Author Topic: Can you spot the error? Man defending home against burglars goes to jail...  (Read 3705 times)

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Offline LateForLunch

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Homeowner charged with manslaughter for shooting at home invasion suspects

Published January 31, 2017 
 
A Minnesota homeowner is facing manslaughter charges after he told police he shot at a group of men who had tried breaking into his home, and one of the suspects later died in the hospital.

David Allen Pettersen, 65, called police around 7 a.m. Saturday to report a possible burglary and shooting at his home in Fieldon Township, just south of Madelia. According to the charging documents, Pettersen told the dispatcher he fired his handgun at a gray car that was leaving his property after an attempted burglary.

A deputy responding to the call found the car 2 miles north of Pettersen's home, with three people inside. One of the passengers, 19-year-old Nicolas Thomas Embertson, had a gunshot wound and later died at Madelia Hospital.

Another passenger, 18-year-old Kyle Thomas Nason, had a broken ankle. He told police that he, Embertson and a third man -- 18-year-old Cornelius Ayers -- were at Pettersen's home to "case" it for a future burglary.

Nason said his friends gave him a boost onto the second-level deck of the home, and that he injured his ankle when making the 10-foot jump back down. He told police he heard two loud bangs as Embertson drove away from the home. As they were headed down the driveway, Embertson said, "I think I've been hit," before losing consciousness. Nason continued driving the car until they were stopped by the deputy responding to Petterson's 911 call.

Pettersen told investigators he was in bed when he heard someone trying to open a door to the deck. He saw the person jump from the deck and crawl toward a car, at which point he grabbed a .45 caliber handgun and tried to shoot the tires of the car. Pettersen said he was about 10 feet from the car when he fired two or three shots.

Pettersen was arrested and booked into the Watonwan County Jail. Monday morning, he was charged with second-degree manslaughter and reckless discharge of a firearm.

"The law does say a self-defense law, but what we've gathered so far, we feel we have enough to charge him with second-degree manslaughter," Watonwan County Chief Deputy Jeremy Nachreiner told KEYC-TV in Mankato. END ARTICLE

A prize will be given to the first poster to correctly identify what the homeowner did incorrectly that put him on the wrong side of the law.
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Online Bigun

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homeowner is facing manslaughter charges after he told police he shot at a group of men who had tried breaking into his home
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

geronl

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Was the car off his property at the time of the shooting?

Offline SZonian

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"...fired his handgun at a gray car that was leaving his property..."
Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.

Offline Lando Lincoln

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homeowner is facing manslaughter charges after he told police he shot at a group of men who had tried breaking into his home

Pettersen told the dispatcher he fired his handgun at a gray car that was leaving his property

The threat had ended.
There are some among us who live in rooms of experience we can never enter.
John Steinbeck

Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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He forgot to say, "It's coming right for us!"
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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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He also missed from 10 feet.  Had he hit the tires, the punks would have driven away on the rims and never turned him in as they'd have to admit to (attempted burglary?)

Oh, wait, he called the cops on himself.
My avatar shows the national debt in stacks of $100 bills.  If you look very closely under the crane you can see the Statue of Liberty.

Offline ABX

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The car was off his property and fleeing the scene. The risk of eminent danger that would justify self-defense and castle doctrine don't apply.

He crossed the line from self/property-defense to being a vigilante.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Will a jury convict him?

Offline Lando Lincoln

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Will a jury convict him?

This is Minnesota.  I wouldn't want to be on trial.
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Online 240B

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A 45 is going to make a big ass hole in anything it hits.
No wonder the guy died.


Hollywood has it all wrong. Getting shot in the shoulder will kill you. 'Just a flesh wound' will kill you.
Getting shot with a military 45 anywhere, and you are in serious trouble.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
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This is Minnesota.  I wouldn't want to be on trial.
GFT.

They are going to hang this guy.

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GFT.

They are going to hang this guy.


I understand what he did and I understand why he did it. I can easily see myself doing the same thing.
But still, his life as it was, is now changed forever.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists

Offline andy58-in-nh

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Never discharge your weapon when the threat has ended and especially when it exceeds the bounds of your property. Reckless.
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Offline Frank Cannon

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Pettersen told the dispatcher he fired his handgun at a gray car that was leaving his property

The threat had ended.

What if they were going for guns? In some states this would be a legal kill.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Never discharge your weapon when the threat has ended and especially when it exceeds the bounds of your property. Reckless.
Precisely. No imminent threat, fleeing suspects, bad shot (if he was aiming for tires), in a Liberal state.

Bad juju all around.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
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Offline Smokin Joe

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What if they were going for guns? In some states this would be a legal kill.
They'd have to have guns on their person/in the car. If they are out burgling together, chances there's someone there with priors, and maybe a felon. If they had a gun with them, that could backfire on the would-be thieves, with serious prosecutorial discretion.

But the guy is in Minnesota, not known for being a bastion of Castle Doctrine, but a state with far more liberal leanings. Basically, short of an imminent threat, the guy screwed the pooch banging away at fleeing suspects.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Victoria33

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@Offline LateForLunch

Shoot them on your property and you get a medal in Texas.

Offline Frank Cannon

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They'd have to have guns on their person/in the car. If they are out burgling together, chances there's someone there with priors, and maybe a felon. If they had a gun with them, that could backfire on the would-be thieves, with serious prosecutorial discretion.

But the guy is in Minnesota, not known for being a bastion of Castle Doctrine, but a state with far more liberal leanings. Basically, short of an imminent threat, the guy screwed the pooch banging away at fleeing suspects.

This guys problem is he didn't knock down all three and plant a weapon on one of them.

Offline Smokin Joe

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This guys problem is he didn't knock down all three and plant a weapon on one of them.
:nometalk:... but you have a point.

Still, a good throwdown piece isn't as easy to come by as it used to be...
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Lando Lincoln

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GFT.

They are going to hang this guy.

GFT?
There are some among us who live in rooms of experience we can never enter.
John Steinbeck

Offline Frank Cannon

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Go Forth Tony.

 22222frying pan

I deserved that! 

QFT

FIAT

geronl

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His error is living in a liberal state?

Wingnut

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His error is living in a liberal state?

He is 65.  Where The F is he going to go?  Maybe he could live in your basement?   

Offline Frank Cannon

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He is 65.  Where The F is he going to go?  Maybe he could live in your basement?

His mom wouldn't like him taking in a roomy until he clears out some of those comic books.

Wingnut

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His mom wouldn't like him taking in a roomy until he clears out some of those comic books.

She should slap his ass.

geronl

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He is 65.  Where The F is he going to go?  Maybe he could live in your basement?

just a crawl space but the squirrels are vicious competition for resources

Offline Lando Lincoln

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His error is living in a liberal state?

That may be but Minnesota is an extraordinarily wonderful state in many ways.
There are some among us who live in rooms of experience we can never enter.
John Steinbeck

Oceander

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Wrong time frame.  You can't claim self-defense when the threat you're defending against is in the process of leaving your property.

Offline LateForLunch

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Re: Can you spot the error? Man defending home against burglars goes to jail...
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2017, 09:41:00 am »
Wrong time frame.  You can't claim self-defense when the threat you're defending against is in the process of leaving your property.

Too damn many correct answers. I'm gonna run out of Tootsie Rolls. VERY gratifying to see how many informed, knowledgeable people there are on this Forum. Reassuring.

Laws vary from state to state but the basic idea that underlies "self defense" is that there has to be some perceived immediate threat. If that guy had spent more time reading Conservative Forums or Gun Rights Forums where people talk about this stuff, he would have known better. He did just about everything wrong from the first shot to the call to the cops to what he said to them when they showed up to do the investigation. Dunce cap should be sewn to his head.

The good news is that because he's a senior citizen the DA will probably try to give him probation with a very small amount of jail time. The bad news is that there will be a significant fine, he'll probably have to plead guilty to a felony and lose his guns permanently. Worst of all, he will probably be sued by the lowlifes and may have to pay them a lot of money in a civil judgment. His retirement will be less comfortable financially unless he is a wealthy man but he likely won't die in prison. Guns aren't toys.

Basic rule as I understand it from talking to LEOs , is that if you ever shoot someone, you SAY you saw a gun pointed at you even if you didn't unless you WANT to be arrested. It doesn't matter if they had one or not, you still SAY that a gun was pointed at you and that is why you shot them. You DON'T say, "I thought I saw a gun," because most of the time when someone believes they saw a gun, they don't answer a question like, "Why did you shoot them?" with the qualifier "I thought..." they say emphatically that they saw a gun. That's because in human behavior, the perception is the reality. To the observer who shoots a person because they believe he has a gun, in the shooter's PERCEPTION, HE HAD A GUN. They would subsequently be the most surprised, (yea skeptical) person on the planet when they learn that the cops found no gun. In his mind, THEY HAD A GUN AND IT WAS POINTED AT ME.

The point of perception works in the shooters favor, because the law generally makes no distinction whether a person merely believed there was a gun or there was in fact one in reality. All that a person needs to have to be legally entitled to shoot someone is the BELIEF that their life was in immediate danger.

Granted, the DA will try like Hell to prove that the principle is a lying sack of sh*t and only saying that there was a gun to get acquitted, but the DA doesn't vote on the jury. All that one needs to do is give a convincing performance to a jury that they BELIEVED WITH ALL THEIR HEART THAT THEY WERE GOING TO DIE IF THEY DIDN'T SHOOT THE BASTARD, to have a chance at acquittal.

Of course, the smarter thing to do would have been to let them drive away since they really weren't a threat and the owner of the property was no lighter in his possessions. He got his feelings hurt but so what? Now he's screwed.

Owning a gun is not enough for anyone who plans to use it. One must study and KNOW the laws about using it in your own state and take some training with an experienced professional in close-combat strategery (sic).

My own instructor called every shot I had off target in my novice stage a "lawsuit". I learned not to pull the trigger until I was damn sure I was going to hit what I was aiming at. We reviewed the applicable laws and ran through the basic scenarios that applied to any circumstance I was likely to encounter. I was blessed because he did this for free as my friend, but it was worth its weight in gold as advice and well worth paying for because now if I ever have to shoot someone, I know that there is a fairly good chance I won't go to jail for it.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 09:47:12 am by LateForLunch »
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