Author Topic: Removing Trump Won’t Solve America’s Crisis - A long read, but interesting  (Read 3018 times)

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Offline Farish

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« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 05:13:27 pm by Mod2 »
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Online corbe

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Re: A long read, but interesting
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2017, 04:49:30 pm »
   Welcome to TBR @Farish
   It is a Long Read AND Interesting as you state, Some hyperbole, much Trump hate but to answer your question. there is no evidence, at this moment, to support removing OUR duly elected President and as I see it even the majority of the 'so-called' Trump haters will not allow the MSM/DEMS to railroad him, in spite of our dislike for the Man.

   Just a friendly suggestion: It's better for all if you use the original title in the Heading.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline EC

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Re: A long read, but interesting
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2017, 04:50:16 pm »
Nothing that hasn't been said a thousand times here already - you'll not find a whole lot of disgreement that the "elites" (as the article calls them - you can sub in entrenched bureaucracy, the civil service, deep state - whatever term you are most comfortable with) are a big part of the problems. How big a problem is one of the hot debate points, of course - different folks, different priorities.
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Offline Mod2

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Title edited to include the original title.

We insist on that here, please. It is both out of respect to the copyright holder and to reduce duplicate postings of the same article.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Quote
When a man as uncouth and reckless as Trump becomes president by running against the nation’s elites, it’s a strong signal that the elites are the problem. We’re talking here about the elites of both parties. Think of those who gave the country Hillary Clinton as the Democratic presidential nominee—a woman who sought to avoid accountability as secretary of state by employing a private email server, contrary to propriety and good sense; who attached herself to a vast nonprofit “good works” institution that actually was a corrupt political machine designed to get the Clintons back into the White House while making them rich; who ran for president, and almost won, without addressing the fundamental problems of the nation and while denigrating large numbers of frustrated and beleaguered Americans as “deplorables.” The unseemliness in all this was out in plain sight for everyone to see, and yet Democratic elites blithely went about the task of awarding her the nomination, even to the point of employing underhanded techniques to thwart an upstart challenger who was connecting more effectively with Democratic voters.

This is the seminal issue. Neither Party is responding to the people. Both Parties control who gets power to the microphone, who gets nominated, who gets fiscal support, and to a great degree by virtue of that, who gets elected to any position in partisan politics, from local government to the White House. Aside from tenuously preserving an illusion of representative government by providing 'choices', the Country Club mentality is present on both sides of the aisle, and daily growing richer while the nation languishes.

One good thing which may come out of this is the exposure of that mentality, especially as the GOP and minions are actively thwarting the intent, if not the agenda of the Trump White House. Recent interdiction by Tillerson signing what amounts to approval of the Paris Environmental accords negates placing an EPA chief who decried the entire 'Climate Change' agenda. Building pipelines is moot if drilling is halted, and the Congress allowing the Methane Rule stuffed through by the last administration will stymie attempts to produce resources on Federal Land--over half of the land west of the Mississippi.

The infighting will continue, until the midterms, when hopefully primary challengers can unseat McCain, Graham, and Collins, and still keep those seats on the Right side of the aisle, but I'm not holding my breath. Both parties need a trip to the woodshed.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Farish

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Re: A long read, but interesting
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2017, 06:00:40 pm »
   Welcome to TBR @Farish
   

   Just a friendly suggestion: It's better for all if you use the original title in the Heading.

Thanks for the welcome and the tip!
Some of it's magic
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Offline Farish

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Title edited to include the original title.

We insist on that here, please. It is both out of respect to the copyright holder and to reduce duplicate postings of the same article.

Mea culpa. Will remember in future!
Some of it's magic
And some of it's tragic
But I've had a good life
All the way--Buffett

Offline Farish

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This is the seminal issue. Neither Party is responding to the people. Both Parties control who gets power to the microphone, who gets nominated, who gets fiscal support, and to a great degree by virtue of that, who gets elected to any position in partisan politics, from local government to the White House. Aside from tenuously preserving an illusion of representative government by providing 'choices', the Country Club mentality is present on both sides of the aisle, and daily growing richer while the nation languishes.

Thank you for putting this so well.
Some of it's magic
And some of it's tragic
But I've had a good life
All the way--Buffett

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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The infighting will continue, until the midterms, when hopefully primary challengers can unseat McCain, Graham, and Collins, and still keep those seats on the Right side of the aisle, but I'm not holding my breath. Both parties need a trip to the woodshed.
Senator John McCain won re-election last Nov.  He beat his primary challenger by 20 points.  Senator Lindsey Graham won re-election in 2014.  He whipped his GOP primary opponent 56% to 15%.  Senator Susan Collins won re-election in 2014...she had no primary challenger.  None are up for re-election in 2018 and if I had to put money on it, I'd bet that none will ever be defeated by their own party.

I didn't read the article because I'm told it is long.  If you want me to read a long article you need to insert "Once-Ler" in the text every couple sentences to keep me interested.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 06:22:22 pm by Once-Ler »

Offline Smokin Joe

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Senator John McCain won re-election last Nov.  He beat his primary challenger by 20 points.  Senator Lindsey Graham won re-election in 2014.  He whipped his GOP primary opponent 56% to 15%.  Senator Susan Collins won re-election in 2014...she had no primary challenger.  None are up for re-election in 2018 and if I had to put money on it, I'd bet that none will ever be defeated by their own party.

I didn't read the article because I'm told it is long.  If you want me to read a long article you need to insert "Once-Ler" in the text every couple sentences to keep me interested.
Actually, it isn't a bad article. It says much of what we have been saying about the GOPe, but then it goes on to say that the Democrat Party suffers from similar ills.
It's light reading, nothing we haven't touched on, but adds some to those concepts most touched on here. I read fast and would say it is middlin' in length, as articles go.

I know McCain, Graham, and Collins are on rails, I just wish someone would throw the switch and put them out to pasture.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 06:45:48 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Sanguine

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Senator John McCain won re-election last Nov.  He beat his primary challenger by 20 points.  Senator Lindsey Graham won re-election in 2014.  He whipped his GOP primary opponent 56% to 15%.  Senator Susan Collins won re-election in 2014...she had no primary challenger.  None are up for re-election in 2018 and if I had to put money on it, I'd bet that none will ever be defeated by their own party.

I didn't read the article because I'm told it is long.  If you want me to read a long article you need to insert "Once-Ler" in the text every couple sentences to keep me interested.

 :silly:

Offline Emjay

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Senator John McCain won re-election last Nov.  He beat his primary challenger by 20 points.  Senator Lindsey Graham won re-election in 2014.  He whipped his GOP primary opponent 56% to 15%.  Senator Susan Collins won re-election in 2014...she had no primary challenger.  None are up for re-election in 2018 and if I had to put money on it, I'd bet that none will ever be defeated by their own party.

I didn't read the article because I'm told it is long.  If you want me to read a long article you need to insert "Once-Ler" in the text every couple sentences to keep me interested.

Now you have me deeply depressed.  I cannot understand who the people are who are voting for McCain, Lindsey and Susan.  I can only guess that their democratic opponents were worse but why do they continue to get nominated?

I'm not going to read a long article that just reiterates stuff I read here every day, perhaps not as well put but same old everything is the fault of Trump and the horse he rode in on.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Online corbe

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Now you have me deeply depressed. I cannot understand who the people are who are voting for McCain, Lindsey and Susan.   I can only guess that their democratic opponents were worse but why do they continue to get nominated?

I'm not going to read a long article that just reiterates stuff I read here every day, perhaps not as well put but same old everything is the fault of Trump and the horse he rode in on.

                          They stole the idea from a master-LBJ/Box13

No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

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removing him wouldn't hurt though, either

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Actually, it isn't a bad article. It says much of what we have been saying about the GOPe, but then it goes on to say that the Democrat Party suffers from similar ills.
It's light reading, nothing we haven't touched on, but adds some to those concepts most touched on here. I read fast and would say it is middlin' in length, as articles go.
Thanx for the re-cap.  The rats ARE suffering worse than the GOP...in fact the GOP is untouched by the media vomit against President Trump.

Democratic Party Image Dips, GOP Ratings Stable
http://www.gallup.com/poll/210725/democratic-party-image-dips-gop-ratings-stable.aspx?version=print


We saw this same resiliency of the GOP when Dubya was bombarded by the drive-byes with hit job after hit job and his ratings didn't start hurting until the 6 year mark.

The Republican's have a natural tendency to discount what the MSM feeds them.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 07:53:54 pm by Once-Ler »

Offline Smokin Joe

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Now you have me deeply depressed.  I cannot understand who the people are who are voting for McCain, Lindsey and Susan.  I can only guess that their democratic opponents were worse but why do they continue to get nominated?

I'm not going to read a long article that just reiterates stuff I read here every day, perhaps not as well put but same old everything is the fault of Trump and the horse he rode in on.
Well, hon, if you don't read it you won't know, will you?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline INVAR

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Now you have me deeply depressed.  I cannot understand who the people are who are voting for McCain, Lindsey and Susan.  I can only guess that their democratic opponents were worse but why do they continue to get nominated?

Because that is what their constituents want.  That is what the Crony Machine politicians and Lobbyists want.   And that is what the political oligarchy wants.

It's what the people want.

Which is why expecting politics to fix the moral and ethical morass that makes up the people, is an exercise in futility.

Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline libertybele

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removing him wouldn't hurt though, either

I completely disagree.  Trump was elected our president.  Just because the opposite party didn't win and are throwing a hissy fit and those that counted on Clinton winning didn't get there way are exactly the reasons why he shouldn't be removed.  Besides, what grounds are we removing him on?  We live in a Republic; not a banana republic and it's time to put the pitchforks and burning spears away.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Emjay

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Well, hon, if you don't read it you won't know, will you?

I already know from the other comments that it is just a replay of things that are said here every day and I have no interest in reading that.

If there was something new and meaningful, it would have been posted.
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Offline Emjay

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I completely disagree.  Trump was elected our president.  Just because the opposite party didn't win and are throwing a hissy fit and those that counted on Clinton winning didn't get there way are exactly the reasons why he shouldn't be removed.  Besides, what grounds are we removing him on?  We live in a Republic; not a banana republic and it's time to put the pitchforks and burning spears away.

We are not a banana republic ... at least not yet.

Trump was elected duly and legally.  I didn't vote for him but not because I preferred Hillary.  My excuse is that I live in Hawaii and not registered to vote yet and I knew Hawaii would go for Hillary.

I don't think Trump has done a bad job.  One would think he'd done a horrible job by reading some posts here but he has not.

He's made excellent appointments ... I can't think of one I don't like.

A good Supreme Court justice is a major victory.

It wasn't as easy to do the things he promised as he thought ... if he actually thought it and I believe he did.  No Republican could have done much better in the current climate.

Nobody knows what will happen but if the liberals and the press and a few haters get their way and get rid of Trump, it will not be a victory for the country.  Just the opposite and will set the stage for similar actions by the enemy in the future.
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Offline libertybele

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We are not a banana republic ... at least not yet.

Trump was elected duly and legally.  I didn't vote for him but not because I preferred Hillary.  My excuse is that I live in Hawaii and not registered to vote yet and I knew Hawaii would go for Hillary.

I don't think Trump has done a bad job.  One would think he'd done a horrible job by reading some posts here but he has not.

He's made excellent appointments ... I can't think of one I don't like.

A good Supreme Court justice is a major victory.

It wasn't as easy to do the things he promised as he thought ... if he actually thought it and I believe he did.  No Republican could have done much better in the current climate.

Nobody knows what will happen but if the liberals and the press and a few haters get their way and get rid of Trump, it will not be a victory for the country.  Just the opposite and will set the stage for similar actions by the enemy in the future.

I think we all need to remember that Trump has only been president for 4 months; it's very early in the game.  Unfortunately he has been met with disdain and obstructionism since day one.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Smokin Joe

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I completely disagree.  Trump was elected our president.  Just because the opposite party didn't win and are throwing a hissy fit and those that counted on Clinton winning didn't get there way are exactly the reasons why he shouldn't be removed.  Besides, what grounds are we removing him on?  We live in a Republic; not a banana republic and it's time to put the pitchforks and burning spears away.
Unless there is a reason which justifies, actually mandates his removal from office, he is the duly elected President of the United States. Without cause, that removal cannot Constitutionally be done.

I voted for Castle, would not have voted for Trump if this State had had a primary, but he is it.

The Democrats would, again, try to use the Constitution without basis. What they advocate is thwarting the Constitutional Republic and imposing their will on the People, and I cannot support, much less advocate that. It is an attack on the very fabric of the Republic.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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I think we all need to remember that Trump has only been president for 4 months; it's very early in the game.  Unfortunately he has been met with disdain and obstructionism since day one.
True, but he needs to quit with the Twitter and fill some positions. There are a small army of people yet to be appointed. I'd really like for him to get Tillerson with the program, too, so the EPA isn't bound by some UN climate crap to do what the director would not do otherwise. Negating the good with later bad action is not progress, unless you're a progressive.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline INVAR

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Unless there is a reason which justifies, actually mandates his removal from office, he is the duly elected President of the United States. Without cause, that removal cannot Constitutionally be done.

I voted for Castle, would not have voted for Trump if this State had had a primary, but he is it.

The Democrats would, again, try to use the Constitution without basis. What they advocate is thwarting the Constitutional Republic and imposing their will on the People, and I cannot support, much less advocate that. It is an attack on the very fabric of the Republic.

Well said.

The GOP with McConnell's assistance got rid of the primary out here in KY and opted for a Caucus instead so Rand Paul could circumvent the KY Constitution to run for both president and his seat in the Senate at the same time.

That was the absolute last straw for me in terms of being involved in the local GOP/TEA Party deal. 
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Smokin Joe

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Well said.

The GOP with McConnell's assistance got rid of the primary out here in KY and opted for a Caucus instead so Rand Paul could circumvent the KY Constitution to run for both president and his seat in the Senate at the same time.

That was the absolute last straw for me in terms of being involved in the local GOP/TEA Party deal.
Here (ND), we didn't even have the Caucus. Nothing in time to get a vote in for the POTUS candidate. After the shenanigans with cutting power to mikes last time, and not (literally) allowing people in opposition to a motion to speak, that was enough. If they don't want my opinion or participation, I'm not going to give them another body to count to legitimize their proceedings.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis