Author Topic: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case  (Read 2617 times)

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Offline TomSea

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New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« on: February 13, 2017, 05:53:49 am »
Quote
Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
By josh cornfield, associated press  Feb 13, 2017, 12:06 AM ET

FILE - In this Aug. 1, 2015, file photo, James Patterson discusses a two-day search that located his daughter Jenea Patterson, as he stands near the family's home in Wilkes-Barre, Pa. New Jersey Superior Court Judge Mitzy Galis-Menendez is scheduled to rule Monday, Feb. 13, 2017, on whether a police officer had probable cause to stop a truck at the Holland Tunnel in June 2016, that contained a cache of weapons, arresting three Pennsylvania residents who said they were on a rescue mission to save Jenea Patterson from a New York heroin den. But the story has already ended tragically for the teen: James Patterson said his daughter died of an apparent drug overdose. (James Halpin/The Citizens' Voice via AP, File)

 A New Jersey judge on Monday could decide the fates of three people who said they were on a rescue mission to help save a teenager from a New York heroin den when they were stopped with a cache of weapons outside of the Holland Tunnel last June.

John Cramsey, Dean Smith and Kimberly Arendt, all of Pennsylvania, have pleaded not guilty to weapons possession charges. They were stopped on their way to help a teen girl who had sent a message to Arendt, her former camp counselor, after a friend died of an overdose in a hotel room. They have pleaded not guilty to weapon possession charges.

Continued: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/judge-decide-evidence-tunnel-weapons-case-45450421


Defendants,  Cramsen, Smith and the woman, Kimberly Arendt.

So, if I'm correct, the 3 defendants were out to try to save Jenea Patterson (daughter of the man in the first picture) from the heroin den and Cramsey apparently lost his daughter previously, to a drug overdose. Neighbors helping neighbors.

But one might read the original story of when they were arrested, marijuana pipe in the car per:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/cops-arrest-3-people-loaded-handguns-holland-tunnel-article-1.2682095

One of these guys has a gun range and drove a bright colored van.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 06:32:23 am by TomSea »

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2017, 09:27:30 am »
The story mentions a cracked windshield and makes mention of a pipe and three prescription pills, but overwhelmingly spends column inches on the guns and loaded magazines and what was written on the mags.

The guns are the focus, and a highly conspicuous out of state vehicle with gun range ads would be like a candle flame for a moth as far as New Jersey police are concerned. New Jersey gun laws still suck, iirc, in no small part thanks to Chris Christie.

Any range owner should have found a way to be in compliance, and a more white bread vehicle might have been in order, too. A white van (classic construction company fare and fairly common) might have been a better idea--and less conspicuous.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline TomSea

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2017, 05:00:40 pm »
Governor Christie got into an argument in Iowa with someone who was trying to say he signed some gun legislation and Christie debated the guy back and said he didn't.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/26/politics/chris-christie-gun-rights/index.html

And here was the gun concealment act he signed:
http://www.guns.com/2015/12/23/christies-concealed-carry-plan-criticized-by-both-sides-in-gun-control-debate/

Offline Suppressed

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2017, 06:14:03 pm »
A white van (classic construction company fare and fairly common) might have been a better idea--and less conspicuous.

White vans are highly conspicuous on that corridor, being used for a number of activities, such as cigarette smuggling, etc.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2017, 09:14:57 pm »
Governor Christie got into an argument in Iowa with someone who was trying to say he signed some gun legislation and Christie debated the guy back and said he didn't.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/26/politics/chris-christie-gun-rights/index.html

And here was the gun concealment act he signed:
http://www.guns.com/2015/12/23/christies-concealed-carry-plan-criticized-by-both-sides-in-gun-control-debate/


Compare and contrast: New Jersey Gun Laws: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_Jersey

North Dakota Gun Laws: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_North_Dakota

http://gun.laws.com/state-gun-laws/north-dakota-gun-laws
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 09:17:21 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2017, 09:18:40 pm »
@Suppressed
Not like this:

Yeah, white vans are famous for hauling the beltway sniper thanks to Chief Moose although that old white guy in the white van turned out to be two black jihad types in a blue Oldsmobile.

Sorry, last time I was out that way, they were pretty much standard tradesman's vehicles (a little harder for folks to steal tools and supplies out of than a pickup). Out this way, they are common delivery and work vehicles (keeps the weather off) as are pickups.
Cigarette smugglers used to use semi trucks. Must be the result of the Obama Economy.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 09:20:32 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Rivergirl

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2017, 09:20:47 pm »
This is the craziest story.   That said, the person thy were determined to save, just lost her life to drugs.


Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2017, 09:28:42 pm »

Any range owner should have found a way to be in compliance, and a more white bread vehicle might have been in order, too. A white van (classic construction company fare and fairly common) might have been a better idea--and less conspicuous.

White vans scream trouble. A late model Camrey or Taurus would have been the right move.

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2017, 09:30:38 pm »

But one might read the original story of when they were arrested, marijuana pipe in the car per:



Pot Heads Against Heroin - Jersey Chapter

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2017, 09:37:52 pm »
This is the craziest story.   That said, the person thy were determined to save, just lost her life to drugs.
There are a lot of things here which bespeak poor planning.

The best operations are conducted in such a way as to be invisible. Their vehicle was highly conspicuous, with out of state plates.

They were in obvious noncompliance with New Jersey gun laws. Keep the hardware put away until such time as you need it.

A cracked windshield? Really? All the excuse the officer needed, though, just like a busted taillight. Keep your equipment fully functional and clear of anything that would give LEOs an excuse to pull you over. They're going fishing from there.  A multitude of drivers who were doing fine and a couple of blocks from home have  been found DUI (marginally, or having absorbed that last drink/beer during the traffic stop) because of a $2 light bulb.

While I really hope they get out of the firearm charges and the rest of it, good intentions are not enough. And yeah, drugs suck. I won't say what they have cost my family despite raising kids right, but it is substantial. I have walked into places I'd never go looking for an errant child, and its no fun. Thankfully, where I live it's still civilized enough I never had to shoot my way out of one (nor even produce a weapon to gain egress).
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2017, 09:40:41 pm »
White vans scream trouble. A late model Camrey or Taurus would have been the right move.
I'm trouble!! ooooH!

I have two. The local Florist has three. Halliburton has a whole fleet of them. They must be really bad news.
Just goes to show local differences.

That said, what blends in best. You want a vehicle the locals WON'T remember. Theirs wasn't it.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2017, 09:42:35 pm »
Pot Heads Against Heroin - Jersey Chapter
Medical Marijuana is legal in PA (where they came from). https://www.marijuanadoctors.com/medical-marijuana/PA/pennsylvania
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 09:43:14 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline TomSea

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2017, 02:47:53 am »

Compare and contrast: New Jersey Gun Laws: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_Jersey

North Dakota Gun Laws: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_North_Dakota

http://gun.laws.com/state-gun-laws/north-dakota-gun-laws

Thanks for the links, I can compare the laws of a state with 9 million people to a state with 756,000 people. I can' compare a state that is 90% or more white to a fairly diverse one.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 02:57:45 am by TomSea »

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2017, 03:25:50 am »
Thanks for the links, I can compare the laws of a state with 9 million people to a state with 756,000 people. I can' compare a state that is 90% or more white to a fairly diverse one.
Are you saying more people or different colors make a difference in the character of those people? If so, why don't you just come out and say so, Tom?

Do you think guns should be restricted just because someone lives some place where there are more people? Is it more dangerous there because it is harder to get a gun, or because there are more people? I don't get it.

Are you saying 'diversity' is the problem? My wife is Chippewa and I'm of European stock, does that mean I should lock her rifle away? Her handgun?

My point about firearms laws on the coasts is that they tend to be asininely restrictive.
 
I would assert that by virtue of the population here being well armed, this is one of the safest states in the union, and we have assimilated a significant number of people from elsewhere in the past few years, of fairly diverse backgrounds, even a few from New Jersey.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline rodamala

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2017, 12:00:33 am »
White vans are highly conspicuous on that corridor, being used for a number of activities, such as cigarette smuggling, etc.

@Suppressed

Cigarette smugglers are patriots as far as I am concerned.  When Pennsylvania raised the taxes [AGAIN]... and a carton of Luckies (that used to cost my old man $1) to NINETY-EIGHT F**KING DOLLARS  I took my business to the Seneca Nation.

Pennsylvania can kiss my ass with their fuel tax increase too.  I give the Injuns wampum and I get diesel fuel for 2/3 the price.  Seriously, diesel fuel tax in PA is 99.1 cents a gallon.  Makes the 40 mile trip cost effective... especially if I am getting smokes on the same trip... and planning on a Friday trip when they have all fuel 5 cents off.

</rant>

Offline Suppressed

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2017, 01:32:30 am »
@Suppressed

Cigarette smugglers are patriots as far as I am concerned.  When Pennsylvania raised the taxes [AGAIN]... and a carton of Luckies (that used to cost my old man $1) to NINETY-EIGHT F**KING DOLLARS  I took my business to the Seneca Nation.

Pennsylvania can kiss my ass with their fuel tax increase too.  I give the Injuns wampum and I get diesel fuel for 2/3 the price.  Seriously, diesel fuel tax in PA is 99.1 cents a gallon.  Makes the 40 mile trip cost effective... especially if I am getting smokes on the same trip... and planning on a Friday trip when they have all fuel 5 cents off.

</rant>

You do realize who those cigarette smugglers are, and where their revenue goes, don't you?

Funneled to terrorism...many, many millions of dollars.

Also to Chinese organized crime.

And, minor players...Mauritanians.

@rodamala
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“The most effectual means of being secure against pain is to retire within ourselves, and to suffice for our own happiness.” -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2017, 02:19:48 am »
@Suppressed

Cigarette smugglers are patriots as far as I am concerned.  When Pennsylvania raised the taxes [AGAIN]... and a carton of Luckies (that used to cost my old man $1) to NINETY-EIGHT F**KING DOLLARS  I took my business to the Seneca Nation.

Pennsylvania can kiss my ass with their fuel tax increase too.  I give the Injuns wampum and I get diesel fuel for 2/3 the price.  Seriously, diesel fuel tax in PA is 99.1 cents a gallon.  Makes the 40 mile trip cost effective... especially if I am getting smokes on the same trip... and planning on a Friday trip when they have all fuel 5 cents off.

</rant>
SOmething like this can really make the trip worthwhile...http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lund-80-Gal-Aluminum-Tank-and-Truck-Tool-Box-Combo-3290/100592774

I remember cigs for .32 a pack (tax included). When they hit 4 bucks here, I quit.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline rodamala

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2017, 03:09:10 am »
You do realize who those cigarette smugglers are, and where their revenue goes, don't you?

Funneled to terrorism...many, many millions of dollars.

Also to Chinese organized crime.

And, minor players...Mauritanians.

@rodamala

@Suppressed

Why not just cut to the chase and label me as the Terrorist?

I don't care.


Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2017, 03:14:01 am »
You do realize who those cigarette smugglers are, and where their revenue goes, don't you?

Funneled to terrorism...many, many millions of dollars.

Also to Chinese organized crime.

And, minor players...Mauritanians.

@rodamala
Just goes to show how globalism messes things up. It used to go to the Italians in New York...
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2017, 03:15:50 am »
@Suppressed

Why not just cut to the chase and label me as the Terrorist?

I don't care.
Only if the Seneca are backing the DAPL protests  :laugh:
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Suppressed

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2017, 04:00:18 am »
@Suppressed

Why not just cut to the chase and label me as the Terrorist?

I don't care.

@rodamala
Are you buying from the Muslim smugglers?!  From your description, it didn't seem like you were providing any revenue to them at all.
+++++++++
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“He's so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent.” --Foghorn Leghorn

Offline TomSea

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2017, 04:09:41 am »
Update: The judge is going to allow the evidence.

It's rough for the defendants. Perhaps the owner in the vehicle has it worse than the other two whom mainly appear to be passengers.  The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2017, 04:27:06 am »
Update: The judge is going to allow the evidence.

It's rough for the defendants. Perhaps the owner in the vehicle has it worse than the other two whom mainly appear to be passengers.  The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
The road to hell is lined with idiots who paved it.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2017, 04:54:33 am »
Just goes to show how globalism messes things up. It used to go to the Italians in New York...

 :laugh:
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“In the outside world, I'm a simple geologist. But in here .... I am Falcor, Defender of the Alliance” --Randy Marsh

“The most effectual means of being secure against pain is to retire within ourselves, and to suffice for our own happiness.” -- Thomas Jefferson

“He's so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent.” --Foghorn Leghorn

Offline Gefn

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Re: New Jersey: Judge to decide on evidence in tunnel weapons case
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2017, 02:49:40 pm »
Just goes to show how globalism messes things up. It used to go to the Italians in New York...

Now it goes to the Sopranos in NJ- (I forgot what real crime family they were modeled after, ) and Christie.

But there are some good people here from NJ. All is not lost. Some parts are really beautiful. I'm hoping we get a new decent governor and senator this year.....(no praying icon?)
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 02:50:54 pm by Freya »
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