Gorsuch Staunchly Opposes ‘Aid in Dying.’ Does It Matter?

[Gefn]

Would you please ping me on your reply, @Freya?  To me, this is a very fundamental issue of whether we control our destinies, or whether the State owns us.

@Suppressed , this is a topic that is dear to me. I want to make sure every word is correct, so I'm taking my time writing.

In a nutshell, my life is mine and I believe I should control it. I have signed a DNR when I've had surgeries and when I lost my kidneys several years ago. I didn't want to be on life support. My parents did not agree, but I said I was over 18 it was my life. Take out what ever organs were viable and cremate me, something my parents were adamant against as well.

I also have a living will, along with a regular will. 

[Suppressed]

@Suppressed , this is a topic that is dear to me. I want to make sure every word is correct, so I'm taking my time writing.

In a nutshell, my life is mine and I believe I should control it. I have signed a DNR when I've had surgeries and when I lost my kidneys several years ago. I didn't want to be on life support. My parents did not agree, but I said I was over 18 it was my life. Take out what ever organs were viable and cremate me, something my parents were adamant against as well.

I also have a living will, along with a regular will.

I just met with the lawyer last week to do a will and living will.

I want palliative care only.  And I don't want big-government statists getting in between my doctor and me.

[goodwithagun]

You don't.  I'm surprised that I have to explain to you inherent rights -- and freedoms.

Wrong, but nice try.

[Suppressed]

An eloquent monologue, but it's mostly off the target, @Smokin Joe.  We don't take away rights just because they could be abused.

Sorry, but I'm not for opening that door. I'm not for giving the Government another power it can abuse.

I'm not for giving the government another power it can abuse...the power to decide whether or not we can have assistance in our exit.  The government has no business in that.

If you want to end it, you'll find a way--I seriously doubt you will have to worry about being prosecuted if you are dead. I won't approve, sorry.

Many who choose a peaceful exit wait as long as possible to do so.  One problem is that they often wait until they are unable to do it themselves.  I suppose you're advocating people off themselves sooner, rather than wait until they need assistance.

And think it's rather ridiculous to think that our hospitals and nursing homes should be cleaning brain matter off the walls, rather than allowing peaceful departures.

[EC]

A wonderful catch of red herring, there. In the first, exercising that right harms no one. It is the use of the firearm which might, and that is a different, and well-regulated issue.

In the second, the public is played for suckers regularly. If we  actually had positions where the public trust was all that was needed, those positions would not be subject to so many rules and regulations. It is an oxymoron.

The latter two imply that someone is, indeed, messing with someone or their children. There is a point where the assumed right to mess with someone or their children may kick in, but usually there are statures governing that point. Not to say those aren't abused--they are--anyone with a lick of sense and an understanding of the prevarications employees of official agencies are willing to employ, in at least some instances, to seize control of persons or their progeny is quite wary of the extraconstitutional powers granted to specific agencies for the purpose of "doing good", even though those ends are often destructive and employed in order to maintain relevance for the employee or agency.

If you want to end it all, I won't get between you and your bullet, even though I won't sanction such. What I seek to avoid is the situation where someone is medicated into a state of mind where they are vulnerable to the tender ministrations (and selfish ambitions) of those who would rather have them dead, for fun or profit.

It isn't easy to care for an ailing relative in their final days. It might be even harder for some to watch them approach their lifetime insurance payout maxima, see the estate dwindling like numbers spooling down on a counter as the bills add up, and realizing their earthly reward for caring for that person is disappearing fast or gone and the cost will come out of pocket.

Officially, it doesn't take much more before the 'Public cost' is talleyed up and someone becomes 'too expensive' to keep around.... Before the public is clamoring at the expense and before little kids dying of some cancer are paraded around as poster children for getting rid of Granny, because the budget won't handle both--a situation we've all been programmed for with the "lifeboat problem" of the "kidney machine problem" in school at some point.

Margie Sanger would be so proud. Maybe she gets cold cokes in Hell for her efforts.

Some day, your day will come. No one knows when or how, but the 'if' part is pretty well figured out. So it is for all of us.

You do realize that there are medications which have the common side effect of "Suicidal thoughts"? I was prescribed one (no longer on the market) for joint pain and in two days wanted to end it all. Now, I thought about that, and realized everything was going incredibly well in my life. It made no sense, until I realized it was the medication. I quit that, and in two days was back to normal. For someone who had not understood that they were dealing with a pharmacologically altered mental state, or for whom life simply sucked at the time, the outcome might have been quite different. Not to mention the legions of adolescents who are still developing coping skills who might decide 'it's too hard' and check out before they even have a chance to learn how to live.
And we haven't even really broached the topic of mandated termination, which will come, especially if health care costs are picked up by the public at large. That one time payment of one penny (per person) which would grant almost any level of care needed to get almost any person through will be touted as 'too much'.
Sorry, but I'm not for opening that door. I'm not for giving the Government another power it can abuse. If you want to end it, you'll find a way--I seriously doubt you will have to worry about being prosecuted if you are dead. I won't approve, sorry.

Not worried about me being prosecuted - although trying and failing does carry jail time in the UK. It's rarely applied, but the law is on the books.

My response to your well argued case is, I guess, threefold:

I have a slightly different mindset on this, as it's a constant part of my working life. We're trained not to be captured. What, exactly, do you think that may ultimately entail? I've thought about it - a lot. It's preparation, if nothing else.

Life is not precious. If it were, no one would advocate for the death of another (conveniently carried out by a third party). Consciousness is precious.

Finally, I absolutely refuse to treat my family or myself with less dignity than we treat the cats. Been in enough hospitals to know one thing, bone deep - I don't want to live in one.

[Smokin Joe]

An eloquent monologue, but it's mostly off the target, @Smokin Joe.  We don't take away rights just because they could be abused.

Where is there a "Right" to die? Cite your sources.

I suppose you're advocating people off themselves sooner, rather than wait until they need assistance.

You suppose incorrectly. I am not advocating people off themselves at all. In my belief system, the time, place, and manner of our passing are seldom our choice, and left to Almighty God: we did not grant ourselves this life, it is ours to live, but not to take away.

And think it's rather ridiculous to think that our hospitals and nursing homes should be cleaning brain matter off the walls, rather than allowing peaceful departures.

Killing is so much nicer when it's all neat and tidy, right? Can't make a mess?

[Smokin Joe]

I have a slightly different mindset on this, as it's a constant part of my working life. We're trained not to be captured. What, exactly, do you think that may ultimately entail? I've thought about it - a lot. It's preparation, if nothing else.

Occupational hazard. I have been a firefighter/EMS and we placed ourselves in harm's way (we weren't getting shot at, thankfully), but we did so to save others, and less so to save property or prevent further damage.

Life is not precious. If it were, no one would advocate for the death of another (conveniently carried out by a third party). Consciousness is precious.

Nonsense. If life were not precious, how come we risk the lives of many to save a single person, be they comrade or stranger? We risk our lives for community and country, we go to extraordinary measures to preserve life, to survive. Without life, there cannot exist consciousness as we know it so we go to great extremes to keep it, to save others, to survive. If life was not precious we'd be so many more Eloi watching one of our own wash downstream with no care or concern.

Sorry, but I know I'm not wired that way, and I seriously doubt you are either, despite having been in situations where some lives were far more precious than others.

Finally, I absolutely refuse to treat my family or myself with less dignity than we treat the cats.

How you treat your cat is up to you. From that remark, you don't put down your own animals, either.

Been in enough hospitals to know one thing, bone deep - I don't want to live in one.

The vast majority of time I have spent in hospitals has been on others' behalf, not my own. I avoid the places as much as possible, and doubt I will die in one unless I came in the ER, but then I don't ultimately control events, so who knows?
The option to refuse care exists here, and a person may exercise that option, even if it means their death. That might not seem as comfortable as getting the same needle we reserve for the most evil of convicted criminals, but the option is there. Of course, it's decidedly inconvenient for all involved if the person who refuses treatment also refuses to just up and die, kinda like a spurious pregnancy.
But if some do it, there are those who will want it done by all, and at some point medical facilities and staff will be required to provide the service. If a baker of florist isn't allowed to not provide a service based on religious objections, then health care professionals are next. Some doctors will simply quit, which will leave the ones who are just as happy to (chemically) pith you like a frog, cut out the marketable bits, and chuck the rest. You wouldn't part out your cat.