Author Topic: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today  (Read 63640 times)

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #350 on: January 25, 2017, 08:34:48 am »
Tyranny?  Since when is the defense of individual liberty "tyranny"?

Yes or no.  Should the citizens of the State of Georgia have the right to shape their society by establishing their own regulations concerning abortion, health care, etc., within the confines of the Constitution?
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #351 on: January 25, 2017, 08:36:32 am »
Well, when you demand that the state ban abortion and force a woman to give birth,  then how are you not "imposing your morality" on her?    Why can't you acknowledge her liberty and persuade her not to abort?   

Again...no one forced that women to have unprotected sex.  You are completely taking away her responsibility for getting pregnant in the first place.  You act like the woman goes to bed one night and magically wakes up pregnant the next morning via osmosis.


No one is forcing the state to ban abortion.  Your argument is dishonest from the get go. 

The states should decide whether they want it to be legal within their borders or not. The Federal government is the ones forcing states to provide a service whether they want to or not.

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The big lie being told here is that I am an advocate for abortion.   I am horrified by it.

Then stop defending it and justifying it.  For someone that claims to be horrified by it...you're doing a great job ayt being a poster boy for Planned Parenthood.   

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But I also know men knock up women and leave them with no options all the time.

And what about the women that purposely get knocked up?  What about the sperm donor in that situation who had no intention of having kids in the first place?

Or the woman that goes and retrieves sperm out of the condom in order to get pregnant for a big payday?

Again why in the hell are you taking all of the responsibility a woman has in these situations away from them and placing it completely on the man? 


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Pro-lifers should help such women,

They do...all the time.  And they are mocked by the PP types.


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not condemn them with pornographic mockery for "spreading their legs".   

So in your rainbow colored world...a woman is never responsible for anything she does?  That must be the case because in every post you've made on this topic you never once put any of the burden of responsibility on the woman...only the man.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #352 on: January 25, 2017, 08:44:06 am »
Yes or no.  Should the citizens of the State of Georgia have the right to shape their society by establishing their own regulations concerning abortion, health care, etc., within the confines of the Constitution?

Of course - and the key qualifier is "within the confines of the Constitution".   Like it or not, the abortion right is guaranteed by the Constitution.   There isn't a woman of child-bearing age alive today for whom it hasn't always been so.   

I know what your predictable response will be.   But consider this -  the pro-life movement is wasting its time trying to change the Constitution.  Hundreds of thousands of women marched in Washington the other day - and what unites them is a determination not to let religious zealots take their rights away.   The abortion issue has been the place where conservative political ambitions go to die.   The abortion issue is why this country is a house divided. 

The pro-life cause is a noble one, but it is myopic.   Fighting the abortion war hasn't save lives - it has accomplished nothing except pit us against each other.   Persuasion is the ticket to saving lives,  the only one that makes practical sense.   
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #353 on: January 25, 2017, 08:45:55 am »
Of course - and the key qualifier is "within the confines of the Constitution".   Like it or not, the abortion right is guaranteed by the Constitution.   There isn't a woman of child-bearing age alive today for whom it hasn't always been so.

What portion of the Constitution protects the mythical "right" to abortion? 

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I know what your predictable response will be.   But consider this -  the pro-life movement is wasting its time trying to change the Constitution.  Hundreds of thousands of women marched in Washington the other day - and what unites them is a determination not to let religious zealots take their rights away.   The abortion issue has been the place where conservative political ambitions go to die.   The abortion issue is why this country is a house divided. 

The pro-life cause is a noble one, but it is myopic.   Fighting the abortion war hasn't save lives - it has accomplished nothing except pit us against each other.   Persuasion is the ticket to saving lives,  the only one that makes practical sense.   

And you wonder why you're called a Liberal here.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #354 on: January 25, 2017, 08:51:28 am »
Of course - and the key qualifier is "within the confines of the Constitution".   Like it or not, the abortion right is guaranteed by the Constitution.


No, it is not.  There is nothing in the Constitution that says that.  Even Roe admits that.
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Offline EC

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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #355 on: January 25, 2017, 08:52:48 am »

No, it is not.  There is nothing in the Constitution that says that.  Even Roe admits that.

Anything in the Constitution that bans it?
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #356 on: January 25, 2017, 08:56:20 am »
Anything in the Constitution that bans it?

Until Roe it was up to each individual state to decide if it was legal within their borders or not...per the powers given to them in the 9th and 10th Amendments.

The people that want Roe overturned....inculcation the woman who's name became synonymous with the case...believe it should be up to each state to decide if it's legal within their borders or not.

PP and the abortion defenders like Jazz have created this myth that getting Roe overturned would ban abortion everywhere...and that's just not the case.
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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #357 on: January 25, 2017, 09:03:41 am »
Anything in the Constitution that bans it?

Nothing in the Constitution bans murder either. 
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #358 on: January 25, 2017, 09:05:26 am »
The reality of Roe:

Quote
The Court’s ruling actually violated the Constitution on several grounds. The majority opinion expressed by Justice Harry Blackmun reasoned that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment protected a woman’s “liberty,” which included a “right of privacy … broad enough to encompass” her right to have an abortion.


Yet, the Court illegally excluded a particular class of people (the unborn) from the Due Process Clause’s protection. It effectually created “a constitutional right of some human beings to kill other human beings,” attests University of St. Thomas law professor Michael Stokes Paulsen.

Likewise, University of Pennsylvania law professor Kermit Roosevelt (who supports legalized abortion) points out: “As a constitutional argument Roe is barely coherent. The Court pulled its fundamental right to choose more or less from the constitutional ether.”

In his dissenting opinion, Justice William Rehnquist wrote, “To reach its result the Court necessarily has had to find within the scope of the Fourteenth Amendment a right that was apparently completely unknown to the drafters of the Amendment.”

The Court’s ruling violated the Constitution’s most fundamental principle: human equality and the protection of one’s right to live. The Constitution requires that every human life be protected, regardless of age, size, stage of development, or dependency on another human being.

The Court also ignored legal jurisprudence and historical context regarding the Fourteenth Amendment. State laws prohibited abortion prior to the Fourteenth Amendment’s adoption in 1868—contrary to Blackmun’s demonstrably false claims.

Constitutional scholar and Yale law professor John Hart Ely wrote:

What is frightening about Roe is that this super-protected right is not inferable from the language of the Constitution, the framers’ thinking respecting the specific problem in issue, any general value derivable from the provisions they included, or the nation’s governmental structure… It is bad because it is bad constitutional law, or rather because it is not constitutional law and gives almost no sense of an obligation to try to be.


The Court also created another precedent by striking down state laws as illegal which had existed in all 50 states for roughly 100 years. These state laws were enacted democratically — decided by voters either through ballot initiatives or elected state legislatures. The Court overruled the rightful authority of the people in each of these states—and the other two branches of government did nothing in response.

Against the will of the people, and in defiance of the Constitution, the Court created policy not based on the Constitution.


http://www.westernjournalism.com/scholars-argue-roe-v-wade-is-actually-unconstitutional/



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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #359 on: January 25, 2017, 09:12:10 am »
Of course - and the key qualifier is "within the confines of the Constitution".   Like it or not, the abortion right is guaranteed by the Constitution.   


That's an interesting approach to interpretation of the Constitution you take.  "Abortion is guaranteed" because a Supreme court found Umbras and Penumbras to discover the "right" never seen in the nearly two centuries before, yet a clearly worded Amendment containing the words "shall not be infringed" is open to interpretation by the several states to keep the gun-toting yahoos from waltzing around with rifles.

Your view of the Constitution is exactly 180 degrees out of whack, and I have to chuckle every time I see you reference a need to adhere to it.
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Offline EC

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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #360 on: January 25, 2017, 09:18:41 am »
Nothing in the Constitution bans murder either.

Probably a good job on that, since the death penalty is rather useful.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #361 on: January 25, 2017, 09:21:16 am »
Probably a good job on that, since the death penalty is rather useful.

The ironic thing about that...and I noted this earlier in the thread...is that the same Supreme Court Justice that made up the mythical "right" to abortion...also wrote the majority opinion striking down the death penalty in the 70's as cruel and unusual punishment.
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Offline EC

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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #362 on: January 25, 2017, 09:24:18 am »
I blame the Beatles.
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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #363 on: January 25, 2017, 09:25:01 am »
Probably a good job on that, since the death penalty is rather useful.

It can be.  It's interesting to note the SCOTUS that threw out all the state laws restricting abortion was the same SCOTUS that threw out all state laws concerning the death penalty.  Charlie Manson and family are alive today because of that ruling.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #364 on: January 25, 2017, 09:26:19 am »
 

And you wonder why you're called a Liberal here.

I can't control what false labels are placed on me.  What I care about is saving lives and reducing the number of abortions.  Persuasion can and will do that.  Education can and will do that.  Support for adoption can and will do that.

Coercion by the government?  Sorry, that's unconstitutional and un-American.  Women are no longer chattel, as much as you'd like it to be so. 
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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #365 on: January 25, 2017, 09:26:28 am »
The ironic thing about that...and I noted this earlier in the thread...is that the same Supreme Court Justice that made up the mythical "right" to abortion...also wrote the majority opinion striking down the death penalty in the 70's as cruel and unusual punishment.

Dammit, you beat me by about four minutes....
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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #366 on: January 25, 2017, 09:29:06 am »
I can't control what false labels are placed on me.  What I care about is saving lives and reducing the number of abortions.  Persuasion can and will do that.  Education can and will do that.  Support for adoption can and will do that.

Coercion by the government?  Sorry, that's unconstitutional and un-American.  Women are no longer chattel, as much as you'd like it to be so.

Try that with the IRS.  Refuse to pay your taxes, then insist the government use persuasion rather than coercion to get you to pay up.

You don't like being called "liberal?"  OK by me.  You're a leftist.  Better?
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #367 on: January 25, 2017, 09:38:23 am »
I can't control what false labels are placed on me.  What I care about is saving lives and reducing the number of abortions. 

No, you don't.  What you care about is imposing your version of tyranny on the rest of us.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #368 on: January 25, 2017, 09:41:24 am »
I blame the Beatles.

Nah...clearly it was Yoko's fault.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #369 on: January 25, 2017, 09:43:42 am »
@txradioguy

Another irony of Roe is that the majority of black-robed tyrants ruled that abortion was an inalienable right as long as it occurred before the baby was 24 weeks old, but once the baby hit its 24-week conception day, the woman's abortion right suddenly is not inalienable after all.

Like I have stated since Day One, Roe is a horrendous legal decision.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #370 on: January 25, 2017, 09:43:55 am »
No, you don't.  What you care about is imposing your version of tyranny on the rest of us.

Nope.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 10:59:06 am by MOD3 »
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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #371 on: January 25, 2017, 09:48:37 am »
@txradioguy

Another irony of Roe is that the majority of black-robed tyrants ruled that abortion was an inalienable right as long as it occurred before the baby was 24 weeks old, but once the baby hit its 24-week conception day, the woman's abortion right suddenly is not inalienable after all.

Like I have stated since Day One, Roe is a horrendous legal decision.

Associating that atrocity with the word "legal" is itself an atrocity!
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #372 on: January 25, 2017, 09:59:42 am »


Nice.  So since you can't find any written legal basis for denying states the right to self-determination within the confines of the Constitution, you simply lie about it.  And since you are not willing to back off of your insistence that 'abortion must remain legal' without any legal basis for it (aka 'tyranny'), you resort to ad hominem.

« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 11:01:26 am by MOD3 »
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #373 on: January 25, 2017, 10:03:18 am »
@Jazzhead

Here again is the question you are afraid to answer honestly.

Yes or no.  Should the citizens of the State of Georgia have the right to shape their society by establishing their own regulations concerning abortion, health care, etc., within the confines of the Constitution?

So far, you have been unable to cite anything in the Constitution that would restrict a state's right to do this.  So stop being such a coward and answer the question.  If you are going to support tyranny, at least show honesty and courage.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today
« Reply #374 on: January 25, 2017, 10:23:51 am »
A key source of the vituperation on this thread is an inability or unwillingness to distinguish between legal standards and moral standards.   

@Jazzhead

Women and other "Sensitive creatures" claim they want equal rights. If THEY have the legal right to abort a healthy fetus that poses no immediate physical threat to her,then THEY must ALSO recognize both the legal and the moral right of the man that helped create that fetus. If the male wants the child and the female doesn't,the old term "tough titty" comes into play. She is an adult and it was her responsibility to make the decision to not have sex with that man,or to have herself sterilized prior to having sex with him.

Of course,this is a two-way street. If the man doesn't want to have that child,it was HIS obligation,and no one else's,to have a vasectomy prior to having sex with her or any other female.  Once again,the old "tough titty" law comes into play. He was an adult and he damn sure needs to be held responsible for his actions. Including the financial responsibilities to help pay for the medical care and the raising of the resulting child. If you ain't willing to accept your responsibility,get trimmed or keep it in your pants.

NO female human gets pregnant by herself except in cases of rape,so NO female human gets to decide what happens as a result of any non-rape sexual joining.

Finally,IMHO,there is an explicit implied contract between two adults having consensual sex to be responsible for any child that may result from that act. It does NOT mean they are required to marry and raise the child,or to even raise the child. There are plenty of couples and even single adults out there more than willing to adopt an infant,so neither the mother nor the father gets to whine about the "unfair burden of raising a child". You are both responsible for that child until it is born,and after that you can put it up for adoption,and go back to living your normal lives,hopefully having learned a lesson.

For those cases where the male and/or female are both sexually mature but still legally minors,once again the "tough titty" law applies. The only difference is the parents of both of those minors are financially responsible for the actions of their minor children,just like they are responsible for the financial obligations that occur if their children were to vandalize cars or neighbors houses. Anybody that ever promised you that life was always going to be easy and pleasant lied to you. Man/Woman up and accept your damn responsibilities!

And finally,for the religious loons,God did not create that baby,but if you really believe he did,then God should pay all the medical expenses related to bringing it to birth and raising it to become an adult. If  you don't agree with this,STFU about things like the "morning after pill". Up to the point a fetus can survive outside the womb by breathing for itself and eating/drinking milk,it's not a child.It is a fetus and a POTENTIAL child. Of course,once that status is reached,there should be no abortions at all for any reason except in cases where the life of the mother is at actual risk if she carries to term,NOT "potential risk" or "emotional risk". You bought the ticket,you take the damn ride!

If this pleases those who read it,good! If it doesn't,I don't really give a rabid rats ass. Complain to someone else.
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