Author Topic: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs  (Read 31340 times)

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Offline r9etb

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #175 on: March 16, 2017, 04:10:03 pm »
On a more serious note. You realize you are suggesting that people have a right to the goods properties and income of others; and I can't find that in my Constitution.

Not so.

At most, I am suggesting that, through our elected representatives, We the People may decide to tax ourselves for specific purposes, including to help those who need it.  This has certainly been abused (the old line about "people voting themselves money" is true).  Nevertheless, the underlying principle is obvious.

As to "your Consitution," I've pointed out to you where in the Constitution it may be found, and even noted the USSC decision that recognized Congress' broad discretion to decide on what constitutes "the general Welfare."

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #176 on: March 16, 2017, 04:18:13 pm »
Not so.

At most, I am suggesting that, through our elected representatives, We the People may decide to tax ourselves for specific purposes, including to help those who need it.  This has certainly been abused (the old line about "people voting themselves money" is true).  Nevertheless, the underlying principle is obvious.

As to "your Consitution," I've pointed out to you where in the Constitution it may be found, and even noted the USSC decision that recognized Congress' broad discretion to decide on what constitutes "the general Welfare."

All quite reasonable,  to all but the ideologues.   

The Constitution is what makes all the difference.  Without it,  a tyrannical government can seize the property of the citizenry on a whim.  Under the Constitution's guarantees of due process and equal protection,  that doesn't happen - or if it does, the citizenry has redress.   And in our republic,  laws that promote the general welfare are enacted by our elected representatives, who can be turned from office if they overreach.   
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Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #177 on: March 16, 2017, 04:19:31 pm »
Not so.

At most, I am suggesting that, through our elected representatives, We the People may decide to tax ourselves for specific purposes, including to help those who need it.  This has certainly been abused (the old line about "people voting themselves money" is true).  Nevertheless, the underlying principle is obvious.

As to "your Consitution," I've pointed out to you where in the Constitution it may be found, and even noted the USSC decision that recognized Congress' broad discretion to decide on what constitutes "the general Welfare."
Yes you are, if we owe a debt or a moral obligation that payment must be due to someone. Legally speaking that give them a right to what they are owed. It isn't a point of debate it is a simple statement of the implications of what you said. A moral obligation on the part of one person indicates a right to receive. It's the other side of the coin. That's what makes this socialist. I don't owe anyone and no one owes me.

It's part of the code of the west. If it's not yours don't take it. 

As discussed it is not enumerated in the Constitution you can't twist the welfare clause to advocate that redistributing wealth is legal. Since everything the government claims to spend is for "the better good" and the "general welfare" and all of those shiny attractive chimeras anything can be justified. Luckily the rest of the Constitution exists to check that power and cancel that blank check.

Furthermore, you will not find the right of any citizen to receive anything from other citizens at the hands of the government.

 
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline r9etb

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #178 on: March 16, 2017, 04:20:46 pm »
Wow Ayn Rand wasn't a socialist.

No, but she was spectacularly wrong. 

I've read most of Rand's novels -- at one time I thought they were great, until the day I realized the fact that they're built on assertion, rather than reason.  Her "rational" philosophy is a house of cards that cannot withstand something as commonplace as the moral requirements of parenthood. 

The taint of her fallacy is what seems to inform a lot of what passes for argument on this thread. 

As for "Anthem," if you look at it seriously, you will see that it is a ridiculous book.  A middle-school fantasy, at best.  "Oh, I think I'll just go live in a hole and rediscover electricity, reinvent the light bulb, hike up to a cabin on top of a mountain, teach myself to read, and at the very end, in a moment of intellectual ecstasy, utter that one magic word: 'Ego.'"

In one way she shared a serious character flaw with the socialists: she doesn't seem to have seen people as people, with personalities and beliefs of their own.  Rather, she saw people only through the lens of her own ideology, and condemned or approved of them according to how well they fit her preconceptions.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 04:31:21 pm by r9etb »

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #179 on: March 16, 2017, 04:21:26 pm »
All quite reasonable,  to all but the ideologues.   

The Constitution is what makes all the difference.  Without it,  a tyrannical government can seize the property of the citizenry on a whim.  Under the Constitution's guarantees of due process and equal protection,  that doesn't happen - or if it does, the citizenry has redress.   And in our republic,  laws that promote the general welfare are enacted by our elected representatives, who can be turned from office if they overreach.
Yes as long as it can claim to promote the 'general welfare' our government can do anything. Tis a great philosophy. When it come to healthcare only the government has the ability to take from each according to his ability and give to each according to his need.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline r9etb

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #180 on: March 16, 2017, 04:30:26 pm »
Yes you are, if we owe a debt or a moral obligation that payment must be due to someone.

You're misrepresenting what I've been saying.

What I have said, is that we do have moral obligations.  The existence of such moral obligations does not, however, imply that "payment must be due to someone."  That's an over-reach on your part.

The fact of the moral obligation is not inextricably tied to a particular means by which that obligation may be discharged.  We have choices in the matter.

One such choice is, as I've stated, that through our elected representatives we may choose to tax ourselves to provide money for the purpose.  It's not the only way, and in many cases it's probably the worst way to go about addressing whatever problem you care to name.

But it is an option, and a legitimate one. 

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #181 on: March 16, 2017, 04:36:30 pm »
You're misrepresenting what I've been saying.

What I have said, is that we do have moral obligations.  The existence of such moral obligations does not, however, imply that "payment must be due to someone."  That's an over-reach on your part.

The fact of the moral obligation is not inextricably tied to a particular means by which that obligation may be discharged.  We have choices in the matter.

One such choice is, as I've stated, that through our elected representatives we may choose to tax ourselves to provide money for the purpose.  It's not the only way, and in many cases it's probably the worst way to go about addressing whatever problem you care to name.

But it is an option, and a legitimate one.
Obligation
ob·li·ga·tion
ˌäbləˈɡāSH(ə)n/
noun
an act or course of action to which a person is morally or legally bound; a duty or commitment.
"he has enough cash to meet his present obligations"
synonyms:   duty, commitment, responsibility, moral imperative; More
the condition of being morally or legally bound to do something
.
"they are under no obligation to stick to the scheme"
a debt of gratitude for a service or favor.
"she didn't want to be under an obligation to him"

So I have an obligation to do something, but that doesn't mean it isn't owed to someone else? Do you have a one sided coin I can borrow?

If someone doesn't have a right to my money why do I owe it? And if I don't owe it to others, why do I have a moral obligation to give it to them?

“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline r9etb

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #182 on: March 16, 2017, 04:55:08 pm »
More
the condition of being morally or legally bound to do something
.
"they are under no obligation to stick to the scheme"
a debt of gratitude for a service or favor.

So I have an obligation to do something, but that doesn't mean it isn't owed to someone else?

Well, yes. 

I'm pretty sure you recognize concepts such as duty and honor, and I'm pretty sure you count them as being important.  When we act out of duty or honor, it is generally for things involving other people -- including people we do not know.  We recognize that it is a bad thing to shirk one's duty, or to behave dishonorably.

Quote
If someone doesn't have a right to my money why do I owe it? And if I don't owe it to others, why do I have a moral obligation to give it to them?

Need we rehash the discussion about your elected representatives?

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #183 on: March 16, 2017, 04:56:18 pm »
Well, yes. 

I'm pretty sure you recognize concepts such as duty and honor, and I'm pretty sure you count them as being important.  When we act out of duty or honor, it is generally for things involving other people -- including people we do not know.  We recognize that it is a bad thing to shirk one's duty, or to behave dishonorably.

Need we rehash the discussion about your elected representatives?

Maybe. Let me chew this a little finer here. To whom do I owe this moral obligation and why do they have a right to it?
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #184 on: March 16, 2017, 05:03:00 pm »
I don't owe anyone and no one owes me.

It's part of the code of the west. If it's not yours don't take it. 


I agree, which is why I so strongly disagree with INVAR that only individuals can have moral obligations, not communities.   A community represents a social and legal compact, typically codified (as with our federal and state constitutions).   That compact forms the basis for a community's moral obligations, and its lawful means for effecting such obligations.   The Constitution, for example,  empowers the federal government to provide for the common defense and for the general welfare.   It is obligated to perform such functions,  by such lawful means as are approved by the peoples' elected representatives.   

INVAR says God obligates individuals to help the poor.  Fine,  but many folks don't subscribe to God, and plenty of religious folks are as selfish as anyone else.   Some of the least virtuous people I've ever met have been religious - and, disgracefully, religion is often cited as the justification for their lack of compassion and empathy.   

Any moral obligation of an individual comes from within, and is not, in and of itself, legally enforceable.      The moral obligations of the community are codified and implemented by the rules of the community.   Yes, the community can lawfully take from one and give to another,  subject to the restrictions of the Constitution and the right of the people to throw their elected representatives out on their arses.         
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 05:05:03 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline r9etb

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #185 on: March 16, 2017, 05:03:01 pm »
Maybe. Let me chew this a little finer here. To whom do I owe this moral obligation and why do they have a right to it?

Are you religious?

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #186 on: March 16, 2017, 05:06:45 pm »
Are you religious?
Why? Does that make a difference. You told me we all had a moral obligation. To whom do I owe it and why do I owe it? It's not a hard question.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 05:08:38 pm by Idaho_Cowboy »
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #187 on: March 16, 2017, 05:10:56 pm »
I agree, which is why I so strongly disagree with INVAR that only individuals can have moral obligations, not communities.   A community represents a social and legal compact, typically codified (as with our federal and state constitutions).   That compact forms the basis for a community's moral obligations, and its lawful means for effecting such obligations.   The Constitution, for example,  empowers the federal government to provide for the common defense and for the general welfare.   It is obligated to perform such functions,  by such lawful means as are approved by the peoples' elected representatives.   

INVAR says God obligates individuals to help the poor.  Fine,  but many folks don't subscribe to God, and plenty of religious folks are as selfish as anyone else.   Some of the least virtuous people I've ever met have been religious - and, disgracefully, religion is often cited as the justification for their lack of compassion and empathy.   

Any moral obligation of an individual comes from within, and is not, in and of itself, legally enforceable.      The moral obligations of the community are codified and implemented by the rules of the community.   Yes, the community can lawfully take from one and give to another,  subject to the restrictions of the Constitution and the right of the people to throw their elected representatives out on their arses.         
So the true moral obligation form the Bible isn't legally enforceable, but the one to the community (which is other people by the way) exists because a majority decided it does and should be enforced.

So as long as the majority agrees that healthcare costs should be collected from each according to his ability and distributed to each according to his need we should be okay with that?
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline r9etb

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #188 on: March 16, 2017, 05:15:24 pm »
Why? Does that make a difference. You told me we all had a moral obligation. To whom and why? It's not a hard question.

I asked for two reasons. 

First: if you are religious -- particularly if you are a Christian -- your duty is ultimately to God, and the moral obligations are pretty much laid out for you.

Second: if you're not religious, then the religious argument obviously doesn't carry any weight.  But in that case, it's difficult to say precisely what constitutes right or wrong.

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #189 on: March 16, 2017, 05:24:30 pm »
I asked for two reasons. 

First: if you are religious -- particularly if you are a Christian -- your duty is ultimately to God, and the moral obligations are pretty much laid out for you.

Second: if you're not religious, then the religious argument obviously doesn't carry any weight.  But in that case, it's difficult to say precisely what constitutes right or wrong.
Oh come now, you can do better than that. Ayn Rand, Richard Mayburry, and a host of others have put forth ways to organize society that doesn't require a voice from Sinai telling people, "because I sayeth so". The key here is human rights. If people don't have a right to the wealth of others; then I don't think you can justify it.

We've already discussed my views on what the Bible teaches. It does not teach that the government is to be our instrument of charity. Nor does it teach that we are to force the world to live to our standard.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #190 on: March 16, 2017, 05:31:39 pm »
I think we’re missing a few points.
1.   We have God-given inalienable individual rights, rights that no government can legitimately take away.
2.   Each one of us has a finite amount of time and resources on this earth, even though we don’t know until afterwards what those numbers were.
3.   The way humans are constructed is to desire to use one’s limited time and resources for oneself and family and community.
4.   Our government was formed by and for the people.  We gave up a very limited portion of some of our rights to do so.
5.   Said government was formed with very clear limits on its authority and how much of which rights we gave up.  And, most of these rights were vested in the states where they are more directly accountable, not the federal government.
6.   To force us to give up of our time and resources can be called slavery, forced servitude, whatever – clear violations of God-given inalienable rights.   
7.   The law under which this nation is formed limits the time and resources an individual must give up to others. 
8.   There is a difference between the voluntary giving up of resources in a very limited manner to the republic, and the government forcing us to give up more than we agreed to give up.  When we get to this point (which we have) we are in clear violation of the limits to the government that we agreed to.  One could argue that the contract has been broken and therefore no longer applies to the party that did not break the contract.  I don’t, I’m just saying it could be argued.

Offline INVAR

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #191 on: March 16, 2017, 05:33:30 pm »
So the true moral obligation form the Bible isn't legally enforceable, but the one to the community (which is other people by the way) exists because a majority decided it does and should be enforced.

So as long as the majority agrees that healthcare costs should be collected from each according to his ability and distributed to each according to his need we should be okay with that?
Not to mention that a perverted minority is vociferously argued to have *rights* afforded to them that infringe and impede on the biblical majority because... you know.... community and all according to our resident Communist Jazzhead.

From Each, To Each is what motivates the entirety of what he posts here.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #192 on: March 16, 2017, 05:39:16 pm »
I think we’re missing a few points.
1.   We have God-given inalienable individual rights, rights that no government can legitimately take away.
2.   Each one of us has a finite amount of time and resources on this earth, even though we don’t know until afterwards what those numbers were.
3.   The way humans are constructed is to desire to use one’s limited time and resources for oneself and family and community.
4.   Our government was formed by and for the people.  We gave up a very limited portion of some of our rights to do so.
5.   Said government was formed with very clear limits on its authority and how much of which rights we gave up.  And, most of these rights were vested in the states where they are more directly accountable, not the federal government.
6.   To force us to give up of our time and resources can be called slavery, forced servitude, whatever – clear violations of God-given inalienable rights.   
7.   The law under which this nation is formed limits the time and resources an individual must give up to others. 
8.   There is a difference between the voluntary giving up of resources in a very limited manner to the republic, and the government forcing us to give up more than we agreed to give up.  When we get to this point (which we have) we are in clear violation of the limits to the government that we agreed to.  One could argue that the contract has been broken and therefore no longer applies to the party that did not break the contract.  I don’t, I’m just saying it could be argued.
:amen:
Very well put. I was wondering how to verbalize the social contact side of the argument and you did magnificent.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #193 on: March 16, 2017, 05:40:45 pm »
Not to mention that a perverted minority is vociferously argued to have *rights* afforded to them that infringe and impede on the biblical majority because... you know.... community and all according to our resident Communist Jazzhead.

From Each, To Each is what motivates the entirety of what he posts here.
I'm reminded of Ben Franklin's view of democracy:  Two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. In this case it's the middle class paycheck that's on the menu.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline INVAR

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #194 on: March 16, 2017, 05:47:38 pm »
Do YOU recognize the moral obligation to feed the starving, give water to the thirsty, shelter to the freezing? 

I recognize the individual responsibility of moral obligation according to scripture.

I do NOT recognize empowering the government to do it. That is tyranny - plain and simple.  Governments so empowered ultimately decide whom gets charity and whom does not based on arbitrary criteria that satisfies political zeitgeists and requirements.  Like when I got laid off back in 1990 and the wife was told that she and my kids did not qualify for WIC because they were the 'wrong' ethnicity.  White Privilege and all that you know.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline r9etb

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #195 on: March 16, 2017, 05:49:27 pm »
Oh come now, you can do better than that. Ayn Rand, Richard Mayburry, and a host of others have put forth ways to organize society that doesn't require a voice from Sinai telling people, "because I sayeth so". The key here is human rights. If people don't have a right to the wealth of others; then I don't think you can justify it.

We've already discussed my views on what the Bible teaches. It does not teach that the government is to be our instrument of charity. Nor does it teach that we are to force the world to live to our standard.

No, you misunderstand.  I asked you the question because I wanted to see which way the discussion ought to go.

But since you bring it up, there are plenty of great examples of societies that explicitly rejected the "voice from Sinai,"  The French Revolution, and Communist Russia being a couple of particularly fine, if rather bloody, examples.

Quote
The key here is human rights. If people don't have a right to the wealth of others; then I don't think you can justify it.

Ah, but that's the rub.  Without something like a voice from Sinai, we're free to pretty much define human rights in any old way, including ways that you say are wrong (and wrong because...?).  The Founders were cognizant of this, which is why the Declaration says, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

The central conceit of man-made philosophy is that it can comprehensively define how we ought to behave.  The problem is it's impossible for any person or central committee to properly account for the many facets of human nature.  People just don't behave the way they're "supposed" to behave, according to the principles laid down by the sages.

Ayn Rand is a perfect example of how a man-made, supposedly reason-based philosophy can fail.  At root, she appears to have tried to create a philosophy that embodied the last 6 Commandments, without those troublesome first 4.  (Well, perhaps it's better to say the last 5 without the first 5, for reasons stated below.)

The basis of her Objectivism, and its weakest point, is summed up in John Galt's oath "I swear by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." 

The counter argument is simple: the moral obligations inherent in the relationship between parent and child, which touches both sides of that famous line, and upon contact Galt's oath simply withers like a slug exposed to salt.

A more general summary of Rand's philosophy is here: http://aynrandlexicon.com/ayn-rand-ideas/introducing-objectivism.html, and her philosophy can be refuted in detail; however, the obvious fracture point occurs in Galt's oath.  Just as an example, Rand held that "Reality exists as an objective absolute—facts are facts, independent of man’s feelings, wishes, hopes or fears."  Well, OK ... and if we look at reality, i.e., nature,  in its entirety, it doesn't look very much like the philosophy Rand claims to have derived from it.

« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 05:54:10 pm by r9etb »

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #196 on: March 16, 2017, 05:54:03 pm »
I'm going to have to give this some thought. I think I'll have to track down my copy of Anthem if you want to debate Rand and the state of nature.

In the mean time I'll ask a quick, unfair, nitpicky, sniping question.  :laugh: If the government enforced all 10 of the 10 commandments would it violate the first amendment?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 05:54:21 pm by Idaho_Cowboy »
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline r9etb

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #197 on: March 16, 2017, 05:55:41 pm »
I'm going to have to give this some thought. I think I'll have to track down my copy of Anthem if you want to debate Rand and the state of nature.

In the mean time I'll ask a quick, unfair, nitpicky, sniping question.  :laugh: If the government enforced all 10 of the 10 commandments would it violate the first amendment?

We've seen how well that turns out...

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #198 on: March 16, 2017, 05:58:04 pm »
We've seen how well that turns out...
I don't really want a ticket or jail time for working on Saturday.  :whistle:
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #199 on: March 16, 2017, 06:08:37 pm »
So the true moral obligation form the Bible isn't legally enforceable, but the one to the community (which is other people by the way) exists because a majority decided it does and should be enforced.

So as long as the majority agrees that healthcare costs should be collected from each according to his ability and distributed to each according to his need we should be okay with that?

I'm not saying you should be "okay" with that,  only that such taxation and expenditures are perfectly Constitutional.  ObamaCare is Constitutional and the Republicans'  AHCA proposal, if enacted into law, would also be Constitutional.  And, finally, a single payer system would also be Constitutional (and that's in fact exactly what Medicare and Medcaid are).   All Constitutional, of course, subject to the satisfaction of due process,  equal protection and other Constitutional constraints on the state.   

If you're not okay with that, then you need to elect representatives that reflect your views, and defeat those who oppose those views.   But don't insist on a deus ex machina. 
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide