Conservatives fret GOP is blowing Obamacare repeal

[Jazzhead]

Let's get real for a moment.  The fixing or replacement of the ACA is going to be extraordinarily difficult, and bound to disappoint those in the fever swamps.    The reason is the political realities of the age, realities that spawned ObamaCare and doomed it to failure.

Contrary to the folk tale,  the ACA is not a nefarious stalking horse for single payer, although there are no doubt those on the left who'd love the chance to replace it with single payor.   The temptation is irresistible if you deem health insurance to be a right -  if that's the case,  then spread its costs among the entire community, preferably in a progressive fashion. 

But the reality is that access to health insurance is very arbitrary in this country, and you can blame government policy for that.  It depends on whether you have a stable job with a stable employer.  And that causes inequities in, literally, matters of life and death, to be equally arbitrary.  Lots of hard working folks don't have health insurance.   

The ACA has its intellectual origins in 70s-era conservatism.   How to address the access issue through a private insurance marketplace without single payer  Require everyone to purchase insurance, and the pool will be large enough to sustain a market of guaranteed access insurance for all. 

But the political underpinnings of the ACA are all post-Bork partisan warfare.   The ACA garnered no GOP support,  yet Dem support was near unanimous.   So that required the ACA to basically be the bill that was able to satisfy the blue dog Democrats,  the most moderate elements of the party that would be willing to sign on.    The left essentially compromised with Democratic moderates, leaving a failed mess of the left's costly benefit mandates coupled with the blue dogs' insistence on a private insurance market financed by forced participation by both individuals and employers.

The boot's on the other foot in 2017.   Not one Democrat will support any GOP plan to fix or replace ObamaCare.  Not one.  Tit for tat.  We screwed them, they will screw us.   No, the only way we are going to be able to fix or replace ObamaCare is to do it the same way the Dems did.    The right will need to compromise with what the moderates and libertarians want  - the Susan Collinses and the Rand Pauls.    The moderates will dictate the result and the right will have to bend.   Why?   Because it has to be a near-unanimous compromise, or nothing will get done and the failures of the ACA - compounded by the uncertainty - will be laid at the political doorstep of the GOP.

   

[INVAR]

Contrary to the folk tale,  the ACA is not a nefarious stalking horse for single payer,

That makes you either ridiculously ignorant of what the architects of ObamaCare said the intent for this Act was themselves, or you are an Apologist for it.

I'm going with the latter.

The temptation is irresistible if you deem health insurance to be a right -  if that's the case,  then spread its costs among the entire community, preferably in a progressive fashion. 

So you just outed yourself from under the "Conservative" sheep's cloth you put over yourself to hide your true Progressive self.  Only a Leftist would ever suggest spreading the costs among everyone and forcing us all to pay for something a few imbeciles decree to be a 'right'.

The ACA has its intellectual origins in 70s-era conservatism.   How to address the access issue through a private insurance marketplace without single payer  Require everyone to purchase insurance, and the pool will be large enough to sustain a market of guaranteed access insurance for all. 

Right out of the encyclopedia for Marxism 101.

You can stop pretending to be a Conservative Republican now.

You have laid yourself bare for all to see. 

[jmyrlefuller]

But the reality is that access to health insurance is very arbitrary in this country, and you can blame government policy for that.  It depends on whether you have a stable job with a stable employer.  And that causes inequities in, literally, matters of life and death, to be equally arbitrary.  Lots of hard working folks don't have health insurance.   

Indeed, and unless you live in the cities or suburbs, or work for the government, health insurance is very hard to come by. Heck, health CARE is very hard to come by, which makes insurance worthless anyway. Where I live the doctors are 25 miles away in any direction and the few dentists we have are so overbooked it's impossible to get in—and this is in a county of 80,000 people, not exactly the middle of nowhere. (Even when you can get into the dentist there's no real guarantee they'll actually do the work you need done, either.)

[Jazzhead]

    Got the fool to respond. 

[Bigun]

I strenuously object to the very idea of being forced to pay for the healthcare of those who engage in every form of  sexual perversion  known to man!

No  way will I be forced to do that.

[Jazzhead]

Indeed, and unless you live in the cities or suburbs, or work for the government, health insurance is very hard to come by. Heck, health CARE is very hard to come by, which makes insurance worthless anyway. Where I live the doctors are 25 miles away in any direction and the few dentists we have are so overbooked it's impossible to get in—and this is in a county of 80,000 people, not exactly the middle of nowhere. (Even when you can get into the dentist there's no real guarantee they'll actually do the work you need done, either.)

I've never had a good relationship with a dentist.   

[jmyrlefuller]

That makes you either ridiculously ignorant of what the architects of ObamaCare said the intent for this Act was themselves, or you are an Apologist for it.

One could argue—and I hold this belief—that the reason the ACA/Obamacare is such a debacle is because it was a botched attempt at compromise. Remember: Obamacare, as originally proposed, had a public option. THAT would have set the stage for a path to single-payer. The public option was stripped from the finished bill in a desperate attempt to get the majority of votes to pass it.

So, as of now, there isn't really a path forward to go from the ACA to a single-payer system. The gulf is just as wide now as it was before the bill was passed. The groundwork for it is not in place.

[Norm Lenhart]

Indeed, and unless you live in the cities or suburbs, or work for the government, health insurance is very hard to come by. Heck, health CARE is very hard to come by, which makes insurance worthless anyway. Where I live the doctors are 25 miles away in any direction and the few dentists we have are so overbooked it's impossible to get in—and this is in a county of 80,000 people, not exactly the middle of nowhere. (Even when you can get into the dentist there's no real guarantee they'll actually do the work you need done, either.)

A few years ago I had to get major dental work done as Chron's disease and healthy teeth are on opposite sides of the planet due to nutrient absorption). I could have spent about 10K up here at dentists getting my mouth fixed.

I ended up going to Mexico and taking my life into my hands with oral surgery. Obamacare would not have meant squat one way or another regardless. Fortunately I got the work done and done WELL in a clean, if older equipped place, for just under $1K.

[jmyrlefuller]

I've never had a good relationship with a dentist.

There is one VERY good one. But like I said, he's overbooked and it's hard to get in to see him.

The other one was just a waste of my time.

[Norm Lenhart]

   Got the fool to respond.

A fool didn't respond. A fool posted more increasingly pro leftist nonsense. Invar merely corrected the fool's Democrat talking points.

[Bigun]

One could argue—and I hold this belief—that the reason the ACA/Obamacare is such a debacle is because it was a botched attempt at compromise. Remember: Obamacare, as originally proposed, had a public option. THAT would have set the stage for a path to single-payer. The public option was stripped from the finished bill in a desperate attempt to get the majority of votes to pass it.

So, as of now, there isn't really a path forward to go from the ACA to a single-payer system. The gulf is just as wide now as it was before the bill was passed. The groundwork for it is not in place.

BS Jimmy. Obamacare itself is the groundwork for single payer and the only reason that isn't in our faces this very moment is the highly unexpected election of Trump.

[Jazzhead]

 

Got the other fool to respond

[Norm Lenhart]

BS Jimmy. Obamacare itself is the groundwork for single payer and the only reason that isn't in our faces this very moment is the highly unexpected election of Trump.

Incrementalism is how the left works. Enviro stuff/gay marriage/regulations...Americans will buy/accept anything if it's sold or forced on them a piece at a time.

"Well it's not THAT much different...besides, what can we do?"

And with that, the left wins victory after victory.

[Norm Lenhart]

Got the other fool to respond

Says the guy thats openly and loudly pro abortion, pro Islam and pro Obamacare on a conservative forum.

[Hoodat]

The sad truth is that Republicans don't want to repeal Obamacare.  Which is why they voted to fund it in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016.  And they will do so again in 2017.

One Republican candidate stood alone admitting that he liked the Obamacare mandates.  And that was the candidate who won the GOP nomination in 2016.

[truth_seeker]

Got the other fool to respond

I politely asked you to spell out the necessary fixes to Obamacare, upthread...but nothing yet.

Since you claim to have competence in this field, and since the GOP  are going to struggle, I sincerely would like your input.

[INVAR]

   Got the fool to respond.

This "FOOL" ALWAYS responds to Liberal Leftist bullshiite passing itself off as 'reasonable' among likeminded Conservatives.

So continue patting yourself on the back.  You make fine practice and you also illustrate yourself plainly for everyone else to see through the disguise you wear.

[Norm Lenhart]

I politely asked you to spell out the necessary fixes to Obamacare, upthread...but nothing yet.

Since you claim to have competence in this field, and since the GOP  are going to struggle, I sincerely would like your input.

People in hell sincerely want ice water. They will get refreshed before the DNC ambassador gives you a straight answer.

[Bigun]

Incrementalism is how the left works. Enviro stuff/gay marriage/regulations...Americans will buy/accept anything if it's sold or forced on them a piece at a time.

"Well it's not THAT much different...besides, what can we do?"

And with that, the left wins victory after victory.

It would be difficult to quantify the number of times I have witnessed that  exact thing over the course of my life.  You would think we would  eventually catch on and learn how to defend against the  play!

[Norm Lenhart]

This "FOOL" ALWAYS responds to Liberal Leftist bullshiite passing itself off as 'reasonable' among likeminded Conservatives.

So continue patting yourself on the back.  You make fine practice and you also illustrate yourself plainly for everyone else to see through the disguise you wear.

I think Jazzy Godiva has pretty much exposed himself openly up there on his high horse over the last few weeks. He's not remotely trying to hide it at this point.

[Norm Lenhart]

It would be difficult to quantify the number of times I have witnessed that  exact thing over the course of my life.  You would think we would  eventually catch on and learn how to defend against the  play!

Because everyone is a conservative until election day.

[Bigun]

Because everyone is a conservative until election day.

Yeah  I've noticed!

[Norm Lenhart]

Yeah  I've noticed!

Winning! No matter what!

Must be that tiger blood.

[Jazzhead]

I politely asked you to spell out the necessary fixes to Obamacare, upthread...but nothing yet.

Since you claim to have competence in this field, and since the GOP  are going to struggle, I sincerely would like your input.

Thanks for asking,  TS.  Try my post # 38 for a start.  Reform the exchanges to offer more choices. Let consumers make their own decisions about what and how much to insure.  Let individuals insure themselves the way businesses do - by tax deductible spending coupled with stop loss insurance.   Encourage doctors to offer special pricing for cash transactions.   Separate at least some of the chronically sick from the general insurance pool by forming risk pools funded with general tax revenues.  Incentivize employers to turn over their employees to the exchanges so they can inject the marketplace with dollars and healthy lives.    When I have time, I can expand further.  My dog's just reminded me it's time for his evening walk.   

[truth_seeker]

Thanks for asking,  TS.  Try my post # 38 for a start.  Reform the exchanges to offer more choices. Let consumers make their own decisions about what and how much to insure.  Let individuals insure themselves the way businesses do - by tax deductible spending coupled with stop loss insurance.   Encourage doctors to offer special pricing for cash transactions.   Separate at least some of the chronically sick from the general insurance pool by forming risk pools funded with general tax revenues.  Incentivize employers to turn over their employees to the exchanges so they can inject the marketplace with dollars and healthy lives.    When I have time, I can expand further.  My dog's just reminded me it's time for his evening walk.

Thanks. I am very disappointed the GOP is not ready, despite campaigning to end/replace Obamacare for years and years.