Author Topic: Levin: Biggest News Yesterday Was Not Obamacare … and 'This Is Going to Be an Earthquake'  (Read 22131 times)

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Offline INVAR

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No, you are reading some things that I didn't write. 

How do you educate people for the purpose of elevating them?  Perhaps this is one part of the way to do so.  Why do you seem so adamant that it is not?

Congratulations.  You are the first person on this issue who has even bothered to swerve into answering the question about how to deal with a population that does not want limited government or a civil society.

Ask yourself - is the time to attempt to educate a people who want Socialism and big government in the midst of ratifying Amendments attempting to shrink it, wise?

Restoring a house on a foundation of shifting sand... well, its fate is going to be the same as it was before you started.

Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Sanguine

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Congratulations.  You are the first person on this issue who has even bothered to swerve into answering the question about how to deal with a population that does not want limited government or a civil society.

Ask yourself - is the time to attempt to educate a people who want Socialism and big government in the midst of ratifying Amendments attempting to shrink it, wise?

Restoring a house on a foundation of shifting sand... well, its fate is going to be the same as it was before you started.

Unequivocally "yes", now is the time to educate.

Offline the_doc

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As long as people assume the only solution to fixing and restoring our foundations is limited to just politics to the object of government, then it can never be restored.

"But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty once lost is lost forever. When the People once surrender their share in the Legislature, and their Right of defending the Limitations upon the Government, and of resisting every Encroachment upon them, they can never regain it". - John Adams, Letter to Abigail July 7, 1775

He wrote that because history and human nature bear that truth out and there is no exception to it.  An immoral, ignorant and indifferent people are incapable of maintaining a Constitution and will reject liberty in favor of slavery every single time.  I get nothing but silence, ridicule or aversion to the mere question about how to address that.

Actually, I have publicly endorsed your position.  I just haven't elaborated on your position beyond saying that a COS might buy us time (as I believe you have also admitted, even though you tend to believe that America's time is already fatally short, for the reasons you have repeatedly cited).

Your boldness concerning a looming final disaster for our Republic reminds me of the Old Testament prophet Jonah.  Unfortunately, that means that you will piss off a lot of people--mainly, in my opinion, because you are clearly correct about the utter seriousness of our national mess.  Your citations of our Founders and Framers are evidently unanswerable.  (I think TBR members, of all people, should take better note of that.)

You seem to be saying "Yet 40 days--or weeks, or whatever brief interval--and the proud but now depraved American Republic will be finally destroyed."  (Compare this with Jonah 3:4.) 

It is important to notice that Jonah did not offer any hope at all to Nineveh;  in that regard, the overall style of your blunt warning is not without precedent.  The most important difference between you and Jonah (to your credit, in my opinion) is that you are not claiming to be a prophet in the full Biblical sense thereof.  Instead of saying The Lord told me to warn America about this, you are essentially saying America's Christian and other God-conscious Founders and Framers have "told" me to warn America about a looming final disaster consistent with what the Bible also teaches more generally about the disaster of spurning our Creator.

In short, I think you are on very solid ground even if a lot of TBR members don't like your blunt style.

That brings me to a New Testament warning pivoting on Jonah's message: "The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here" (Matthew 12:41).  Under the circumstances of that warning, I cannot help but worry that most Americans do not want to hear a message of their helplessness in spiritual depravity--even though their distaste for that truth is the lynchpin of that very depravity.  I frankly think we TBR members need to receive your awful message even as we push for a COS. 

Your message is a hard message, but that is why it is important.  I think widespread lamentation would actually avert the disaster of which you speak (see Jonah 3:5). Unfortunately, I see no national movement of sackcloth and ashes, as it were.  (Religious "extremists" like you can't get a lot of attention in America beyond scoffing, even if your position is correct.)

I do see some of us trying to put a time-sensitive patch of one sort or another on our dangerous national dilemma.  I am one of those people, as you surely know through my own public advocacy for a COS, but I will not scoff or even complain about your warnings.  I will not call you a lunatic or a buffoon (even if you are, let's say, rhetorically flamboyant ^-^).  I am frankly hoping that our nation's Creator will give us more time to heed your message--which message is that America is in much more serious trouble than most Americans realize. 

Oddly enough, the real desperation of our situation largely consists in the fact that most people don't realize that our political situation is spiritually desperate.  Our Founders and Framers would surely tell us that having repeatedly elected to high office quite a few of the most evil men and women on the entire planet, our nation as a whole deserves whatever final doom God might very well have in store for us.

Electing a few "less evil" men and women will not fix the problem.  We just keep electing pretty rotten folks who promise to fix our nation's sundry problems and then fail to follow through against the root problems of America.  Dealing with the root problems requires the spiritually special leadership that stems from moral courage--not the leadership of political pep rally stuff for the groundlings of politics.  Sadly, most Americans are still wallowing in an ungodly sort of optimism to the effect that we can surely make America great again.  (It is ungodly optimism when it is stubborn presumption masquerading as faith in God--as it so often does.  I blame modern churchianity for this sort of mess.  Today's "easy-believism" pseudo-gospel essentially defines faith as simply bypassing any meaningful fear of God.  That's one of the biggest mistakes in the universe.  And it is as common as dirt in most modern churches.)

***

One of the most shocking texts that the Word of God has ever clearly applied to America in particular is actually in Isaiah Chapter 9, verses 8 and following.  I have often urged TBR members to get and read The Harbinger by Jonathan Cahn, and I still do so.  The parallels between America and reprobate Israel are astonishingly detailed when you know where to look, as Cahn certainly does.  It is a scholarly and thoughtful but downright eerie warning to America in particular.   

The truth is, we might not even have time to avert disaster for America.  Potential scenarios include nuclear war; an EMP attack; massive jihadist uprisings on our soil; a ruinous civil war facilitated by "community organizers"; and an economic collapse of the sort telegraphed by Allen Greenspan and possibly to be triggered by the cabal that you have mentioned (and also mentioned by many others on TBR).  Then, too, perhaps we should wonder about some of the over-the-top weird stuff that has reportedly caused a lot of billionaires to build underground bunkers designed to withstand cosmic cataclysms (or even an ET [?] invasion!). 

Some of this sounds completely crazy to most of us, perhaps, but that's beside the point.  The point is that we need to be sober enough to realize that we are defenseless if we do not really have God Himself defending us.  Our POTUS seems to be addressing most if not all of these disaster scenarios as fast as he can, but one or two failures could destroy us.  (Actually, a well-executed EMP attack alone could kill 200 million or more Americans, according to some studies.)

I am not flatfootedly declaring that any of these worst-case scenarios will occur.  But no one on TBR can flatfootedly tell us that none of them will occur.  The wrath of God can take any number of forms.  And no one has ever refuted Cahn's exegetically profound warnings.  In this regard, Cahn is not like the prophecy dingbats that plague modern churchianity.

***

That brings me to my own comments as to what Trump needs to be doing in parallel to everything he is currently doing.  He needs to keep his promise to drain the swamp. 

Trump needs to prosecute HRC.  He needs to let that prosecution expand to prosecute every last lying, government crook who has had any part in the larger global-Socialist conspiracy against the United States.  If and when the Clinton investigation turns up the child-sex-slavery ring that a number of credible sources have supposedly discovered, Trump should prosecute its members wherever they are found--whether in Congress or the Executive Branch or the Judiciary or the DNC or the RNC or the Pentagon or the CIA or the FBI.

He should also investigate Obama and prosecute him wherever the investigation leads. 

Trump has already indicated that he is not going to do any of these things.  That is an enormous mistake.  America needs to fully discover how evil our government has become.  My goodness, there are apparently a sizeable number of full-blown, practicing Satanists (both the Aleister Crowley kind and the Albert Pike kind) at very high levels of our government. 

We need to shake today's monumentally foolish electorate--including churchgoing but unregenerate fools.  At the same time, genuine Christians need to pray for another Jonathan Edwards to rise up with the message that built America in the first place--a message of sinners in the hands of an angry God.

Maybe, just maybe, America would finally repent under that warning.                     
 
   
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 10:50:43 pm by the_doc »

Offline INVAR

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Unequivocally "yes", now is the time to educate.

Finally some wisdom in the midst of the rush to amend the Constitution.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline INVAR

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Actually, I have publicly endorsed your position.  I just haven't elaborated on your position beyond saying that a COS might buy us time (as I believe you have also admitted, even though you tend to believe that America's time is already fatally short, for the reasons you have repeatedly cited).

Your boldness concerning a looming final disaster for our Republic reminds me of the Old Testament prophet Jonah.  Unfortunately, that means that you will piss off a lot of people--mainly, in my opinion, because you are clearly correct about the utter seriousness of our national mess.  Your citations of our Founders and Framers are evidently unanswerable.  (I think TBR members, of all people, should take better note of that.)

You seem to be saying "Yet 40 days--or weeks, or whatever brief interval--and the proud but now depraved American Republic will be finally destroyed."  (Compare this with Jonah 3:4.) 

It is important to notice that Jonah did not offer any hope at all to Nineveh;  in that regard, the overall style of your blunt warning is not without precedent.  The most important difference between you and Jonah (to your credit, in my opinion) is that you are not claiming to be a prophet in the full Biblical sense thereof.  Instead of saying The Lord told me to warn America about this, you are essentially saying America's Christian and other God-conscious Founders and Framers have "told" me to warn America about a looming final disaster consistent with what the Bible also teaches more generally about the disaster of spurning our Creator.

In short, I think you are on very solid ground even if a lot of TBR members don't like your blunt style.

That brings me to a New Testament warning pivoting on Jonah's message: "The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here" (Matthew 12:41).  Under the circumstances of that warning, I cannot help but worry that most Americans do not want to hear a message of their helplessness in spiritual depravity--even though their distaste for that truth is the lynchpin of that very depravity.  I frankly think we TBR members need to receive your awful message even as we push for a COS. 

Your message is a hard message, but that is why it is important.  I think widespread lamentation would actually avert the disaster of which you speak (see Jonah 3:5). Unfortunately, I see no national movement of sackcloth and ashes, as it were.  (Religious "extremists" like you can't get a lot of attention in America beyond scoffing, even if your position is correct.)

I do see some of us trying to put a time-sensitive patch of one sort or another on our dangerous national dilemma.  I am one of those people, as you surely know through my own public advocacy for a COS, but I will not scoff or even complain about your warnings.  I will not call you a lunatic or a buffoon (even if you are, let's say, rhetorically flamboyant ^-^).  I am frankly hoping that our nation's Creator will give us more time to heed your message--which message is that America is in much more serious trouble than most Americans realize. 

Oddly enough, the real desperation of our situation largely consists in the fact that most people don't realize that our political situation is spiritually desperate.  Our Founders and Framers would surely tell us that having repeatedly elected to high office quite a few of the most evil men and women on the entire planet, our nation as a whole deserves whatever final doom God might very well have in store for us.

Electing a few "less evil" men and women will not fix the problem.  We just keep electing pretty rotten folks who promise to fix our nation's sundry problems and then fail to follow through against the root problems of America.  Dealing with the root problems requires the spiritually special leadership that stems from moral courage--not the leadership of political pep rally stuff for the groundlings of politics.  Sadly, most Americans are still wallowing in an ungodly sort of optimism to the effect that we can surely make America great again.  (It is ungodly optimism when it is stubborn presumption masquerading as faith in God--as it so often does.  I blame modern churchianity for this sort of mess.  Today's "easy-believism" pseudo-gospel essentially defines faith as simply bypassing any meaningful fear of God.  That's one of the biggest mistakes in the universe.  And it is as common as dirt in most modern churches.)

***

One of the most shocking texts that the Word of God has ever clearly applied to America in particular is actually in Isaiah Chapter 9, verses 8 and following.  I have often urged TBR members to get and read The Harbinger by Jonathan Cahn, and I still do so.  The parallels between America and reprobate Israel are astonishingly detailed when you know where to look, as Cahn certainly does.  It is a scholarly and thoughtful but downright eerie warning to America in particular.   

The truth is, we might not even have time to avert disaster for America.  Potential scenarios include nuclear war; an EMP attack; massive jihadist uprisings on our soil; a ruinous civil war facilitated by "community organizers"; and an economic collapse of the sort telegraphed by Allen Greenspan and possibly to be triggered by the cabal that you have mentioned (and also mentioned by many others on TBR).  Then, too, perhaps we should wonder about some of the over-the-top weird stuff that has reportedly caused a lot of billionaires to build underground bunkers designed to withstand cosmic cataclysms (or even an ET [?] invasion!). 

Some of this sounds completely crazy to most of us, perhaps, but that's beside the point.  The point is that we need to be sober enough to realize that we are defenseless if we do not really have God Himself defending us.  Our POTUS seems to be addressing most if not all of these disaster scenarios as fast as he can, but one or two failures could destroy us.  (Actually, a well-executed EMP attack alone could kill 200 million or more Americans, according to some studies.)

I am not flatfootedly declaring that any of these worst-case scenarios will occur.  But no one on TBR can flatfootedly tell us that none of them will occur.  The wrath of God can take any number of forms.  And no one has ever refuted Cahn's exegetically profound warnings.  In this regard, Cahn is not like the prophecy dingbats that plague modern churchianity.

***

That brings me to my own comments as to what Trump needs to be doing in parallel to everything he is currently doing.  He needs to keep his promise to drain the swamp. 

Trump needs to prosecute HRC.  He needs to let that prosecution expand to prosecute every last lying, government crook who has had any part in the larger global-Socialist conspiracy against the United States.  If and when the Clinton investigation turns up the child-sex-slavery ring that a number of credible sources have supposedly discovered, Trump should prosecute its members wherever they are found--whether in Congress or the Executive Branch or the Judiciary or the DNC or the RNC or the Pentagon or the CIA or the FBI.

He should also investigate Obama and prosecute him wherever the investigation leads. 

Trump has already indicated that he is not going to do any of these things.  That is an enormous mistake.  America needs to fully discover how evil our government has become.  My goodness, there are an apparently a sizeable number of full-blown, practicing Satanists (both the Aleister Crowley kind and the Albert Pike kind) at very high levels of our government. 

We need to shake today's monumentally foolish electorate--including churchgoing but unregenerate fools.  At the same time, genuine Christians need to pray for another Jonathan Edwards to rise up with the message that built America in the first place--a message of sinners in the hands of an angry God.

Maybe, just maybe, America would finally repent under that warning.                     
 
   

 I am in tears reading your reply and cannot adequately express the gratitude I wish to convey for it.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart.  You discern me and what I have posted exceptionally well.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Sanguine

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Finally some wisdom in the midst of the rush to amend the Constitution.

Yes, but I am suggesting that happens during the CC process.

Online bigheadfred

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The only amendment I want to see is for term limits for all elected people.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline LateForLunch

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All of you nice folks (not a trace of sacrcasm intended) miss a critical part of the picture. I wish that I was wrong, but I am afraid that there is a lot of evidence that I'm not. I refer to the Prosperity Paradox and to its adjunct principle, the Leadership Paradox.

The Prosperity Paradox is my own forumlation that prolonged general prosperity inherently generates a configuration of elements which create exactly the opposite conditions which created that prosperity in the first place. This means that along the same general princple of the I Ching, all things in time become their opposites. General progress / prosperity for the world in time flips into general decline/poverty for the world.

I won't go into the reasons except to note that scientific studies in which ecosystems have unlimited nutrients and safe reproductive envoironments created for any species, result in that species eventually becoming dominated by cacogenic (inferior) strains, which in turn leads to the decline and in many cases, the destruction of the species.

The proliferation of cacogenic strains of homo sapiens sapiens is increasingly obvious. Between the militant fundie muzz and their supporters (thought to be in the hundreds of millions) the hundreds of millions of radical leftists (Marxist terrorists still account for nearly 15 % of all international terrorism), the countless illegal gang memers who run the international drug cartels, the despotic regimes who enslave millions, the vast surging throngs of desperate,  immoral, illiterate, idiotic, violence prone, ungovernable, pathogenic masses, what beacon of light now shines through?

The Leadership Paradox is the principle which states that in our age, those who are least worthy to obtain power over others almost invariably are the ones who seek such power the most energetically and successfully.

In light of these discouraging conditions, I look to God for protection and support, not primarily to Mankind. In light of these two dominant principles, I figure if our fate as a species depends on the good works of our own species, we have considerable reason for concern.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 12:25:26 am by LateForLunch »
GOTWALMA Get out of the way and leave me alone! (Nods to General Teebone)

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Finally some wisdom in the midst of the rush to amend the Constitution.
A Rush to Amend?  We have been under this Constitution for 228 years and have NEVER EVER had an Article V Convention.

Honestly, where do you pull your facts from?  All I see is hyperventilation.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline INVAR

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Yes, but I am suggesting that happens during the CC process.

"Let me add, that only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Benjamin Franklin, 1787

Given that quote from Franklin (and I chose it specifically because he was not exactly what you would call a fundamentalist Christian Right-Winger), and upon reflection of what he said - wouldn't that tell you that we would want an educated Electorate BEFORE the process rather than during the Convention or ratification process??

If only a virtuous people are capable of maintaining a Constitution of freedom and liberty, and that is the document and cause you wish to protect and strengthen via new Amendments, how could anyone expect amendments in our current cultural state to have the effect you desire if the education of an ignorant/indifferent electorate happens DURING the process rather than before it?

Sounds like cart before horse to me.  Switch them and I think we stand a better chance of success.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Sanguine

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"Let me add, that only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Benjamin Franklin, 1787

Given that quote from Franklin (and I chose it specifically because he was not exactly what you would call a fundamentalist Christian Right-Winger), and upon reflection of what he said - wouldn't that tell you that we would want an educated Electorate BEFORE the process rather than during the Convention or ratification process??

If only a virtuous people are capable of maintaining a Constitution of freedom and liberty, and that is the document and cause you wish to protect and strengthen via new Amendments, how could anyone expect amendments in our current cultural state to have the effect you desire if the education of an ignorant/indifferent electorate happens DURING the process rather than before it?

Sounds like cart before horse to me.  Switch them and I think we stand a better chance of success.

Yes, we definitely disagree on this.

But, we probably agree on more than we disagree on elsewhere. 

Offline INVAR

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A Rush to Amend?  We have been under this Constitution for 228 years and have NEVER EVER had an Article V Convention.

Well if you think simply having one is the be-all, end-all silver bullet to fix all our ills, problems and travails, knock your socks off and have one.

Similar thing I told folks who were convinced electing Trump was the answer to all our problems and would prove to be our savior.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Smokin Joe

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And it should have been started long ago.  But you fight with the army you have, not the one you want.  If we wait till we have an engaged and educated electorate to try to turn back from the increasingly authoritarian adminstrative state we have now, we'll never do so.  The energy's here now, the conditions are the best we've seen in decades, and we can't afford to wait.  The education effort should occur alongside the push for amendments coming from outside the DC beltway, but the push can't wait for the education to finish.
We are fighting with the army we have, in Congress. For what that's worth.
It is rife with traitors to their oath, and lousy with turncoats and liars who say one thing and do another. How did it come to pass that we elect people to run a country who have less credibility than cheap used car dealers and the reliability of three card monte.
The results are only a delaying action at this point, hardly winning back lost ground, and only in some areas making progress in the right direction. This, with a majority in both houses of Congress and the POTUS, too.

It turns out much of the army we have could be regarded as being of questionable loyalty to the Constitution, and those are the chosen 'best' faces who rose from ranks in districts all over at the behest of the voters.  The lesser candidates stayed at the State Level, or lower.
If we can't educate the voters to put in better people, the reliability of Republicans to uphold the Constitution in principle, in law, in fact, degrades even more significantly, and is even worse at the Federal Level.

You  may fight with the army you have, but don't go off half cocked.   If you can't trust the guys in the trenches with you, it's time to clean the turncoats out of the ranks. The reasons that is so difficult I have outlined in previous posts, and those problems can only be remedied by a moral, intelligent, and engaged electorate who will back the people we need in place to even select a panel of delegates from enough states to keep an Article V convention from being twisted by those who have made the current mess to ensure that mess is perpetuated.

Timing is important. What we have now is a holding action (sort of, so far), but the people in place who have been reticent to dispose of one of the most egregiously unConstitutional usurpations of power since Social Security, are not the crew to take the Hill with, or even take The Hill on, because they are a symptom of the deeper problem that goes from the Oval Office right down to the voting booth. The whole tree is diseased, from root to blossom, and if it can be cured, that cure will have to come from the bottom up.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Well if you think simply having one is the be-all, end-all silver bullet to fix all our ills, problems and travails, knock your socks off and have one.

Similar thing I told folks who were convinced electing Trump was the answer to all our problems and would prove to be our savior.
But where do you comprehend a Rush?

Once again, you make statements that ring hollow.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Smokin Joe

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All of you nice folks (not a trace of sacrcasm intended) miss a critical part of the picture. I wish that I was wrong, but I am afraid that there is a lot of evidence that I'm not. I refer to the Prosperity Paradox and to its adjunct principle, the Leadership Paradox.

The Prosperity Paradox is my own forumlation that prolonged general prosperity inherently generates a configuration of elements which create exactly the opposite conditions which created that prosperity in the first place. This means that along the same general princple of the I Ching, all things in time become their opposites. General progress / prosperity for the world in time flips into general decline/poverty for the world.

I won't go into the reasons except to note that scientific studies in which ecosystems have unlimited nutrients and safe reproductive envoironments created for any species, result in that species eventually becoming dominated by cacogenic (inferior) strains, which in turn leads to the decline and in many cases, the destruction of the species.

The proliferation of cacogenic strains of homo sapiens sapiens is increasingly obvious. Between the militant fundie muzz and their supporters (thought to be in the hundreds of millions) the hundreds of millions of radical leftists (Marxist terrorists still account for nearly 15 % of all international terrorism), the countless illegal gang memers who run the international drug cartels, the despotic regimes who enslave millions, the vast surging throngs of desperate,  immoral, illiterate, idiotic, violence prone, ungovernable, pathogenic masses, what beacon of light now shines through?

The Leadership Paradox is the principle which states that in our age, those who are least worthy to obtain power over others almost invariably are the ones who seek such power the most energetically and successfully.

In light of these discouraging conditions, I look to God for protection and support, not primarily to Mankind. In light of these two dominant principles, I figure if our fate as a species depends on the good works of our own species, we have considerable reason for concern.
I agree. Those paradoxes apply.

Every 'boom' brings the inevitable 'bust'. During that contraction, many of the best hands get sidelined by those more artful at playing politics to retain their position (the cacogenic phase). Eventually, those succumb to their own abilities or lack thereof, depending on what is considered, and the few who really are good at both rise in the food chain.

Humans have it relatively easy in the 'first' world, and instead of gathering sticks to cook over and water, are worried about far more esoteric woes such as fashion and pop 'culture'. The latter has gone overboard in an effort to retain 'freshness' and 'relevance' and that leads to the cultural decay in so many different aspects.

Would the Creator who put Adam and Eve in the Garden desire that we create this stressful and destructive 'utopia' for ourselves?  Perhaps, but only if we did not listen, and as an object lesson, not His greatest desire for humankind. It seems the less we toil for the basics, the farther we stray from Him and His plan for us all.

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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We are fighting with the army we have, in Congress. For what that's worth.
It is rife with traitors to their oath, and lousy with turncoats and liars who say one thing and do another. How did it come to pass that we elect people to run a country who have less credibility than cheap used car dealers and the reliability of three card monte.
The results are only a delaying action at this point, hardly winning back lost ground, and only in some areas making progress in the right direction. This, with a majority in both houses of Congress and the POTUS, too.

It turns out much of the army we have could be regarded as being of questionable loyalty to the Constitution, and those are the chosen 'best' faces who rose from ranks in districts all over at the behest of the voters.  The lesser candidates stayed at the State Level, or lower.
If we can't educate the voters to put in better people, the reliability of Republicans to uphold the Constitution in principle, in law, in fact, degrades even more significantly, and is even worse at the Federal Level.

You  may fight with the army you have, but don't go off half cocked.   If you can't trust the guys in the trenches with you, it's time to clean the turncoats out of the ranks. The reasons that is so difficult I have outlined in previous posts, and those problems can only be remedied by a moral, intelligent, and engaged electorate who will back the people we need in place to even select a panel of delegates from enough states to keep an Article V convention from being twisted by those who have made the current mess to ensure that mess is perpetuated.

Timing is important. What we have now is a holding action (sort of, so far), but the people in place who have been reticent to dispose of one of the most egregiously unConstitutional usurpations of power since Social Security, are not the crew to take the Hill with, or even take The Hill on, because they are a symptom of the deeper problem that goes from the Oval Office right down to the voting booth. The whole tree is diseased, from root to blossom, and if it can be cured, that cure will have to come from the bottom up.
We used to elect patriots, those who prioritize the good of the country above themselves.  These are now few and far between, with none in the Democrat party ranks.  The last they had were Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller, and there will be no more as they are ostracized by the Party.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Smokin Joe

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We used to elect patriots, those who prioritize the good of the country above themselves.  These are now few and far between, with none in the Democrat party ranks.  The last they had were Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller, and there will be no more as they are ostracized by the Party.
None questioned the patriotism of the old school (pre-'70s, pre-" New Left") Democrats. We didn't agree on what is good for the country all the time, but everyone wanted America to be stronger, smarter, and better, the best, strongest and most free country in the world.

Unfortunately the pathogen is endemic on both sides of the aisle, although the GOP is not completely infected. I think, however that gives us false hope that with the current composition of State Legislatures and Congress and local GOP districts we will have a group voting at any Convention which will place the good of the country above themselves, and would not be surprised (disappointed, but not surprised) to find the current GOP would seek to sabotage any attempt to rein in Federal Power. Those who are 'there' benefit, those who are climbing the ladder hope to if they don't already, those at the bottom are looking for that first rung. The whole process is infected, and those who are not are, I fear, the exception rather than the rule.

No army, unless absolutely forced in the heat of attack goes into battle unprepared and without doing all it can to bring about victory before the initiation of hostilities. It takes more than just fighting spirit, we need the numbers (delegates' votes) to prevail.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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None questioned the patriotism of the old school (pre-'70s, pre-" New Left") Democrats. We didn't agree on what is good for the country all the time, but everyone wanted America to be stronger, smarter, and better, the best, strongest and most free country in the world.

Unfortunately the pathogen is endemic on both sides of the aisle, although the GOP is not completely infected. I think, however that gives us false hope that with the current composition of State Legislatures and Congress and local GOP districts we will have a group voting at any Convention which will place the good of the country above themselves, and would not be surprised (disappointed, but not surprised) to find the current GOP would seek to sabotage any attempt to rein in Federal Power. Those who are 'there' benefit, those who are climbing the ladder hope to if they don't already, those at the bottom are looking for that first rung. The whole process is infected, and those who are not are, I fear, the exception rather than the rule.

No army, unless absolutely forced in the heat of attack goes into battle unprepared and without doing all it can to bring about victory before the initiation of hostilities. It takes more than just fighting spirit, we need the numbers (delegates' votes) to prevail.
The one item I find missing in the last paragraph is leadership.

As Reagan proved eloquently, leadership can sway the partisans. 

We need to find that leader in the make of a George Washington who had unquestioned respect, integrity and patriotism.  People will do what a real leader wishes done.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Smokin Joe

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The one item I find missing in the last paragraph is leadership.

As Reagan proved eloquently, leadership can sway the partisans. 

We need to find that leader in the make of a George Washington who had unquestioned respect, integrity and patriotism.  People will do what a real leader wishes done.
There are a couple I consider close in the current mix in DC, and frankly, I am even more suspicious by the time I get to the State Level. We need someone with the political savvy, but integrity, the ability to make hard choices but sell those to the people, who is unquestionably patriotic, but can convey that to even the most jaded. It is an especially tall order in this day and age.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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There are a couple I consider close in the current mix in DC, and frankly, I am even more suspicious by the time I get to the State Level. We need someone with the political savvy, but integrity, the ability to make hard choices but sell those to the people, who is unquestionably patriotic, but can convey that to even the most jaded. It is an especially tall order in this day and age.
I agree a tall order, but certainly within the bounds of possibility.

BTW, I lived in UK when Reagan was POTUS.  He had nothing on Maggie Thatcher as a leader.  That broad was some type of driven person to do what was best for her country and was able to persuade others to adopt her positions.  She charged ahead like Stormin Norman (A guy who I always yearned would run for President).
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Doug Loss

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We are fighting with the army we have, in Congress. For what that's worth.
It is rife with traitors to their oath, and lousy with turncoats and liars who say one thing and do another. How did it come to pass that we elect people to run a country who have less credibility than cheap used car dealers and the reliability of three card monte.
The results are only a delaying action at this point, hardly winning back lost ground, and only in some areas making progress in the right direction. This, with a majority in both houses of Congress and the POTUS, too.

It turns out much of the army we have could be regarded as being of questionable loyalty to the Constitution, and those are the chosen 'best' faces who rose from ranks in districts all over at the behest of the voters.  The lesser candidates stayed at the State Level, or lower.
If we can't educate the voters to put in better people, the reliability of Republicans to uphold the Constitution in principle, in law, in fact, degrades even more significantly, and is even worse at the Federal Level.

You  may fight with the army you have, but don't go off half cocked.   If you can't trust the guys in the trenches with you, it's time to clean the turncoats out of the ranks. The reasons that is so difficult I have outlined in previous posts, and those problems can only be remedied by a moral, intelligent, and engaged electorate who will back the people we need in place to even select a panel of delegates from enough states to keep an Article V convention from being twisted by those who have made the current mess to ensure that mess is perpetuated.

Timing is important. What we have now is a holding action (sort of, so far), but the people in place who have been reticent to dispose of one of the most egregiously unConstitutional usurpations of power since Social Security, are not the crew to take the Hill with, or even take The Hill on, because they are a symptom of the deeper problem that goes from the Oval Office right down to the voting booth. The whole tree is diseased, from root to blossom, and if it can be cured, that cure will have to come from the bottom up.

Ah, I see a flaw in your considerations.  When we talk about "the army we have," you seem to be talking almost exclusively about the federal government.  An Article V convention would not involve anyone in the federal government, at all.  And those feds could do damn all to stop it.  So yes, the federal government is compromised.  No one ever disputed that; it's the reason for the Article V convention, after all.  But those folks are also not the ones we're trying to get to rein in the feds.
My political philosophy:

1) I'm not bothering anybody.
2) It's none of your business.
3) Leave me alone!

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The Left will absolutely love the opportunities a constitutional convention gives them to cement socialism into the US constitution.   

Offline Cripplecreek

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The Left will absolutely love the opportunities a constitutional convention gives them to cement socialism into the US constitution.

I don't trust the current "right" any more than I trust the left. After all it wasn't the left that gave us the 16th and 17th amendments. They may have been ratified during the Wilson administration but both were right there as proposals in "populist right winger" Teddy Roosevelt's progressive party platform first.


Offline Sanguine

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The Left will absolutely love the opportunities a constitutional convention gives them to cement socialism into the US constitution.

How would a CC give them that opportunity @Oceander ?

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How would a CC give them that opportunity @Oceander ?

Obviously you have forgotten what occurred when a convention for the purpose of amending the Articles of Confederation was called.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien