPA and homeland security?   This is the woman that altered official documents to deny Richard Nixon his right to counsel.  She lied to a Federal Judge and presented these altered documents to him as if they were real.  (She was fired for this.  She should have been prosecuted.) 


This is a woman who created the "Travel-Gate" kickback scheme and was willing to put innocent people in prison to cover up her involvement in this felonious endeavor.   This is a woman who gained access to FBI files so that she could use them against her political enemies.   


This is a woman who has used every opportunity to commit illegal and unethical acts in an effort to sell influence, get rich,  or ruin her political enemies.   


This is a woman without any scruples or mercy,   so yeah,  I pretty much saw it as a binary choice.   We either get Hitlerette,   or we get a Boorish New York businessman who at least seems to love his country.

As a practical matter, the corrupt party structure of the Democrats and the rudderless incoherence of the Republicans conspired to give America a choice between two poor Presidential alternatives.

You argue that one choice was far better than the other, and with that I would agree: Hillary would have been a God-awful nightmare from which America might have never emerged. But I am not certain that Trump will let us emerge unscathed, either, not because he doesn't love America (he obviously does) but because he is undisciplined, impulsive and insecure.

America made its choice, and for the better, I think. I hope. I pray.

But along the way, we need to hold the President accountable to an honest standard, which to me means supporting him when he's right, and criticizing him when he's not. That is not an either-or proposition, nor should it ever be.
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #83 on: May 30, 2017, 04:08:35 pm »
Then.... how do you explain last November's election wins for Republicans... including state governor offices won?



They do not refute my point.   They are akin to putting ones foot on the brake,   but not yet pressing it.   The Car needs to go in reverse,  and we haven't started doing that yet. 

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #84 on: May 30, 2017, 04:09:16 pm »
Every elected official, every appointee, every lobbyist, and every government bureaucrat in the country, whether Democrat, Republican or Independent, has ZERO interest in a Trump Presidency being a "success". On the contrary, ALL of them would prefer to have it fail, because if Trump succeeds, none of them would have the job security which they currently enjoy; thanks to the entrenched nature of the "I'll scratch your back...", "quid pro quo", favoritism and political maneuvering carried on between everybody in D.C., year in and year out - especially among members of both major parties in Congress. And it would be the exact same if Ted Cruz were currently sitting in the Whitehouse!
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #85 on: May 30, 2017, 04:11:01 pm »
As a practical matter, the corrupt party structure of the Democrats and the rudderless incoherence of the Republicans conspired to give America a choice between two poor Presidential alternatives.

You argue that one choice was far better than the other, and with that I would agree: Hillary would have been a God-awful nightmare from which America might have never emerged. But I am not certain that Trump will let us emerge unscathed, either, not because he doesn't love America (he obviously does) but because he is undisciplined, impulsive and insecure.

America made its choice, and for the better, I think. I hope. I pray.

But along the way, we need to hold the President accountable to an honest standard, which to me means supporting him when he's right, and criticizing him when he's not. That is not an either-or proposition, nor should it ever be.


I agree.   Well said. 

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #86 on: May 30, 2017, 04:13:41 pm »
*Yawn*.

So sick of this crap. You people demonstrate you are no different than Antifa in terms of throwing a freaking hissy fit upon those you demand must capitulate to supporting YOUR savior and YOUR cause as silly as you insist it is.

But fine - according to you, we Oppose Trump, his Nationalist and his so-called 'America-first agenda' because we want nothing to do with the GOP Oligarchy and our principles come first.

Now then, what do you intend to do about it besides continue to berate, insult, threaten and stomp your feet because we will not genuflect your leader or his party?
Now, here is where the snake eats its tail. The GOP branch of the uniparty is the part that isn't sending stuff to Trump, so is that out of opposition? If the GOP is part of the uniparty, the globalists, and they support Trump, then Trump must be doing the things they want, which would make him uniparty, too, and if they don't do the things he wants, that means they are Democrats and haters and support slaughtering babies?

Dammit all, it's so confusing. I'm not even sure at this point who it is I'm supposed to hate.
 oh wait. I see: @jpsb said
Quote
Just as the election was in fact a binary choice between Hillary and Trump the war is a binary battle between globalists and nationalists and right now the globalists are winning big time.

Not only is there a false dichotomy to rassle with, the dichotomy is inherently false, too. The 'Nationalist" is a billionaire class donor, who we have been assured are globalists. But when all else fails it is traditional to shoot the messenger.

I think I'll just stick to principles and let the Devil take the hindmost.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline XenaLee

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #87 on: May 30, 2017, 04:14:18 pm »



They do not refute my point.   They are akin to putting ones foot on the brake,   but not yet pressing it.   The Car needs to go in reverse,  and we haven't started doing that yet.

I disagree.  Putting "other than Democrats" into control of all three branches of government, including a non-leftist replacement for Scalia on the USSC equates, in my view, to exactly that... pressing the brakes.  Now, and only now, can reverse be attempted... and hopefully achieved.

Further.... if putting on the brakes results in an improved economy (and now, the GOP has NO excuse whatsoever for not implementing policies which will improve the economy... given some time)....

then even the morons that usually vote Democrat may see the light and stop voting for their own demise.  Hope springs.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 04:14:58 pm by XenaLee »
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Offline XenaLee

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #88 on: May 30, 2017, 04:17:04 pm »
As a practical matter, the corrupt party structure of the Democrats and the rudderless incoherence of the Republicans conspired to give America a choice between two poor Presidential alternatives.

You argue that one choice was far better than the other, and with that I would agree: Hillary would have been a God-awful nightmare from which America might have never emerged. But I am not certain that Trump will let us emerge unscathed, either, not because he doesn't love America (he obviously does) but because he is undisciplined, impulsive and insecure.

America made its choice, and for the better, I think. I hope. I pray.

But along the way, we need to hold the President accountable to an honest standard, which to me means supporting him when he's right, and criticizing him when he's not. That is not an either-or proposition, nor should it ever be.

Certainly can't argue with that.   :beer:
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #89 on: May 30, 2017, 04:23:20 pm »
IMHO you can take that out of the theory class and move it right up to the FACT class!  :beer:
@DiogenesLamp Actually, they existed prior to the war, they were part of the political influences that led to the war, and they just used it like a rented mule to grow in power.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 04:23:49 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #90 on: May 30, 2017, 04:26:57 pm »
@Sanguine

OK then! You shall have it.

The answer is that not much would change.

The BIG problem is not in who we elect to any office including the presidency! The BIG problem is the huge and currently un fireable  bureaucracy we have in Washington and until we somehow get a handle on that nothing much is going to change regardless of who we elect to any office.

The oft heard slogan among those folks is "I'll still be here when you're long gone buddy!"  And the sad part is that they are exactly right when they say that!

I agree with that except that we would have had a constitutionalist at the helm, and, to further the metaphor, who would have at the very least known which direction to turn the tiller.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #91 on: May 30, 2017, 04:28:04 pm »

Crony Capitalist with New York City and New York State,   but I'm not aware of any evidence that he had much influence with the US Government.   


I was sort of viewing him as another Teddy Roosevelt insofar as he comes from the same class and background as did Teddy,  and yet he seems to be siding with his class's political enemies against the class from which he emerged.   (as did Teddy.)   
 


He's siding with "those people"  against the upper crust Billionaires that have been running rampant in the eras of Clinton and Obama and to some degree during both Bush terms. 

At least that is what it appears he is doing to me.   I suppose we shall just have to keep a close watch on him to see if he does some things that benefit the Globalist billionaire donor class.
What turned Teddy around was his time in North Dakota, ranching. He got toughened up and learned a lot about life. He took that experience back with him. Not too many other politicians have had callouses on their hands.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline INVAR

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #92 on: May 30, 2017, 04:30:31 pm »
I keep coming back to Liberal control of all means of broadcasting to the American people.   These "sheeple"  were manufactured by the Liberal Broadcasting system.

A 'liberal broadcasting system' would have null effect on a people who were not ignorant of their cultural heritage and biblical morality.  You cannot blame the prince and power of the airwaves for a people who willingly chose to become ignorant of the very things necessary to keep them a free people.

They were created because they were programed with crap fed to them by the only system really capable of reaching these sorts of numbers.   

A moral and religious people who were self-governed would have been immune to being programmed by ideas antithetical and hostile to their very liberties.

The people are stupid because the media keeps knowledge from them that they need to  know to make sensible decisions. 

I go further back than the media.  They are just an outgrowth.  They became stupid because they traded liberty for licentiousness and ceded responsibility for government and societal provision.

It is a stop gap measure until we can get access to the information broadcasting systems,  or until alternative systems can come into their own sufficient to destroy the effectiveness of the broadcasting systems currently under liberal control. 

Not gonna happen to a corrupted and debased people.  More than half the population WANTS what will ensure the very things Hildabeast champions.

I keep saying this.   Till we get some means of getting information to the American people that can help them make better decisions,  we are going to keep losing ground.   

It's already available to them, but this people are not interested.  The shrinking church and the growing State are corollaries to one another.  As one shrinks the other grows to replace it.

Again,  Trump is a stop gap measure.  The real war needs to be fought over who controls the airwaves.

You are talking Satan himself there.  The media is just one of his tools.  An willfully ignorant people grown indifferent or hostile to the very foundations of where liberty is can exist are not a people capable of maintaining liberty.  I keep going back further than you to blame the root cause of where we find ourselves rather than the symptoms.
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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #93 on: May 30, 2017, 04:52:14 pm »
I agree with that except that we would have had a constitutionalist at the helm, and, to further the metaphor, who would have at the very least known which direction to turn the tiller.

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #94 on: May 30, 2017, 04:57:46 pm »
Here's the money quote, IMO, from the article ..... and again, IMO, it's not absurd, but the essence of the NT resistance:

"Finally, these people are only human: After investing so much energy in opposing Trump's election, and after predicting his nomination would lead to electoral disaster, it's hard to for them to admit they were wrong. To see him fulfill many of his conservative election promises, again in defiance of predictions, is a bitter pill. But if they hang on to their Never-Trumpism and the president falls on his face, they can say they were right all along. "


@Right_in_Virginia

I addressed that part.  Trump supporters are coming at that from the wrong perspective.  For many, it's about Trump the person, the personality.  For the above to be true, the same would have to be true of those who aren't his fans.  It's always been about the good of the country for us instead of a single man. 

For it to be true, you wouldn't have seen a single one of us acknowledge that Gorsuch was a good pick and will (hopefully, probably) be an asset to the Supreme Court.  But many of us did just that.

Of course it would be good if Trump would pull off his campaign promises.  But I've seen a lot of equivocating and backtracking and putting things off. 

Prager and many other Trump people refuse to accept it when we say, no, it isn't about our egos or a desire to be right.  I guess it gives them satisfaction to think otherwise. So...go to it, I suppose.





Offline Emjay

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #95 on: May 30, 2017, 05:00:19 pm »
Oh, baloney. Conservatives have been fighting this fight my whole life, and haven't stopped yet.

Maybe, but not on this scale.

Conservatives lost the fight when Obama was elected and lost it again when he was re-elected.  We can try to figure that out.  We could say we had horrible candidates against him and it's true ... we could have selected better.

But this time ... just as the ominous picture of Hillary taking over from Obama and plunging us deeper in socialism, big government, corruption, tolerance of illegal immigrants and much more horror .... this time.  This time we selected the worst possible candidate in the eyes of many conservatives, one who didn't stand a snowball's chance in the hot place.

But he won.  And the people who hated him during the primaries... the people who could tell you every despicable thing he'd ever said or done ... the people who fed on that hatred,

Well, some of those people couldn't give that hatred up.  I'm not saying those people should have granted him sainthood just because he became President.  I'm not even saying they should have given up fact checking his statements and actions.

I am saying that the Left is down but not out.  They are fighting for their lives and they fight dirty.

There are too many conservatives who are on their side in this fight.

I'm not one of them.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #96 on: May 30, 2017, 05:04:59 pm »


We barely survived Obama.   Hillary would have regarded her "inevitability"  as an affirmation of Obama's evil behavior and as a mandate for her to go farther.    Hillary is a true believer socialist,  while Obama was a socialist leaning lazy fool with gutter fighting instincts and Chicago influence. 

 Hillary came out of Illinois, too, before she went to Arkansas.

Quote
I keep coming back to Liberal control of all means of broadcasting to the American people.   These "sheeple"  were manufactured by the Liberal Broadcasting system.   They were created because they were programed with crap fed to them by the only system really capable of reaching these sorts of numbers.   

The people are stupid because the media keeps knowledge from them that they need to  know to make sensible decisions. 

The people could have been educated by more conservative media, to be sure, but the real foe is in the education system, now from K-PhD. Credentialed folks don't learn anything about HOW to think, they are only force fed WHAT to think, and expected to parrot that back. Failure to do so results in poor grades. Success is achieved by spewing back the liberal line, chapter and worse, and independent thought will not make it past oral defense or the review board for a higher level degree. The result is that many of the 'experts' media call upon to bolster the Liberal Lie are now products of prestigious institutions and spew the same stuff they lapped up back when, ensuring the propagation of a tsunami of stupid.

An educated public, aware of how to think, would reject most of the nonsense on television and in print out of hand, given some background material at most.


Quote
It is a stop gap measure until we can get access to the information broadcasting systems,  or until alternative systems can come into their own sufficient to destroy the effectiveness of the broadcasting systems currently under liberal control. 


I keep saying this.   Till we get some means of getting information to the American people that can help them make better decisions,   we are going to keep losing ground.   


Again,  Trump is a stop gap measure.  The real war needs to be fought over who controls the airwaves.
The real war is an intellectual insurgency. Stopgaps are like bandages, they might staunch the flow of blood, but they do not suture the wound. Keep in mind that those who have wrought this mess in America have ever had and declared from the farthest reaches of their party ideology their ultimate goals.
They have ever fought to bring things closer to that global socialist ideal, where it would work better than anything else if it was just the only thing out there. It is what they have in common with  the whole concept of dar al Islam where there is peace because there is no one left to fight with, and perhaps why they get along, each using the other to move closer to their goals.

In resisting that, we need to keep in mind our goals, too, not in the short term, not as a stopgap, but in terms of the complete recovery to an originalist Constitutional Republic. That is the full measure of success, and without that, fractional achievements seem less like stopgap compromises or mere steps in the right direction, but become a goal in themselves, and a point of satisfaction and complacency.  No, it is just a step along a long path back.

Those who decry those who stick to principle and advocate that as everything from extremists to baby killers are misdirecting their efforts which should be aimed at the ideological enemy and attacking those who are setting the bar for an eventual goal.
I guess when one's philosophies lie in the middle, the feeling of being surrounded is inevitable, but the IFF needs some work. So, the report card shows an improvement of a letter grade. Nice that the 'F' is gone, and that's progress, but we aren't going to settle for a 'D' or even a 'C', we want to see 'A's.
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Offline the_doc

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #97 on: May 30, 2017, 05:06:44 pm »
Maybe some NeverTrumpers fit Prager's model, but he has completely misunderstood NeverTrumpers like me.  And Prager's snarky appeal "Report for duty" doesn't fit me.  I am as supportive of our POTUS as I could possibly be under the circumstances of what I know about Trump and about our Constitutional Republic.  I still say that a profoundly dishonorable fellow like Trump never should have been nominated in the first place.  His nomination is the worst-ever black mark against the Republican Party, and by extension, against our Republic. I will never change that opinion.

In short, although Dennis Prager professes to be trying to understand NeverTrumpers, I don't believe him.  Heck, Prager doesn't even understand himself.

Prager's theory that NeverTrumpers don't understand that we are in a civil war is asinine by way of oversimplification.  Virtually all of the Republicans I personally know believe that we are embroiled in a civil war that could descend into widespread massive violence.  It would be even worse with HRC in the White House, but this does not mean that Trump is the savior of the Republic.  We are in terrible trouble as a nation, and federal policy changes will not correct that.  The problem is that our nation as a whole is weirdly rotten.       

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #98 on: May 30, 2017, 05:14:43 pm »
Hillary came out of Illinois, too, before she went to Arkansas.

Yep!

Quote
The people could have been educated by more conservative media, to be sure, but the real foe is in the education system, now from K-PhD. Credentialed folks don't learn anything about HOW to think, they are only force fed WHAT to think, and expected to parrot that back. Failure to do so results in poor grades. Success is achieved by spewing back the liberal line, chapter and worse, and independent thought will not make it past oral defense or the review board for a higher level degree. The result is that many of the 'experts' media call upon to bolster the Liberal Lie are now products of prestigious institutions and spew the same stuff they lapped up back when, ensuring the propagation of a tsunami of stupid.

And the sad part is that this has been going on for so long now most of those doing it have no idea that they themselves have been victims!

Quote
An educated public, aware of how to think, would reject most of the nonsense on television and in print out of hand, given some background material at most.

Most assuredly!

Quote
The real war is an intellectual insurgency. Stopgaps are like bandages, they might staunch the flow of blood, but they do not suture the wound. Keep in mind that those who have wrought this mess in America have ever had and declared from the farthest reaches of their party ideology their ultimate goals.
They have ever fought to bring things closer to that global socialist ideal, where it would work better than anything else if it was just the only thing out there. It is what they have in common with  the whole concept of dar al Islam where there is peace because there is no one left to fight with, and perhaps why they get along, each using the other to move closer to their goals.

In resisting that, we need to keep in mind our goals, too, not in the short term, not as a stopgap, but in terms of the complete recovery to an originalist Constitutional Republic. That is the full measure of success, and without that, fractional achievements seem less like stopgap compromises or mere steps in the right direction, but become a goal in themselves, and a point of satisfaction and complacency.  No, it is just a step along a long path back.

Those who decry those who stick to principle and advocate that as everything from extremists to baby killers are misdirecting their efforts which should be aimed at the ideological enemy and attacking those who are setting the bar for an eventual goal.
I guess when one's philosophies lie in the middle, the feeling of being surrounded is inevitable, but the IFF needs some work. So, the report card shows an improvement of a letter grade. Nice that the 'F' is gone, and that's progress, but we aren't going to settle for a 'D' or even a 'C', we want to see 'A's.

No argument there!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #99 on: May 30, 2017, 05:18:44 pm »
Then.... how do you explain last November's election wins for Republicans... including state governor offices won?
Much of that, especially Congressional and state house wins, comes from gerrymandering that stemmed from the initial 2010 backlash to Obama, the stimulus and ACA. We probably won't be quite so lucky in 2020.

We are having some incremental success at the state level in governorships. Scott Walker, Paul LePage and Rick Snyder have done yeoman's work in restoring some fiscal sanity to the northeast and midwest, and they've managed to get re-elected.

Culturally, we're getting our collective backside kicked. The only cultural difference between left and right now is that the right's quieter about their support for the agenda that dare not speak its name.
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