Author Topic: The civil war in America  (Read 1189 times)

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Offline pjohns

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The civil war in America
« on: April 28, 2017, 11:48:22 pm »
I thought this was a most trenchant piece by Daniel Greenfield, in Frontpage Mag

"A civil war has begun.

"This civil war is very different than the last one. There are no cannons or cavalry charges. The left doesn’t want to secede. It wants to rule. Political conflicts become civil wars when one side refuses to accept the existing authority. The left has rejected all forms of authority that it doesn’t control.

"The left has rejected the outcome of the last two presidential elections won by Republicans. It has rejected the judicial authority of the Supreme Court when it decisions don’t accord with its agenda. It rejects the legislative authority of Congress when it is not dominated by the left.

"It rejected the Constitution so long ago that it hardly bears mentioning.

"It was for total unilateral executive authority under Obama. And now it’s for states unilaterally deciding what laws they will follow. (As long as that involves defying immigration laws under Trump, not following them under Obama.) It was for the sacrosanct authority of the Senate when it held the majority. Then it decried the Senate as an outmoded institution when the Republicans took it over.

"It was for Obama defying the orders of Federal judges, no matter how well grounded in existing law, and it is for Federal judges overriding any order by Trump on any grounds whatsoever. It was for Obama penalizing whistleblowers, but now undermining the government from within has become 'patriotic'."There is no form of legal authority that the left accepts as a permanent institution. It only utilizes forms of authority selectively when it controls them. But when government officials refuse the orders of the duly elected government because their allegiance is to an ideology whose agenda is in conflict with the President and Congress, that’s not activism, protest, politics or civil disobedience; it’s treason.

"After losing Congress, the left consolidated its authority in the White House. After losing the White House, the left shifted its center of authority to Federal judges and unelected government officials. Each defeat led the radicalized Democrats to relocate from more democratic to less democratic institutions.

"This isn’t just hypocrisy. That’s a common political sin. Hypocrites maneuver within the system. The left has no allegiance to the system. It accepts no laws other than those dictated by its ideology.

"Democrats have become radicalized by the left. This doesn’t just mean that they pursue all sorts of bad policies. It means that their first and foremost allegiance is to an ideology, not the Constitution, not our country or our system of government. All of those are only to be used as vehicles for their ideology.

"That’s why compromise has become impossible.

"Our system of government was designed to allow different groups to negotiate their differences. But those differences were supposed to be based around finding shared interests. The most profound of these shared interests was that of a common country based around certain civilizational values. The left has replaced these Founding ideas with radically different notions and principles. It has rejected the primary importance of the country. As a result it shares little in the way of interests or values.

"Instead it has retreated to cultural urban and suburban enclaves where it has centralized tremendous amounts of power while disregarding the interests and values of most of the country. If it considers them at all, it is convinced that they will shortly disappear to be replaced by compliant immigrants and college indoctrinated leftists who will form a permanent demographic majority for its agenda.

"But it couldn’t wait that long because it is animated by the conviction that enforcing its ideas is urgent and inevitable. And so it turned what had been a hidden transition into an open break.

"In the hidden transition, its authority figures had hijacked the law and every political office they held to pursue their ideological agenda. The left had used its vast cultural power to manufacture a consensus that was slowly transitioning the country from American values to its values and agendas. The right had proven largely impotent in the face of a program which corrupted and subverted from within.

"The left was enormously successful in this regard. It was so successful that it lost all sense of proportion and decided to be open about its views and to launch a political power struggle after losing an election.

"The Democrats were no longer being slowly injected with leftist ideology. Instead the left openly took over and demanded allegiance to open borders, identity politics and environmental fanaticism. The exodus of voters wiped out the Democrats across much of what the left deemed flyover country.

"The left responded to democratic defeats by retreating deeper into undemocratic institutions, whether it was the bureaucracy or the corporate media, while doubling down on its political radicalism. It is now openly defying the outcome of a national election using a coalition of bureaucrats, corporations, unelected officials, celebrities and reporters that are based out of its cultural and political enclaves."It has responded to a lost election by constructing sanctuary cities and states thereby turning a cultural and ideological secession into a legal secession. But while secessionists want to be left alone authoritarians want everyone to follow their laws. The left is an authoritarian movement that wants total compliance with its dictates with severe punishments for those who disobey.

"The left describes its actions as principled. But more accurately they are ideological. Officials at various levels of government have rejected the authority of the President of the United States, of Congress and of the Constitution because those are at odds with their radical ideology. Judges have cloaked this rejection in law. Mayors and governors are not even pretending that their actions are lawful.

"The choices of this civil war are painfully clear.

"We can have a system of government based around the Constitution with democratically elected representatives. Or we can have one based on the ideological principles of the left in which all laws and processes, including elections and the Constitution, are fig leaves for enforcing social justice.

"But we cannot have both.

"Some civil wars happen when a political conflict can’t be resolved at the political level. The really bad ones happen when an irresolvable political conflict combines with an irresolvable cultural conflict.

"That is what we have now.

"The left has made it clear that it will not accept the lawful authority of our system of government. It will not accept the outcome of elections. It will not accept these things because they are at odds with its ideology and because they represent the will of large portions of the country whom they despise.

"The question is what comes next.

"The last time around growing tensions began to explode in violent confrontations between extremists on both sides. These extremists were lauded by moderates who mainstreamed their views. The first Republican president was elected and rejected. The political tensions led to conflict and then civil war.

"The left doesn’t believe in secession. It’s an authoritarian political movement that has lost democratic authority. There is now a political power struggle underway between the democratically elected officials and the undemocratic machinery of government aided by a handful of judges and local elected officials.

"What this really means is that there are two competing governments; the legal government and a treasonous anti-government of the left. If this political conflict progresses, agencies and individuals at every level of government will be asked to demonstrate their allegiance to these two competing governments. And that can swiftly and explosively transform into an actual civil war.

"There is no sign that the left understands or is troubled by the implications of the conflict it has initiated. And there are few signs that Democrats properly understand the dangerous road that the radical left is drawing them toward. The left assumes that the winners of a democratic election will back down rather than stand on their authority. It is unprepared for the possibility that democracy won’t die in darkness.

"Civil wars end when one side is forced to accept the authority of the other. The left expects everyone to accept its ideological authority. Conservatives expect the left to accept Constitutional authority. The conflict is still political and cultural. It’s being fought in the media and within the government. But if neither side backs down, then it will go beyond words as both sides give contradictory orders.

"The left is a treasonous movement. The Democrats became a treasonous organization when they fell under the sway of a movement that rejects our system of government, its laws and its elections. Now their treason is coming to a head. They are engaged in a struggle for power against the government. That’s not protest. It’s not activism. The old treason of the sixties has come of age. A civil war has begun."This is a primal conflict between a totalitarian system and a democratic system. Its outcome will determine whether we will be a free nation or a nation of slaves."

Here is the link:  http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/266197/civil-war-here-daniel-greenfield

Online Bigun

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Re: The civil war in America
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2017, 12:02:30 am »
Actually it's been underway for some time now I believe and currently THEY are winning.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: The civil war in America
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2017, 01:12:39 am »
Actually it's been underway for some time now I believe and currently THEY are winning.
The way to win isn't to force them to be part of things, They already quit. So quit funding them, first and always, cut them off. If they riot in the streets, take what ever action is needed to shut it down. Breaking stuff and stealing things funds them. Finally, if they don't want to live under our rules, invite them to leave. Go. GTFO.
Surely some other nation on Earth would be happy to have so many talented and intelligent people come in and tell them how to run things at every level. Maybe Africa? No? Maybe one of the 'Stans? Ya don't think? How about Mexico, they like Mexicans.... :nometalk:
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 01:13:19 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Bigun

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Re: The civil war in America
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2017, 01:20:30 am »
The way to win isn't to force them to be part of things, They already quit. So quit funding them, first and always, cut them off. If they riot in the streets, take what ever action is needed to shut it down. Breaking stuff and stealing things funds them. Finally, if they don't want to live under our rules, invite them to leave. Go. GTFO.
Surely some other nation on Earth would be happy to have so many talented and intelligent people come in and tell them how to run things at every level. Maybe Africa? No? Maybe one of the 'Stans? Ya don't think? How about Mexico, they like Mexicans.... :nometalk:

All for it!  When do we start?
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: The civil war in America
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2017, 01:21:11 am »
All for it!  When do we start?
Yesterday! A whole wad of them promised they'd go to to Canada...
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 01:21:41 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: The civil war in America
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2017, 01:36:16 am »
Nope, no civil war. Political divisions are starker than ever, and seem to be unfolding in geographical terms that could portend a split in the union. But it won't happen in my lifetime, at least I don't think it will.

The real civil war killed half a million people so I think this dishonors their memory to compare the much more favorable situation now to the hell back then.

Online Bigun

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Re: The civil war in America
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2017, 01:45:01 am »
Nope, no civil war. Political divisions are starker than ever, and seem to be unfolding in geographical terms that could portend a split in the union. But it won't happen in my lifetime, at least I don't think it will.

The real civil war killed half a million people so I think this dishonors their memory to compare the much more favorable situation now to the hell back then.

We've not had a civil war until now!  I think you perhaps misunderstand what a civil war is.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 01:45:34 am by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: The civil war in America
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2017, 01:45:05 am »
Nope, no civil war. Political divisions are starker than ever, and seem to be unfolding in geographical terms that could portend a split in the union. But it won't happen in my lifetime, at least I don't think it will.

The real civil war killed half a million people so I think this dishonors their memory to compare the much more favorable situation now to the hell back then.
This isn't over yet. It is just beginning. The Leftists are growing increasingly violent, emboldened by police and others who have done nothing to dissuade them. They will not quit on their own, unless those who disagree with the Left capitulate, and that would be a loss.

Sometimes, there is no sweet and shiny answer to a problem, and unless they cease and desist, there will be none to this.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: The civil war in America
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2017, 01:45:59 am »
This isn't over yet. It is just beginning. The Leftists are growing increasingly violent, emboldened by police and others who have done nothing to dissuade them. They will not quit on their own, unless those who disagree with the Left capitulate, and that would be a loss.

Sometimes, there is no sweet and shiny answer to a problem, and unless they cease and desist, there will be none to this.

It's still not a civil war.

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: The civil war in America
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2017, 01:46:38 am »
We've not had a civil war until now!  I think you perhaps misunderstand what a civil war is.
True. That was the forced 'repatriation' of States which had voted to leave.

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: The civil war in America
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2017, 01:47:02 am »
We've not had a civil war until now!  I think you perhaps misunderstand what a civil war is.

Actually I think you do. A war has people fighting and dying. I don't see any of that happening. A few street brawls does not make a civil war.

Online Bigun

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Re: The civil war in America
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2017, 01:49:39 am »
Actually I think you do. A war has people fighting and dying. I don't see any of that happening. A few street brawls does not make a civil war.

War can take on many forms Grasshopper.  Thanks for playing!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline INVAR

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Re: The civil war in America
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2017, 01:50:07 am »
War is never civil.

What we are ripe for is a bloodbath - ala France in the late 1790s.  That is where I think all of this goes, and possibly sooner than anyone expects.

At some point all the fiat debt and spending is going to come home to roost as assuredly as the law of gravity, and as soon as this entitlement people experience empty shelves and privation - the thin veneer of civilization is going rip away and what transpires is going to make Ferguson, Berkley and Baltimore look like a walk with toddlers through a McDonalds play place.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: The civil war in America
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2017, 01:51:04 am »
War can take on many forms Grasshopper.  Thanks for playing!

Ok, there's a civil war in American like I have a war against dandelions in my flower beds. You got me there!

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: The civil war in America
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2017, 01:54:43 am »
War is never civil.

What we are ripe for is a bloodbath - ala France in the late 1790s.  That is where I think all of this goes, and possibly sooner than anyone expects.

At some point all the fiat debt and spending is going to come home to roost as assuredly as the law of gravity, and as soon as this entitlement people experience empty shelves and privation - the thin veneer of civilization is going rip away and what transpires is going to make Ferguson, Berkley and Baltimore look like a walk with toddlers through a McDonalds play place.

Yeah but I've been hearing this in these fevered political circles filled with angry screamers since I've been on the internet. Since it's a prediction about the future it's impossible to disprove (ie. if it happens it happens, and when it doesn't happen, then it "just hasn't happened yet").

The same loudmouths screaming on the internet about it back then are the same ones screaming about it now and it still hasn't happened. Makes the guy who predicts the end of the world every few years look downright prescient.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 01:56:50 am by Weird Tolkienish Figure »

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: The civil war in America
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2017, 01:55:29 am »
Ok, there's a civil war in American like I have a war against dandelions in my flower beds. You got me there!
Just curious, do you use chemical weapons or do you just dig them out and remove them?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Bigun

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Re: The civil war in America
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2017, 02:02:17 am »
War is never civil.

What we are ripe for is a bloodbath - ala France in the late 1790s.  That is where I think all of this goes, and possibly sooner than anyone expects.

At some point all the fiat debt and spending is going to come home to roost as assuredly as the law of gravity, and as soon as this entitlement people experience empty shelves and privation - the thin veneer of civilization is going rip away and what transpires is going to make Ferguson, Berkley and Baltimore look like a walk with toddlers through a McDonalds play place.

And it will all be over in a week or two max!  And when it is you had better be prepared for the new world you will find yourself in.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: The civil war in America
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2017, 02:10:27 am »
And it will all be over in a week or two max!  And when it is you had better be prepared for the new world you will find yourself in.
You mean????


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFGfCn5rKIM
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: The civil war in America
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2017, 02:12:53 am »
Just curious, do you use chemical weapons or do you just dig them out and remove them?

I nuke them from orbit, out of laziness and a general loathing of yardwork.

I have heard they are good eating though. I want to try it.

Offline Victoria33

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Re: The civil war in America
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2017, 02:23:50 am »
Yeah but I've been hearing this in these fevered political circles filled with angry screamers since I've been on the internet. Since it's a prediction about the future it's impossible to disprove (ie. if it happens it happens, and when it doesn't happen, then it "just hasn't happened yet").  The same loudmouths screaming on the internet about it back then are the same ones screaming about it now and it still hasn't happened. Makes the guy who predicts the end of the world every few years look downright prescient.
@Weird Tolkienish Figure

That is "normalcy bias", as in - it has never happened so it won't.