Freedom Caucus balks at Republican leadership's Obamacare replacement

[Sanguine]

Quote from: Jazzhead on Today at 12:58:34 PM

    It was the government that set the rules that cause such arbitrary differences in outcomes between equally virtuous and hard-working people.  It's the moral imperative of government to try to fix it. 

With that, I am rendered speechless.

@Jazzhead, I'm impressed.  You finally clearly and unambiguously addressed the questions that many of us have had about your viewpoint and ideology.  That would be a great statement to include in your signature, so no one would ever again be confused by your posts.

[XenaLee]

With that, I am rendered speechless.


@Jazzhead, I'm impressed.  You finally clearly and unambiguously addressed the questions that many of us have had about your viewpoint and ideology.  That would be a great statement to include in your signature, so no one would ever again be confused by your posts.

Maybe he needs to change his name.... to something more indickative of his political ideology...lolol (ooops...did I say that out loud?)

[txradioguy]

You miss the point.   Of course you work hard.  But so do many others who don't have the good fortune to work for a large corporation that can afford good health benefits.   The current employer-based system is ARBITRARY in who has access to quality health care, and who doesn't.

Why should the basic question of whether one lives or dies depend on whether one works for a large and generous employer?

Of the 5.73 million businesses in the United States, more than 98 percent, 5.635 million, have fewer than 100 employees. That's compared with just over 99,000 businesses that have more than 100 employees.

Your class warfare talking appoint about "big business" picking the winners and losers in healthcare is now useless.

Personal example...my father has been self employed since 1983 when I was in Jr. High...not ONCE did we ever not have healthcare or were denied care for any reason. His small office...the largest it ever was, was 5 people working for him had full coverage through their employer (my dad).

There was no large "big business" looming over him doing anything to affect his ability to provide healthcare for himself...his family or his employees.

No man is an island, sis.

 

But the whole "it takes a village" concept you're pushing for isn't the American way either.

It was the government that set the rules that cause such arbitrary differences in outcomes between equally virtuous and hard-working people.  It's the moral imperative of government to try to fix it.

 

So by your thinking government created the problem...broke the system and now we must depend on them to fix what they broke?

[txradioguy]

@Jazzhead
@txradioguy

The govt has mucked up healthcare and the insurance industry to an unbelievable level.  A big part of why healthcare is so expensive is because of government interference.   The amount of regulations they have to comply with is MIND BOGGLING.   Not to mention the laws which make it easy to sue doctors and their staff.

So until that is fixed and the artificially high prices can be normalized I really don't have an issue with the govt using free market principles to make insurance more affordable.

Whining about the govt trying to make insurance more affordable while ignoring the rest of the picture is futile.

The fix is easy.  But too many people...some even call themselves Conservatives have become too enamored with the idea of the Government fixing it.

The government can't fix the problem...the government IS the problem.

[Lando Lincoln]

With that, I am rendered speechless.


@Jazzhead, I'm impressed.  You finally clearly and unambiguously addressed the questions that many of us have had about your viewpoint and ideology.  That would be a great statement to include in your signature, so no one would ever again be confused by your posts.

I really cannot take the time for forming arguments and counter arguments in this broad philosophy.  I will compliment @Jazzhead for his elegant and succinct iteration of a closely held and central tenet of today's progressive socialism.  I say that with no sarcasm, rancor or intention to insult.  He is of one ideological bent, I am of the opposite.  It happens.

[Wingnut]

Like yesterday and his "who made you pope of this dump" he'll throw up some lame excuse to as to why he really doesn't hold socialist positions...

So, I'm waiting right here! 

Who's got the popcorn?

[txradioguy]

Like yesterday and his "who made you pope of this dump" he'll throw up some lame excuse to as to why he really doesn't hold socialist positions...

So, I'm waiting right here! 

Who's got the popcorn?

Here ya go...I'll share

[Cyber Liberty]

Like yesterday and his "who made you pope of this dump" he'll throw up some lame excuse to as to why he really doesn't hold socialist positions...

So, I'm waiting right here! 

Who's got the popcorn?

[Wingnut]

Here ya go...I'll share

Thanks guys.  My micr0wave is on the fritz.

[mountaineer]

Why should the basic question of whether one lives or dies depend on whether one works for a large and generous employer?

If only the government would control all labor ... what a wonderful world this would be!


Yo ho, yo ho, it's off to work we go!

[Cyber Liberty]

Thanks guys.  My micr0wave is on the fritz.

Here's some brew if your refrigerator is in the same union as your microwave...

 

[Cyber Liberty]

If only the government would control all labor ... what a wonderful world this would be!


Yo ho, yo ho, it's off to work we go!

I'm trying to imagine what the reaction would be if I told my co-workers our employer (which is very large, scores of thousands of employees) is "generous."  I'll probably be on TBR full time for a while, from my hospital bed.   

[INVAR]

I'm no socialist ... I consider you selfish in the extreme, apparently without compassion for those left high and dry by our current system that only provides affordable coverage to those lucky enough to work for large companies.   YOU had options - but you seek to deny options to others who are no doubt more virtuous than you.  These are folks who work two, three part-time jobs to make ends meet, none of which offer health insurance.   Do you not care about creating a fair system with reasonable access for all who are willing to work hard?  Obviously not; you've got yours and to hell with everyone else.

You insist you are not a Socialist, and then go on to use the exact talking points that overt Socialists use to bash those who refuse to capitulate and accept their Leftist ideals.  Everything from declaring they are without compassion; bash the rich vs the 'virtuous' poor; bash the employed vs the 'virtuous' unemployed; demand government create fairness and attempt to shame everyone who opposes using government in that fashion.

Case-in-point:

Ah, bullshit.  This has nothing to do with hard work or the lack thereof.   This has to do with GOOD FORTUNE - the luck to be able to work with a large, rich company able to offer good group health benefits.   

If you are the recipient of good fortune and say to hell with those who aren't - regardless of virtue - then yeah, you're selfish.

ONLY LEFTISTS AND MARXISTS talk like that, and refer to those who succeed in life with 'luck' and 'good fortune' (winning life's lottery) rather than acknowledging the hard work that went into obtaining a career and position.  Inciting envy is the hallmark of the Leftist.

You sir, are a LIAR.  And a BIG LIAR AT THAT.  You are INDEED a Socialist at minimum - by your very own words - and a godless Christian-hating Marxist in all practicality based on your arguments made on this board.

You are not fooling anyone about what you really are, and what you are all about.  You yourself said you exist here to 'get under everyone's skin', poke us in the eye and stir up trouble.

Attempting to deceive everyone by your false insistences that you are not what your own words reveal you to be, makes you the laughing stock of this board.

[Wingnut]

Here's some brew if your refrigerator is in the same union as your microwave...

 

Thanks. and it is.  I had been keeping the cans cool in the bidet.

[Cyber Liberty]

Attempting to deceive everyone by your false insistences that you are not what your own words reveal you to be, makes you the laughing stock of this board.

Proof: 

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

I'm starting to wish ignore applied to quotes as well.

At least I know that's the stupidest thing I'll read today (I'm not opening the Pat Bucahanan thread).

[Wingnut]

Proof: 

When ever I see that little guy I have A-lert flash backs!

[INVAR]

I really cannot take the time for forming arguments and counter arguments in this broad philosophy.  I will compliment @Jazzhead for his elegant and succinct iteration of a closely held and central tenet of today's progressive socialism.  I say that with no sarcasm, rancor or intention to insult.  He is of one ideological bent, I am of the opposite.  It happens.

I think it is perfectly wonderful that we have a Christian-bashing Liberal Socialist on the board so we can use his ideological arguments for combat practice.

He would garner more respect for his presence here if he would simply stop lying about what his real ideology and agenda is.

Sadly he admitted that 'getting under our skin' is the main motivation for his posting here.  A true hallmark of a troll - if indeed that is the only reason he is here.

That said, I think his liberal socialist presence is a benefit to the board for our sharpening of iron against the ideology and agenda he embodies.

[Cyber Liberty]

Sadly he admitted that 'getting under our skin' is the main motivation for his posting here.  A true hallmark of a troll - if indeed that is the only reason he is here.

That said, I think his liberal socialist presence is a benefit to the board for our sharpening of iron against the ideology and agenda he embodies.

I'd make book on that being the reason he's still here.

[Jazzhead]

It was the government that set the rules that cause such arbitrary differences in outcomes between equally virtuous and hard-working people.  It's the moral imperative of government to try to fix it.

With that, I am rendered speechless.

C'mon, Lando, you're one of the good guys here.  What did you think I was referring to?   The current employer-based system is driving by government tax policy -  an employer can deduct the cost of insurance it provides to its employees, and employees can exclude the value of insurance from their taxable incomes.   But those who purchase insurance in the individual marketplace must pay for insurance with after-tax dollars.  Do you consider that fair?  Do you see how that's caused arbitrary differences in health insurance access to arise, based entirely on one's good fortune to work for a generous company that provides benefits?   

[Wingnut]

C'mon, Lando, you're one of the good guys here. 

Lando has enough internet friends.   No need to suck up to him.

[Lando Lincoln]

True story:

Many of you know I have twin boys who are adults today.  Years ago, we lived near Louisville, Kentucky in a nice residential neighborhood.  My boys were quite young - I think 5 years-old.  It was Easter and one of the neighborhood Moms hosted an Easter egg hunt for the young kids.  So, we all gathered at the host family's home and this is how it went:

Host Mom:  Hmmm... how many children are there? 1,2,3... 20!

More host Mom:  Okay, I have 280 eggs hidden.  Divided by 20 children... Okay everyone, listen!  When you are all done, count your eggs.  If you have more than 14 eggs, you have to give your extras to someone who has less than 14 eggs. Everyone gets 14 eggs!

Me: Can you say socialism, boys and girls?

Oh my!  Mrs. Lando and Host Mom each shot me down with the... stink eye!  One Dad in particular burst out laughing which made it worse.   

Now, with thanks to Paul Harvey, here's the rest of the story...  My boys and a couple others stopped at 14 eggs.  They simply saw no reason to continue "working".

Mrs. Lando still tells the story.  My boys, while not really remembering the day, have heard it repeated over the years and have retained its lesson.

Yes, it is a true story.

[EC]

YOU had options - but you seek to deny options to others who are no doubt more virtuous than you.

Just going to whip this out ....

No.

She MADE options, wasn't given them. Virtue has jack all to do with it. Work and being willing to get out there and hustle does.

I look out for my own first. If that's selfish - tough shit.

[INVAR]

I'd make book on that being the reason he's still here.

Correct.  It's why he is italicizing his Liberal Talking points now.

[INVAR]

True story:

Many of you know I have twin boys who are adults today.  Years ago, we lived near Louisville, Kentucky in a nice residential neighborhood.  My boys were quite young - I think 5 years-old.  It was Easter and one of the neighborhood Moms hosted an Easter egg hunt for the young kids.  So, we all gathered at the host family's home and this is how it went:

Host Mom:  Hmmm... how many children are there? 1,2,3... 20!

More host Mom:  Okay, I have 280 eggs hidden.  Divided by 20 children... Okay everyone, listen!  When you are all done, count your eggs.  If you have more than 14 eggs, you have to give your extras to someone who has less than 14 eggs. Everyone gets 14 eggs!

Me: Can you say socialism, boys and girls?

Oh my!  Mrs. Lando and Host Mom each shot me down with the... stink eye!  One Dad in particular burst out laughing which made it worse.   

Now, with thanks to Paul Harvey, here's the rest of the story...  My boys and a couple others stopped at 14 eggs.  They simply saw no reason to continue "working".

Mrs. Lando still tells the story.  My boys, while not really remembering the day, have heard it repeated over the years and have retained its lesson.

C'mon now Lando, that's not 'Socialism' - that's just 'fairness' - and it is the function of Momma and by extension, Government to impose 'fairness'.  You know this.  All civilized intelligent people agree that fairness being imposed is necessary for everyone to get a piece of the finite pie.

Some persons of course being more equal to get more pie than others because they are 'virtuous' by their self-imposed handicaps.

/sarc.